The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

PapaDragon wrote:

Flagship Victory wrote:

Erk wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:Does this mean that full scale combat is back on?

I seriously hope not, the damage to Donbass infrastructure has gone on for way too long. I was hoping the putsch in Kiev would have collapsed by now, but it seems the west is hell bent on supporting their fighting even though charades like Minsk 2 seem to suggest otherwise.

The longer this goes on, the worse it is for everybody. NAF must make the kill, take Kiev, arrest Poroshenko, restore democracy to Ukraine. Only then would this nightmare finally end.

I am honestly amazed that people still buy this "fight for Ukrainian democracy" BS. If you haven't noticed, Ukraine is democratic country by all standards that are being accepted today. US and EU, two most democratic entities on the planet, say so hence Ukraine is democracy.

This has nothing to do with democracy, this is about survival of those who refuse to be third grade citizens, lower caste and slaves.

Some people here suggest that Donbass should give up and rejoin Ukraine because "east is being destroyed". What are those people smoking? Do they think that Right Sector, Azov Porky and other assorted scum will just kiss and make up with them?
No, they will subjugate and exterminate them with tacit and overwhelming approval of entire Ukrainian population which includes those "poor oppressed democracy-loving Russians in Ukraine" who "just want to work and be left alone". These willing slaves deserve everything they get starting with poverty and misery that they feel now due to collapsing economy and that is just the start.  

Everyone keeps forgetting that for 70 years now odds have been stacked in favor of West Ukraine, the very same Nazis that are responsible for unspeakable atrocities and their direct successors. Instead of being reduced  to agrarian sh*thole entire Ukraine has been treated with velvet gloves in order to appease that scum. This is what you get when you fail to enact justice. This entire chaos is result of 70 year old issues being swept under a rug and desire of spineless slaves to remain slaves.

Good for them but there are some of those who refuse to be slaves and they will do what they can not to end up as slaves. So fu*k the infrastructure of Donbass, let the whole thing burn. You can build it again, but once you chose to be a slave you will always be a slave.

And I would like to reiterate one again that Russia is under no obligation to do anything to help rebels. Russia's only obligation is safety and wellbeing of it's citizens. They however do provide very generous help to Novorossia at no small cost to themselves and deserve nothing but gratitude.

Choice is simple for East Ukraine: slavery or struggle for freedom. Most opted for slavery, may they enjoy it in poor health(and they will, as all slaves do).

Tiny minority opted for struggle for freedom. I wish them best of luck in long and bloody battles ahead. And make no mistake, struggle for freedom, real freedom, is never short and bloodless.

Agree!

Cowboy's daughter wrote:Any comments or knowledge about this article?

Who owns Metinvest?

Stefan Huijboom ‏@SHuijboom 6m twitter



http://www.metinvestholding.com/ua/press/news/show/6944

google translate

Another powerful shelling Avdeyevka coke plant led to its stop  May 24, 2015  [Another powerful shelling Avdeyevka coke plant led to its stop] On Saturday, May 23, was again shelled powerfully Avdiivka Coke Plant (AKHZ) Metinvest Group. At the factory more than 40 shells explode. Victims and survivors among the staff there.  This is the second massive shelling plant in the last few days. The shelling on May 21, one person was killed, two injured varying degrees of severity. Railway suffered significant damage and mechanical repair shops.  Currently the company has serious destruction in the coke and vuhlepidhotovchomu shops. Shells killed four high-voltage power lines that feed Avdeyevka Coke. Urgently company was stopped. Coke suspended. Once the situation stabilizes, begin work to restore power plant.  Recall Avdiivka Coke subjected to intense shelling from July 2014. During this time in the company of more than 200 shells explode. wrote:

Akhmetov, the richest oligarch whose wealth is centered in the Donbas. He has to play a game being pro-Ukrainian while giving aid and finances to the Donbas people and government. Has many enemies amongst the others controlling Ukraine now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rinat_Akhmetov

franco wrote:

Akhmetov, the richest oligarch whose wealth is centered in the Donbas. He has to play a game being pro-Ukrainian while giving aid and finances to the Donbas people and government. Has many enemies amongst the others controlling Ukraine now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rinat_Akhmetov

I thought so, thank you.

