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    Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

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    Militarov
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    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  Militarov on Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:52 am

    George1 wrote:
    Militarov wrote:9.12 RF-92185 Blue14
    9.51 RF-92196 Blue75
    9.51 RF-29166 Blue101
    9.13 RF-93709 Blue04
    9.13 RF-93713 Blue31
    9.13 RF-93717 Blue10

    Borts to be delivered to Serbia

    that means:
    one MiG-29 of initial production version
    two MiG-29UB the two-seat training version of the type above
    three MiG-29S

    i wouldnt say this is a moderniazation, it seems more a middle solution for serbian air force until 2021-22 Cool

    They have 14 years of service more in them after modernisation and overhaul and it seems modernisation will be significant as they are mentioning Zhuk-ME, R-77 and even Kh-31 will be procured.
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    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  KiloGolf on Thu Dec 22, 2016 2:46 pm

    If Russia wants to keep Serbia as a strong ally they better give away more numbers and quality. If the US, Dutch, etc. can give away F-16ANGs or MLUs, I'm sure Russia could give them 24 of some refurbished Fulcrums. 6 is ridiculously low. And if manning costs is a problem for Serbia, they might want to get rid of the Oraos and Galebs altogether. Train their people in Russia and be done with it. One fast jet type is enough for their AF, the rest can be handled by say... second hand Hinds and possibly better AD. There's plenty of S-300PM components, as well as early Buks and Tors sitting in Russia or Ukraine doing nothing.

    Serbs need to be realistic (this is a hint to our smartie pants-in-chief as well).
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    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  Militarov on Thu Dec 22, 2016 6:06 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:If Russia wants to keep Serbia as a strong ally they better give away more numbers and quality. If the US, Dutch, etc. can give away F-16ANGs or MLUs, I'm sure Russia could give them 24 of some refurbished Fulcrums. 6 is ridiculously low. And if manning costs is a problem for Serbia, they might want to get rid of the Oraos and Galebs altogether. Train their people in Russia and be done with it. One fast jet type is enough for their AF, the rest can be handled by say... second hand Hinds and possibly better AD. There's plenty of S-300PM components, as well as early Buks and Tors sitting in Russia or Ukraine doing nothing.

    Serbs need to be realistic (this is a hint to our smartie pants-in-chief as well).

    Well we are paying for overhaul and modernisation, they are giving borts. Allegeldy we got major discounts as these will get Zhuk-ME and R77 after 2017. most likely. Its unrealistic expecting they will give anything really for free. Buk is in negotiations for 2018. if its to be believed, they mentioned two batteries.

    Thing is that we can perform overhaul here in Serbia on G4s and J22s,, which we cant do on 29s. And both of those can fly for quite a while more, i expect G4s to fly into 2030s most likely.
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    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  Militarov on Thu Dec 22, 2016 7:00 pm

    МиГ-29УБ /НЛ-18 (9-51A) 75/ RF-92196 , предположительно станет - 18303
    МиГ-29УБ/НЛ-18 (9-51A) 101/RF- 29166, предположительно станет - 18304
    МиГ-29A/Л-18 (9-12A) 14/ RF-92185 , предположительно станет - 18115
    МиГ-29/Л-18 (9-13) 04/RF-93709, предположительно станет - 18116
    МиГ-29/Л-18 (9-13) 10/RF-93717, предположительно станет - 18117
    МиГ-29/Л-18 (9-13) 31/RF-93713, предположительно станет - 18118

    Borts and proposed numbers in Serbian AF
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    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  ExBeobachter1987 on Fri Dec 30, 2016 12:14 am

    Militarov wrote:МиГ-29УБ /НЛ-18 (9-51A) 75/ RF-92196 , предположительно станет - 18303
    МиГ-29УБ/НЛ-18 (9-51A) 101/RF- 29166, предположительно станет - 18304
    МиГ-29A/Л-18 (9-12A) 14/ RF-92185 , предположительно станет - 18115
    МиГ-29/Л-18 (9-13) 04/RF-93709, предположительно станет - 18116
    МиГ-29/Л-18 (9-13) 10/RF-93717, предположительно станет - 18117
    МиГ-29/Л-18 (9-13) 31/RF-93713, предположительно станет - 18118

    Borts and proposed numbers in Serbian AF

    They are supposed to be emblazoned with portraits of Serb pilots killed by NATO in 1999 war.


