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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

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    Neutrality
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Neutrality on Tue Jun 02, 2015 7:25 pm

    I don't want to touch the MH17 issue. The more people speculate on the tragedy, the more they pollute their minds. We just have to be patient until the report gets published.

    Khepesh
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Khepesh on Tue Jun 02, 2015 7:46 pm

    Almost un-noticed on 26 February the Baltic Fleet landing ship "Kaliningrad" passed thro the Bosporus into the Black Sea. It is still there, and no matter why it is there, normal excercise, trolling, it is there...

    whir
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  whir on Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:09 pm

    Khepesh wrote:About MH17. I assume everybody has seen this report from the manufacturers, Almaz-Antey, that if MH17 was shot down by BUK, then it could only be by BUK-M1 that Russian does not have. http://rt.com/news/264205-buk-manufacturer-mh17-ukraine/
    Also, many posters here from mp net, so you remember the posts by MSD about the ukrops BUK battery soldier posting location updates on VK as his unit moved from Kharkov to somewhere SE of Ilovaisk by 16 July? Also that the photo of the alleged captured ukrops BUK at metallist was two years old and that not a single photo of this BUK has ever been shown, and why? because it was a wreck and VSN simply wanted ukrops to think they had a working BUK, but that plan has backfired..... Yet even so, nobody seems to remember that even Avakov had publicly stated that the unit at metallist had evacuated before the base was captured and that one unserviceable BUK had been left behind, wrecked.
    Rebels stated that the captured unit from some storage depot was inoperative since it had been stripped of circuitry long ago, presumably to be sold as scrap metal, so they made a plea to find replacement parts. Initially Avakov said that it was a fully working battery what rebels had captured just to deny it the next day saying that rebels only had put their hand on an empty carcass that had been cunningly sabotaged by UAF prior to being abandoned to avoid it being used for terrorist attacks.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  gregoire on Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:14 pm

    whir wrote:
    Khepesh wrote:About MH17. I assume everybody has seen this report from the manufacturers, Almaz-Antey, that if MH17 was shot down by BUK, then it could only be by BUK-M1 that Russian does not have. http://rt.com/news/264205-buk-manufacturer-mh17-ukraine/
    Also, many posters here from mp net, so you remember the posts by MSD about the ukrops BUK battery soldier posting location updates on VK as his unit moved from Kharkov to somewhere SE of Ilovaisk by 16 July? Also that the photo of the alleged captured ukrops BUK at metallist was two years old and that not a single photo of this BUK has ever been shown, and why? because it was a wreck and VSN simply wanted ukrops to think they had a working BUK, but that plan has backfired..... Yet even so, nobody seems to remember that even Avakov had publicly stated that the unit at metallist had evacuated before the base was captured and that one unserviceable BUK had been left behind, wrecked.
    Rebels stated that the captured unit from some storage depot was inoperative since it had been stripped of circuitry long ago, presumably to be sold as scrap metal, so they made a plea to find replacement parts. Initially Avakov said that it was a fully working battery what rebels had captured just to deny it the next day saying that rebels only had put their hand on an empty carcass that had been cunningly sabotaged by UAF prior to being abandoned to avoid it being used for terrorist attacks.

    You have to admit, this is funny how they managed to shoot themselves in the foot.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Werewolf on Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:32 pm

    Kiew Flight Control Tower redirects MH-17 several times further south right above a war zone

    US,Kiew and the rest of Nato terrorists jump right after it was shot down that is must be Putin himself, without any investigation, not more than 6 hours have past

    Fake Video was uploaded one day before the shot down where several different past recordings between DNR members about other downings of jets have been edited into one faked conversation to portray it like this is something new.

    The US 24 hours after the shot down started already bregging about having hard evidence with faked pictures of an ukrainian BUK in "eastern ukraine" later it was proven by RF that this BUK is Ukrainian with location where exactly it was at the time when those pictures were taken, which were claimed to be "Donetzk", but it was in an ukrianian city controlled by Nazis the whole time.

    US and Kiew reported garbage that Investigators were kept away from the crashside by Novorussian soldiers, while those investigators were held tight at Kiew so they had no chance arriving in eastern ukraine because it was Kiew nazis who held them away.

    Twisting videos of DNR fighters that paid respect to the dead children on that flight, were portrayed in all western controlled Propaganda channels with very selective pictures and headlines like "Putin's Terrorists are mocking dead children" and other garbage.

