Firebird wrote: flamming_python wrote:There was a cyborg parade in Donetsk today. Captured cyborgs that is. Mostly it was pretty civil and the Novorussian rebels kept order, but I think a few knuckles were thrown and hit home; either at this event or another one recently.
I would normally feel sorry for them and would advocate treating the enemy rank & file with honor.
However if I understood correctly, what these airport defenders have basically been doing is covering for the Ukrainian artillery firing from that location or near it - right at civilian towns and cities.
SO, sucks to be them. Hopefully after they've had their turn at some light humiliation; their families can come and pick them up.
I wouldn't treat them with honour. Its not a sport like a boxing match.
Ultimately, the region had democratically chosen not to accept a US installed Nazi junta.
Their aim was to terrorise innocent people into subjugation.
The so called "cyborgs" could have refused orders. They weren't green 18 yr old terrified conscripts (not that that would be a defence either). But they actively took up their roles to terrorise.
The "only obeying orders" line didn't wash at Nuremberg and it shouldn't wash today. If there was no comeback, I'd have tortured them before killing them.
i personally agree with Flamming Python, more is gained by treating an opposing combat force's POW's as "humane" as possible. in wartime conditions the way the enemy treat's POW's weighs heavily on the decision of combatants to surrender or not. especially with the condition of the Ukraine army with its conscripts where most dont even want to be there in the first place. the decision to just say "fuck it" drop the rifle and surrender knowing you wont be executed on the spot gets attractive at an certain point... that point would be the ultimate question of "are you ready to die for Kiev?". in this case.
in war, its extremely easy to give in to millitary escalation. to the point things just dont have anything to do anymore with millitary operations and just gets an savage display of hatred, cruelty and revenge.
partially i agree too that they shouldnt get off the hook freely, i'd certainly would have let them confront the people of the towns they helped shelling and the destruction it caused. but like the Novo's did do prevent people starting an lynching party or something.
and concerning barely-adult conscripts forced to war, first... me and the lives of my squad comes first. if im fired upon, i dont hesitate. it doenst matter if an 12 year old child fires an AK-47 or an trained soldier. the bullet coming from that gun is just as lethal.
that said, im not an monster either. i know what weapons do to the human body and seen the process of dying enough times. war is anything but black and white, just because some jerk forces an kid away from his home, gives him an gun and puts him on the frontline to fight in an war he's barely old enough to understand does not mean i want to see him hurt just because "he's the other team". to put it in black and white views.
it reminds me from my own experiences where the Taliban tried to force kids as Suicide bombers against us, where some 14 year old kid stood in the middle of the street crying "i dont want to, i dont want to" in Afghan. that kid was terrified, she wanted to walk up to us for help and we pointed weapons in return. but her walking up close enough to our vehicles ultimately saved her own life, she came within our vehicle's IED signal jammer Bubble and so the cellular signal could not reach the detonator cell. you can be an stone-cold warrior all you want but seeing an child be used like that does get to you. or you would be missing some serious feelings that makes you an human being.
or, another reminder my grandfather's ww2 story's where the germans put their kids on the Dutch streets with an rifle that where crying and just wanted to go home.
children are an vulnerable group in warfare, and 18 or so is hardly being adult when it comes to matters concerning the brutality of war. so,...when the situation and time allows there is no shame to give them a break for an moment and give them an way out of the conflict as long they dont pose an direct threat in my opinion.
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