Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Share
    avatar
    BM-21

    Posts : 44
    Points : 46
    Join date : 2017-09-30

    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  BM-21 on Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:37 pm

    SturmGuard wrote:
    BM-21 wrote:
    Calm down croat, I wasn't insulting anyone on this forum before you decided that it would be appropriate to abuse someone because your narrative of the events doesn't match the reality.
    So you're using the bullshit 55% figure who no one takes seriously? Using Vucic's figures to counter my arguments is idiotic.
    About the "12 years straight..." you think that all this ended when Vucic was elected to power? You think that Vucic is a guy Serbia needs? Don't speak on behalf of Serbs.



    Vučić figures? So, the election comitee members, from each party, that were present on each electoral place, and who signed the reports, are part of a grand conspiracy by Aleksandar Vučić himself?


    Even better, I should now ask you how do you imagine Serbia terminating EUAA, SOFA, IPAP, NATO office in MOD? Do you have any idea of agreements signed and ratified before Vučić ascended to power? Do you have any clue which countries are top trading partners, who owns most of Serbian economy, and that little detail about Serbia being landlocked by NATO states and NATO airspace?


    We could easily determine whose narrative matches the reality better. Something you are not so eager to do. You haven't presented a single argument, actually.

    By all means, please vote for "russophile" Dveri, you are such a huge russophile Serb. I am fully convinced that 90% of Serbs would become the greatest Amerophiles if USA were to withdraw from Kosovo and stop recognising it/supporting Albanians.


    If I lived in Serbia than I would not bother voting. Because voting is like admitting that you are being sucked in. That's why the turnout rate is always low allowing vucic to remain in power despite having a support base of no more than 1.5 million people many of whom are frightened pensioners. As for vucic's cunningness, i'd like to say that it's not very difficult to rule a nation where the majority of people are morons and don't open their mouth as you said. The few intelligent people are being held back by the dumbed-down 80-90%.

    As for the Russophile accusation, if it bothers you then that's your own problem. Much better to side with a brotherly nation than to side with Germans and invaders as in the case of your people.

    SturmGuard

    Posts : 157
    Points : 162
    Join date : 2015-08-19

    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  SturmGuard on Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:48 pm

    BM-21 wrote:

    If I lived in Serbia than I would not bother voting. Because voting is like admitting that you are being sucked in. That's why the turnout rate is always low allowing vucic to remain in power despite having a support base of no more than 1.5 million people many of whom are frightened pensioners. As for vucic's cunningness, i'd like to say that it's not very difficult to rule a nation where the majority of people are morons and don't open their mouth as you said. The few intelligent people are being held back by the dumbed-down 80-90%.

    As for the Russophile accusation, if it bothers you then that's your own problem. Much better to side with a brotherly nation than to side with Germans and invaders as in the case of your people.

    Would I be posting here if I weren't a Russophile, and were a Germanophile/NATO fanboy?

    So, you are diaspora individual insulting and lecturing people in Serbia on how they should vote and live their lives? Not commendable, really.

    If you truly are a Russophile Serb and detest Vučić, you might want to explain why United Russia supported him explicitly, called out the protestors and "opposition", why Russia only started military exercises with Serbia under Vučić in 2014 (NATO started in 2004, and still does 4x as much compared to Russia) and why would they send military and humanitarian aid?

    Because none of that happened during those who were in charge before Vučić was, and most definitely wouldn't happen if the likes of Janković, Jeremić, Tadić, Šutanovac and other NATO stooges returned to power. But you are free to present your candidate for a "Russian-allied" Serbia.

    You might want to check upon Serbina-Russian trade, economic cooperation, investments, and Russian media presence, too, in the last 5 years. There might be a stronger Russian presence in the future, seeing how USA prepared additional funds for propaganda campaign in Serbia and David Petraeus is planning on new media acquisitions.


