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This is just plain retarded. Why does something like this even exist ? ban it.
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47 posters
The Situation in the Ukraine. #6
TheGeorgian- Posts : 217
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Join date : 2014-06-22
This is just plain retarded. Why does something like this even exist ? ban it.
medo- Posts : 4342
Points : 4422
Join date : 2010-10-24
Location : Slovenia
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfotnnYpzes
Novorussian forces today shot down Ukrainian Su-25 and show wreckage.
Novorussian forces today shot down Ukrainian Su-25 and show wreckage.
Firebird- Posts : 1731
Points : 1761
Join date : 2011-10-14
sepheronx wrote:arpakola wrote:Activists of "Economic boycot" have released mice in Lvov supermarket store. Their purpose is to gnaw and damage wares imported from Russia. Notice how many journos attended The Stunt
Me being moslty Ukrainian, I can say without a doubt that my great grand baba was right, Ukrainians are dumb and untrustworthy. Sorry to other Ukrainians, but your countrymen are not doing you guys any favors.
Half of my family are from Kiev, and further before from some of the Western side of the Ukraine.
They always described themselves as Russian, not Ukrainian.
A while back, I had an interest in the Ukraine, but I only ever considered it as "part of Russia, but self governing for bizarre historical reasons". Nowadays, I just consider the place to be Tosser Central.
Maybe Lvov should have been booted out of the Ukraine. Now that shithole is governing what was a country of 45million.
I now consider the trident and the colours to be analogous to the Swastika.
And other people I speak to in the West say a similar thing to you. They say Russian businesspeople are decent people (or in some cases, *were* until they got fed up of being scammed by Westerners).
But they consider Ukrainians to be ignorant, obnoxious tossers.
It takes a lot for me to change my opinion. I was sure that the place could be cleaned up. But now its clear that its just diseased. The saddest part is that these cocksuckers only got any electoral foothold because they killed so many people during the War.
Hope its a particularly cold winter for those moronic pigs. I think I'll bet both balls that that shitheap is gonna join the 3rd World in the not too distant future.
I wonder if their "boycott" will include Ru gas this winter... haha
arpakola- Posts : 1510
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Join date : 2014-03-12
Age : 56
Location : Athens
https://twitter.com/UkraineConflict/status/491956803438407680
xaxa
=======================================
Rebels counter-attacking on southern front
Last edited by arpakola on Wed Jul 23, 2014 5:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
medo- Posts : 4342
Points : 4422
Join date : 2010-10-24
Location : Slovenia
The missiles needs to be "control remote guided" by radio ,is not something untrained people can do and u dont have many missiles to practice or any target too.. In Short only real professionals can operate it. To be able to shoot down anything. Such Professionals can only come from Russia Federation. And Russia do have very well view of the Airspace in Ukraine. In Short neither Russia ,neither their Professionals did it. period. The plane was flying to high for being done by a Rebel in a manpad.. and the only qualified staff that could operated it ,could only come from Russia military and they are not idiots.. they perfectly understand how to use such sam defenses and knows the difference between civilian planes and military planes. thats part of their training. Civilians airliners their planes have a clear signal that identify them as civilian planes and any trained operator of a buk or any patsir or s-300 clearly understand. I dont think any operator in Russia of any air defense can be qualified to operate any SAM defenses until they perfectly know how to identify civilians planes. No chance they by mistake shoot a civilian
plane.
You have to know few things about Buk. TELAR with missiles have only tracking radar and TV camera for back up. Crew in TELAR could recognize target only through TV camera and if sky was in clouds, that they could not make an ID of the target. Target ID with radar IFF and ID numbers for civil flight could be done through search radar, which for Buk is in special vehicle. Tracking radar doesn't make any ID of target. It only show the object in the air, which it lock. You could not distinguish in tracking radar, if it is civil plane, military plane, helicopter, missile, drone, etc. In the video you could see tracking radar scope picture at 6:44.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X8dvKtBAQk
It is tracking radar scope picture from OSA, but in Buk from the eighties, radar scope picture is no different than in Osa or in other SAMs from that time. Actually even today are similar, only screens are more modern.
