Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    The Situation in the Ukraine. #12

    Share

    etaepsilonk
    Captain
    Captain

    Posts : 717
    Points : 699
    Join date : 2013-11-19

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #12

    Post  etaepsilonk on Sun May 03, 2015 2:50 pm

    Neutrality wrote:
    Ukraine's economy has been downgraded to a pre-default state by Western rating agencies. There's no need for anyone to troll because it's a reality.

    So what? Plenty of countries have defaulted before, including very well developed ones (Iceland).

    Neutrality
    Major
    Major

    Posts : 827
    Points : 845
    Join date : 2015-05-02

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #12

    Post  Neutrality on Sun May 03, 2015 2:58 pm

    etaepsilonk wrote:
    Neutrality wrote:
    Ukraine's economy has been downgraded to a pre-default state by Western rating agencies. There's no need for anyone to troll because it's a reality.

    So what? Plenty of countries have defaulted before, including very well developed ones (Iceland).

    Yes and Iceland has jailed all the bank mobsters after the 2008 collapse and it pushed quick and effective reforms through legislation. Iceland's debt repayments to the IMF and the Nordic countries is ahead of schedule. Most importantly it didn't have to fight a war against the other half. Iceland's recovery is an excellent example of how a country recovers from a total collapse.

    Great example, Sherlock.

    EDIT: Now Italy's government is suggesting Ukraine should give Donbass its autonomy. More and more European countries are getting behind this opinion and I'm sure Donbass' autonomy will be a condition for future European financial aid packages.


    Last edited by Neutrality on Sun May 03, 2015 3:00 pm; edited 1 time in total

    sepheronx
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 7302
    Points : 7612
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 27
    Location : Canada

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #12

    Post  sepheronx on Sun May 03, 2015 2:59 pm

    etaepsilonk wrote:
    Ivan the Colorado wrote:
    etaepsilonk wrote:Since russian strategy seems to be attrition warfare, capturing territory may only be a secondary consideration.
    May you what you mean by define "attrition" here? If you mean who is able to hold out the longest before one side breaks I agree. Capturing Mariupol which happens to be lost territory AND a major economic center of Ukraine. One steel mill alone in Mariupol is estimated to generate a forth of Ukraine's foreign investment. Taking that away would significantly hurt the Ukrops ability to hold out against Novorossiya, if not start a chain reaction leading to the destruction of Ukraine's economy. So it makes a lot of sense in taking Mariupol if needed.

    According to some prorussian trolls, ukrainian economy should've collapsed several times by now.

    Yes, by attrition I mean who'll hold out the longest. Usually it also means that army is reluctant to engage in head on assault on major urban centers because of, you've guessed it, attrition Wink
    And Ukraine can replace manpower losses far easier than russia and it's lackeys.

    Now you really gone beyond reason.

    Ukraines population has dropped from 50M in early 90's to 30 some odd million now. Russias populaion is 147M, who can replace manpower easier? Numbers actually count...

    And yes, Ukraines economy is on the brink, and why we assume it will default is based upon what their economists are saying. Defaults take years.

    Save your Ukrainian stronk for people who dont know how to read.


    Last edited by sepheronx on Sun May 03, 2015 3:01 pm; edited 1 time in total

    Cowboy's daughter
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1141
    Points : 1180
    Join date : 2015-04-24
    Location : Texas

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #12

    Post  Cowboy's daughter on Sun May 03, 2015 3:00 pm

    Khepesh wrote:
    Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:With the new members joining the forum, this thread has come back to life again. Thanks guys and ladies.

    It seems to me that, since the start of the war in Donbass, Google Translate has become useless, and seems to me that the translator generally reverses the meanings, so material posted by Russian speaking members is really a plus for this thread and the forum in general.
    There is one other consequence of the war that does not get recognition, perhaps because it is so obvious, but we have all had to become expert at finding very obscure places in Donbass on a map. Sometimes I have given up, then find that whatever place has been spoken about is not even marked on map because it is the locals name for a field or some stream or small hill. But I'm sure that now we could all draw a very detailed map of Donbass in our sleep...