    US continues to spit bullshit about having Evidence that Putin has shot it down. The fact that US and Ukrain have been fixed on that it was shot down by a BUK and nothing else already shows that they know how it was shot down, the fact that Ukrops have dozens of them operating in eastern ukraine despite Novorussia has no airforce.

    Bullet holes 30mm wide were found on cockpit and left wing with fuselage body penetrations that are coming out from the inside, meaning it was beyond doubt that those rounds were 3UOF8 HE-Frag rounds because they are designed to be Anti-Aircraft rouds. They have a 0.025 sec contact delay so they can rip apart electronics inside the fuselage to enhance the damage.


    Quite long time and very quite it is after the Malaysian idiots have handed over the Flight recorder to the already shithole Britian so they can make an "analysis" no information has been presented, guess why... They have evidence right in their hands but they don't show it because it does not reflect their shit story.

    Conclusion it was Putin and his BUK that killed 300 people.

    We have hard facts and indications and all are pointing in only one single direction it is US and its proxy nazi Kiew.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Vann7 on Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:57 pm

    US navy provocations against Russia..

    http://rt.com/news/264157-us-destroyer-russian-jet/





    It is clear that the more closer ,the date for expiring the sanctions against Russia..
    the more desperate the americans are..in provocations near Russia territory.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:11 pm

    Back in MP.net days I firmly believed that MH-17 was mistaken for UAF transport and shot down by rebels, simple case collateral damage (don't like that expression but it applies here).

    But it has been more than 6 months since we last heard any real news about that tragedy. All this time and not a peep from investigators. There were quite a few suspicious things since then, one being the fact that Kiev has been given the veto over publicizing investigation results.

    And now crash report date is rapidly approaching and still not a word from anyone. You would expect media avalanche in the run-up to publication, but still nothing.

    Right now I am honestly starting to believe that MH-17 have been shot down by Kiev, quite likely on purpose (false flag). Remember, that airliner has been redirected from Crimea air-corridor into Donbass, straight into warzone over exact spot where several aircrafts have been shot down already.

    And now of all days we have all this talk of Transdnistria...


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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  max steel on Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:19 pm

    Now, somebody is going to apologise?

    Russian Missile Maker: MH17 Shot Down by Ukrainian Missile


    http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2015/06/02/world/europe/ap-eu-russia-mh17.html?_r=1

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Vann7 on Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:34 pm



    Russia government have drawn its lines already.. Crimea and Transnistria..



    12)The Deputy of the state Duma of the Russian Federation: We will join the war when they will attack the peacekeepers in Transnistria

    In case of attack by Russia will be forced to protect its citizens in Transnistria

    “The military conflict in Transnistria was already planned long ago and can really be implemented. There are more than 160 thousand of our citizens, our peacekeepers there, there is our international obligations. If there will be an attack on Russian peacekeepers, Russia will enter the war”.


    http://thesaker.is/ukraine-sitrep-june-2d-by-raskolnikova/

    SO all Americans need to do know is get Moldova and Ukraine to attack Russian UN peacemakers.. What is different now ? from not helping eastern ukraine directly
    and for helping directly with its armed forces transnistria? That in Moldova , Russian
    legitimate forces by supported by United Nations will be attacked.

    So the "Russian Aggression" propaganda will be hard to pull in the west.. if UN peace forces are attacked. This is similar to the UN peace forces attacked in Abkhazia-Georgia.. that provoked Russian Army to invade.

    From the point of view of propaganda will not work for the west.. but because the US real
    aim is Russia economy.. they can still go ahead with it.. If Ukraine attack Transnistria Russia can create a new front in Kharkiv and provide weapons there to government opposition.








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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  auslander on Tue Jun 02, 2015 10:29 pm

    Generally they turn off the burners around beddy bye time, 21:00 or so. Not tonight.