When you work in radar mode and your tracking radar lock the target and you launch the missile, than the system works automatically with radar and computer and operator could only watch the screen. Operator have to work with tracking radar only in case of ECM.
So, if sky was cloudy and Ukrainian Sukhoi escape in the cloud, than operator in Buk TELAR could only search and lock with tracking radar, where all objects in the sky are seen as a hill on the line. So without visual ID with TV camera he could not know, what he locked. Ukrainian Buk batteries have all components with battery command posts and search radars, so they have situation awareness picture from CP and they could know, which target is which without visual ID with TV camera.
TheGeorgian- Posts : 217
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Join date : 2014-06-22
medo wrote:You have to know few things about Buk. ...
I know that a single Buk unit requires 3 additional vehicles in total to opperate most efficiently. So from what I gather and what you pretty much confirm, any side posessing such systems could have been responsible for downing it. If the rebels have Buk systems, they gonna be a bit handicapped because I can't imagine they have all the additional equipment apart of the missile launch vehicle itself. So it could have been accidently shot down by them. On the other hand, we have a badly organised Ukrainian military. Maybe they were the ones who "blindly" shot at an unidentified target. But I have to ask myself why should Ukrainians shoot down an aircraft knowing that the separatists don't have any at their disposal ? did the Buk crew make that decision on their own ? it kinda makes little sense. This really really needs neutral and multiple-party investigation. If either Ukrainian military or Seps are responsible, I still believe it was an accident and both sides are simply trying hard to blame eachother for the disaster.
Well, in case of a big dirty game from any of the global players. No hope for any decent investigation.
Zivo- Posts : 1487
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Join date : 2012-04-13
Location : U.S.A.
TheGeorgian wrote:medo wrote:You have to know few things about Buk. ...
I know that a single Buk unit requires 3 additional vehicles in total to opperate most efficiently. So from what I gather and what you pretty much confirm, any side posessing such systems could have been responsible for downing it. If the rebels have Buk systems, they gonna be a bit handicapped because I can't imagine they have all the additional equipment apart of the missile launch vehicle itself. So it could have been accidently shot down by them. On the other hand, we have a badly organised Ukrainian military. Maybe they were the ones who "blindly" shot at an unidentified target. But I have to ask myself why should Ukrainians shoot down an aircraft knowing that the separatists don't have any at their disposal ? did the Buk crew make that decision on their own ? it kinda makes little sense. This really really needs neutral and multiple-party investigation. If either Ukrainian military or Seps are responsible, I still believe it was an accident and both sides are simply trying hard to blame eachother for the disaster.
Well, in case of a big dirty game from any of the global players. No hope for any decent investigation.
The Ukrainian military has consistently blamed their loses on Russia. Just one day before the accident they said a Russian aircraft downed their an-26. They also said Russia launched an airstrike on a town South of Donetsk. Today, they're apparently saying Russia downed their two Su-25's.
The Ukrainians are clearly paranoid of Russian strikes in their territory.
IMO, either side could have done it.
sepheronx
sepheronx- Posts : 8558
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Age : 34
Location : Canada
Ukrainian minister calls for ban on Russian journalists’ travel to EU, US
This just gets better and better.
This just gets better and better.
medo- Posts : 4342
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Join date : 2010-10-24
Location : Slovenia
Someone think in the same direction as I did. Attack happened from behind, most probably AA missile. Russian press briefing show only filtered civil ATC radar picture, which show only planes higher than 5000 m. If the second fighter fly lower than 5000 m, behind airliner, could very easily lock its AAM on airliner and launch the missile.
Flyingdutchman- Posts : 535
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Join date : 2013-07-30
Location : The Netherlands
The Netherlands, Australia and the ukraine want a UN mission to secure the crashsite.