    I can't draw a detailed map. Very Happy Frustrating is not speaking the language, and trying to figure out whether the name of the town/place is in Ukrainian or Russian language, on a map.

    whir
    Major
    Major

    Posts : 810
    Points : 849
    Join date : 2015-04-27

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #12

    Post  whir on Sun May 03, 2015 3:12 pm

    etaepsilonk wrote:So what? Plenty of countries have defaulted before, including very well developed ones (Iceland).
    Iceland has a population of barely 300.000 inhabitants and is isolated geographically.

    kvs
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 2526
    Points : 2659
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #12

    Post  kvs on Sun May 03, 2015 3:18 pm

    Someone is claiming that Ukraine's economy is doing fine and it is only pro-Russian trolls who claim otherwise.
    What breathtaking inanity. As far as the average industrial worker in Ukraine is concerned the economy has
    collapsed. The Mariupol steel mills are shut. The Kharkov defense plants are running on vapours doing repair work even
    though they should be producing tanks. You can now see in Kiev people selling their meager possessions to
    feed themselves.

    I guess because the NATO media does not bother to report these facts, they must not be important.

    flamming_python
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3182
    Points : 3310
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #12

    Post  flamming_python on Sun May 03, 2015 3:22 pm

    [quote="etaepsilonk"]
    Ivan the Colorado wrote:
    etaepsilonk wrote:Since russian strategy seems to be attrition warfare, capturing territory may only be a secondary consideration.
    May you what you mean by define "attrition" here? If you mean who is able to hold out the longest before one side breaks I agree. Capturing Mariupol which happens to be lost territory AND a major economic center of Ukraine. One steel mill alone in Mariupol is estimated to generate a forth of Ukraine's foreign investment. Taking that away would significantly hurt the Ukrops ability to hold out against Novorossiya, if not start a chain reaction leading to the destruction of Ukraine's economy. So it makes a lot of sense in taking Mariupol if needed.

    According to some prorussian trolls, ukrainian economy should've collapsed several times by now.

    It pretty much has; economic decline was over -15% in the 2 latest quarters, and industrial production was down by over 21%
    They have absolutely no money for anything. Nor to prop up the Gryvnia either; which collapsed a couple months ago. Nor anything else. The coffers are empty.

    They are not technically in default yet, because no-one has called in their debts. International debtors are reluctant to do so because of
    a). If they do, they won't get their money back and neither will anyone else, and it will devolve into a whole mess of asset sell-offs and so on; it's easier for them to just accept debt restructuring.
    b). The US is applying huge pressure on debt-holders, both private and state, to restructure their debts with the Ukraine.

    It should be noted that Russia has refused any debt restrcturing and has insisted on the Ukraine repaying its debt of $3 billion to it sharpish on September when its due.
    If the Ukraine doesn't - that means that it has failed to meet its obligations, and it will officially be in default.

    Yes, by attrition I mean who'll hold out the longest. Usually it also means that army is reluctant to engage in head on assault on major urban centers because of, you've guessed it, attrition Wink
    And Ukraine can replace manpower losses far easier than russia and it's lackeys.

    Really?
    Is that why their 4th wave of mobilization a few months ago initiated huge protests in towns and villages all over the Ukraine?
    Why in a village in Zaporozhie the crowd was screaming 'fascists', 'junta' to the officers present?
    Why in Zakarpatia, the locals surrounded the military commisioners and evicted them from their town?
    Why you have all these vids on Youtube, which show crowds storming military commission buildings?

    Just today I read that a new scandal is breaking out in the Ukraine, over epileptics and tuberculosis-sufferers having been conscripted in the Ukrainian army. That's how desperate the situation is.

    The situation in the DNR/LNR is nothing like that. They have a few ten thousand regulars; plenty of volunteers who have been enrolled into the reserves (some 40-50k strong); and have had no shortage of volunteers lately.
    They conducted a series of mobilizations but there was no public resistance at all, everyone understood the neccessity of serving.

    Khepesh
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1631
    Points : 1700
    Join date : 2015-04-22
    Location : Ахетатон и Уасет

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #12

    Post  Khepesh on Sun May 03, 2015 3:28 pm

    Cowboy's daughter wrote:
    Khepesh wrote:
    Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:With the new members joining the forum, this thread has come back to life again. Thanks guys and ladies.