Has this been posted?

Can not believe what they say??

Partisans "Shadows" claim that they killed the Brain
Of Korrespondent.net, Today, 4:05

http://korrespondent.net/ukraine/3518696-partyzany-otriada-teny-utverzhdauit-chto-ony-ubyly-mozghovoho

google translate:

Responsibility for the murder of a battalion commander "Ghost" self-proclaimed "LC" Alexei Brain took over some Ukrainian partisans from the group "Shadows", said the leader of the guerrillas, Alexander Smooth on your page to Facebook.

They allegedly undermined the car battalion commander of the separatists, and then finished him with machine guns. Responsibility for the murder of a battalion commander "Ghost" self-proclaimed "LC" Alexei Brain took over some Ukrainian partisans from the group "Shadows", said the leader of the guerrillas, Alexander Smooth on your page to Facebook. "Brain undermined by two remote PWS 50 at 18:48 about the settlement Mikhailovka cornering track Perevalsk - Lugansk. Coming from the settlement of Stakhanov. The explosion immediately with cerebral killed 3 people and three with two 7,62- mm AK finished off, "- wrote smoothly. He posted a photograph allegedly fired machine Alexei Brain and comments allegedly directly involved in the operation: "... Monkey worked simultaneously on the left side, where Brainstorm was sitting behind, the main blow went ... He was just an explosion, but even grunted, gave two turns, stopped grunt ..." "... Jeep" Toyota "khaki, tinted glass, ... behind, the rear axle worked ... only three got out front, so we put them, can be in the car just turned over the bodies, that transmit, that Brain minusnuli 7 people, but for my part I thought it was clearly visible, and behind one mess ... " "There was a jeep car" Chevrolet "support, it has lagged behind because of the rotation did not come out. We immediately went near the settlement and moved out cockroaches, they are standing there ... 100 people to leave aside the settlement Lotikovo, then gave the circle and through the NP ... " According to the guerrillas, allegedly declared a reward of 300 thousand dollars for their heads and 100 thousand dollars - for information on their whereabouts. wrote:

whir wrote:

par far wrote:I have been wondering, can those opium fields be destroyed in a surprise serect attack? We really need to get to those fields.

Too many, too small and it would only increase poverty.

What do you mean by increase poverty?

par far wrote:

whir wrote:

par far wrote:I have been wondering, can those opium fields be destroyed in a surprise serect attack? We really need to get to those fields.

Too many, too small and it would only increase poverty.

What do you mean by increase poverty?

Small time Afghan farmers make more money off the poppy crop than any other crop. They are dirt poor to start with so
there is a lot of incentive to grow poppies.

Hardly believable. There were no pro Ukrainian partisans in DNR or LNR and now they popped out. For partisan activity You need local support. And it doesn't exist. UKR special forces are incompetent. It's just too convient that only commanders who speak against oligarchs from LNR happen to end up dead. Why doesn't it happen in DNR?
Mozgovoy wasn't in command when he was killed. According to Gubarev he had enough..
So just question for You guys - what do You think about Igor Plotnitsky?

Regular wrote:Hardly believable. There were no pro Ukrainian partisans in DNR or LNR and now they popped out. For partisan activity You need local support. And it doesn't exist. UKR special forces are incompetent. It's just too convient that only commanders who speak against oligarchs from LNR happen to end up dead. Why doesn't it happen in DNR?
Mozgovoy wasn't in command when he was killed. According to Gubarev he had enough..
So just question for You guys - what do You think about Igor Plotnitsky?

I don't know anything about him.

