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    Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

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    George1

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    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  George1 on Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:49 pm

    Pantsyr-1 for guarding air bases and Tor-M1/Buk-M1 for ground forces would be good for Serbia


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    Militarov

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    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  Militarov on Sat Feb 20, 2016 8:07 am

    George1 wrote:Pantsyr-1 for guarding air bases and Tor-M1/Buk-M1 for ground forces would be good for Serbia

    Serbs did express interest in Buk, S300 and Pancir S, however i dont think there is money available for any of those. Seems our Kubs will be modernised, Nevas already went though some limited modernisations and overhauls to S-125M1T standard which allows crew to operate them further away from actual radar and launchers, 500m if i recall. There were few times talks about new fighters and air defence Systems with Russia but there is simply not enough money. Ideally we would replace Nevas asap, modernise Kubs and get one SHORAD system to get rid of old systems like BOV3 and 9K31 Strela-1 as they are getting obsolete.

    However its not secret that some high ranking officers from Serbian 250th air defence brigade were in France to visit their units of same kind and they were presented Aster system possibly with goal of selling it to us.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  Militarov on Sun Mar 20, 2016 10:38 am

    Serbian army during june will accept into service two used-second hand 3D radars from Slovenia. This was annoynced by chief of defence technology of Serbian MoD general-m Bojan Zrnić. US built radars AN/TPS-70 are in good shape and well maintained, also they are newer than radars of same type that Serbian Army operates atm, which were obtained during 80s. Radars were bought on international tender, with special permissions (Probably US blessing).



    Slovenia replaced them with Ground Master 403 built by Thales-Raytheon Systems group due to high operation costs.


    Source: http://www.b92.net/info/vesti/index.php?yyyy=2016&mm=03&dd=19&nav_category=12&nav_id=1109749
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    Militarov

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    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  Militarov on Tue Mar 22, 2016 5:07 pm

    "The delivery of two Russian Mi-8MTV-5 (NATO reporting name: Hip) medium military-transport helicopters to Serbia is scheduled for April 2016, according to a Russian defense industry source. "Both helicopters are ready for delivery, which is scheduled for April 2016. Serbia will get modern and reliable modification of world-known Mi-8 transport helicopter", the source said. In September 2015, then-acting Serbian Defense Minister, Bratislav Gashich said, that the contract for two Mi-8MTV-5 military-transport helicopters would be signed in October 2015.



    According to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute`s (SIPRI) arms transfers database, Serbia is to get both helicopters in 2016. The related contract is valued at USD25 million. Military utility transport helicopter, powered by two Klimov TV3-117VM turboshaft engines and equipped with a loading ramp instead of the clam-shell doors, an additional door and a new "dolphin nose". These helicopters are intended for the transport of goods and machinery weighing up to 4 tons, and these helicopters can be equipped with rocket-cannon armament."


    Source: http://www.airrecognition.com/index.php/archive-world-worldwide-news-air-force-aviation-aerospace-air-military-defence-industry/global-defense-security-news/global-news-2016/march/2527-serbia-about-to-take-delivery-of-two-mi-8mtv-5-military-helicopters.html
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    Militarov

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    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  Militarov on Tue Apr 12, 2016 4:15 pm

    Two Mi17 helicopters in Kazan are being readied for Serbian Air Force, Serbian military personnel is already on spot dealing with transfer:



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    Militarov

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    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  Militarov on Wed Apr 20, 2016 12:55 am

    J22 Orao testbed for possible modernisation package:





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    medo

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    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  medo on Wed Apr 20, 2016 3:16 pm

    Will they also replace the engines for J-22? AI-222-25 from Yak-130 is more powerful even without afterburner and is small enough to be installed in the place of Rolls-Royce Viper. I wonder if there is a enough space in the nose to put multimode Kopyo radar from MiG-21 Bison. That would well improve its capabilities in all weather attacks on the ground targets.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  Militarov on Wed Apr 20, 2016 3:43 pm

    medo wrote:Will they also replace the engines for J-22? AI-222-25 from Yak-130 is more powerful even without afterburner and is small enough to be installed in the place of Rolls-Royce Viper. I wonder if there is a place in the nose to put multimode Kopyo radar from MiG-21 Bison. That would well improve its capabilities in all weather attacks on the ground targets.

    I doubt, engines are very expencive and these are quite old aircraft already, they might just overhaul Vipers if even they touch engines at all.
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    medo

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    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  medo on Wed Apr 20, 2016 5:07 pm

    Depend on the planes for modernization. If their structure is still in good shape and could serve for a decade or two, than it is worth to replace them. After all AI-222-25 working without afterburners will burn less fuel than old Vipers and considering they are without afterburners, they will take less space, so more space for additional fuel. More powerful engines also bring more power for other subsystems and for installing any additional targeting system, be it outside targeting pod or inside built radar or EO complex like SOLT-25 will need additional power supply. Just replacing old dials and knobs with new LCDs is not real modernization or improvement in capabilities. I wonder if Serbia will at least modernize FCS computer with something similar to SVP-24 with GLONASS satellite navigation to improve bombing capabilities with dumb bombs.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  Militarov on Wed Apr 20, 2016 5:29 pm

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    Militarov

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    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  Militarov on Wed Apr 20, 2016 8:28 pm

    medo wrote:Depend on the planes for modernization. If their structure is still in good shape and could serve for a decade or two, than it is worth to replace them. After all AI-222-25 working without afterburners will burn less fuel than old Vipers and considering they are without afterburners, they will take less space, so more space for additional fuel. More powerful engines also bring more power for other subsystems and for installing any additional targeting system, be it outside targeting pod or inside built radar or EO complex like SOLT-25 will need additional power supply. Just replacing old dials and knobs with new LCDs is not real modernization or improvement in capabilities. I wonder if Serbia will at least modernize FCS computer with something similar to SVP-24 with GLONASS satellite navigation to improve bombing capabilities with dumb bombs.