    It seems to me that, since the start of the war in Donbass, Google Translate has become useless, and seems to me that the translator generally reverses the meanings, so material posted by Russian speaking members is really a plus for this thread and the forum in general.
    There is one other consequence of the war that does not get recognition, perhaps because it is so obvious, but we have all had to become expert at finding very obscure places in Donbass on a map. Sometimes I have given up, then find that whatever place has been spoken about is not even marked on map because it is the locals name for a field or some stream or small hill. But I'm sure that now we could all draw a very detailed map of Donbass in our sleep...

    I can't draw a detailed map. Very Happy Frustrating is not speaking the language, and trying to figure out whether the name of the town/place is in Ukrainian or Russian language, on a map.
    Boris Rozhin had said that sometimes he gave up trying to find some of these obscure places, so we mere mortals can feel no shame Smile
    What was amusing last year, and it is not their fault of course, but people having to use the translator so we got some posts about "Alex Brainstorming" instead of Alexei Mozgovoi. Then the place names, and I never saw so many variants of Счастье, such happiness for people struggling with gugle Smile

    whir
    Major
    Major

    Posts : 810
    Points : 849
    Join date : 2015-04-27

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #12

    Post  whir on Sun May 03, 2015 3:40 pm

    Sputnik wrote:Just Business: Leaked Docs Reveal Poroshenko Recognized Crimea as Russian
    13:25 03.05.2015 (updated 13:31 03.05.2015)

    Business wins over politics in Ukraine, even up to the level of president where the most patriotic statements in public sometimes see the opposite actually happening in private.

    Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko has tirelessly promised to "take Crimea back" and built his image on aggressive patriotism. But leaked documents imply that he might have been among the first people to de-facto recognize the referendum of Crimea's reunification with Russia.

    An ex-adviser of ousted president Viktor Yanukovych published documents that show that Petro Poroshenko indirectly entered into negotiations with Russia just a month after the referendum. Continue reading.




    mnews via Google Translate wrote:Письмо Насти Коптевой Президенту РФ Владимиру Путину
    Nastya Kopteva Letter to Russian President Vladimir Putin
    04/30/2015

    "Hello, dear Vladimir Vladimirovich!

    My name is Anastasia and I live in Donetsk. I know that you are a very busy man, but I'd like to tell you about my life today. Why you? Two months ago, my dad died. He was a militia of Donetsk republic. He volunteered in early July, and my mother and seven months have not seen him, he was always at the forefront, but also the end of January in a battle near the Donetsk airport the Pope was mortally wounded. Now we were all alone. Our house is also close to the airport, very often had to hide in the basement all day in my school twice got a shell, I now go to school in another part of town, yet I go to art school, and this year I finish the urban music school . Many of my friends and classmates went from Donetsk last summer, we were not leaving for a single day. I was born in Donetsk, and I love his hometown, my mother and I could not leave him, because, perhaps, he, too, was scared by gunfire. But we all survived - together.

    Now almost no shooting, no longer so scared when my mother left home for. But after Dad's funeral was quite empty, he always protected us and cared for, and now even gave their lives protecting us. I miss him, I miss him greatly. Maybe it's strange, but I decided to write you.

    When I hear you on TV, I get the feeling that you can protect all of us, like me. Please protect me, my mom and my city from the war. We no longer expect help from. My mother often said that the main thing - we live to win. My grandmother survived the war with the Nazis as a child and had always said that she Victory Day - a holiday more than Easter. Unfortunately, my dad will not be able to celebrate our victory together with us, but we believe in it, we have to win, because the truth for us.

    And yet I had a dream - to go to Moscow on the day of the Great Victory, to see with their own eyes how people celebrate the victory, to see the fireworks. A year of life under bombing, I had forgotten what a holiday, like my mother to stop crying, to see her smile. And I hope that smiles around will become more and more. I ask if you can we do to help, please help, it will be for us a great and long-awaited joy.

    Thank you for all.

    Nastya Kopteva"



    Nastia with her mother is not the Internet, sometimes there is no water and light, and they often hide in a hole for potatoes 2x2 meters from the shelling. Living on the street Sobinov the Kiev region. Nastya never cries in public, says her mother in tears. She still does not believe that her husband was killed Pasha believes that he is somewhere in the war, just no communication with him.