Link is in dutch.
http://www.elsevier.nl/Buitenland/nieuws/2014/7/Nederland-Australie-en-Oekraine-werken-aan-VN-missie-rampplek-1565342W/
Link is in dutch.
http://www.elsevier.nl/Buitenland/nieuws/2014/7/Nederland-Australie-en-Oekraine-werken-aan-VN-missie-rampplek-1565342W/
Vann7- Posts : 5385
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Join date : 2012-05-16
flamming_python wrote:
I thought the change of the MH17 route on 17th from the one used the previous days proves it was a false-flag exercise.
SOmeone hacked Flamming Python account.. i can't believe he loss his capabilities overnight to think and
any analysis. even the Georgian who is anti-Russia is saying he is more inclined that Kiev did it. what happened to you?
This is a blatant lie . Russia has not produced any evidence to suggest that a Su 25 was tailing MH-17 .
So now you are saying Russia is lying?
Russia released EVIDENCE , Information from its Radars that there was an SU-25 very close to the malasyan plane ,flying at a similar altitude tracking the malasyan plane. Something that is illegal . because can provoke an accident. There is plenty of examples of planes colliding in air to support the ban the rules for military planes to get close to civilians airliners. Russia shows evidence Kiev have SU-25 near the malasyan plane and proof Kiev LIE ,when they say they didn't had military planes active in the zone that day.
So please tell us who you believe? Kiev.. ? the white house?
Russia claims that its radars picked up the Su-25 at that altitude, tailing the airliner, or circling around the area of the hit, or whatever it was doing.Now if you believe them or not - that's your business.
me: Strelkov says many of the passengers bodies were in a big state of Decomposition when they arrived. Shows they were death already before the accident.. this is HUGE if what he says is true. Major False flag .
you : He put that forward as a possible theory, he didn't say he necessarily believed in it, and mentioned it as an afterthought more or less. [/quote]
No dude this is NOT a theory , if he say they smell like rotten corpses ,THEY KNOW what they are saying. People that die in a place accident do not smell like they have been death for a week. This is not theory this tangible information. You can say he lie .. but you can't say is a theory.
But it sounds pretty improbable.
Based on what? Western agencies have used death bodies before to stage false flags.. they did it in Syria Houla Massacre.. many of the death bodies came from morgues ,to get a big number and call world attention ,fabricating a crime scene where to blame the Syrian Government for a warcrime.
me: Russian radars shows SU-25s climbing into an international flight path very nearn the malasyan plane..
you : If true then very suspicious
But still you insist that Rebels did it without any single evidence pointing in favor of kiev version.
me : 4)Russia satelites shows BUKs missiles deployed near the Rebels zone in range of the Civilian plane.
you: The Ukrainians have the legitimate rights to place air defense on their own territory, but yes assuming that such systems were in range of the airliner, they are potential suspects
me: But the Kiev junta told they did not have any BUk missiles in the zone
SO clearly they LIED AGAIN .
They even deny that they ever bomb civilians in eastern ukraine or in Russia , the reason why you believe in anything kiev says is a mystery for me..
That Youtube timestamp thing has been disproven already. Not that it matters, because that 'evidence' is bullshit either way.
No is not bullshit ,only what you say. The youtube video was proven to be 100% fake ,not related to the Malasyan
accident. but to something else. and the kiev junta intelligence services used the video as "Proof" that Russia did it.
Clearly Shows intention to deceive the world with false evidence.. clearly proof that kiev is trying to blame Russia using false evidence.. The question you need to ask yourself ,take some breathing and meditate for a moment is this.. IF kiev is telling the truth and they didn't shot down the plane ,then why they lie so much and fabricate fake evidence to blame Russia? That simple question is everything there is to know about the whole thing.
