The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

TASS wrote:Moody's понизило рейтинг российского МДМ Банка до "В3"
Moody's downgraded the rating of the Russian MDM Bank to "B3"
Economy & Business May 28, 21:07 UTC + 3

Outlook - negative

MOSCOW, May 28. / TASS /. International rating agency Moody's downgraded the long-term rating on deposits in foreign and national currency of the Russian MDM Bank to "B3" to "B2" from "negative" outlook. This was reported in a press release posted on the agency's website. Continue reading.

whir wrote:

TASS wrote:Moody's понизило рейтинг российского МДМ Банка до "В3"
Moody's downgraded the rating of the Russian MDM Bank to "B3"
Economy & Business  May 28, 21:07 UTC + 3

Outlook - negative

MOSCOW, May 28. / TASS /. International rating agency Moody's downgraded the long-term rating on deposits in foreign and national currency of the Russian MDM Bank to "B3" to "B2" from "negative" outlook. This was reported in a press release posted on the agency's website. Continue reading.

gregoire wrote:Moody is soon to be irrelevant in the case of Russia and China and maybe even some others.

Khepesh wrote:Some intriguing information from Odessa oblast. I cannot directly link to the source, so it is believed or not believed, doesn't matter.
However, it is reported from multiple residents of Kotovsk, almost on the border of Transnistria, https://maps.yandex.ru/?ll=29.556557%2C47.741481&z=11&l=map that ukrops seem to be making war preperations. An influx of troops is reported within the last week and heading towards the border, that convoys of covered trucks have been seen driving about and on early morning of 26 May at Kotovsk railway station tanks of unspecified type, MSTA-S and badly disguised BUK were unloaded. It is reported by other residents that medical officers had been at Kotovsk hospital and were clearly judging it's capabilities and even measuring wards to see now many extra beds could be fitted in. This may be all imagination or not, interesting if true.

flamming_python wrote:I think many of you are pretty confused.
Support of the coupists in 1991? Really? No-one at the time thought that would be a good idea, not even their own subordinates - and for good reason.

By 1991 it was OVER.
Wayyyyy too late to save the USSR.
Doesn't matter what some communist-party hardliners did or didn't do; they didn't have the support of their own capital city's population; much less the periphery republics of the USSR half of which had de-facto long since rebelled and were busy organizing their own independent statehoods.
War in Ossetia was already raging by that time, while Nagorny-Karabakh had already been going on for quite a while.
Imagine how much more bloodshed there would have been if the hardliners succeeded and tried to re-assert control over everything with military force.

And even if they magically succeeded w/o provoking a massive civil war - what then? Have everyone's personal freedoms and the media rolled back past the Gorby-era, and probably even further to Cuban or NK standards? Desperate attempts to resurrect a zombie economy?

If there was to be any saving of the USSR; Gorbachev's reign was basically the last chance to do it. And honestly, Gorbachev had the right ideas - it's just that the execution left much to be desired, and in hindsight everything was attempted and implemented too quickly.
Change needs to be gradual, otherwise society will experience shock and disruption; while the political system, economy could destabilize and in fact that's exactly what happened.
China took a course of gradual change and reform. It worked out much better.

But really, all these reforms and so on should have started before Gorbachev; if there was to be a good chance of their success. By 1985 when Gorbachev came to power, there were already significant internal divisions and rising levels of nationalism, common people were already highly cynical towards Socialist ideology and the CPSU, the economy was already stagnant and highly dependent on what price the Soviet Union could sell oil and gas to the West too.
It wasn't an enviable situation and there would have been no assurances that the USSR could have been saved even if Gorby turned out to be the greatest leader.

The Brezhnev-era or the end of it, with the coming to power of Andropov - should have been the time to start with change and reform. It's about the time China started out on their new path, don't you know.

Neutrality wrote:China has a communistic political system and a capitalistic economic system and it works fine. The USSR would have been able to achieve the same results.

Again, Gorbachev is the biggest traitor in Russian history. Yeltsin should have been jailed (and preferably shot) like the other SFSR members. It's Yeltsin's addressing to the nation that led to the failed coup. If they had proceeded with the coup it would be over in less than an hour. I still can't understand why everything failed like that.

Karl Haushofer wrote:Why wasn't there a large pro-coup protest in Moscow back those days? Why did the people not get behind those who wanted to preserve the country en masse? Did they not know what was going on or just did not care? In 1991 there was no Internet so people were a lot less informed those days than they are now.

