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    Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Russian Patriot
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    Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization Empty Serbia Looks to Buy Several MiG-29 Fighters From Russia

    Post  Russian Patriot on Tue May 07, 2013 12:00 am

    BELGRADE, May 6 (RIA Novosti) – Serbia is planning to buy several MiG-29M/M2 Fulcrum fighter jets from Russia, and Serbian pilots are already being trained in flying the aircraft, the country’s First Deputy Prime Minister and Defense Minister Aleksandar Vucic said on Monday.

    Serbia expects to buy the aircraft on credit, he said, adding that the final cost of the deal will depend on what weapon systems are installed on them as well as on the volume of spare parts to be purchased.

    The parties are set to hash out the details of the agreement during Serbian President Tomislav Nikolic’s visit to Russia on May 21 and Vucic’s visit from May 23-24.

    The new deal may be linked to the modernization of Serbia’s Moma Stanojlovic aircraft maintenance factory, which is due to become a regional center for servicing MiG-family aircraft, many of which are in service in neighboring countries, the minister said.

    Serbian media reported in late April that the country hopes to buy a total of six MiG-29M/M2 fighters and two radar stations from Russia, and that the deal could be closed before the end of this year.

    http://en.rian.ru/military_news/20130506/180999564/Serbia-Looks-to-Buy-Several-MiG-29-Fighters-From-Russia.html

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    Post  George1 on Tue Aug 05, 2014 12:21 am

    Source: Army of Serbia does not have a single fighter jet in working condition

    During the recent floods, doubts appeared in public whether the Army of Serbia has enough capacity to fulfill its third constitutional mission to help the population during natural disasters, but the actual condition of the combat equipment raises the question of whether the Army of Serbia can perform its first duty – defense of the country.

    A source of Beta agency, close to the Air Force command confirmed the report of Serbian daily Politika that the Army of Serbia does not have a single fighter in working condition because batteries for MiG-21 and MiG-29 were not purchased from Russia.

    Although it is a purchase of the assets that cost tens of thousands of euros per set, a delay in the purchase occurred not only because of the lack of money, but also because of “very rigid and bureaucratized system” that indefinetly prolongs the procurement, although even Russian squadrons, that use MiG-29, purchase batteries on the civilian market.

    However, the same source claims that the situation in aviation is so difficult that it goes beyond the issue of procurement of batteries, but threatens to cause elimination of an entire corps due to the lack of aircrafts, fuel, spare parts, and even trained personnel.

    Although on paper Army of Serbia has two aviation brigades stationed in Batajnica, Kraljevo and Nis, and a dozen types of aircrafts and helicopters in use, besides Gazelle helicopters, all other types of aircrafts do not fly at all, or the maintenance is being performed only on few of them, insufficient even for the basic flight training.

    Fighter Aviation stopped flying last month, but even before that the situation was not much better. Despite the fact that there are dozens of MiG-21 and MiG-29 on the Batajnica airport, in reality only three MiG-21 aircrafts are active (two single seat versions and one two-seater) and three MiG-29. Before the crisis with the batteries their activities were limited only to basic maintenance and attendance in air defense system tests, which are currently not performed, probably for the first time after World War II.

    The other MiG-21 aircrafts are not flying because of the expiration date of the producer – 30 years since the introduction to armament. Two MiG-21 had an extension of the period for another year, or two years, with assistance of the representatives of the manufacturer from Russia, but one of them will pass the expiry date as early as next week, after which it will be permanently grounded.

    Although it has four MiG-29, left after NATO bombing in 1999, Serbia has rarely used more than three aircrafts at the same time, despite the repair that was done a few years ago.

    Fighter Aviation of the Army of Serbia has aircrafts Orao and Supergaleb, but again only on paper, because Orao aircrafts have not flown for more than half a year. After the crash of the aircraft Orao in Mrcajevci, in mid-November 2013, all aircrafts of the this type were grounded. The analysis of the crash and eventual system repairs of the other aircrafts have not yet been performed, so the aircrafts remain grounded.