    The time period between Vučić winning the election and lesbo goblin being proclaimed as PM is very indicative, as are 3 separate US delegations of different level visiting Balkan during that time. I am telling you, you don't even have a fraction of the big picture in mind, not to mention how limited the maneuvering space of Serbia is now.
    avatar
    mack8

    Posts : 957
    Points : 1017
    Join date : 2013-08-02

    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  mack8 on Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:11 pm

    avatar
    Airman

    Posts : 330
    Points : 374
    Join date : 2016-10-15
    Location : Turkey

    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  Airman on Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:36 pm





    avatar
    George1

    Posts : 10921
    Points : 11400
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  George1 on Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:23 pm



    _________________
    "There's no smoke without fire.", Georgy Zhukov

    avatar
    d_taddei2

    Posts : 1099
    Points : 1267
    Join date : 2013-05-11
    Location : Scotland UK

    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  d_taddei2 on Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:37 pm

    Does anyone know what level/variant was delivered and what level they will upgrade to?  Heard reports of SM level. Some sources state 4+gen. Some to SMT/M2.
    avatar
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 5920
    Points : 6024
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:47 pm

    d_taddei2 wrote:Does anyone know what level/variant was delivered and what level they will upgrade to?  Heard reports of SM level. Some sources state 4+gen. Some to SMT/M2.

    Don't know but I don't think it matters that much. All we need them for is air policing and keeping pilots certified for supersonic flight. With these we are covered for couple of decades easy.

    SAM systems is what it's all about.

    What I would want to see is squadron or two of Yak-130 in combat version (if UAC ever get around to making one) but Yak-130 in standard edition + SAMs will do just fine for whatever might happen here.
    avatar
    miketheterrible

    Posts : 1655
    Points : 1655
    Join date : 2016-11-06

    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  miketheterrible on Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:27 pm

    What are you guys sporting for an AD anyway?
    avatar
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 5920
    Points : 6024
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:13 am

    miketheterrible wrote:What are you guys sporting for an AD anyway?

    S-125 Neva and 2K12 Kub

    Waiting for those BUKs to finally arrive (maybe something even bigger but BUKs will do just fine)

    They would solve max altitude problem we had during 99, we were 10km short

    Everyone is talking about S-300 but BUK is more than enough, problem was altitude, not max distance

    avatar
    miketheterrible

    Posts : 1655
    Points : 1655
    Join date : 2016-11-06

    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  miketheterrible on Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:37 am

    Yeah, Buk has around over 70K ft. So that's enough to bring down a globalhawk.

    Any kind of plans for newer SHORADS?
    avatar
    AlfaT8

    Posts : 1468
    Points : 1469
    Join date : 2013-02-02

    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  AlfaT8 on Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:40 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:What are you guys sporting for an AD anyway?

    S-125 Neva and 2K12 Kub

    Waiting for those BUKs to finally arrive (maybe something even bigger but BUKs will do just fine)

    They would solve max altitude problem we had during 99, we were 10km short

    Everyone is talking about S-300 but BUK is more than enough, problem was altitude, not max distance


    BUKs would be excellent, would also be good to have Pantsirs or even Tunguskas for point defense.
    avatar
    d_taddei2

    Posts : 1099
    Points : 1267
    Join date : 2013-05-11
    Location : Scotland UK

    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  d_taddei2 on Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:05 am

    I quite agree PapaDragon combat multi role yak-130 are sufficient but now migs are on the scene I would say mig-29 and replace remaining aircraft with yak-130 and 6-8 mi-35 and your done.
    AD front I believe BUK and Tunguska was mentioned along with its current upgraded
    s-125, Kub, and sa-13  is ok.
    Not sure if buk will replace kub or not as kub have been upgraded not so long ago. I would think that Tunguska would replace bofors.

    For future upgrade sa-13(or see below long term) and simple upgrade of S-125 mounted on T-55 they have in storage and addition of another missile as is common practice when mounting the system in this manner something i am surprised they havent done yet. Replace Sa-9 and praga with a mix of strelets and mounted zu-23/ZOM1 and both this and strelets could be mounted on the Sa-9  (Brdm-2) and praga a simple replacement of weapons only keeping chassis these systems would be more than enough and improve their AD to a good level. They of course if wanted could also purchase some zsu 23-4M4(a mix of these and Tunguska replacing bofors) to which I think a mix of the three systems mentioned would be best option.  Exiting systems can be kept in reserve.

    Long term they could slowly replace manpads with Verba and the sa-13 could be replaced eventually by Sonsa -R yet again just a matter of replacing the missile system and using the MT-LB chassis of the sa-13. As for s-300 too expensive unless Russia donates or sells cheaply I doubt they will get it. But what I mentioned above I would imagine they could get cheaper than buying S-300 and it would be more than enough. Of course there will come a time S-300 might be supplied but likely not within a decade.