    Ruptly TV wrote:Black balloons fly over Odessa for May 2 massacre victims


    Donetsk honours Odessa victims on one year anniversary


    Parisians pay tribute to Odessa victims in front of Ukrainian embassy


    Khepesh
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1631
    Points : 1700
    Join date : 2015-04-22
    Location : Ахетатон и Уасет

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #12

    Post  Khepesh on Sun May 03, 2015 3:44 pm

    Pravy Sektor page says that yesterday 30 soldiers of 93rd Brigade were wounded by Grad at Peski
    http://sectorpravdy.com/novyny-duk/twitter/366-vtrati

    par far
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1068
    Points : 1205
    Join date : 2014-06-26

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #12

    Post  par far on Sun May 03, 2015 4:09 pm

    whir wrote:
    Vox Populi Evo wrote:


    Kazzura wrote:



    Ukraine News Today wrote:


    DAN via Google Translate wrote:Украинские силовики из танков и минометов расстреливают блокпосты на окраине города Ясиноватая – глава райдаминистрации
    Ukrainian security officials from tanks and mortars shot roadblocks on the outskirts of Yasinovataya - Head raydaministratsii
    MAY 3, 2015 0:41
    Donets, May 3 - DAN. Security forces fired on the city Yasinovataya (Donetsk agglomeration) from tanks and mortars, said today correspondent. DAN head Yasinovatskiy district Yuri Corsair.

    "For the moment bombardment outskirts of the city. Ukrainian security officials from tanks and mortars fired at roadblocks. While data is not affected, "- he said.

    A similar situation in the Kiev region of Donetsk. As a result of the shelling, Ukrainian missiles and mortar shells exploded on the school grounds. Now the whole neighborhood Putilovsky smoke.

    Sputnik wrote:Lavrov Calls on OSCE to Demand Kiev to Stop Ceasefire Violations in Donetsk
    01:37 03.05.2015(updated 02:13 03.05.2015)

    Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov urged the OSCE Chairman in a telephone conversation to demand Kiev to stop ceasefire violations in Donetsk.

    MOSCOW (Sputnik) — Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov called on Chairperson of the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe Ivica Dacic to demand Kiev to stop ceasefire violations in eastern Ukraine’s Donetsk, the Foreign Ministry said in a statement Sunday.

    “In connection with the reports on the Armed Forces of Ukraine having begun shelling of Donetsk from large-caliber guns, Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov urged OSCE Chairman… Ivica Dacic in a telephone conversation to use his authority so that special monitoring mission of the OSCE in Ukraine demanded Kiev to immediately stop gross violation of the Minsk Agreements,” the statement published on the ministry's official Facebook page said. Continue reading

    RIA Novosti via Google Translate wrote:Представители ОБСЕ прибыли на место обстрелов в Донецке
    OSCE representatives arrived on the attacks in Donetsk
    11:37 03/05/2015 (Updated: 11:39 03/05/2015 )

    Earlier, the head of the Kiev administration and Kuibyshev district of the city Ivan Prikhodko told Donetsk news agency that as a result of night shelling Ukrainian law enforcers Kiev region has massive destruction.

    DONETSK, May 3 - RIA Novosti. The representatives of the OSCE mission in conjunction with the Deputy Commander of the self-proclaimed militia Donetsk People's Republic Eduard Basurinym arrived at the scene of Saturday's attack in the Kiev region of Donetsk, RIA Novosti reported.

    The authorities in Donetsk reported large-scale destruction of the night shelling

    Observers record the damage and make the data in a special report.

    Earlier, the head of the Kiev administration and Kuibyshev district of the city Ivan Prikhodko told Donetsk news agency that as a result of night shelling Ukrainian law enforcers Kiev region has massive destruction.

    The shelling lasted until 12 o'clock at night on May 2 and continued in the area in the morning on May 3.

    According to the Ministry of Defence of the DNI, the fire was allegedly using a sample of ammunition NATO. "Right now, exactly the type of ammunition too early to say, but there is speculation that it was a sample of ammunition NATO," - said the representative office.

    In mid-February in eastern Ukraine it was declared a truce, but soon resumed shootout, the two sides accused each other of violating the "silent mode" and state that are only returned fire. Shooting is conducted mainly in the south of the port of Mariupol, Donetsk region and destroyed at Donetsk airport. Continue reading

    Dialog via Google Translate wrote:Матиос: в Украине призывают эпилептиков и туберкулезников
    Matios: Ukraine urge epileptics and consumptives

    May 1, 2015, 20:50 - Ukraine
    Matios accuses the medical commission of incompetence.

