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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

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    Werewolf
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Werewolf on Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:58 am

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:
    KomissarBojanchev wrote:Why is this BS that it was a Su25 that only couldve shot down mh17 being peddled? With this crap the prodonbass narrative is shooting itself in the foot. Why isnt it cl
    aimed that i was mig29 or su27, which are far more likely to have done it? The ukrops had them,they used them,  and could hide themselves from foreign radar if necessary.

    Because it's all just wild arm-flailing contradictory BS and flooding of the info-space with crackpot theories and disinformation - in order to divert and confuse public attention from what is the most-likely explanation and always has been - that MH17 was shot-down by a rebel Buk system which thought that it was shooting down yet another Ukrainian transport aircraft.
    Everything after that has just been various forms of damage control.

    I'm sorry but it's the most likely explanation in light of everything we've seen so far.
    O'm not claiming that the ukrops didn't shoot down MH17: All evidence points out to an AAM and 30mm gun fire. What I'm saying is that why would the ukrops use a Su-25 when they had MiG-29s and Su-27s to do the job far more efficiently, not to mention they needed the Su-25s for ground attack.

    I completely believe it was a Ukrop MiG-29 which shot down MH17.

    Because ukrops have barely any aircraft in flight worthy conditions. The Crimean bases of ukrops had 27 jets of which only 3 were flight worthy training aircrafts you might add. So which is harder to keep flight worthy Su-25, MiG-29 or Su-27?

    Vann7
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Vann7 on Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:59 am

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:

    O'm not claiming that the ukrops didn't shoot down MH17: All evidence points out to an AAM and 30mm gun fire. What I'm saying is that why would the ukrops use a Su-25 when they had MiG-29s and Su-27s to do the job far more efficiently, not to mention they needed the Su-25s for ground attack.

    I completely believe it was a Ukrop MiG-29 which shot down MH17.


    The best report/theory comes from Veterans Today .com..
    People need to remember that when the malasyan plane crashed.. there was like 10,000
    Ukrainians in cauldrons..with many hundreds tanks and artillery all encircled by the Rebels.
    and they needed a way to quickly lift the siege ,before the ukies surrender their weapons.
    And thats when the malasyan plane was shot down.  

    The idea apparently was to make the malasyan plane crash in the war zones and later claim
    the rebels did it.. but it was expected the plane to fall in Ukraine controlled zones . So a combat
    plane air to air missile (or now according to Antei ..a Buk-M1 defense) fired a missile to show down the plane.. but it did not collapsed as they expected and were forced to finish it off with the SU-25 before it reach Russia territory. So after being hit one time.. the Malasyan plane did a turn to the left or right which ended with the plane falling in REbels controlled zone.  

    Russia government original theory was that the ukies used the Buks radars to illuminate the
    Malasyan plane position and trajectory and guide the Sukhoi SU-25 to its interception.
    In any case the most factual information we have is Russian Radars and Satellites images..
    that shows combat planes flying close to the malasyan plane before it crash.. if Russia can proof beyond doubt their data is not photoshoped and real.. then it will be very hard for kiev to proof
    they are innocent.

    In my opinion what i think..is the Buks missiles were not used other than to guide the combat planes... reason for not using the Buks? missiles perhaps the smoke trial will reveal from where the attack came..  and instead Ukraine airforce used a Custom made air to air missile with  similar explosive warhead of the Buks-m1 missiles. and that they were forced to use cannon fire to accelerate the fall of the plane. What is also interesting is that when the Malasyan plane crash.. there was US warships near Ukraine with full radar view of the malasyan plane trajectory and that they released no information from their radars about the malasyan plane flight path and the skies over Ukraine at the time of the crash of the plane.

    If rebels ever captured one buk-m1 launcher as some unoficial rumors claimed.. it had to be because Ukraine abandoned it on purpose to get the rebels framed for the plane they were planning to shot down.  Another thing not mentioned is how Donetsk ministry claimed the bodies inside the malasyan plane,some of them were already in advance rotten state just two hours after the plane crash.. as if they died days earlier.. Shocked  

    Which will point to a plane that had people killed already before the plane crashed.. if this is correct indeed ,it will point to the airport from where the plane took off ,as responsible too for
    the false flag incident. and possibly flew by control remote.. perhaps from US Navy warships near Ukraine or from another plane flying close.  In any case for me there is no doubt it was a planed staged false flag incident ..from the very start.. and the details really don't matter for me. It was a false flag aimed to frame Russia and the Rebels for the downing of the plane.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Cahaba on Wed Jun 03, 2015 7:24 am

    http://7mei.nl/2015/05/30/lev/


    M: So you are a pensioner, former miner?
    L: Yes, I was a miner.

    I testify that I saw with my own eyes how a SU fighter jet attacked Boeing. There were 3 claps. I saw everything from the beginning to the end.

    M: Are you sure it was a fighter jet?
    L: I saw it with the optics [of the monoculars]. It [the jet] started from about 700-1000 metres.

    M: Can you show the optics you have please?
    L: Using this binoculars, monoculars to be precise, I saw it [the jet] clearly. I could have even remembered its number, but I did not consider this at that moment.