    Ivan the Colorado
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Ivan the Colorado on Tue Jun 02, 2015 10:32 pm

    gregoire wrote:
    whir wrote:
    Khepesh wrote:About MH17. I assume everybody has seen this report from the manufacturers, Almaz-Antey, that if MH17 was shot down by BUK, then it could only be by BUK-M1 that Russian does not have. http://rt.com/news/264205-buk-manufacturer-mh17-ukraine/
    Also, many posters here from mp net, so you remember the posts by MSD about the ukrops BUK battery soldier posting location updates on VK as his unit moved from Kharkov to somewhere SE of Ilovaisk by 16 July? Also that the photo of the alleged captured ukrops BUK at metallist was two years old and that not a single photo of this BUK has ever been shown, and why? because it was a wreck and VSN simply wanted ukrops to think they had a working BUK, but that plan has backfired..... Yet even so, nobody seems to remember that even Avakov had publicly stated that the unit at metallist had evacuated before the base was captured and that one unserviceable BUK had been left behind, wrecked.
    Rebels stated that the captured unit from some storage depot was inoperative since it had been stripped of circuitry long ago, presumably to be sold as scrap metal, so they made a plea to find replacement parts. Initially Avakov said that it was a fully working battery what rebels had captured just to deny it the next day saying that rebels only had put their hand on an empty carcass that had been cunningly sabotaged by UAF prior to being abandoned to avoid it being used for terrorist attacks.

    You have to admit, this is funny how they managed to shoot themselves in the foot.
    I honestly find it sad if anything, because nobody held them accountable for Avakov's words.

    auslander wrote:
    Neutrality wrote:I say let them do it so their own sympathizers can see the true intentions of this regime. Except this time Moscow will bomb them into oblivion if they see any sign or attempt at invading Transnistria and debate about who was right and wrong later.

    Well, at this time things are still quite active here abouts. I for one hope cooler heads prevail in Orcland but methinks my hopes are misplaced. If they do get stupud it's war.
    Since you are closer to the action than probably anyone else, has there been any concern over the developments in the Odessa oblast?

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Vann7 on Tue Jun 02, 2015 10:42 pm

    i Consider stupid beyond proportions , that the CEO of The CEO Almaz-Antey, Yan Novikov
    is trying to revive the Buks controversy ,without consulting with Russia government own investigation on site..  Almaz antey did not have access to the crash zone .. Russia Government
    and journalist did..  So claiming it was an Ukraine Buk is completely retarded and over simplification that will only create problems for Russia credibility of their Radars images..
    This are the times when having a Staling style President will be more proper and shot the
    bastards who create controversy and question about the Russian Government investigation.


    Russia investigation never said how it was done..

    it only released FACTs of radar and satellite images of the incident..
    That shows Combat planes near the Malasyan plane and shows Buks missiles near the zone too.. thats all Russia released..

    The on site crash investigation shows Gun Fire of 30mm cannon.. which support Russia
    satellite images of Combat planes chasing the Malasyan planes..  It however does not
    necessarily completely tells all that there is to know of how it was done..  This is were
    the combined attack of Missile and Cannon gun fire comes into play..


    Yet the damage is done and Asma Antey.. he naively believed that Europe does not knows
    that Ukraine did it..  and that the Russian sanctions are made under pressure of US ,to isolate
    Russia economy and have nothing to do with what really happens in Ukraine or who dies there .
    As if lifting Russian Sanctions will help in anyway the sales of BUKs..  Rolling Eyes


    I see the timing of this report very suspicious or at least incredibly stupid..and not needed
    when the west was looking for ways how to whiteWash Ukraine participation on it.

    This is the reason why whenever anyone is accused of a crime.. its lawyers do not allow
    its defendants to talk.. why?> because whatever thing they say could be used /twisted against them..  So we have now Stupid CEO of Asma Antey releasing more information than instead
    of helping Russia position can counter it..  at least in the minds of general public opinion..

    Because Russian media have been saying that buks * in their opinion* could not have done it..
    based on the information available ,but  now Asma says wait it was a Buk-m1 who did it.. oh but not worry Russia do not have Buk-m1.. Completely ignoring that now Ukraine can reinforce
    its position that rebels captured one.  No   That imbecile have done a lot of damage with a blinder fold incomplete investigation they release and now it seems they are  backtracking on
    their claim to know everything how it have been done.

    Any real serious complete investigation ,cannot be done without the actual parts of the plane
    or at least most of the parts.. and or photos of it.. Asma Antey just took one piece of data and tried to close the investigation with just that a small part .. ignoring all other evidence released by Russia and witness reports and video filmed reports too..damaging Russian Government own investigation by creating doubts ,at least on the general stupid public.. that believe things are either white or black.. but nothing else.