    Well MoD does not have money. This might even be just pre election bullshit. I dont see much point in modernising J22 at all tbh but oh well... better something than nothing.

    But even if this modernisation gets performed i feel it will be just avionics modernisation. They added day/night TV channel, capability to carry recon pods, TV/Laser guided ammunition...


    Last edited by Militarov on Wed Apr 20, 2016 8:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    medo

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    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  medo on Wed Apr 20, 2016 8:38 pm

    Thank you, Now video show a little more about modernization. It have thermal imager and laser range finder under the cockpit to be used with gun and unguided rockets and bombs in day and night time. Considering that central display also show a map, I assume it is equipped with satellite navigation, most probably GPS as equipment is most probably imported from the West. They also install wingtip launching rails for R-60 AAMs for self defense, although it would be better to install R-73 AAMs, which have longer range and are more capable.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  Militarov on Wed Apr 20, 2016 8:42 pm



    Notice A10C stick Smile
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    George1

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    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  George1 on Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:19 am

    Serbian Air Force received two new Mi-17V-5 - the first time in 35 years!! russia





    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1989575.html


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    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  marat on Tue Jul 05, 2016 11:02 pm

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    Militarov

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    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  Militarov on Fri Oct 14, 2016 9:44 pm

    Apparently next two helicopters to be obtained for Serbian Air Force are most likely going to be light helicopters with secondary combat role. For now unidentified source from the Ministry of Defence said its most likely to be Airbus H-145M.



    As shown here: https://www.airbushelicopters.com/website/en/ref/H145M_47.html
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    franco

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    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  franco on Sat Nov 19, 2016 10:09 pm

    Russia to transfer 6 Mig-29's to the Serbian Air Force. The Serbians to have them overhauled and upgraded prior to service.

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2265939.html
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    Militarov

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    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  Militarov on Sat Nov 19, 2016 11:01 pm

    franco wrote:Russia to transfer 6 Mig-29's to the Serbian Air Force. The Serbians to have them overhauled and upgraded prior to service.

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2265939.html

    Nothing of it is yet official tho. But one of my friends from the AF told me that there were negotiations for some time now but that our side was not happy with the price requested by Russians. Also if the agreement gets signed MiG-29s will most likely be flown in by Russians during next year BARS exercise and left to remain in Serbia after it.
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    George1

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    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  George1 on Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:46 am

    Note bmpd. According to our blog sources in Serbia, after the delivery of the six MiG-29 and the proposed renovation MiG-29, registration 18101, air force plan to have a serviceable 10 MiG-29 and two MiG-21UM. Deliveries of Russian aircraft are scheduled for spring 2017.

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2336152.html


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    Militarov

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    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  Militarov on Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:48 pm



    Serbian PM in Moscow visited hangar where 6 selected MiG-29s for Serbia are being stationed atm
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    Militarov

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    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  Militarov on Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:49 pm

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    Isos

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    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  Isos on Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:18 pm

    Seems like old mig's. Do you know the price of the contract ?

    BTW, I ask this on the Mig 29 thread but no one answerd : Why didn't they buy the hungarian Mig's ? They offered 18 MiG-29B and 6 MiG-29 UB for 50 million $, the price of 1 su-30. I'm sure Russia would have modernised them for another 20 million.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  Militarov on Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:48 pm

    Isos wrote:Seems like old mig's. Do you know the price of the contract ?

    BTW, I ask this on the Mig 29 thread but no one answerd : Why didn't they buy the hungarian Mig's ? They offered 18 MiG-29B and 6 MiG-29 UB for 50 million $, the price of 1 su-30. I'm sure Russia would have modernised them for another 20 million.

    Yes, second hand MiGs, one 9.12, tree 9.13 and two 9.51 if we are to belive what i saw on Serbian military forum, all of the fighters were used by 31st Guards in Milerovo Airbase. Initial price is 50 mil USD, complete modernisation, equipment and armaments will peak up to 260 million though next years as they will be modernised though few phases, first phase during 2017.

    It was quite long ago but i belive it was mix of reasons, Hungarian machines were in bad state, old, out of resources, no additional equipment, we did not have the money, we barely overhauled MiG-29s in 2008. And modernisation of those would cost 20 mil... but per aircraft Smile. Also if its to belive the rumors Hungarians were not very eager to sells us anything. Also if i recall Hungary at the end offered only 8 for sale.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  Militarov on Thu Dec 22, 2016 7:53 am

    9.12 RF-92185 Blue14
    9.51 RF-92196 Blue75
    9.51 RF-29166 Blue101
    9.13 RF-93709 Blue04
    9.13 RF-93713 Blue31
    9.13 RF-93717 Blue10

    Borts to be delivered to Serbia
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    George1

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    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  George1 on Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:04 am

    Militarov wrote:9.12 RF-92185 Blue14
    9.51 RF-92196 Blue75
    9.51 RF-29166 Blue101
    9.13 RF-93709 Blue04
    9.13 RF-93713 Blue31
    9.13 RF-93717 Blue10

    Borts to be delivered to Serbia

    that means:
    one MiG-29 of initial production version
    two MiG-29UB the two-seat training version of the type above
    three MiG-29S

    i wouldnt say this is a moderniazation, it seems more a middle solution for serbian air force until 2021-22 Cool


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