    A few days ago one Orao two-seater flied, but this was not an aircraft from the unit, but an aircraft that has spent few years in repairing, so now flight tests are being performed. As for the aircraft G-4 Supergaleb, Army of Serbia has about a dozen aircrafts of this type, but the problem is that announced modernization of them is being prolonged for years, as well as digitalization that should enable their usage until 2020 and training of the future pilots for modern aircrafts. In fact, with current possibilities and composition of the instrument panel, which are only analog, future pilots can not be trained for modern aircrafts which only have digital multipurpose instruments. Therefore it was decided to carry out the modernization of the aircraft, especially the cockpit, but the deadline for tendering for the job expired at the end of 2008.

    The basic trainer aircraft at the moment is still Utva-75, which is at the end of its resources, and which should already be out of use. Instead of it Lasta 95 should be introduced, but the introduction of the aircraft is still delayed because the planned changes in the construction have not been carried out. It was estimated that these changes would prevent the repetition of the crash in which Major Goran Savic was killed on September 26 2012.

    The situation is not much better in the transport component of the aviation because at this moment Serbia has only two operational An-26 aircrafts. However, repair resource is expiring this year on one of the aircrafts, and next year on the other one. Although both aircrafts could still be repaired, the budget does not include funds for it, so their fate is uncertain. As for helicopters, which were very actively used during recent floods, their condition is very difficult both in terms of numbers and in terms of age. Army of Serbia uses total of eight tranasport helicopters – two Mi-17 and six older Mi-8. The average age of Mi-17 helicopters is 24 years, while the youngest Mi-8 is 34 years old.
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    Post  Battalion0415 on Wed Jan 07, 2015 12:52 pm

    Todays strenght of fighter jets is small. They need force up with new Mirage-2000(have they this today?).

    20 new Mirage-2000. 14 go to 34 fighter jets.

    Thinking Serbia force up theirs first size and after that they need more jets.

    No Africans nation's Serbia are.
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Jan 08, 2015 8:23 am

    Serbia couldn't afford Mirage 2Ks... and I doubt they would buy from a country that so recently bombed them.

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    Post  NickM on Fri Jan 09, 2015 9:16 am

    George1 wrote:Source: Army of Serbia does not have a single fighter jet in working condition

    Not surprising. The Serbs suffered heavily at the hands of NATO in the Kosovo war. More than 10,000 Serbian army regulars were killed and the major portion of their air force was wiped off.

    Even today that country is in complete ruins and unemployment is rife. A number of Serbs are therefore forced to work in the UK. There is a large population of migrant Serb workers in London.
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    Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization Empty Source: Army of Serbia does not have a single fighter jet in working condition

    Post  Werewolf on Fri Jan 09, 2015 9:34 am

    NickM wrote:
    George1 wrote:Source: Army of Serbia does not have a single fighter jet in working condition

    Not surprising. The Serbs suffered heavily at the hands of NATO in the Kosovo war. More than 10,000 Serbian army regulars were killed and the major portion of their air force was wiped off.

    Even today that country is in complete ruins and unemployment is rife. A number of Serbs are therefore forced to work in the UK. There is a large population of migrant Serb workers in London.

    Someone has no idea about 1999 NATO aggression, the bombing campaign was a major bullshit without singificant results due the massive and clever use of Serbian dummies so US aggression ended up not capable to comprimise Serbias military strength that is why after a while they started targeting purposely civilians, hospitals, trainstations, TV stations, infrastructure and even chinese embassy. The jets are not in operatable conditions because they have no money to keep them operatable which is also result of US aggression.
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    Post  George1 on Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:15 pm

    Serbia is planning new purchases and repair of aircrafts, including two new Mi-17 helicopters
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    Post  George1 on Mon Jun 15, 2015 4:07 pm

