The Situation in the Ukraine. #12

flamming_python wrote:

Khepesh wrote:Previously the fence around the Trade Unions House in Odessa had been painted in colors of Ukraine as a provocation to Odessites, who did not respond. Last night vandals have progressed further in their provocations and destroyed the shrine to the victims of the massacre. Perhaps on a third provocation there will be a reaction, so 2 May could be interesting in Odessa, a spark to start war? I don't know. I would put the link to the article here but cannot yet post links, so need to look at madame_katushki on livejournal

Or perhaps nothing, and the Odessites and all the other Eastern Ukrainians will continue to bend over and take it up the bum - "we're working people, we have jobs", "it's really not that bad", "main thing is that it's not happening to me and my family", "what Nazis?"... while the Banderites vandalize their monuments, desecrate the memory of their ancestors, beat up people on the street, take pride in brutal murders.. and while the 'government' arrests their relatives, conscripts their sons/brothers/husbands into fighting a fratecidal war, plunges their economy into the abyss, bans or assasinates all the politicians and parties that can represent their interests, takes the entire information space of the country into its grasp, silences dissidents, tries to bar their language from public life, etc..

My prediction is that the Odessites will do precisely nothing on 2 May

Translation of the scanned document

From: Ministry of Foreign Affairs

To: Administration of border guards of the Ukraine

Ministry of Internal Affairs

Security Service of the Ukraine

Leaders of regions

12th April – 6th May multinational inspection group of military experts led by the USA arrive in the Ukraine in order to conduct observatory missions according to regulations of Vidensko Agreement concerning trust and safety.

The purpose of this mission is to observe and control the development in our country and working out the recommendations for peaceful settlement of crisis situation.

So we ask the General Stuff Control Department of the Ukrainian Armed Forces to provide the observation mission with convoy including the protected vehicles from the Ministry of Armed Forces. We also ask to provide the group with the right of access to the frontier guards’ departments and military units of interior troops in the areas under inspection.

In case of addressing the group and the member of observatory mission to the Ministry of Interior Affairs, SBU, Frontier Guards Administration representatives in the regions and areas we ask to coordinate it with the chief of convoy and discuss the possibilities of briefings concerning prospects on development in these areas.

While holding the meetings with foreign representatives we ask to proceed from the fact that according to regulations of Vidensko Agreement all foreign observers obtain diplomatic status and to take into account the requirements of Article 6 Protocol 10 concerning the reaction to Crimea and Sevastopol events signed by the SNBO Secretary Parubyi (N429 from 04.04.2014)

In case of revelation the unusual activity near the boundaries of the Ukraine as well as any activity aimed to violate state order we ask to inform immediately the chief of convoy lieutenant colonel Ponomarev Vladislav Sergeevich (mobile 097 469 9474) or orderly officer in General Stuff Control Department of the Ukrainian Armed Forces (phone/fax +44 483 0724).