    The Military Prosecutor's Office of Ukraine have evidence of recruitment into the Armed Forces of people with the disease epilepsy, said the chief military prosecutor of Ukraine Anatoly Matios.

    "Just two days ago we found the facts (received treatment from the military) that found that more than 100 people who have symptoms of epilepsy, have been called," - he said on "Gromadska TV".

    Matios said that an appeal had been received by the military that "after the booked arrival at the landfill and in the part of teamwork, found 100 cases (designed with signs of epilepsy - Ed.)."

    There were cases of recruitment of people with active TB, said Matios.


    The OSCE have been bribed, the Minsk II was just stupid. The Novorossiyans should bring out their own cameras and start recording everything that is happening.

    Werewolf
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5391
    Points : 5640
    Join date : 2012-10-24

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #12

    Post  Werewolf on Sun May 03, 2015 4:15 pm

    The OSCE have been bribed, the Minsk II was just stupid. The Novorossiyans should bring out their own cameras and start recording everything that is happening.

    That would require a video plattform that is not deleting every damn video that is not in US interest.

    How many hundreds of videos have been deleted along with uploader on youtube about Lybia,Syria,Ukraine or what happens in rest of the world. There was a german blogger that was closed already 3 times from the LGBT lobbies in germany because he was showing that Russia does not has laws that prohibit homosexuals to be homosexuals or kiss themselfs in public, while there was constant notion here that homosexuals in russia are witch hunted by Russia.

    This youtube is garbage to begin with just political tool when it is necessary to use it same with wikishmedia, infiltrated by agents that fight an internet desinformational war.

    Neutrality
    Major
    Major

    Posts : 827
    Points : 845
    Join date : 2015-05-02

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #12

    Post  Neutrality on Sun May 03, 2015 4:28 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    The OSCE have been bribed, the Minsk II was just stupid. The Novorossiyans should bring out their own cameras and start recording everything that is happening.

    That would require a video plattform that is not deleting every damn video that is not in US interest.

    How many hundreds of videos have been deleted along with uploader on youtube about Lybia,Syria,Ukraine or what happens in rest of the world. There was a german blogger that was closed already 3 times from the LGBT lobbies in germany because he was showing that Russia does not has laws that prohibit homosexuals to be homosexuals or kiss themselfs in public, while there was constant notion here that homosexuals in russia are witch hunted by Russia.

    This youtube is garbage to begin with just political tool when it is necessary to use it same with wikishmedia, infiltrated by agents that fight an internet desinformational war.

    Yeah I also noticed that. I didn't know Youtube was prone to this bullshit. Usually it takes alot of time to take down a channel. It's also possible to post these videos on LiveLeak or better, collaborate with channels lik RT that will publish it on their channel. Youtube will be very reluctant to take down channels lik RT.

    franco
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1757
    Points : 1797
    Join date : 2010-08-18

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #12

    Post  franco on Sun May 03, 2015 4:40 pm

    The Ukraine News Today video above of "new Russian stuff  near Luhansk" is actually the vehicles returning from the Luhansk May 9th Parade rehearsal.

    franco
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1757
    Points : 1797
    Join date : 2010-08-18

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #12

    Post  franco on Sun May 03, 2015 4:46 pm

    On 29 April a representative of the Independent Media Trade Union told the SMM in Kyiv that the killing of journalist Oles Buzyna on 16 April (see Daily Report, 17 April, http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/151791) was not connected with his journalistic activities. The interlocutor said members of her organisation – 1,500 journalists throughout Ukraine – did not feel particularly unsafe because of the incident. She instead raised a number of concerns, including opaqueness surrounding media ownership, and financial restraints impacting the industry generally and journalists personally.

    From the OSCE SMM report for May 1st.

    Wow!

    kvs
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 2526
    Points : 2659
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #12

    Post  kvs on Sun May 03, 2015 4:59 pm



    it is part of this video (ignore the tin foil hat nuttery): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDtqf0cqOCE

    It's a 30 mm aircraft gun round found shortly after the crash. This is consistent with the entry and
    exist holes in the cockpit section.

    Sponsored content

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #12

    Post  Sponsored content Today at 3:06 am


      Current date/time is Thu Dec 08, 2016 3:06 am