And is not about youtube timestamp when was uploaded.. this have not been disproved. is about the ENCODING TIME STAMP. You could have a video encoded in your computer for years..and upload it to youtube.. and it will show the timestamp only the day you upload the video. NOT when it was encoded by you..youtube does not provide that information..you need special software programs for that. This is HUGE man.. THe smoking gun ,that kiev KNEW about a civilian plane crash BEFORE the incident happens ,and that they will be faking videos to blame the rebels. IN any court the youtube fabricated evidence by Kiev intelligence services will be more than enough to
point fingers at Kiev for the murder of 300 civilians.
me: The commercial plane change course and leave the international safe route and move directly into the war zone.
you : There needs to be more investigation as to whether this flightpath was non-standard or not, and why exactly it was diverted.
Lets see.. If you enter your house.. and your wife is naked with another man. will you say.. mmm.. this needs more investigation? hell no.. you automatically knows there is SOMETHING REALLY WRONG , Civilians airlines dude don't leave International safe routes at the last minute and change course towards a war zone.. that never happens.. unless it was ordered to do it..and they were lied . There is no more investigation need , to know Kiev did it.. they have 100% responsesability to provide safe route for all international airlines through its territory. And if they know there is a warzone where they are losing a plane every day.. IS THEIR DUTY. to NOT Allow any civilian plane enter there. But they didn't do it.. Kiev simply wanted the plane destroyed. and Period.
US sat images would have shown the BUK inside Donetsk . But so far there is no confirmation from the US side .
WHo hacked flamming_python account? He needs confirmation from the Obama administration who shot down the plane. .
Of course they will tell you it was a PUtin Missile who did it. if they could do it and people believe it. US is a rogue nation a state sponsor of terrorism and they even assassinate their own people as 9/11 WTC to justify major takeover of middle east. US fabricate always evidence to justify wars and no fly zone. How can anyone expect any information from the West to be credible about Ukraine ,when they provoked the entire civil war .. is mind blowing.
There may be other things they are afraid of revealing, or afraid of revealing their own surveillance/capabilities. A possible explanation anyway. Or they could just be slow.
Or simply maybe you are the one slow.. because i refuse to believe you are another troll.
someone else : Within a 25 km radius from the site there were 2 more passenger jets in that area . A Singapore airline jet and an Air India jet . Why didn't the rebels shoot down all the 3 aircrafts mistaking them as Military aircrafts ?
Yep thats an interesting question. 3 planes flying near at the same time.. but Rebels pick the great Malasyan plane.
at the same time the American Federal Aviation banned since April all commercial air flights not only over the warzone but all Ukraine. Perhaps they knew that it was not safe to fly over Ukraine.
So far ZERO evidence that Rebels did it.. and 100% evidence that Kiev did it because they fabricated evidence
to blame the Rebels did it AND encoded it a DAY EARLIER before the plane crash. and uploaded to youtube as "proof Russia did it". Evidence that Kiev lied about having no military planes active that day in the warzone , Evidence that they had BUKS missiles near the crash zone ,the day it crash. Evidence that they lie and lie all the time and keep lying and even deny they are killing civilians in the criminal war.
What else you need to know? Unfortunately nothing we discuss here will matter ,because the Malasyan criminal Government have given the Black Boxes to the UK government ,who will come to the rescue of kiev and Fabricate more evidence. Im very suspicious of the Malasyan Government too. they even loss a plane months ago under incredible events that just like in Ukraine never happens. It was a 100% false flag attack on a civilian plane ,but that was poorly executed.
to damage Russia and Rebels world image and isolate them in the world and with full participation not only of kiev ,but Malasya airliner ,US, and probably Netherlands from where the plane took off? Because you can't load death bodies into a plane bypassing airport security , unless you have help from that government.
Last edited by Vann7 on Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:56 pm; edited 4 times in total
medo- Posts : 4342
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Anyone know, what is the serial number of Malaysian B777, which was shot down in Ukraine and what was the serial number of Malaysian B777, which disappear few months ago in its way to China? We know those planes only by their flight numbers, not by serial numbers. I wouldn't be surprised, if this is the same plane.