Vice-director

Department of international Security V. Y. Nedopas

NN Name/ surname  m/f passport  country  Date/time  flight

1 Thomas Miller m DP25002157 Sweden 13.40 PS819
2 Ian Almgerd m DP27002223 Sweden 13.40 PS819
3 Von Rozenzveig m C4J6NCTWN Germany 13.40 7175
4 Matias Kraimer m C4J6C7GNF Germany 13.40 7175
5 Raimondas Ivanauscas m DP00002623 Lituania 14.00 L0767
6 Zulonas Zbignevas m - Lituania 14.00 L0767
7 Kari Ahrnberg m PX7061330 Finland 14.00 L0767
8 Kari Marti m PJ6001465 Finland 14.00 L0767
9 Timathy Brown m 505009090 Great Britain 14.00 L0767
10 Richard Moris m 728112125 Great Britain 14.00 L0767
11 Ach Gabor m AA0280295 Hungary 14.00 L0767
12 Tamosh Vegvery m AB0065055 Hungary 14.00 L0767
13 Brendon Presly m 910174096 USA 14.00
14 Jozef Przhevalskiy m 910168796 USA 14.00
15 Patrick Jozef McDaniel m DT0016120 Ireland 14.00
16 Korhan Karakoe m P00017328 Turkey 16.00 TK8818
17 Ruslan Getman m K4053532 Estonia 20.30 PS055
18 Raizo Saremat m KB0703280 Estonia 20.30 PS055
19 Tomashic Erchi m AS6031453 Poland 20.30 PS055
20 Martin Chervinsky m DD8010889 Poland 20.30 PS055
21 Tore C. Bade m UK00108679 Norway 20.30 PS055
22 Hamo Dalevic m 00105634 Norway 20.30 PS055
23 Ivars Ercums m LS3001193 Latvia 20.30 PS88
24 Marita Brid-Alex f LS3001201 Latvia 20.30 PS88
25 James Mackines m DZ008822 Canada 20.30
26 Pobert Martin m DZ 003733 Canada 20.30
27 Kolman Richard m 13CD12730 France 20.30 PS055
28 Pinzhon Du Sel Erac m 13RF57069 France 20.30 PS055
29 Bruni Walter m D016776 Italy 20.30 PS055
30 Santarnia Isidoro m SA0037678 Italy 20.30 PS055
31 Ivan Bela m DI5563744 Slovakia auto
32 Martin Joskak m DI0580974 Slovakia auto
33 Jozef Hvoltz m Austria auto
34 Kim Guldbeh m 450015024 Denmark 9.10 TK465
35 Henrick Hansen m 206627628 Denmark 9.10 TK465
36 Bel Ian Williams m DP01DKK31 Netherlands 9.10 TK465
37 Molen van der Guisebertus m DBND9JD89 Netherlands 9.10 TK465
38 Ishir Anton m S1008739 Austria 9.10 TK465
39 Niculasson Acsel m D5102246 Iceland 9.10 TK465
40 Garcia Arribas m XFA009475 Spain 9.10 TK465
41 Valliet Doka m BC8170548 Albania 20.40 TK457
42 Berdify Leonard m BC5301281 Albania 20.40 TK457
43 Robert Ierubino m 221732260 USA 9.20
44 Horhe Zilhao m U112894 Portugal 15.00
45 Rui Firmosinho m U112013 Portugal 15.00
46 Drago Bitench m PB0479412 Slovenia 15.00
47 Ales Chenta m PB0668738 Slovenia 15.00
48 Igor Predovchec m 147004304 Croatia 20.10
49 Vlasta Brcliachich f 086473714 Croatia 20.10
50 Ucsel Basaran m 010285 Turkey 9.20
51 Hans Georg Luber m W119045 Switzerland 11.25
52 Flavien Shaller m F1595834 Switzerland 11.25
53 Fedotov Igor m
54 Ponomarev Vladislav m
55 Homenko Alexei m
56 Pliushev Alexei m
57 Dumler Constantin m
58 Gorovetsky Alexandr m
(Note: these names have been translated from Ukrainian into English so the spelling might be incorrect)




CyberBerkut has published the list of names of western instructors in Ukraine

magnumcromagnon wrote:Photos and a report form the jackbooted, goosestepping police state in Odessa:

Kiev's Witch Hunt Continues: 39 Pro-Russian 'Saboteurs' Arrested in Odessa

magnumcromagnon wrote:CyberBerkut publishes a list of names of NATO military advisers in Ukraine:

RT wrote:A Louis Vuitton dress featured on an Elle magazine cover has caused a scandal in Ukraine, accused of being sponsored by Russian President Putin. Activists say it’s no coincidence that the dress’s colors are those of Russia’s symbol of Victory Day.

sepheronx wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

Khepesh wrote:Previously the fence around the Trade Unions House in Odessa had been painted in colors of Ukraine as a provocation to Odessites, who did not respond. Last night vandals have progressed further in their provocations and destroyed the shrine to the victims of the massacre. Perhaps on a third provocation there will be a reaction, so 2 May could be interesting in Odessa, a spark to start war? I don't know. I would put the link to the article here but cannot yet post links, so need to look at madame_katushki on livejournal

Or perhaps nothing, and the Odessites and all the other Eastern Ukrainians will continue to bend over and take it up the bum - "we're working people, we have jobs", "it's really not that bad", "main thing is that it's not happening to me and my family", "what Nazis?"... while the Banderites vandalize their monuments, desecrate the memory of their ancestors, beat up people on the street, take pride in brutal murders.. and while the 'government' arrests their relatives, conscripts their sons/brothers/husbands into fighting a fratecidal war, plunges their economy into the abyss, bans or assasinates all the politicians and parties that can represent their interests, takes the entire information space of the country into its grasp, silences dissidents, tries to bar their language from public life, etc..