Pro-USSR "Maidan" in Moscow in 1991 probably would have saved the country.

franco wrote:

Khepesh wrote:Some intriguing information from Odessa oblast. I cannot directly link to the source, so it is believed or not believed, doesn't matter.
However, it is reported from multiple residents of Kotovsk, almost on the border of Transnistria, https://maps.yandex.ru/?ll=29.556557%2C47.741481&z=11&l=map that ukrops seem to be making war preperations. An influx of troops is reported within the last week and heading towards the border, that convoys of covered trucks have been seen driving about and on early morning of 26 May at Kotovsk railway station tanks of unspecified type, MSTA-S and badly disguised BUK were unloaded. It is reported by other residents that medical officers had been at Kotovsk hospital and were clearly judging it's capabilities and even measuring wards to see now many extra beds could be fitted in. This may be all imagination or not, interesting if true.

A similar article from 3 days ago;
http://fortruss.blogspot.ca/2015/05/russian-defense-source-us-intelligence.html

flamming_python wrote:I think many of you are pretty confused.
Support of the coupists in 1991? Really? No-one at the time thought that would be a good idea, not even their own subordinates - and for good reason.

By 1991 it was OVER.
Wayyyyy too late to save the USSR.
Doesn't matter what some communist-party hardliners did or didn't do; they didn't have the support of their own capital city's population; much less the periphery republics of the USSR half of which had de-facto long since rebelled and were busy organizing their own independent statehoods.
War in Ossetia was already raging by that time, while Nagorny-Karabakh had already been going on for quite a while.
Imagine how much more bloodshed there would have been if the hardliners succeeded and tried to re-assert control over everything with military force.

And even if they magically succeeded w/o provoking a massive civil war - what then? Have everyone's personal freedoms and the media rolled back past the Gorby-era, and probably even further to Cuban or NK standards? Desperate attempts to resurrect a zombie economy?

If there was to be any saving of the USSR; Gorbachev's reign was basically the last chance to do it. And honestly, Gorbachev had the right ideas - it's just that the execution left much to be desired, and in hindsight everything was attempted and implemented too quickly.
Change needs to be gradual, otherwise society will experience shock and disruption; while the political system, economy could destabilize and in fact that's exactly what happened.
China took a course of gradual change and reform. It worked out much better.

But really, all these reforms and so on should have started before Gorbachev; if there was to be a good chance of their success. By 1985 when Gorbachev came to power, there were already significant internal divisions and rising levels of nationalism, common people were already highly cynical towards Socialist ideology and the CPSU, the economy was already stagnant and highly dependent on what price the Soviet Union could sell oil and gas to the West too.
It wasn't an enviable situation and there would have been no assurances that the USSR could have been saved even if Gorby turned out to be the greatest leader.

The Brezhnev-era or the end of it, with the coming to power of Andropov - should have been the time to start with change and reform. It's about the time China started out on their new path, don't you know.

franco wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:Can we please drop early 90's history lesson? It is not relevant to topic and is clogging the tread.

Here, have a Snickers bar...

And just in case you are unfamiliar with North American commercials

https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?p=have+a+snickers+bar+commercial&ei=UTF-8&hspart=mozilla&hsimp=yhs-001

PapaDragon wrote:

Snickers is actually my favorite chocolate  

And watch that tone dude, I outrank you now!  

That's: "Here, have a Snickers bar Senior Sergeant"

Vann7 wrote:
OMG you need to see this..

A new video surface from 2012.. about what Kiev thinks about the Tatars..
Notice different kiev opinion was about Tatars ,when they did not had any motives to
use propaganda.



Wondering if the Tatars Imbecile leader is aware of that..  if he is.. the is have to be paid
very well for siding with kiev.

Cowboy's daughter wrote:

Vann7 wrote:
OMG you need to see this..

A new video surface from 2012.. about what Kiev thinks about the Tatars..
Notice different kiev opinion was about Tatars ,when they did not had any motives to
use propaganda.



Wondering if the Tatars Imbecile leader is aware of that..  if he is.. the is have to be paid
very well for siding with kiev.

I really loathe this guy.

franco wrote:

Khepesh wrote:Some intriguing information from Odessa oblast. I cannot directly link to the source, so it is believed or not believed, doesn't matter.
However, it is reported from multiple residents of Kotovsk, almost on the border of Transnistria, https://maps.yandex.ru/?ll=29.556557%2C47.741481&z=11&l=map that ukrops seem to be making war preperations. An influx of troops is reported within the last week and heading towards the border, that convoys of covered trucks have been seen driving about and on early morning of 26 May at Kotovsk railway station tanks of unspecified type, MSTA-S and badly disguised BUK were unloaded. It is reported by other residents that medical officers had been at Kotovsk hospital and were clearly judging it's capabilities and even measuring wards to see now many extra beds could be fitted in. This may be all imagination or not, interesting if true.

And America then will have it's European war.