Hannibal Barca- Posts : 1443
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medo wrote:
Someone think in the same direction as I did. Attack happened from behind, most probably AA missile. Russian press briefing show only filtered civil ATC radar picture, which show only planes higher than 5000 m. If the second fighter fly lower than 5000 m, behind airliner, could very easily lock its AAM on airliner and launch the missile.
Yes I can now safely say that the evidence is overwhelming. This must be shots from the same level! most probably from a SU25's 30mm cannon.
It was like science fiction to believe this but yeah Jews never end surprising me.
Werewolf- Posts : 5920
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Hannibal Barca wrote:medo wrote:
Someone think in the same direction as I did. Attack happened from behind, most probably AA missile. Russian press briefing show only filtered civil ATC radar picture, which show only planes higher than 5000 m. If the second fighter fly lower than 5000 m, behind airliner, could very easily lock its AAM on airliner and launch the missile.
Yes I can now safely say that the evidence is overwhelming. This must be shots from the same level! most probably from a SU25's 30mm cannon.
It was like science fiction to believe this but yeah Jews never end surprising me.
That are no 30mm holes, and russians use HEFI rounds with impact delayed fuze, if you want to know what happens to objects fired with 30mm then it would look like one hole 30mm big entering material and exploding right after entrance, and dozens of small holes coming out of the object and most probably expanding the entrance hole to one crater.
All those holes on the aircraft are going inverts, meaning ATAM hit it no cannon.
Vann7- Posts : 5385
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It looks like kiev national airforce not only launched a missile from a military plane but used its cannon too ,to wipe the pilots so they could not talk on radio and say anything. The wing damage is interesting because suggest the projectile came from same altitude of the airliner. I dont think Buks missiles did it.. because it will be dangerous for an SU-25 to be close to the Malasyan plane (as Russian radars show) when a BUK is firing on the civilian plane.
If this was a False Flag incident.. like all evidence until now shows.. then anything is possible. An SU-25 could be armed to fire american weapons or any weapon that a job require .. if they had that capability. You could customize a civilian airplane to launch cruise missiles.. if you really wanted to hide an attack. Syria for example also have migs that can fire Yakhont missiles . But this is a custom thing ,made by them and probably with the help of Russia.
That are no 30mm holes, and russians use HEFI rounds with impact delayed fuze, if you want to know what happens to objects fired with 30mm then it would look like one hole 30mm big entering material and exploding right after entrance, and dozens of small holes coming out of the object and most probably expanding the entrance hole to one crater. All those holes on the aircraft are going inverts, meaning ATAM hit it no cannon. wrote:
If this was a False Flag incident.. like all evidence until now shows.. then anything is possible. An SU-25 could be armed to fire american weapons or any weapon that a job require .. if they had that capability. You could customize a civilian airplane to launch cruise missiles.. if you really wanted to hide an attack. Syria for example also have migs that can fire Yakhont missiles . But this is a custom thing ,made by them and probably with the help of Russia.
Last edited by Vann7 on Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
Hannibal Barca- Posts : 1443
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This is multiple entrants no way to be ATAM let alone that any missile would had disintegrate the plane to a gazillion pieces.
This look perfectly like a cannon if you ask me.
I do agree that it's smaller than an 30mm but I can't find any other convenient explanation.
Anyway we all agree this is case closed really. Same altitude, multiple shots, projectiles towards cockpit.
This dutch homosexual who is the frontman of US occupation to his country can eat his mouth.. not that he has any dignity but anyway.
This look perfectly like a cannon if you ask me.
I do agree that it's smaller than an 30mm but I can't find any other convenient explanation.
Anyway we all agree this is case closed really. Same altitude, multiple shots, projectiles towards cockpit.
This dutch homosexual who is the frontman of US occupation to his country can eat his mouth.. not that he has any dignity but anyway.
Last edited by Hannibal Barca on Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
Werewolf- Posts : 5920
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Hannibal Barca wrote:This is multiple entrants no way to be ATAM let alone that any missile would had disintegrate the plane to a gazillion pieces.
This look perfectly like a cannon if you ask me.
I do agree that it's smaller than an 30mm but I can't find any other convenient explanation.