    M: So why were you outside your house?
    L: I am not afraid of anyone, I am not afraid of shelling, so I was never hiding.

    M: And is your monoculars always outside?
    L: No, it is always in a place where I can quickly grab it while leaving the house.

    M: And so what happened next?
    L: The fighting started. I heard SUs flying over the surface, hitting Torez and Shakhtersk. And than I saw… The fighter jets were actually three. And later I saw that one jet sharply accelerated in that direction [pointing with his arm] to the north and went up.

    M: How did the sky look? Was it cloudy or sunny? How was the weather?
    L: It was very sunny and a bit cloudy. Weakly cloudy, I would say 4 [out of 10] for clouds. Anyway, it is all subjective, but visibility was perfect. I saw the silhouette of this rook (fighter jet) with my monoculars as I can see my own fingers. And when it accelerated, I heard the roar of turbines and it sharply went up. After some time I heard 3 claps:

    bah-bah—bah (the last one followed after some time).

    M: So you heard 3 claps?
    L: Yes, bah-bah—bah, short, exactly as I am saying. The last one after some time. I saw the plane [MH-17] started to crash. But! the central part started falling in that direction [showing with his arm], in the direction of Grabovo. The cockpit was separated, as well as one wing with a turbine and tale. Everything else was intact.

    M: So at that moment the plane was already hit?
    L: Yes it was hit and there was a loud roar of turbines.

    M: So it was hit, but the turbines were still working?
    L: Yes, there was a “sad” roar of turbines, I would say “heartbreaking”, really strong roar. And when it [the plane] started to fall and the wrecks were fuzzing already, the plane was falling with back end down. Like this (showing with his arm).


    Ghoster
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Ghoster on Wed Jun 03, 2015 8:00 am

    Cahaba wrote:http://7mei.nl/2015/05/30/lev/

    Definitely an interesting article. It's only a bit strange that it for so long for the witness to appear like that, but he definitely had no problem appearing on a video, something that was missing from some fake witness stories that were published in some western news sources.

    If the Dutch Safety Board took those BUK images in social media seriously enough, then this man should be on the top of their witness list. No kidding.

    Erk
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Erk on Wed Jun 03, 2015 8:29 am

    out of curiosity I took the two Bellingcat BUK missile trail photos from https://www.bellingcat.com/resources/case-studies/2015/01/27/examining-the-mh17-launch-smoke-photographs/





    I resized the smaller lighter first photo until the features lined up pretty well with the second photo, and guess what, the black wires should be about 1/3rd. of the way down the first photo in perfect view and they are not.

    So one or both of the images have been seriously edited.

    Try it for yourself.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Khepesh on Wed Jun 03, 2015 9:15 am

    Photo taken this morning from Petrovsky towards northern edge of Marinka

    TheArmenian
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  TheArmenian on Wed Jun 03, 2015 9:43 am

    Khepesh wrote:Photo taken this morning from Petrovsky towards northern edge of Marinka

    All I see is smoke from fire. Maybe from Explosion.

    What details are available? Is it in the Uk held territory?


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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  collegeboy16 on Wed Jun 03, 2015 9:49 am

    flamming_python wrote:
    that MH17 was shot-down by a rebel Buk system which thought that it was shooting down yet another Ukrainian transport aircraft.
    KomissarBojanchev wrote:
    I completely believe it was a Ukrop MiG-29 which shot down MH17.
    Two Men Enter One Man Leaves Razz

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Khepesh on Wed Jun 03, 2015 10:05 am

    TheArmenian wrote:

    All I see is smoke from fire. Maybe from Explosion.

    What details are available? Is it in the Uk held territory?

    It's on the front line, but at the moment the line is fluid at Marinka and face to face fighting takes place. Ukrops report that battalion "Kiev-1" is attacking in full force, tanks, BMP. Like I mentioned a few days back, they will just keep pressing and pressing, diverting attention and resources.

    Edit: Could be from by Kirov mine, or from a later explosion elsewhere near Marinka.

    VSN positions on the southern tip of Peski apparently under Grad bombardment.


    Last edited by Khepesh on Wed Jun 03, 2015 10:32 am; edited 1 time in total

    whir
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  whir on Wed Jun 03, 2015 10:22 am

    Erk wrote:So one or both of the images have been seriously edited.
    No need to. The first photo was originally identified by locals as a harvest fire on another date shortly after it's appearance.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Neutrality on Wed Jun 03, 2015 10:32 am

    In the world of politics, today is a busy day. OPEC are meeting and Russia will be there to decide what's going to happen with the global oil production. And Greece meeting with the EU heads in Brussels to decide what's going to happen with Greece's debt. So far Greece refuses to pay back.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Khepesh on Wed Jun 03, 2015 10:39 am

    Some "stuff" happening at Marinka but I want to see confirmation. Good news if true, but very conflicting reports that ukrops have been thrashed and ran and that Marinka is liberated, or partly liberated. I don't know.....

    Edit: Seems as a result of continuing attacks from Marinka by ukrops over many days, this morning VSN mounted operation to neutralise ukrops positions in Marinka. Still not official but more info appears. Reported that flag of VSN flown over Marinka. Want more evidence...