    Serbia wants with the help of Russia to modernize its MiG-29s
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    Post  Prince Darling on Mon Jun 15, 2015 4:19 pm

    translation of this is, serbia would like russia to more or less donate these jets/upgrade the few existing mig 29s

    there is no money for expensive military gear in serbia, its a pipe dream, the first priority by far is investing in economy, lowering unemployement, etc.

    not dropping +100M $ on jets that are of little use compared to the pricetag
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    Post  Cyberspec on Wed Jun 17, 2015 3:10 am

    Much better (and cheaper) than letting foreign airforces patrol your airspace....we're only talking about 4 x aircraft for air policing duties essentially
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    Post  Guest on Sun Sep 27, 2015 4:51 pm

    "Vojska Srbije ne zna šta ima

    Akumulatori koji su bili neophodni da bi MiG-ovi Vojske Srbije mogli da polete godinama su stajali zatureni u jednom vojnom skladištu u Pančevu! Ministarstvo odbrane potvrdilo je da su prilikom popisa imovine vojske u hangaru Centralne logističke baze u Pančevu pronađeni delovi za 18 akumulatora! Akumulatori su kupljeni još 2009. godine, a umesto da jedan uređeni i disciplinovani sistem kakav bi trebala da bude Vojska u svakom času zna šta se nalazi u njihovim skladištima, Srbija je morala da se za pomoć obrati Ruskoj Federaciji. Na kraju su na inicijativu ruskog predsednika Vladimira Putina srpskoj vojsci poklonjena dva akumulatora za MiG-ove, vredna 90.000 evra. Na pitanje kako je moguće da se desi ovakav propust i odsustvo koordinacije, Dragan Šutanovac, koji je bio ministar odbrane 2009. godine kada su nabavljeni akumulatori, priznaje da ne može da ponudi smislen odgovor." Source: http://www.vesti-online.com/Vesti/Srbija/521087/Vojska-Srbije-ne-zna-sta-ima

    Shortened translation:

    Serbian army does not know what it has in its possession

    Batteries that were needed for Serbian MiG fleet to be operational for years were laying forgotten in one of the military storage facilities in Pančevo. Ministry of Defence confirmed that during latest inventory check in one of the hangars of Central Logistic base they found parts for 18 such batteries" (ready to be assembled apparently). These parts were bought back in 2009. and one highly efficient and disciplined system like the army should be was not aware of their existance. When Serbian Air Force faced shortage of batteries for their fighters, President of Russian Federation Vladimir Putin personally ordered two sets of such devices to be gifted to Serbian AF. This gift was worth around 90.000 euros.

    Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization Tan2015-9-12_191637314_0
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    Post  Guest on Sat Oct 31, 2015 12:32 am

    "Ремонт руских хеликоптера у Србији чија је реализација најављена током посете Русији, донео би нашој земљи економску, али и технолошку корист, сматрају стручњаци. Кажу да не рачунајући ремонт домаћих ваздухоплова имамо и кадровске и просторне капацитете за поправку најмање пет хеликоптера годишње. Премијер је приликом посете Москви изјавио да би број требало да буде најмање 20 пута већи. Колико ће руских хеликоптера слетети у хангаре наше наменске индустрије још није познато. Чињеница је да би такав посао захтевао ангажовање великог броја ескперата различитих струка. Ремонт чак и једног хеликоптера годишње исплатив је посао, кажу војни стручњаци.  Колико ће руских хеликоптера слетети у хангаре наше наменске индустрије још није познато. Чињеница је да би такав посао захтевао ангажовање великог броја ескперата различитих струка. Ремонт чак и једног хеликоптера годишње исплатив је посао, кажу војни стручњаци.