My prediction is that the Odessites will do precisely nothing on 2 May

This..  what is wrong with the people? They should have pulled what donetsk and Lughansk did. Instead they are accepting this upon themselves. F them, hope the rest suffers for their lazyness. Freedom comes to those who deserve and fight for it.

DanilaMP wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

Khepesh wrote:Previously the fence around the Trade Unions House in Odessa had been painted in colors of Ukraine as a provocation to Odessites, who did not respond. Last night vandals have progressed further in their provocations and destroyed the shrine to the victims of the massacre. Perhaps on a third provocation there will be a reaction, so 2 May could be interesting in Odessa, a spark to start war? I don't know. I would put the link to the article here but cannot yet post links, so need to look at madame_katushki on livejournal

Or perhaps nothing, and the Odessites and all the other Eastern Ukrainians will continue to bend over and take it up the bum - "we're working people, we have jobs", "it's really not that bad", "main thing is that it's not happening to me and my family", "what Nazis?"... while the Banderites vandalize their monuments, desecrate the memory of their ancestors, beat up people on the street, take pride in brutal murders.. and while the 'government' arrests their relatives, conscripts their sons/brothers/husbands into fighting a fratecidal war, plunges their economy into the abyss, bans or assasinates all the politicians and parties that can represent their interests, takes the entire information space of the country into its grasp, silences dissidents, tries to bar their language from public life, etc..

My prediction is that the Odessites will do precisely nothing on 2 May

This..  what is wrong with the people? They should have pulled what donetsk and Lughansk did. Instead they are accepting this upon themselves. F them, hope the rest suffers for their lazyness. Freedom comes to those who deserve and fight for it.

Are you out of your mind? Do you really think it would be good if ATO encompassed Odessa as well? Do you think it is good when thousands die for some stupidity, to be fair from both sides? I am not going to say anything about DNR, as it seems at least they are trying, but look at LNR, it is almost like a joke, a true banana republic, and the fact that even some Russian volunteers say that some in LNR controlled territory call them, the volunteers, as occupiers etc, already tells you a thing or two. Cant believe that someone would actually advocate war and suffering.

macedonian wrote:Cool it buddy.
Not everyone is ready to pick up a Kalashnikov and go to war. People have families, kids and other stuff they worry about.
Besides, in order to start fighting people need to get organized. As an individual in Odessa what would you do? Go ask your neighbor if he's got an extra Kalashnikov you can borrow? It's not as easy as you think.

macedonian wrote:Cool it buddy.
Not everyone is ready to pick up a Kalashnikov and go to war. People have families, kids and other stuff they worry about.
Besides, in order to start fighting people need to get organized. As an individual in Odessa what would you do? Go ask your neighbor if he's got an extra Kalashnikov you can borrow? It's not as easy as you might think.

sepheronx wrote:I would protest.  I would go out and condemn the Ukrainian government of what they are doing.  I of course would inform people I trust to at least record it so that if I do go missing and never to be found, they would at least have proof.  I have a wife and daughter.  Last thing I want is for them to be labeled as a terrorist or a Russian that would mean instant death or prison.  If I know my life is in danger, I would take as many of those thugs out before I am taken out.  That goes for anywhere I live.

Werewolf wrote:That is a good reason to fight, get the family out there ASAP to russia and then fight for what is yours, not cowardly betray your own people that have been slaugthered and scum is running on russian soil today called ukraine. Grandfathers would die of shame if they would see this nazi apologatics and cowardness.

macedonian wrote:

sepheronx wrote:I would protest.  I would go out and condemn the Ukrainian government of what they are doing.  I of course would inform people I trust to at least record it so that if I do go missing and never to be found, they would at least have proof.  I have a wife and daughter.  Last thing I want is for them to be labeled as a terrorist or a Russian that would mean instant death or prison.  If I know my life is in danger, I would take as many of those thugs out before I am taken out.  That goes for anywhere I live.