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    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  Militarov on Fri Dec 30, 2016 12:40 am

    ExBeobachter1987 wrote:
    Militarov wrote:МиГ-29УБ /НЛ-18 (9-51A) 75/ RF-92196 , предположительно станет - 18303
    МиГ-29УБ/НЛ-18 (9-51A) 101/RF- 29166, предположительно станет - 18304
    МиГ-29A/Л-18 (9-12A) 14/ RF-92185 , предположительно станет - 18115
    МиГ-29/Л-18 (9-13) 04/RF-93709, предположительно станет - 18116
    МиГ-29/Л-18 (9-13) 10/RF-93717, предположительно станет - 18117
    МиГ-29/Л-18 (9-13) 31/RF-93713, предположительно станет - 18118

    Borts and proposed numbers in Serbian AF

    They are supposed to be emblazoned with portraits of Serb pilots killed by NATO in 1999 war.



    Not very likely. Its just an idea proposed by group of students and forum members, its not something MoD discussed. It would be highly unusual to do so actually, pilots would consider that a very bad omen, that is the reason why same bort numbers are never given either from the lost aircraft.
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    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  George1 on Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:37 am

    Government of Serbia has signed a firm contract with a European group Airbus for the purchase of nine military Airbus H145M multipurpose helicopters.

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2353156.html



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    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:31 pm

    George1 wrote:Government of Serbia has signed a firm contract with a European group Airbus for the purchase of nine military Airbus H145M multipurpose helicopters.

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2353156.html


    Like I said months ago, light helicopters from France/EU, heavy helicopters from Russia, fighter jets from Russia.
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    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  Militarov on Fri Dec 30, 2016 3:09 pm

    George1 wrote:Government of Serbia has signed a firm contract with a European group Airbus for the purchase of nine military Airbus H145M multipurpose helicopters.

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2353156.html



    Contract is shared between Military and Police however
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    Post  d_taddei2 on Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:47 am

    Militarov wrote:
    George1 wrote:Government of Serbia has signed a firm contract with a European group Airbus for the purchase of nine military Airbus H145M multipurpose helicopters.

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2353156.html



    Contract is shared between Military and Police however

    pity there buying western stuff they should have bought Ansat and/or Ansat 2RC,
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    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  Militarov on Sat Jan 28, 2017 7:23 am

    d_taddei2 wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    George1 wrote:Government of Serbia has signed a firm contract with a European group Airbus for the purchase of nine military Airbus H145M multipurpose helicopters.

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2353156.html



    Contract is shared between Military and Police however

    pity there buying western stuff they should have bought Ansat and/or Ansat 2RC,

    Well, if they ordered both medium and light helicopters from Russia that wouldnt look anything like politics Serbia is trying to lead, of so called military neutrality. So expect to see weapon systems from everywhere in Serbian inventory, like it after all was the case in Yugoslavia too. In my unit radars were of Soviet origin, yet majority of com equipment was Yugoslavian, French....US....
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    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  Militarov on Sat Jan 28, 2017 8:14 am

    Its confirmed that Belarus will gift to Serbia 8 retired MiG-29s and two "batallions" of Buk air defence system. Cost of modernisation and overhaul will be later determined by joint formed military board.

    Source: http://www.rts.rs/page/stories/ci/story/124/drustvo/2609703/sistem-buk-i-migovi-29-iz-belorusije-pregovara-se-o-s-300.html

    This should on long run mean Serbia will have 18 MiG-29s on its disposal.
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    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  calm on Sat Jan 28, 2017 8:32 pm

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    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  George1 on Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:22 am

    Militarov wrote:Its confirmed that Belarus will gift to Serbia 8 retired MiG-29s and two "batallions" of Buk air defence system. Cost of modernisation and overhaul will be later determined by joint formed military board.

    Source: http://www.rts.rs/page/stories/ci/story/124/drustvo/2609703/sistem-buk-i-migovi-29-iz-belorusije-pregovara-se-o-s-300.html

    This should on long run mean Serbia will have 18 MiG-29s on its disposal.

    Ηere also says also Serbia expects to receive two divisions of Buk SAM system

    In addition, in the future of Serbia in Minsk plans to buy air defense systems S-300V and S-300P and Belarusian military trucks and construction equipment.

    According to Djordjevic, in May this year between the two countries will be conducted negotiations on the establishment of a joint defense body.

