Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

Depend on the planes for modernization. If their structure is still in good shape and could serve for a decade or two, than it is worth to replace them. After all AI-222-25 working without afterburners will burn less fuel than old Vipers and considering they are without afterburners, they will take less space, so more space for additional fuel. More powerful engines also bring more power for other subsystems and for installing any additional targeting system, be it outside targeting pod or inside built radar or EO complex like SOLT-25 will need additional power supply. Just replacing old dials and knobs with new LCDs is not real modernization or improvement in capabilities. I wonder if Serbia will at least modernize FCS computer with something similar to SVP-24 with GLONASS satellite navigation to improve bombing capabilities with dumb bombs.

medo wrote:Depend on the planes for modernization. If their structure is still in good shape and could serve for a decade or two, than it is worth to replace them. After all AI-222-25 working without afterburners will burn less fuel than old Vipers and considering they are without afterburners, they will take less space, so more space for additional fuel. More powerful engines also bring more power for other subsystems and for installing any additional targeting system, be it outside targeting pod or inside built radar or EO complex like SOLT-25 will need additional power supply. Just replacing old dials and knobs with new LCDs is not real modernization or improvement in capabilities. I wonder if Serbia will at least modernize FCS computer with something similar to SVP-24 with GLONASS satellite navigation to improve bombing capabilities with dumb bombs.

Well MoD does not have money. This might even be just pre election bullshit. I dont see much point in modernising J22 at all tbh but oh well... better something than nothing.

But even if this modernisation gets performed i feel it will be just avionics modernisation. They added day/night TV channel, capability to carry recon pods, TV/Laser guided ammunition...

Thank you, Now video show a little more about modernization. It have thermal imager and laser range finder under the cockpit to be used with gun and unguided rockets and bombs in day and night time. Considering that central display also show a map, I assume it is equipped with satellite navigation, most probably GPS as equipment is most probably imported from the West. They also install wingtip launching rails for R-60 AAMs for self defense, although it would be better to install R-73 AAMs, which have longer range and are more capable.

Notice A10C stick

Apparently next two helicopters to be obtained for Serbian Air Force are most likely going to be light helicopters with secondary combat role. For now unidentified source from the Ministry of Defence said its most likely to be Airbus H-145M.



As shown here: https://www.airbushelicopters.com/website/en/ref/H145M_47.html

franco wrote:Russia to transfer 6 Mig-29's to the Serbian Air Force. The Serbians to have them overhauled and upgraded prior to service.

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2265939.html

Nothing of it is yet official tho. But one of my friends from the AF told me that there were negotiations for some time now but that our side was not happy with the price requested by Russians. Also if the agreement gets signed MiG-29s will most likely be flown in by Russians during next year BARS exercise and left to remain in Serbia after it.

Serbian PM in Moscow visited hangar where 6 selected MiG-29s for Serbia are being stationed atm

Seems like old mig's. Do you know the price of the contract ?

BTW, I ask this on the Mig 29 thread but no one answerd : Why didn't they buy the hungarian Mig's ? They offered 18 MiG-29B and 6 MiG-29 UB for 50 million $, the price of 1 su-30. I'm sure Russia would have modernised them for another 20 million.

Isos wrote:Seems like old mig's. Do you know the price of the contract ?

BTW, I ask this on the Mig 29 thread but no one answerd : Why didn't they buy the hungarian Mig's ? They offered 18 MiG-29B and 6 MiG-29 UB for 50 million $, the price of 1 su-30. I'm sure Russia would have modernised them for another 20 million.

Yes, second hand MiGs, one 9.12, tree 9.13 and two 9.51 if we are to belive what i saw on Serbian military forum, all of the fighters were used by 31st Guards in Milerovo Airbase. Initial price is 50 mil USD, complete modernisation, equipment and armaments will peak up to 260 million though next years as they will be modernised though few phases, first phase during 2017.

It was quite long ago but i belive it was mix of reasons, Hungarian machines were in bad state, old, out of resources, no additional equipment, we did not have the money, we barely overhauled MiG-29s in 2008. And modernisation of those would cost 20 mil... but per aircraft . Also if its to belive the rumors Hungarians were not very eager to sells us anything. Also if i recall Hungary at the end offered only 8 for sale.

9.12 RF-92185 Blue14
9.51 RF-92196 Blue75
9.51 RF-29166 Blue101
9.13 RF-93709 Blue04
9.13 RF-93713 Blue31
9.13 RF-93717 Blue10

Borts to be delivered to Serbia

George1 wrote:

Militarov wrote:9.12 RF-92185 Blue14
9.51 RF-92196 Blue75
9.51 RF-29166 Blue101
9.13 RF-93709 Blue04
9.13 RF-93713 Blue31
9.13 RF-93717 Blue10

Borts to be delivered to Serbia

that means:
one MiG-29 of initial production version
two MiG-29UB the two-seat training version of the type above
three MiG-29S

i wouldnt say this is a moderniazation, it seems more a middle solution for serbian air force until 2021-22

They have 14 years of service more in them after modernisation and overhaul and it seems modernisation will be significant as they are mentioning Zhuk-ME, R-77 and even Kh-31 will be procured.