People did protest. In Mariupol and Odessa, and in other places. That got them killed. Some were even burnt alive.
So now you have a choice: Go protest and get yourself killed, or hope for something better to come along.
Many chose the second, and I'm sure they are hoping for things to change every day. Perhaps they hope Russia steps in.
Perhaps they're waiting for an organized uprising or something...don't know really. But I'm sure no one wants to die in vain and live their family in dire straits.

sepheronx wrote:

DanilaMP wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

Khepesh wrote:Previously the fence around the Trade Unions House in Odessa had been painted in colors of Ukraine as a provocation to Odessites, who did not respond. Last night vandals have progressed further in their provocations and destroyed the shrine to the victims of the massacre. Perhaps on a third provocation there will be a reaction, so 2 May could be interesting in Odessa, a spark to start war? I don't know. I would put the link to the article here but cannot yet post links, so need to look at madame_katushki on livejournal

Or perhaps nothing, and the Odessites and all the other Eastern Ukrainians will continue to bend over and take it up the bum - "we're working people, we have jobs", "it's really not that bad", "main thing is that it's not happening to me and my family", "what Nazis?"... while the Banderites vandalize their monuments, desecrate the memory of their ancestors, beat up people on the street, take pride in brutal murders.. and while the 'government' arrests their relatives, conscripts their sons/brothers/husbands into fighting a fratecidal war, plunges their economy into the abyss, bans or assasinates all the politicians and parties that can represent their interests, takes the entire information space of the country into its grasp, silences dissidents, tries to bar their language from public life, etc..

My prediction is that the Odessites will do precisely nothing on 2 May

This..  what is wrong with the people? They should have pulled what donetsk and Lughansk did. Instead they are accepting this upon themselves. F them, hope the rest suffers for their lazyness. Freedom comes to those who deserve and fight for it.

Are you out of your mind? Do you really think it would be good if ATO encompassed Odessa as well? Do you think it is good when thousands die for some stupidity, to be fair from both sides? I am not going to say anything about DNR, as it seems at least they are trying, but look at LNR, it is almost like a joke, a true banana republic, and the fact that even some Russian volunteers say that some in LNR controlled territory call them, the volunteers, as occupiers etc, already tells you a thing or two. Cant believe that someone would actually advocate war and suffering.

so what do you suggest?  Take it all and allow yourself and family be subjugated to the other extreme?  I have family who died to fight against this very thing in Ukraine.  They should be fighting for their freedom.  Sitting around and then complaining about it will make it their own fault.

I don't know about LNR that much but DNR is doing what it really is trying to, in order to gain its freedom.  If you are against that, then I suppose you are for the Nazi like treatment from Kiev?  Or do you expect the west to simply one day say "we were wrong"?  Cause that wont happen.

Yeah, my great grandfather who died for Ukraine would be rolling in his unmarked grave over this.  I suggest you tell the DNR people not to bother fighting cause it is killing their people (the Kiev government actually) and just accept being controlled.

You are the worst type of people who will lie down and take it.

Why don't you go over there and tell them they are wrong.  I would love to see that.  I bet your ass would be hanging from a poll pretty quickly.  Because a lot of people are fighting for their rights.  Unless you are blatantly ignoring what the Ukrainian government is doing - killing opposition members and journalists, along with individuals.

Once again, whos fault is it for the deaths?  If you say the Novorussians, we have nothing further to discuss.  Cause last I checked, it wasnt Kiev or Lviv getting shelled.  Remember the Odessa massacre?  Yeah, people sitting complacently allowing that to happen deserve no freedom.

Rodinazombie wrote:you know what?

Even if everyone east and south of kiev had risen against the regime, they still wouldnt have won the war, because there isnt the desire in moscow for that to happen. Putin got what he wanted in crimea and thats all.  Wishing that the civil war would spread to other areas would simply be signing the death warrants of thousands of people for nothing. Putin should have gone in last summer when the ukies started usimg artillery against civilian areas in slavyansk, destroyed the enemy and removed the nutjobs from kiev.

He couldnt have been vilified or 'sanctioned' any further if he had done that than what he is now.