Stefan Huijboom @SHuijboom · May 22
Long lines at the Ukrainian held Marinka checkpoint just before entering Donetsk



Stefan Huijboom @SHuijboom · 4h 4 hours ago
Zasyadko mine is working. Guards arent letting anyone inside though. Maybe tomorrow. They did ask me though to spread message. 'F*** Obama'

Stefan Huijboom @SHuijboom · 5h 5 hours ago
Guard of the factory says it's only working for 10% though as 'a symbol of Donbas industry'


Stefan Huijboom @SHuijboom · 5h
This metal factory in Donetsk works as usual - even on sundays. Local workers say they make 150 dollars a month



I did see this:

Oliver Carroll @olliecarroll · 6h 6 hours ago

I ask one of Mozgovoi's deputies if he believes story put forward by Lugansk, that ukrainian groups were responsible. "No, I don't" he says"

The killing of mozgovoi has really depressed me.

There are plenty of nasty people in this war, a few of which fight for the rebels who i wouldnt care if they got bumped off. But this guy was one of the few genuinely good guys. Good guys in civil wars are few and far between, he was one of them.

I also wonder what people in lugansk are starting to think about russia, when you consider their unequivocal support of russia, I do wonder of they are starting to become more cynical of russia as time goes on and the russian 'game' becomes more apparent.

Maybe this is crazy, but im starting to wish that ukrainian units opened fire on the russians in crimea last year, or that they shelled rostov border towns more often, ot at least shot down a few russian aircraft or something. At least that way russia would have been forced into a real war and the citizens of the east wouldnt have had to put up with the crap from kiev whose troops would have been annihilated.

Cowboy's daughter wrote:Has this been posted?

Can not believe what they say??

Partisans "Shadows" claim that they killed the Brain
Of Korrespondent.net, Today, 4:05

http://korrespondent.net/ukraine/3518696-partyzany-otriada-teny-utverzhdauit-chto-ony-ubyly-mozghovoho

google translate:

Responsibility for the murder of a battalion commander "Ghost" self-proclaimed "LC" Alexei Brain took over some Ukrainian partisans from the group "Shadows", said the leader of the guerrillas, Alexander Smooth on your page to Facebook.

No I do not. Yet Mozgovoi was indeed assasinated by shadows, just not these clowns calling themselves "shadows". Likely the attack was carried out by an SBU unit, no matter who ordered his death. What should be investigated is what orders all police/militia were given yesterday in that area, on where to patrol and what times, were patrols normal in all aspects, or did some patrol units have unexpected breakdowns of vehicles, or other types of delays in going on patrol. That it was an obvious road for Mozgovoi to use is not in doubt, tho different routes would sometimes be taken, even if inconveniently long. Journeys would be at different times so no pattern was made. To make a plan to assasinate unwary fools who do not take the necessary precautions is reasonably easy. However, to do this without knowing in advance a time and route is harder and will involve hiding close to the road and with a system of always having a concealed lookout, several in fact and good communications. Competant patrols should discover them. IMO, these "shadows" knew Mozgovoi's precise movements and timing and so could move into position much closer to the time and so greatly lessen the chances of discovery. It is difficult not to see this assasination as the combination of the eforts of internal and external actors. The prime beneficiary of Mozgovoi's death is the junta, of that there is no doubt, but there are secondry beneficiaries, or perhaps more accurate to say certain people who think they could benefit from Mozgovoi's death. I think they will find they are ultimately mistaken, and I hope will pay the ultimate price.

No matter who gave the order and why, I think Plotnitsky should be removed from Lugansk immediately, as even if he has no responsibility at all, as his behaviour in the war has been so useless as to be almost treason. No matter the reasons why he is in charge of Lugansk, there is a loss of command so serious that action must be taken today, this minute even. Plotnitsky has allowed this situation to occur, has allowed the deaths of Ishchenko, Bednov and now Mozgovoi, has allowed crimminality, has allowed  the military situation during the battle for Debaltsevo to deteriorate to such an extent that brigade Prizrak ran out of artillery ammunition and attacks on the south of the pocket at Nikishin stalled. I do not say he is doing this deliberately, but out of total incompetance and that he has more concern for crimminality than the people of Lugansk. He should go now and be replaced with a man prepared, if necessary, to shoot people on the spot in public for any treason or crimminality and frack what western "liberals" and "human rights" morons say. Ukrops and their handlers are coming very soon, is Lugansk ready with a worthless shит in "command"?....