If Russia wants to keep Serbia as a strong ally they better give away more numbers and quality. If the US, Dutch, etc. can give away F-16ANGs or MLUs, I'm sure Russia could give them 24 of some refurbished Fulcrums. 6 is ridiculously low. And if manning costs is a problem for Serbia, they might want to get rid of the Oraos and Galebs altogether. Train their people in Russia and be done with it. One fast jet type is enough for their AF, the rest can be handled by say... second hand Hinds and possibly better AD. There's plenty of S-300PM components, as well as early Buks and Tors sitting in Russia or Ukraine doing nothing.

Serbs need to be realistic (this is a hint to our smartie pants-in-chief as well).

KiloGolf wrote:If Russia wants to keep Serbia as a strong ally they better give away more numbers and quality. If the US, Dutch, etc. can give away F-16ANGs or MLUs, I'm sure Russia could give them 24 of some refurbished Fulcrums. 6 is ridiculously low. And if manning costs is a problem for Serbia, they might want to get rid of the Oraos and Galebs altogether. Train their people in Russia and be done with it. One fast jet type is enough for their AF, the rest can be handled by say... second hand Hinds and possibly better AD. There's plenty of S-300PM components, as well as early Buks and Tors sitting in Russia or Ukraine doing nothing.

Serbs need to be realistic (this is a hint to our smartie pants-in-chief as well).

Well we are paying for overhaul and modernisation, they are giving borts. Allegeldy we got major discounts as these will get Zhuk-ME and R77 after 2017. most likely. Its unrealistic expecting they will give anything really for free. Buk is in negotiations for 2018. if its to be believed, they mentioned two batteries.

Thing is that we can perform overhaul here in Serbia on G4s and J22s,, which we cant do on 29s. And both of those can fly for quite a while more, i expect G4s to fly into 2030s most likely.

МиГ-29УБ /НЛ-18 (9-51A) 75/ RF-92196 , предположительно станет - 18303
МиГ-29УБ/НЛ-18 (9-51A) 101/RF- 29166, предположительно станет - 18304
МиГ-29A/Л-18 (9-12A) 14/ RF-92185 , предположительно станет - 18115
МиГ-29/Л-18 (9-13) 04/RF-93709, предположительно станет - 18116
МиГ-29/Л-18 (9-13) 10/RF-93717, предположительно станет - 18117
МиГ-29/Л-18 (9-13) 31/RF-93713, предположительно станет - 18118

Borts and proposed numbers in Serbian AF

Militarov wrote:МиГ-29УБ /НЛ-18 (9-51A) 75/ RF-92196 , предположительно станет - 18303
МиГ-29УБ/НЛ-18 (9-51A) 101/RF- 29166, предположительно станет - 18304
МиГ-29A/Л-18 (9-12A) 14/ RF-92185 , предположительно станет - 18115
МиГ-29/Л-18 (9-13) 04/RF-93709, предположительно станет - 18116
МиГ-29/Л-18 (9-13) 10/RF-93717, предположительно станет - 18117
МиГ-29/Л-18 (9-13) 31/RF-93713, предположительно станет - 18118

Borts and proposed numbers in Serbian AF

They are supposed to be emblazoned with portraits of Serb pilots killed by NATO in 1999 war.

ExBeobachter1987 wrote:

Militarov wrote:МиГ-29УБ /НЛ-18 (9-51A) 75/ RF-92196 , предположительно станет - 18303
МиГ-29УБ/НЛ-18 (9-51A) 101/RF- 29166, предположительно станет - 18304
МиГ-29A/Л-18 (9-12A) 14/ RF-92185 , предположительно станет - 18115
МиГ-29/Л-18 (9-13) 04/RF-93709, предположительно станет - 18116
МиГ-29/Л-18 (9-13) 10/RF-93717, предположительно станет - 18117
МиГ-29/Л-18 (9-13) 31/RF-93713, предположительно станет - 18118

Borts and proposed numbers in Serbian AF

They are supposed to be emblazoned with portraits of Serb pilots killed by NATO in 1999 war.

Not very likely. Its just an idea proposed by group of students and forum members, its not something MoD discussed. It would be highly unusual to do so actually, pilots would consider that a very bad omen, that is the reason why same bort numbers are never given either from the lost aircraft.