    As explained by our blog known Serbian expert Svetozar Jokanovic, this deal is a lot of questions, and one of the top - where Serbia would find as many pilots and technicians for the new aircraft. According to him, the Belarusian MiG-29 (type 9-13), which will be transferred to Serbia, can be upgraded according to the standard MiG-29BM. In this connection, it is also interesting to note that the plans changed and in relation to those of the MiG-29, which were transferred to Serbia from Russia in 2016. Now the modernization of these aircraft will be held in Serbia on aircraft repair plant in Moma, but with the technical assistance of Russian specialists. This is a serious change in the views of the Ministry of Defence of Serbia, as originally repair and modernization have been carried out in Russia.

    Regarding SAM Svetozar Jokanovic said that to date, finally it is unclear whether an appeal is made to Russia to send two divisions SAM "Buk-M1" or one battalion SAM "Buk-M2". In addition, it is possible that the Serbian side is negotiating with Russiay and Belarus regarding the purchase of S-300B / C-300PS of availability.

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2401422.html


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    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  Militarov on Sun Jan 29, 2017 9:20 am

    George1 wrote:
    Militarov wrote:Its confirmed that Belarus will gift to Serbia 8 retired MiG-29s and two "batallions" of Buk air defence system. Cost of modernisation and overhaul will be later determined by joint formed military board.

    Source: http://www.rts.rs/page/stories/ci/story/124/drustvo/2609703/sistem-buk-i-migovi-29-iz-belorusije-pregovara-se-o-s-300.html

    This should on long run mean Serbia will have 18 MiG-29s on its disposal.

    Ηere also says also  Serbia expects to receive two divisions of Buk SAM system

    In addition, in the future of Serbia in Minsk plans to buy air defense systems S-300V and S-300P and Belarusian military trucks and construction equipment.

    According to Djordjevic, in May this year between the two countries will be conducted negotiations on the establishment of a joint defense body.

    As explained by our blog known Serbian expert Svetozar Jokanovic, this deal is a lot of questions, and one of the top - where Serbia would find as many pilots and technicians for the new aircraft. According to him, the Belarusian MiG-29 (type 9-13), which will be transferred to Serbia, can be upgraded according to the standard MiG-29BM. In this connection, it is also interesting to note that the plans changed and in relation to those of the MiG-29, which were transferred to Serbia from Russia in 2016. Now the modernization of these aircraft will be held in Serbia on aircraft repair plant in Moma, but with the technical assistance of Russian specialists. This is a serious change in the views of the Ministry of Defence of Serbia, as originally repair and modernization have been carried out in Russia.

    Regarding SAM Svetozar Jokanovic said that to date, finally it is unclear whether an appeal is made to Russia to send two divisions SAM "Buk-M1" or one battalion SAM "Buk-M2". In addition, it is possible that the Serbian side is negotiating with Russiay and Belarus regarding the purchase of S-300B / C-300PS of availability.

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2401422.html

    Yes, two Buk batallions, which should mean two batteries, probably 12 launchers.
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    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  Isos on Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:32 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    George1 wrote:
    Militarov wrote:Its confirmed that Belarus will gift to Serbia 8 retired MiG-29s and two "batallions" of Buk air defence system. Cost of modernisation and overhaul will be later determined by joint formed military board.

    Source: http://www.rts.rs/page/stories/ci/story/124/drustvo/2609703/sistem-buk-i-migovi-29-iz-belorusije-pregovara-se-o-s-300.html

    This should on long run mean Serbia will have 18 MiG-29s on its disposal.

    Ηere also says also  Serbia expects to receive two divisions of Buk SAM system

    In addition, in the future of Serbia in Minsk plans to buy air defense systems S-300V and S-300P and Belarusian military trucks and construction equipment.

    According to Djordjevic, in May this year between the two countries will be conducted negotiations on the establishment of a joint defense body.

    As explained by our blog known Serbian expert Svetozar Jokanovic, this deal is a lot of questions, and one of the top - where Serbia would find as many pilots and technicians for the new aircraft. According to him, the Belarusian MiG-29 (type 9-13), which will be transferred to Serbia, can be upgraded according to the standard MiG-29BM. In this connection, it is also interesting to note that the plans changed and in relation to those of the MiG-29, which were transferred to Serbia from Russia in 2016. Now the modernization of these aircraft will be held in Serbia on aircraft repair plant in Moma, but with the technical assistance of Russian specialists. This is a serious change in the views of the Ministry of Defence of Serbia, as originally repair and modernization have been carried out in Russia.