Khepesh wrote:

Cowboy's daughter wrote:Has this been posted?

Can not believe what they say??

Partisans "Shadows" claim that they killed the Brain
Of Korrespondent.net, Today, 4:05

http://korrespondent.net/ukraine/3518696-partyzany-otriada-teny-utverzhdauit-chto-ony-ubyly-mozghovoho

google translate:

Responsibility for the murder of a battalion commander "Ghost" self-proclaimed "LC" Alexei Brain took over some Ukrainian partisans from the group "Shadows", said the leader of the guerrillas, Alexander Smooth on your page to Facebook.

No I do not. Yet Mozgovoi was indeed assasinated by shadows, just not these clowns calling themselves "shadows". Likely the attack was carried out by an SBU unit, no matter who ordered his death. What should be investigated is what orders all police/militia were given yesterday in that area, on where to patrol and what times, were patrols normal in all aspects, or did some patrol units have unexpected breakdowns of vehicles, or other types of delays in going on patrol. That it was an obvious road for Mozgovoi to use is not in doubt, tho different routes would sometimes be taken, even if inconveniently long. Journeys would be at different times so no pattern was made. To make a plan to assasinate unwary fools who do not take the necessary precautions is reasonably easy. However, to do this without knowing in advance a time and route is harder and will involve hiding close to the road and with a system of always having a concealed lookout, several in fact and good communications. Competant patrols should discover them. IMO, these "shadows" knew Mozgovoi's precise movements and timing and so could move into position much closer to the time and so greatly lessen the chances of discovery. It is difficult not to see this assasination as the combination of the eforts of internal and external actors. The prime beneficiary of Mozgovoi's death is the junta, of that there is no doubt, but there are secondry beneficiaries, or perhaps more accurate to say certain people who think they could benefit from Mozgovoi's death. I think they will find they are ultimately mistaken, and I hope will pay the ultimate price.

No matter who gave the order and why, I think Plotnitsky should be removed from Lugansk immediately, as even if he has no responsibility at all, as his behaviour in the war has been so useless as to be almost treason. No matter the reasons why he is in charge of Lugansk, there is a loss of command so serious that action must be taken today, this minute even. Plotnitsky has allowed this situation to occur, has allowed the deaths of Ishchenko, Bednov and now Mozgovoi, has allowed crimminality, has allowed  the military situation during the battle for Debaltsevo to deteriorate to such an extent that brigade Prizrak ran out of artillery ammunition and attacks on the south of the pocket at Nikishin stalled. I do not say he is doing this deliberately, but out of total incompetance and that he has more concern for crimminality than the people of Lugansk. He should go now and be replaced with a man prepared, if necessary, to shoot people on the spot in public for any treason or crimminality and frack what western "liberals" and "human rights" morons say. Ukrops and their handlers are coming very soon, is Lugansk ready with a worthless shит in "command"?....

They will ward off an attack from Kiev, but I doibt they have the capable men and leadership (like you questioned) to carry out attacks of their own and capturing any more territory. The rest is on Donetsk. Donetsk cannot fight this alone though, and Lugansk isnt helping with their bandetry BS, and their possible counter agents giving people up for their own gains. I agree with what you wrote. Get rid of the guy and let someone else rule. But he wont go. He will hold his power.

He was already replaced as commander so Kiev didn't achieve anything if it was even their job.
Gubarev- К МОТИВУ УБИЙСТВА

Мозговой не отжимал. На момент убийства никем не командовал, амбиции умерил.

Cowboy's daughter wrote:
German General Carl Schurz Begins His Investigation of the Post-War South

Cowboy's daughter, my vote for the great insight.