    Пуковник у пензији Зоран Бисерчић каже да није реч само о економском основу што је можда на првом месту. "Ремонт савремених хеликоптера за ремонтни кадар у војсци значи и едукацију и оспособљавање за неку нову технологију. Што се тиче опреме и алата и уређаја који су за ремонт, мислим да се споразум креће ка томе да ми то добијамо, ми не морамо то да купујемо", каже Бисерчић. Главни део обавеза преузео би Завод "Мома Станојловић". Посла би било и за панчевачку "Утву" и "Прву петолетку" из Трстеника. За бившег помоћника министра одбране важно је да Србија не буде само ремонтна база већ и база за производњу резервних делова. Капацитете за ремонт имамо. "Питање је колики би обухват радова био а недостајуићи капацитет би у релативно кратком року могли да обезбедимо", каже Илија Пилиповић, бивши помоћник министра одбране.

    Према његовим речима, највише би нам се исплатио хеликоптер "ми-17" за кога је за очекивати да ће се њим Војска Србије опремати, а и "ми-17" је широко распрострањен у целом свету. Без улагања посао ће се тешко реализовати. А план је да се постојеће могућности увећају бар 10 пута. Министар одбране Братислав Гашић каже да више од 50 година није улагано у ремонтне заводе Војске Срвбије. "Желимо у њих да улажемо значајнија срдства и подигнемо њихове капацитете да можемо да вршимо ремонт од 50 до 100 хеликоптера на годишњем нивоу", рекао је Гашић, додајући да се неда да ће то бити брзо. Најављено је да би Србија ремонтовала руске хеликоптере који су сада смештени у Пољској и Чешкој."


    Short "translate":

    Serbia at this moment can overhaul 5 Russian helicopters per year with current facilities and workforce, beside own needs (which i doubt are over 2-3 helicopters yearly in total including Gazelas). Serbia might form with Russian help center for overhaul of Mi17 and its derivates for foreign customers, most notably Poland and Czech. Cappacity for overhaul and repair will be increased to 50 to 100 helicopters per year (sic!). Major companies that will be included are Utva (aircraft and metal constructions production, in bankrupt state atm), Prva Petoletka (hydraulics, tooling, PLCs, pneumatics etc, also in bankrut state of a sort) and Moma Stanojlovic (one of major ex Yugoslavian overhaul centers for airforce).

    If someone needs more details of further clarification on something, feel free to ask.

    Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization IMG_7951

    One shot from Moma Stanojlović hangars.

    Source: http://www.rts.rs/page/stories/ci/story/124/Друштво/2088828/Ремонт+руских+хеликоптера%2C+од+економске+до+технолошке+користи.html
    Translated: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=sr&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=sr&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rts.rs%2Fpage%2Fstories%2Fci%2Fstory%2F124%2FДруштво%2F2088828%2FРемонт%2Bруских%2Bхеликоптера%252C%2Bод%2Bекономске%2Bдо%2Bтехнолошке%2Bкористи.html&edit-text=
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    Post  Cyberspec on Sun Nov 01, 2015 12:09 am

    50-100 helicopters per year is a pretty big deal if implemented....actually even half of that would be a worthy achievement.

    Any news on the second hand MiG-29's and other stuff mentioned recently?
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    Post  Guest on Sun Nov 01, 2015 12:26 am

    Cyberspec wrote:50-100 helicopters per year is a pretty big deal if implemented....actually even half of that would be a worthy achievement.

    Any news on the second hand MiG-29's and other stuff mentioned recently?

    Not big...but HUGE. 50 helicopters per year, i dont think even Russia has maintenance center that can do that many alone, maybe Aircraft Repair Plant No. 356 only.

    Nothing solid still, mostly rumons and on other hand BS by local media which are nearing to start claims of last Typhoon being given to us to use it on Danube river.
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    Post  George1 on Sat Jan 16, 2016 2:10 am

    Russian Weapons to Maintain Balance of Power in Balkans

    Serbia eyes buying Russian-made Tor, Pantsir, and Buk air defense systems as well as MiG-29 jet fighters, in response to Croatia’s plans to purchase US-made MGM-140 ATACMS tactical missiles.