    This is why Asma antey should dedicate to building air defenses and stop  trying now to solve
    a crime and do detective investigation..that their first attempts failed big time. How can they release such sensitive report without consulting with Russia government? Shocked

    Is stupidity beyond proportions .





    Last edited by Vann7 on Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:27 pm; edited 3 times in total

    auslander
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  auslander on Tue Jun 02, 2015 10:48 pm

    "Since you are closer to the action than probably anyone else, has there been any concern over the developments in the Odessa oblast?"

    Yes, but much more concern over Transdnistria. Odessa is on it's own of the moment. Transdnistria is a horse of a different colour, it's beginning to smell like 08 08 08, but if so is it a noisy demonstration to attract attention away from the eminent attack on Novorossiya?

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  franco on Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:01 pm

    Has anyone heard this or just someone's wet dream?
    http://fortruss.blogspot.ie/2015/06/ukraine-notified-un-it-recognizes.html


    Update - direct link.


    Last edited by franco on Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:42 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Rodinazombie on Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:12 pm

    auslander wrote:"Since you are closer to the action than probably anyone else, has there been any concern over the developments in the Odessa oblast?"

    Yes, but much more concern over Transdnistria. Odessa is on it's own of the moment. Transdnistria is a horse of a different colour, it's beginning to smell like 08 08 08, but if so is it a noisy demonstration to attract attention away from the eminent attack on Novorossiya?

    I just dont see the ukies being idiotic enough (and thats saying something) to pull another 8/8/8, they would blow all their 'credibility' with a direct attack and ukraine would be torn apart permanently.  The only way they can pull something in transnistria is by provoking the russians into doing something that they can portray as russian aggression.

    It may well be a ploy however as you say, to lay down a smokescreen as to their real intentions with novorossia. Its clear they have no intentions of following the minsk treaty and i think everyone has given up on it by now, we are all just waiting for the fighting to start up again. I just hope that NAF and or russia wont be too slow to react when the ukies finally make their move.


    The next time, the ukies have to be pushed back to the oblast borders, no ifs or buts, and regardless of how many thousands of soldiers are killed. Theyve had their chances and blown every one of them.

    Ps, regarding mh17, no offence but i think everyone should just shut up about it until the report it released. In a politically tense situation as this they are going to keep a very tight lid on it and so silence so far means nothing about who is responsible. If they are covering up for something, you will see that when they release their findings. Until then its all just hot air.





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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Erk on Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:23 pm

    max steel wrote:Now, somebody is going to apologise?

    Russian Missile Maker: MH17 Shot Down by Ukrainian Missile  


    http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2015/06/02/world/europe/ap-eu-russia-mh17.html?_r=1

    Hmm not a very convincing article, why the BUK factory release a statement now, almost 11mths. after the tragedy?

    I would expect a high level of technical detail to support their claims that firstly the damage was from a BUK, and secondly that it was an M1 model.




    Last edited by Erk on Wed Jun 03, 2015 12:11 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  flamming_python on Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:32 pm

    I doubt the Ukrainians will attack Pridnestrovie out of the blue.

    Remember, they've successfully blockaded it already. All they have to do is wait until Russia violates Ukrainian airspace.
    That will give them the pretext for escelation they need.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  flamming_python on Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:34 pm

    Almaz-Antey (the Buk maker) is a state-owned or mostly state-owned corporation.
    Let's be real, they'll put out whatever report or analysis Russian intelligence would ask of them.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  kvs on Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:40 pm

    flamming_python wrote:I doubt the Ukrainians will attack Pridnestrovie out of the blue.

    Remember, they've successfully blockaded it already. All they have to do is wait until Russia violates Ukrainian airspace.
    That will give them the pretext for escelation they need.


    I am sure there will be a manufactured pretext. Something like MH17 or an attack on some Ukrainian village
    supposedly from Pridnestrovie. The NATO media will be sure to treat this frame up as God's truth.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Khepesh on Wed Jun 03, 2015 12:20 am

    flamming_python wrote:Almaz-Antey (the Buk maker) is a state-owned or mostly state-owned corporation.
    Let's be real, they'll put out whatever report or analysis Russian intelligence would ask of them.
    Yes, they would not have made the press conference without permission from Kremlin. Also this is "old" news as what they say is simply a repeat of a report made by Russian military engineers on 5 May which has full technical details http://www.novayagazeta.ru/inquests/68332.html The two main points are that the damage pattern show that it was not from a Russian BUK and that any missile could only have been fired from an area about 15-20 km south of Shakhtersk in an area not under control of VSN. In my opinion a ukrops BUK and one or two Su-25 were used. Vladimir Babak himself said he thought an Su-25 was used in at least tracking or spotting capacity, an element of his interview that is usually left out or deliberately misrepresented. I made several posts on this report and the earlier very detailed one by Boris Rozhin on another, unfriendly forum, at the time they appeared.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Vann7 on Wed Jun 03, 2015 2:31 am