    Edit 2: Seems battle for Marinka is the real deal as ukrops are reported losses and calls for help. Possibly VSN attempting to surround and completely take Marinka. Just to clarify a little, the attacks in the morning and the large explosions were from ukrops, and it is now that VSN are counter-attacking in what must be a pre-planned operation.

    Edit 3: link to ukrops "Korrespondent" confirming they are in severe difficulty at Marinka http://korrespondent.net/ukraine/3522653-pod-marynkoi-separatysty-ydut-na-proryv-kombat-kyev-1 And as they always do, they try to turn world upside down and claim that the early moring attacks were from VSN, not themselves, and of course no mention of the constant attacks they have been launching for days.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Ghoster on Wed Jun 03, 2015 11:11 am

    War criminal Ukrainian army is mounting attacks again.

    RIA Novosti http://ria.ru/world/20150602/1067850798.html wrote:
    Authorities: APU bombarded the village Dzerzhinsk, destroyed three houses DONETSK, June 2 - RIA Novosti. The village Dzerzhinsk Novoazovskiy breakaway region Donetsk People's Republic (DNI) on Tuesday under fire from the positions of Ukrainian security officials, the head of the village administration Sahanskoy Alexander Pelipas.

    "Today fired central part of Dzerzhinsky. Many destruction posryvalo rooftops, three houses completely destroyed," - quoted Pelipas Donetsk news agency.

    In addition, as the official said, the strong were damaged water and electricity Dzerzhinsky. According to the head Sahanskoy administration, which includes the Dzerzhinsk, shelling the village from Mariupol. The bombardment lasted from about 14.00 to 15.00.

    RIA Novosti http://ria.ru/world/20150603/1067896316.html wrote:
    Residents of the village near Donetsk evacuated because of shelling
    DONETSK, June 3 - RIA Novosti. The residents of the village near Donetsk Staromihaylovka evacuated because of continuing with night attacks by the Ukrainian security officials, told RIA Novosti the head of the Donetsk staff Igor Martynov.

    "Staromihaylovki shelling does not stop with the night. Now the military to evacuate residents. Georgia was the first bus and will be transferred to Donetsk," - he said.

    Head of Administration Staromihaylovki Peter Lesniak told RIA Novosti that the village shelled from "Grad" and heavy artillery caliber over 120 mm.

    RIA Novosti http://ria.ru/world/20150603/1067886317.html wrote:
    DNR: Civilians killed during the shelling of the city of security forces in the Donbas
    DONETSK, June 3 - RIA Novosti. Civilians killed by gunfire Ukrainian siloviki town Yenakiyevo, told RIA Novosti the breakaway militia commanders Donetsk People's Republic.

    "The shelling was carried out by the Markov Yar (suburb - Ed.) And started at the beginning of the fifth. Ammunition exploded in the vicinity of the filter in the town of Yenakiyevo, killed one woman. Also damaged pipe of the central gas supply," - a spokesman said.

    The Ukrainian authorities have started in April last year in the Donbass military operation against the coup disgruntled residents of the region. According to the latest UN data, victims of the conflict were more than 6.4 thousand people.

    RIA Novosti http://ria.ru/world/20150603/1067888190.html wrote:
    MOE DNR reported a fire in the shelling due Debaltseve
    DONETSK, June 3 - RIA Novosti. The residential building in the town of Debaltsevo partially damaged by fire, arising from the shelling by the Ukrainian Army, RIA Novosti reported the press service of the Emergencies Ministry of breakaway DNI.

    This is the first shelling Debaltseve five months since February that the city is under control militia DNI.

    "During the night on the street in the city of Chkalov Debaltseve because shell hit a fire occurred in a private dwelling house. Partially damaged roof, wall and two window units," - told RIA Novosti in the MOE self-proclaimed republic. The dead and injured there.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Khepesh on Wed Jun 03, 2015 11:19 am

    Filmed in Petrovsky at 0500 and said to be the sounds of VSN artillery firing. Should be noted that ukrops launched their attack at 0400 and this is the reply. There is a report that VSN push along the road in direction Kurakhovo, but no verification for that and it seems very ambitious if true.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Khepesh on Wed Jun 03, 2015 11:27 am

    Ukrops channel five have reported possible VSN armored breakthro at Krasnogorovka, still nothing official from VSN, silence, and I have not heard any reports of fighting at Krasnogorovka except from ukrops. Possible they are telling some lies and making the reality seem worse than it is for them in order to claim massive provocation and break of Minsk 2 by VSN.

    Edit: One report only of fighting now near Kurakhovo, so treated with a lot of caution. ukrops media in overdrive about all this, DNR media and command silent. Maybe this is "it"....

    Edit 2: The fighting and possible VSN breakthro at Krasnogorovka is also reported on channel 112 quoting commander of battalion "Kiev-1". They are in a serious panic.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  higurashihougi on Wed Jun 03, 2015 12:21 pm

    Something is fishy here... how can current Ukraina economy sustain all of these ?



    BTW, for long didn't come back to militarymap... seems like Novo is pressing in Marlinka.


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