    Forgot to mention that current yak -130 I believe can deliver munitions as I believe Bangladesh is using it as such in a combat role. Although I believe that yak hasn't specifically designed a dedicated combat version yet. But they need get a move on and get a version many sales opportunities to be had if they do.
    avatar
    Godric

    Posts : 478
    Points : 500
    Join date : 2015-04-30
    Location : Alba (Scotland)

    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  Godric on Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:10 pm

    if they could mount the bofors gun on a truck or a BMP 1 they would be quite effective as a ground fire support
    avatar
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 5920
    Points : 6024
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:19 pm

    Godric wrote:if they could mount the bofors gun on a truck or a BMP 1 they would be quite effective as a ground fire support

    Oh dude, way ahead of you there. This thing has been working the infantry for decades:
    avatar
    d_taddei2

    Posts : 1099
    Points : 1267
    Join date : 2013-05-11
    Location : Scotland UK

    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  d_taddei2 on Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:00 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Godric wrote:if they could mount the bofors gun on a truck or a BMP 1 they would be quite effective as a ground fire support

    Oh dude, way ahead of you there. This thing has been working the infantry for decades:

    how many are in service? i believe these are 20mm cannons? its not bad system. But will they build more?

    reason for bofors is that its another calibre that they could get rid of, stream lining calibre sizes in the forces.
    avatar
    Militarov

    Posts : 5639
    Points : 5680
    Join date : 2015-09-02
    Location : Serbia

    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  Militarov on Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:41 am

    d_taddei2 wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Godric wrote:if they could mount the bofors gun on a truck or a BMP 1 they would be quite effective as a ground fire support

    Oh dude, way ahead of you there. This thing has been working the infantry for decades:

    how many are in service? i believe these are 20mm cannons? its not bad system. But will they build more?

    reason for bofors is that its another calibre that they could get rid of, stream lining calibre sizes in the forces.

    Yes, 3x20mm, BOV-3. Not very... great system to be honest. It was never really finished product, had many issues, today only few are remaining in service and not with the army. They are being converted into recon and command variants.

    And no, last example was built 3 decades ago.
    avatar
    Cyberspec

    Posts : 2241
    Points : 2406
    Join date : 2011-08-08
    Location : Terra Australis

    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  Cyberspec on Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:39 am

    Godric wrote:if they could mount the bofors gun on a truck or a BMP 1 they would be quite effective as a ground fire support


    There's always the PASARS-16 as an option  Cool



    avatar
    d_taddei2

    Posts : 1099
    Points : 1267
    Join date : 2013-05-11
    Location : Scotland UK

    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  d_taddei2 on Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:01 am

    Cyberspec wrote:
    Godric wrote:if they could mount the bofors gun on a truck or a BMP 1 they would be quite effective as a ground fire support


    There's always the PASARS-16 as an option  Cool





    Not bad. But like most serbian systems it will be filled with a mix of components from various countries and will it make it into production? Using zsu-23-4 would likely be cheaper as most are in storage in Russia and upgrading them to zsu -23-4M. Russia I presume are looking to sell these off. Or cheaper option buy zu-23-2 ZOM1 etc then mount it on variety of vehicles that they already have in stock.
    avatar
    Godric

    Posts : 478
    Points : 500
    Join date : 2015-04-30
    Location : Alba (Scotland)

    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  Godric on Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:28 pm

    Cyberspec wrote:
    Godric wrote:if they could mount the bofors gun on a truck or a BMP 1 they would be quite effective as a ground fire support


    There's always the PASARS-16 as an option  Cool




    just the thing ... those bofors might be old guns but they are still useful
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 17033
    Points : 17639
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  GarryB on Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:50 am

    The performance of those Sidewinders from a ground launch would leave much to be desired... they could do with some solid rocket boosters to get them moving and to altitude.

    The biggest threat these days is UAVs and UCAVs so if that 40mm gun can take down UAVs flying a reasonable heights from reasonable ranges then it makes a lot of sense.