Just one question regarding your link. Why did Germany get involve in the US civil war? IIRC you guys fought against the English right? Or did I dream this.

In my opinion, Donbas could become very prosperous if Russia gives it diplomatic recognition. As it stands, Russia provides some humanitarian support here and there through its emergency services, but it is not enough.

Mozgovoy. No one knows for sure who killed him. With the number of non-existent American and other foreign 'advisors' in the general area of conflict it is well within the realm of possibility that a team was sent in to do the deed from the 'ukes'. We will in all probability never know. Arguing or getting upset about it does precisely zero good. Mozgovoy was a soldier. Soldiers get dead in war, we have already lost over 1500 soldiers dead in this war. Lord knows how many the Ukes lost. Each death is a tragedy but nothing can be done but to move on and continue the fight. To do otherwise is to dishonor each and ever one of our dead soldiers and each and every one of our dead civilians.

As for the difference between Krim/Sevastopol and Novorossiya, there is no comparison. We acted instantly, actually while Kiev was still smoldering, and our opposition to the coup was already well known. By the Monday evening after the coup in Kiev we had over 5000 in Opolchensya. Two days later we had Krim and Sevastopol Rada under our control, in the case of Krim Rada with an armed takeover and heavily armed guards in place for the duration. In Sevastopol the armed guards were there but not generally visible to the public.

Krimu is a peninsula in case no one noticed. The very few roads in to Krimu were blocked instantly as were the 5 roads coming in to Sevastopol and the three in to Yalta along with most of the roads coming in to Simferopol. The dozens of Uke military konzerns were blocked by local civilians, unarmed, and the inmates were told in no uncertain terms what would happen to them if they came out shooting. The many thousands of Uke armed forces decided not to try.

By Tuesday morning we were arming up, taking the quite large stocks of weapons and munitions from Militsiya and DAI facilities. Generally those two worthies opted not to interfere with the citizens, knowing their health was at pretty severe risk if they went against the will of the people. When our Berkut declared for us, the citizens, the entire affair was over except for the shouting. It was only days later that Simferopol asked RF to help and protect Krimu, sighting a treaty, according to sources, that was inked in the early '90's. Up until the time of the invitation to help Russian Federation Armed Forces protected their lagers and facilities but did not confront either Ukraine Armed Forces or the right sector thugs wandering around in Sevastopol and Simferopol. While I have no doubts we got some, probably a lot, of behind the scenes help concerning logistics, intell and command/control etc I personally never saw it.

Donetsk/Lugansk could not block all the roads and cart trails in to their cities and regions, actually they still can't with the available armed forces at hand. It took them weeks to get some small units somewhat organized but basically unarmed. Strelkov often voiced his concerns about the lack of young volunteers, it was the middle aged and older veterans who came to the colors those first few weeks and months. Strelkov himself, when he appeared in Slavyansk with his merry band of 20 or so, had some of his men armed with Mosin-Nagants for heavens sake.

Donbas took their good time to get organized and to seriously resist the ukes. Every fight, every killing of civilians, every single mortar or arty shell landing in civilian areas brought 10 more to the colors and another 20 who packed up and left. It was only after the citizens realized that the ukes had every intention of killing them or forcing them all to leave that real resistance started and by then it was within a hair of being too late. Without the odds and ends falling off various trucks wandering the idyllic country back roads and the extremely generous donations of vehicles, weapons and AFV's from the ukes Donbas would have fallen. In the end, and after ghastly cost, Novorossiya lives, Novorossiya will not fall.

The big difference between Donbas and Krimu is thus: We are Russian, always have been. Donbas are ethnic Russian Ukrainians. We are also sitting on one of the most strategic pieces of real estate in the world. It is no wonder VVP agreed to help and accepted us in to RF after our referendums.

