Morpheus Eberhardt wrote: flamming_python wrote:The Russian MoD makes a good case but I can't shake the feeling that they are simply covering for a massive rebel fk-up, skillfully pointing out not completely true or untrue statements, the Ukrainians own crude propaganda efforts and information that has so far been missing. But there are many explanations for such things.
I thought the change of the MH17 route on 17th from the one used the previous days proves it was a false-flag exercise.
The Novorussians couldn't have ordered MalAir to change route.
All it proves is that the flight path was non-standard (if that's what it was), not that the Ukrainians shot it down.
RTN wrote: arpakola wrote:
“Also, Russian monitoring systems registered that there was a Ukrainian Air Force jet, probably Su-25, climbing and approaching the Malaysian Boeing.”
“The Su-25 was 3-5 km away from the Malaysian plane. Su-25 is capable of climbing to the altitude of 10,000 meters for a short period of time. Its standard armament includes R60 air-to-air missiles, which are capable of locking and hitting targets from 12 km and which are guaranteed to hit the target from the distance of 5 km.”
This is a blatant lie . Russia has not produced any evidence to suggest that a Su 25 was tailing MH-17 .
Russia claims that its radars picked up the Su-25 at that altitude, tailing the airliner, or circling around the area of the hit, or whatever it was doing.
Now if you believe them or not - that's your business
Vann7 wrote: flamming_python wrote:The Russian MoD makes a good case but I can't shake the feeling that they are simply covering for a massive rebel fk-up, skillfully pointing out not completely true or untrue statements, the Ukrainians own crude propaganda efforts and information that has so far been missing. But there are many explanations for such things.
1)Strelkov says many of the passengers bodies were in a big state of Decomposition when they arrived. Shows they were death already before the accident.. this is HUGE if what he says is true. Major False flag .
He put that forward as a possible theory, he didn't say he necessarily believed in it, and mentioned it as an afterthought more or less.
But it sounds pretty improbable.
2)The SPanish Air controller says SU-25s were chasing the plane 3 minutes before the plane lose contact and kiev did it.
We don't know who this guy is
3)Russian radars shows SU-25s climbing into an international flight path very nearn the malasyan plane..
If true then very suspicious
4)Russia satelites shows BUKs missiles deployed near the Rebels zone in range of the Civilian plane.
The Ukrainians have the legitimate rights to place air defense on their own territory, but yes assuming that such systems were in range of the airliner, they are potential suspects
5)Ukraine Intelligence shows a fake video of Rebels conversation about the plane that was encoded a day EARLIER the plane crash..
That Youtube timestamp thing has been disproven already. Not that it matters, because that 'evidence' is bullshit either way.
6)The commercial plane change course and leave the international safe route and move directly into the war zone.
There needs to be more investigation as to whether this flightpath was non-standard or not, and why exactly it was diverted
Sujoy wrote:(1) US sat images would have shown the BUK inside Donetsk . But so far there is no confirmation from the US side .
There may be other things they are afraid of revealing, or afraid of revealing their own surveillance/capabilities. A possible explanation anyway. Or they could just be slow.
(2) If the rebels do have the BUK why does Ukraine regularly send in An 26 and Su 25 inside rebel hold areas ? So that trigger happy rebels can shoot down planes at random ?
They've been shooting down planes and helicopters for some time now with good old MANPADs and Strela-10s. The Ukraine has decreased its use of vulnerable aircraft and changed tactics, but they they fly in rebel airspace regularly.
(3) Within a 25 km radius from the site there were 2 more passenger jets in that area . A Singapore airline jet and an Air India jet . Why didn't the rebels shoot down all the 3 aircrafts mistaking them as Military aircrafts ?
Maybe because they thought only one of them was a military aircraft?
Maybe because they don't have a search radar and instead rely on the Buks tracking radar (if that is what they have) with a very narrow band/beam.[/quote]
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