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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Ivan the Colorado on Wed Jun 03, 2015 2:49 am

    kvs wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:I doubt the Ukrainians will attack Pridnestrovie out of the blue.

    Remember, they've successfully blockaded it already. All they have to do is wait until Russia violates Ukrainian airspace.
    That will give them the pretext for escelation they need.


    I am sure there will be a manufactured pretext.   Something like MH17 or an attack on some Ukrainian village
    supposedly from Pridnestrovie.   The NATO media will be sure to treat this frame up as God's truth.
    x2 I would not expect Russia to give any reason to escalate this conflict, even the supply routes are blocked. If a fight is going to happen over Pridnestrovie, the Ukrops will have to initiate it.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Wed Jun 03, 2015 4:32 am

    Ivan the Colorado wrote:
    kvs wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:I doubt the Ukrainians will attack Pridnestrovie out of the blue.

    Remember, they've successfully blockaded it already. All they have to do is wait until Russia violates Ukrainian airspace.
    That will give them the pretext for escelation they need.


    I am sure there will be a manufactured pretext.   Something like MH17 or an attack on some Ukrainian village
    supposedly from Pridnestrovie.   The NATO media will be sure to treat this frame up as God's truth.
    x2 I would not expect Russia to give any reason to escalate this conflict, even the supply routes are blocked. If a fight is going to happen over Pridnestrovie, the Ukrops will have to initiate it.

    Kiev plans on seizing Russian property in the Ukraine and defaulting on loans from Russia, let's see what happens then... lol1

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  auslander on Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:19 am

    Real time commo Gorlovka/Spartak. Bombardments did not cease all night and are ongoing as of 06:50 today. According to reliable sources the ukes rarely shoot at NAF, like before they are going for civilian living areas and infrastructure. Water and electric are down in the contact's area for the last two days. Civilian and NAF casualties are mounting.

    Our contact in the Spartak areas stated that three days ago, 31 May 2015, he was driving on the Uke side of the lines about 3 kilometers north of the cease fire line. He fell in behind an OSCE convoy of five vehicles with escort for part of the journey and while following the OSCE convoy they passed a Uke Grad battery set up in an open field. He states that as the OSCE convoy passed the open field with the Uke Grads the entire convoy as one looked to the left, the opposite side of the road from the Uke Grads, and continued looking left until they had passed the sight line for the Grads. He states less than two minutes after he passed the Grad systems the Grads were fired in salvo. He stated he did not have a video registrater. He's got one now, compliments of us.

    In my opinion it is only a matter of a short time before the war begins in earnest. Technically it has already begun, there is fighting daily, often heavy fighting, from Mariupol all the way to the north borders of Lugansk/RF.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:25 am

    flamming_python wrote:
    KomissarBojanchev wrote:Why is this BS that it was a Su25 that only couldve shot down mh17 being peddled? With this crap the prodonbass narrative is shooting itself in the foot. Why isnt it cl
    aimed that i was mig29 or su27, which are far more likely to have done it? The ukrops had them,they used them,  and could hide themselves from foreign radar if necessary.

    Because it's all just wild arm-flailing contradictory BS and flooding of the info-space with crackpot theories and disinformation - in order to divert and confuse public attention from what is the most-likely explanation and always has been - that MH17 was shot-down by a rebel Buk system which thought that it was shooting down yet another Ukrainian transport aircraft.
    Everything after that has just been various forms of damage control.

    I'm sorry but it's the most likely explanation in light of everything we've seen so far.
    O'm not claiming that the ukrops didn't shoot down MH17: All evidence points out to an AAM and 30mm gun fire. What I'm saying is that why would the ukrops use a Su-25 when they had MiG-29s and Su-27s to do the job far more efficiently, not to mention they needed the Su-25s for ground attack.

    I completely believe it was a Ukrop MiG-29 which shot down MH17.

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