Back to the odessites, I do wish they would rise up and protest against the regime, to show the world how they already feel, but again, theyve already done that and look what happened. Take kharkov last year for example, the marches there were tens of thousands strong. Then the ukies arrested everyone in sight, sbu is busy purging the city and 'uberpatriots' are giving friendly visits yo anyone suspected of being a vatnik. I really cant blame them for doing little, but after a while i start to kinda think they get what they deserve by doing nothing.

sepheronx wrote:

Rodinazombie wrote:you know what?

Even if everyone east and south of kiev had risen against the regime, they still wouldnt have won the war, because there isnt the desire in moscow for that to happen. Putin got what he wanted in crimea and thats all.  Wishing that the civil war would spread to other areas would simply be signing the death warrants of thousands of people for nothing. Putin should have gone in last summer when the ukies started usimg artillery against civilian areas in slavyansk, destroyed the enemy and removed the nutjobs from kiev.

He couldnt have been vilified or 'sanctioned' any further if he had done that than what he is now.

Back to the odessites, I do wish they would rise up and protest against the regime, to show the world how they already feel, but again, theyve already done that and look what happened. Take kharkov last year for example, the marches there were tens of thousands strong. Then the ukies arrested everyone in sight, sbu is busy purging the city and 'uberpatriots' are giving friendly visits yo anyone suspected of being a vatnik. I really cant blame them for doing little, but after a while i start to kinda think they get what they deserve by doing nothing.

One cannot expect to be supported to simply rise and revolt.  It may be nice to obtain assistance but in the end, you may have to go it alone.  A lot will die but there is always a chance, and Kiev has proven countless of times they are almost incapable of fighting.

The question is, with all the people being purged or arrested, what will happen eventually?  People will remember this for quite some time.  Maybe by then Porkyshenko and Ratsenyuk will have stolen what they could and flee.

Rodinazombie wrote:you know what?

Even if everyone east and south of kiev had risen against the regime, they still wouldnt have won the war, because there isnt the desire in moscow for that to happen. Putin got what he wanted in crimea and thats all.  Wishing that the civil war would spread to other areas would simply be signing the death warrants of thousands of people for nothing. Putin should have gone in last summer when the ukies started usimg artillery against civilian areas in slavyansk, destroyed the enemy and removed the nutjobs from kiev.

But wheres that 'russian' fighting spirit? Being treated like that should harden their resolve and will to resist, yet they just continue to bend over and take it.

flamming_python wrote:I agree with sepheronx, there are times when you must fight and there is no alternative; even if you have a job, if you have a family, etc... especially if you have a family in fact.. you must do it.

Look at where their passivity brought them. Now even their monuments to their dead are being desecrated by the same fascist hooligans who murdered them, and who are laughing their ass off at the local 'pacifists', and exchanging jokes about all the 'fried Colorados' they cooked up last May.
They're only going to get more bold. They'll push, they'll dare the locals to hit back, and when they don't - and they know they won't, they'll go further still.

The easiest way for me to answer the question about Odessa and other 'passive' regions is simply to question whether here, in St. Petersburg, and in other Russian cities - these same Banderites would be tolerated for even a second.

The only conclusion I can come to, is that if these Banderites did were effectively the state-sponsored vigilantees here, backed up by a security service that openly declares that it wants to model itself after WW2 Nazi collaborators, and these Banderites tried to do anything at all here.. well, the only thing I can imagine is that the entire city will rise up overnight and kill this group of bloody scum, and openly revolt against the government.
I can't imagine the same thing being tolerated in any Russian city as what is being tolerated in the cities of eastern Ukraine - even for a day. There is simply no way these Banderites would be allowed to continue to breathing if Odessa was a Russian city.

Sevastopol is a prime example of a 'Russian' city and how it behaves. They rose up immediately and were already taking up arms as soon as the first smell of Banderites reached the peninsula.

Which does confuse me; seeing as the people of Odessa and the people of Russia are effectively one and the same.

What the hell has happened to them?

TR1 wrote:http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1274755.html

Thermobaric warhead Kornets used in Ukraine.

I wonder where they came from.

TR1 wrote:http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1274755.html

Thermobaric warhead Kornets used in Ukraine.

I wonder where they came from.

etaepsilonk wrote:

TR1 wrote:http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1274755.html

Thermobaric warhead Kornets used in Ukraine.

I wonder where they came from.

Seriously man, you still worrying 'bout some freakin' kornets?