    Regarding SAM Svetozar Jokanovic said that to date, finally it is unclear whether an appeal is made to Russia to send two divisions SAM "Buk-M1" or one battalion SAM "Buk-M2". In addition, it is possible that the Serbian side is negotiating with Russiay and Belarus regarding the purchase of S-300B / C-300PS of availability.

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2401422.html

    Yes, two Buk batallions, which should mean two batteries, probably 12 launchers.

    https://sputniknews.com/europe/201701281050097038-serbia-get-belarus-fighters-mig/
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    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  Isos on Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:03 pm

    Do they have enough money to operate all of them ? If not, better spend money on social project.
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    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  Militarov on Wed Feb 01, 2017 10:17 pm

    Isos wrote:Do they have enough money to operate all of them ? If not, better spend money on social project.

    With current budget for the airforce? No. Those 3 Mig-29s that are flying atm booked flying hours of about half what MiG-29 is projected to do for a year.
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    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  George1 on Mon Feb 06, 2017 8:26 am

    Serbian Defense Ministry to Receive Six MiG-29 Jets From Russia by May


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    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  Militarov on Mon Feb 06, 2017 6:08 pm

    George1 wrote:Serbian Defense Ministry to Receive Six MiG-29 Jets From Russia by May

    Funny part is that they will be accepted by Moma Stanojlovic "AERONAUTICAL PLANT" for modernisation in cooperation with Russians. That is going to be fun. Took them 4 years to overhaul one MiG-21BiS.
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    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  Militarov on Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:16 pm

    Retarded if true, Serbian MoD allegedly claims they "99% decided to modernise J-22 Orao". If you wonder why retarded, its quite easy, last spares for this aircraft were produced 25 years ago, industrial base to restart such production do not exist. And our current cappacity to overhaul them, is more or less 1 per 3 years. Modernisation of such aircraft is beyond logic from basically every stance, especially taking in count fact its estimated we have 6 to 8 of them eligible for overhaul in total.
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    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  George1 Today at 10:11 am

    Brothers-in-Arms: Russia Helps Serbia to Modernize Its Air Force Fleet

    Serbia with Moscow’s aid is set to modernize its air force fleet, though apart from relying on Russia’s MiG jet fighter aircraft it also depends on its own potential, which it accumulated since the time of Yugoslavia.

    Currently, Serbia awaits the delivery of six Russian MiG-29s, which the country will receive on very preferential terms, as it will pay only for repairs and upgrades.

    According to the Russian Defense Ministry, the cost will amount to 185 million euros.

    The exact date of this delivery will be known only after the relevant documents are signed by Vladimir Putin and all the technical details are mutually agreed upon.

    However, apart from relying on the delivery of Russian jets, Serbia has a few of its own aircraft that need to be modernized.

    The light attack and training aircraft Galeb and the twin-engine, subsonic ground-attack and reconnaissance aircraft Soko J-22 Orao, known for being the first in the history of Yugoslav aviation to overcome the sound barrier, are set for some upgrades soon.

    “We need to modernize Orao to support land units and as a means of distance fighting,” head of the defense technologies department at the Serbian Defense Ministry Major-General Dr. Bojan Zrnic told Sputnik in an interview.

    He further said that since from a technical point of view the process of modernization of Galeb differs little from the modernization of Orao, the ministry is close to deciding on the fighter jets first.

    According to the head, presently they are awaiting the final decision, as modernization of Orao will include the development of new types of air weapons operating on a principle of standoff.

    The Orao aircraft was first produced in the 80s and ceased in 1992 but according to the major general it is still early to write it off completely.

    “Experts came to a conclusion that the service life of the jet can be extended to up to 40 years and possibly for another eight years, so in that way Orao can serve up to 48 years,” Zrnic said.

    He further added that the modernization of each aircraft can cost on average from 1 to 8 million euros depending on its condition.

    An upgraded version of the Orao jet equipped with laser-guided bombs, modern air-to-surface and air-to-air missiles and new reconnaissance equipment was revealed in April 2016 at Serbian aerodrome Batajnica.

    https://sputniknews.com/military/201703281052054880-russia-helps-serbia-modernize-air-force/


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