As an aside, to this day we are over run with people from Donbas in essence waiting out the war. Estimates are we have well over 70,000 'visitors' from Donbas, Odessa and Kiev among other places in our little city alone. Most of these visitors are men and women of military service age. You can spot them easily on the roads by their license tags. AH is Donetsk, BB is Lugansk, AA is Kiev. I am only human, I get pretty annoyed from time to time when we are taking care of our local boys sent home to convalesce from their wounds or when we bury one of our boys killed up north. At those times it is not well advised to tell me or my lass that you are from Donbas or Kiev or Odessa.

Posted by a Donetsk resident. Looking north from Kirov district to generally the chemical plants by Kuibishevsky district. Residents reported it made a very loud bang tho not as the Tochkas fired last year.


And another view

Zhirinovski talking about mozgovoi.

So Mozgovoi was already replaced prior to his death? Who is the commander of Ghost now?

What I don't get is why NAF released the commander of the 93rd brigade who is a mass murdering Right Sector fascist?    This scum personally gave the order to shell Donetsk from the Donetsk airport.

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/ukrainian-commander-freed-from-custody-of-donetsk-rebels-389307.html

Rodinazombie wrote:

Zhirinovski talking about mozgovoi.

Can you give an English translation please? Zhirinovski is a real patriot. Had he been president of Russia, Maidan would have been stopped in its tracks back in 2013. Hopefully his son Lebedev will run for president in 2018. Now Novorossiya and Syria are both in danger from US trained and armed terrorists because they received hardly any military aid from Putin.

Zhirinoski warned Putin not to be president in 2012.  

http://sputniknews.com/russia/20120116/170783264.html

Flagship Victory wrote:What I don't get is why NAF released the commander of the 93rd brigade who is a mass murdering Right Sector fascist?    This scum personally gave the order to shell Donetsk from the Donetsk airport.

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/ukrainian-commander-freed-from-custody-of-donetsk-rebels-389307.html

Rodinazombie wrote:

Zhirinovski talking about mozgovoi.

Can you give an English translation please? Zhirinovski is a real patriot. Had he been president of Russia, Maidan would have been stopped in its tracks back in 2013. Hopefully his son Lebedev will run for president in 2018. Now Novorossiya and Syria are both in danger from US trained and armed terrorists because they received hardly any military aid from Putin.

Zhirinoski warned Putin not to be president in 2012.  

http://sputniknews.com/russia/20120116/170783264.html

You obviously are interest more in what politicians say rather what they do.

Putin has shown actions and talks much less, Zhirnovsky is a talker not a maker. You obviously are not educated enough with politics to judge figures like those.

Large explosion by Donetsk was disposal of unexploded ordnance.

[quote="Werewolf"]

Flagship Victory wrote:You obviously are interest more in what politicians say rather what they do.

Putin has shown actions and talks much less, Zhirnovsky is a talker not a maker. You obviously are not educated enough with politics to judge figures like those.

On the contrary, Zhirinosky has met Pushilin, Mozgovoi. Putin never did so. Had Maidan happened on the US's border, it would have been stopped dead in its tracks. Putin neglected the crisis in Ukraine and this allowed Maidan to succeed which is how we got to where we are today. Zhirinosky would have acted like how Obama would have acted, stopping Maidan in its infancy in 2013

It's a good thing NAF isn't dividing up internally, which would have been a disaster.

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine-abroad/agence-france-presse-kremlin-backed-rebels-deny-internal-strife-behind-commanders-slaying-389380.html

So are the Rebels planning to fight back anytime soon? I want to see the Hohols get massacred like they did in Iloviask or Debaltsevo, they've been asking for it for too long.

Ivan the Colorado wrote:So are the Rebels planning to fight back anytime soon? I want to see the Hohols get massacred like they did in Iloviask or Debaltsevo, they've been asking for it for too long.

1 Maidan serviceman killed in Adveevka today. The fighting does not stop

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine-abroad/reuters-one-ukrainian-serviceman-killed-in-separatist-attacks-in-southeast-389369.html

Any ground offensive is not possible until Putin is voted out of office in 2018. Putin does not allow any offensive because it would hurt his bucks in his pocket from selling gas to the EU.