    The Russians have realised that 23mm guns lack the altitude and accuracy to hit small targets like UAVs so the 57mm guided shells are getting the nod instead... a nice HE frag shell that explodes within a few metres of a UAV should be effective enough.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    Militarov

    Posts : 5639
    Points : 5680
    Join date : 2015-09-02
    Location : Serbia

    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  Militarov on Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:21 am

    GarryB wrote:The performance of those Sidewinders from a ground launch would leave much to be desired... they could do with some solid rocket boosters to get them moving and to altitude.

    The biggest threat these days is UAVs and UCAVs so if that 40mm gun can take down UAVs flying a reasonable heights from reasonable ranges then it makes a lot of sense.

    The Russians have realised that 23mm guns lack the altitude and accuracy to hit small targets like UAVs so the 57mm guided shells are getting the nod instead... a nice HE frag shell that explodes within a few metres of a UAV should be effective enough.

    Those are supposed to be locally modified Russian R-13Ms. Remnants of old project from late 90s.

    avatar
    Militarov

    Posts : 5639
    Points : 5680
    Join date : 2015-09-02
    Location : Serbia

    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  Militarov on Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:23 am

    d_taddei2 wrote:
    Cyberspec wrote:
    Godric wrote:if they could mount the bofors gun on a truck or a BMP 1 they would be quite effective as a ground fire support


    There's always the PASARS-16 as an option  Cool





    Not bad. But like most serbian systems it will be filled with a mix of components from various countries and will it make it into production?  Using zsu-23-4 would likely be cheaper as most are in storage in Russia and upgrading them to zsu -23-4M. Russia I presume are looking to sell these off. Or cheaper option  buy zu-23-2 ZOM1 etc then mount it on variety of vehicles that they already have in stock.

    Tracked, hence too expencive for us to operate.

    Also we do not have 23mm ammunition in required quantities, while we still do have some reserves of ammo for Bofors. We have no adequate military budget to think about major procurements sadly. Mostly used, gifted... repainted xD
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 17033
    Points : 17639
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:46 am

    Those are supposed to be locally modified Russian R-13Ms. Remnants of old project from late 90s.

    Soviet Sidewinders would be no better, though looking a bit closer the bodies of the missiles get wider so they clearly have a more powerful rocket motor added... it would not give it sterling performance anyway.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    Cyberspec

    Posts : 2241
    Points : 2406
    Join date : 2011-08-08
    Location : Terra Australis

    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  Cyberspec on Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:48 am

    Militarov wrote:Also we do not have 23mm ammunition in required quantities, while we still do have some reserves of ammo for Bofors. We have no adequate military budget to think about major procurements sadly. Mostly used, gifted... repainted xD

    Cheer up...from what I gather better times are coming

    Regarding the PASARS, the firm that's marketing it is talking about adding radar guidance for the Bofors gun.

    Also, they might be getting some Tunguska's as part of the package from Russia

    Another curiosity...a heavily modified Maljutka (Maljutka 2T5)



    avatar
    d_taddei2

    Posts : 1099
    Points : 1267
    Join date : 2013-05-11
    Location : Scotland UK

    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  d_taddei2 on Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:41 pm

    Cyberspec wrote:
    Militarov wrote:Also we do not have 23mm ammunition in required quantities, while we still do have some reserves of ammo for Bofors. We have no adequate military budget to think about major procurements sadly. Mostly used, gifted... repainted xD

    Cheer up...from what I gather better times are coming

    Regarding the PASARS, the firm that's marketing it is talking about adding radar guidance for the Bofors gun.

    Also, they might be getting some Tunguska's as part of the package from Russia

    Another curiosity...a heavily modified Maljutka (Maljutka 2T5)





    That's the 5km range version. I think Serbia haven't done that bad with the AT-3 upgrades the tandem warhead version and this the 5km although if they could increase the speed and guidance even better. But with the AT-3 being likely the cheapest ATGW on the market you can afford for your troops to practice more and it's good for long wars like Syria where not only is it cheap but it's mostly being used on buildings and stationery vehicles and the vehicle armour isn't fantastic either. I bet some SAA have mastered it's use by now.

    I believe this and AT-4 & AT-5 are still systems especially syrian scenario. Can you imagine the cost had they been using something like javelin lol.

    Sponsored content

    Re: Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:15 am