    The Serbian military has already sent its requests to Moscow. They will be considered by the end of January by a bilateral commission on technical and military cooperation, the Russian newspaper Kommersant reported Friday.

    The Serbian Defense Ministry has submitted to the Russian Federal Military and Technical Cooperation Service a list of weapons it would buy, Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin said, as a result of his visit to Belgrade.

    "We will thoroughly examine and consider the list. As far as possible the request will be fulfilled," he said.

    According to the article, the Serbian military’s request will be considered by the bilateral commission on technical and military cooperation. Its first meeting is expected to take place before the end of January.

    Belgrade turned to Moscow after Croatia announced its willingness to put US-made MGM-140 ATACMS tactical missile launchers into service with its armed forces. These are capable of hitting targets at a distance of up to 300 kilometers, sources told Kommersant.

    "The Serbian military believes that deployment of such a weapon to the Balkans would change the balance of power in the region. And they did not receive any help from those calling for Serbia to join NATO. As result, they were forced to turn to Russia," a source said.

    "Serbia will not ask for concessions, but we have reasons to expect a lot from Russia. We will not wage war against Croatia. It would be a pointless war by Serbia against NATO," President Tomislav Nikolic underscored during his meeting with Rogozin.

    The requests of the Serbian military are predictable. According to Kommersant, Serbia wants to buy medium-range air defenses like Buk and Tor missiles as well as short-range air defenses like the Pantsir-S1. Deliveries of S-300 anti-aircraft missile systems were not even discussed in Belgrade, as the Serbian defense budget cannot afford them.

    Moreover, the Serbian Defense Ministry wants to upgrade its air force fleet to include several MiG-29 jet fighters. Currently, the Serbian military operates 10 MiG-29 jets (six of them were bought from Russia in 2013), 11 MiG-21’s (they are due to be mothballed in 2018) as well as several dozen J-22 Orao aircraft.

    According to sources, if Russia and Serbia agree on the number of air defense systems and jet fighters, they will be delivered to Belgrade from the Russian Defense Ministry’s stock and they’ll subsequently be modernized. This course of action is said to be less costly for Serbia.

    Despite the fact that Moscow and Belgrade have not struck any agreement on military and technical cooperation, Ben Rhodes, national security adviser for US President Barack Obama, said: "We don't, frankly, think it's in the interests of the region for it to be seen as caught in some Cold War style, zero-sum game between the United States and Russia. That is not a constructive way, we think, for the region to be approached."

    He added that the Balkan nations should independently make decision on their future, including NATO membership.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20160115/1033205462/russian-weapons-serbia.html#ixzz3xMi6Raqc
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    Post  George1 on Sat Jan 16, 2016 2:11 am

    I thought serbia has only 4xMiG-29s. Did they buy/lease 6 additional in 2013?
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    Post  Guest on Sat Jan 16, 2016 2:17 am

    George1 wrote:I thought serbia has only 4xMiG-29s. Did they buy/lease 6 additional in 2013?

    Only 4, 3 MiG29B and 1 UB, there was a 5th too but it was lost in an accident. When its about MiG21s, most of them are out of resources already, i belive only 7 are airworthy atm.
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    Post  Viktor on Sat Jan 16, 2016 2:08 pm

    atacms are free of charge meaning US might be preparing sutuation up here of another round of showdown. Hopefully cooler heads will prevail as people of the Balkan region dont need another war.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Jan 16, 2016 3:31 pm

    Viktor wrote:atacms are free of charge meaning US might be preparing sutuation up here of another round of showdown. Hopefully cooler heads will prevail as people of the Balkan region dont need another war.

    I don't really know what that showdown would even be about especially in north parts... This is most likely just another round of dick measuring between politicians.

    Realistically only major problem in the making is increasing presence of Islamic State, AQ and similar freaks in Bosnia and especially Kosovo. And not just here, it is same problem entire Europe will face sooner rather than later.

    In that case Serbia would need AA systems, not to fight Jihadists of course but to deter USA & co from doing something stupid to protect their previous (and most likely future) pets. World changed a lot since 9/11 but that does not mean Uncle Sam will start acting rationally with regards to terrorism, I mean we all seen Arab Spring and Syria fiasco...

    Stuff we need is Buk, Tor and Pantsir. No S-300 series, it is awesome but too big, pricey, bulky and slow. Everything else needed to handle Jihadists we can make ourselves.

    Just my 2c...


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    Post  OminousSpudd on Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:11 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    OminousSpudd wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:World changed a lot since 9/11 but that does not mean Uncle Sam will start acting rationally with regards to terrorism, I mean we all seen Arab Spring and Syria fiasco...

    Suspect  Do you mean Murica's temperament changed for the better after 9\11?  I mean, that was their enabler, well and truly.

    Absolutely not, but gathering large number of nations and idiots willing to follow them into great democratic Jihad will be harder today than couple of decades ago.

    Oh okay, sorry just misinterpreted it on my end.
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    Post  Guest on Tue Mar 22, 2016 5:07 pm

    "The delivery of two Russian Mi-8MTV-5 (NATO reporting name: Hip) medium military-transport helicopters to Serbia is scheduled for April 2016, according to a Russian defense industry source. "Both helicopters are ready for delivery, which is scheduled for April 2016. Serbia will get modern and reliable modification of world-known Mi-8 transport helicopter", the source said. In September 2015, then-acting Serbian Defense Minister, Bratislav Gashich said, that the contract for two Mi-8MTV-5 military-transport helicopters would be signed in October 2015.

    Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization Serbia_about_to_take_delivery_of_two_Mi_8MTV_5_military_helicopters_640_001

    According to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute`s (SIPRI) arms transfers database, Serbia is to get both helicopters in 2016. The related contract is valued at USD25 million. Military utility transport helicopter, powered by two Klimov TV3-117VM turboshaft engines and equipped with a loading ramp instead of the clam-shell doors, an additional door and a new "dolphin nose". These helicopters are intended for the transport of goods and machinery weighing up to 4 tons, and these helicopters can be equipped with rocket-cannon armament."


    Source: http://www.airrecognition.com/index.php/archive-world-worldwide-news-air-force-aviation-aerospace-air-military-defence-industry/global-defense-security-news/global-news-2016/march/2527-serbia-about-to-take-delivery-of-two-mi-8mtv-5-military-helicopters.html
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    Post  Guest on Tue Apr 12, 2016 4:15 pm

    Two Mi17 helicopters in Kazan are being readied for Serbian Air Force, Serbian military personnel is already on spot dealing with transfer:

    Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization 12976786_10153998576488672_8198072628181760071_o

    Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization 12968005_10153998576898672_643389372529721_o
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    Post  Guest on Wed Apr 20, 2016 12:55 am

    J22 Orao testbed for possible modernisation package:

    Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization CgU7iouUkAATj7k

    Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization CgU7mOVUMAAkgyX

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    Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization Empty Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  medo on Wed Apr 20, 2016 3:16 pm

    Will they also replace the engines for J-22? AI-222-25 from Yak-130 is more powerful even without afterburner and is small enough to be installed in the place of Rolls-Royce Viper. I wonder if there is a enough space in the nose to put multimode Kopyo radar from MiG-21 Bison. That would well improve its capabilities in all weather attacks on the ground targets.
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    Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization Empty Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  Guest on Wed Apr 20, 2016 3:43 pm

    medo wrote:Will they also replace the engines for J-22? AI-222-25 from Yak-130 is more powerful even without afterburner and is small enough to be installed in the place of Rolls-Royce Viper. I wonder if there is a place in the nose to put multimode Kopyo radar from MiG-21 Bison. That would well improve its capabilities in all weather attacks on the ground targets.

    I doubt, engines are very expencive and these are quite old aircraft already, they might just overhaul Vipers if even they touch engines at all.

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