Air to Air missiles will not blow up and disintegrate the entire plane, short ATAMs have only small warheads that were designed to enagage effective fighter jets and that is why they have small warheads just enough explosive to be effective against a jet fighter.
Hannibal Barca- Posts : 1443
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Werewolf wrote:Hannibal Barca wrote:This is multiple entrants no way to be ATAM let alone that any missile would had disintegrate the plane to a gazillion pieces.
This look perfectly like a cannon if you ask me.
I do agree that it's smaller than an 30mm but I can't find any other convenient explanation.
Air to Air missiles will not blow up and disintegrate the entire plane, short ATAMs have only small warheads that were designed to enagage effective fighter jets and that is why they have small warheads just enough explosive to be effective against a jet fighter.
Give an example of this missiles.
medo- Posts : 4342
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If the missile become from behind, that this is not the same Su-25, but the second fighter, which stay below 5000 m and invisible in this filtered radar picture. It could be MiG-29 or Su-27 and launch R-27T missile, Su-25 than just climb to airliner to check it and maybe finish the job. Airliner already loosing its speed, when Su-25 is climbing there.
Werewolf- Posts : 5920
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Hannibal Barca wrote:Werewolf wrote:Hannibal Barca wrote:This is multiple entrants no way to be ATAM let alone that any missile would had disintegrate the plane to a gazillion pieces.
This look perfectly like a cannon if you ask me.
I do agree that it's smaller than an 30mm but I can't find any other convenient explanation.
Air to Air missiles will not blow up and disintegrate the entire plane, short ATAMs have only small warheads that were designed to enagage effective fighter jets and that is why they have small warheads just enough explosive to be effective against a jet fighter.
Give an example of this missiles.
R-60 or R-73 all small warheads with only 3-8kg.
http://vympelmkb.com/products/prod01/
R-73E 8kg warhead
R-60 only freeking 3kg equal to Igla/Stinger
http://www.nnre.ru/tehnicheskie_nauki/sovetskie_aviacionnye_rakety_vozduh_vozduh/p15.php
Here is again a video of Vikhr that has 12kg explosive warhead and hits a small Tu-16 and a boing 777 is huge compared to that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyabIb2QxuU
Morpheus Eberhardt- Posts : 1925
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flamming_python wrote:Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:flamming_python wrote:The Russian MoD makes a good case but I can't shake the feeling that they are simply covering for a massive rebel fk-up, skillfully pointing out not completely true or untrue statements, the Ukrainians own crude propaganda efforts and information that has so far been missing. But there are many explanations for such things.
I thought the change of the MH17 route on 17th from the one used the previous days proves it was a false-flag exercise.
The Novorussians couldn't have ordered MalAir to change route.
All it proves is that the flight path was non-standard (if that's what it was), not that the Ukrainians shot it down.
Intentional "non-standard" flight paths don't happen on their own. An aircraft has a pilot that controls it, the pilot is controlled by the airline, and the airline by its masters.
Obviously you haven't read my posts, and the "... not that the Ukrainians shot it down" part of your assertion proves that. I didn't say that. Why not a bomb? The stooges shooting it down is the second most probable means of destruction of the MH17.
You have to be analytical about this; this is math.
Last edited by Morpheus Eberhardt on Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:12 am; edited 1 time in total
Morpheus Eberhardt- Posts : 1925
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flamming_python wrote:Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:flamming_python wrote:The Russian MoD makes a good case but I can't shake the feeling that they are simply covering for a massive rebel fk-up, skillfully pointing out not completely true or untrue statements, the Ukrainians own crude propaganda efforts and information that has so far been missing. But there are many explanations for such things.
I thought the change of the MH17 route on 17th from the one used the previous days proves it was a false-flag exercise.
The Novorussians couldn't have ordered MalAir to change route.
All it proves is that the flight path was non-standard (if that's what it was), not that the Ukrainians shot it down.RTN wrote:arpakola wrote:
“Also, Russian monitoring systems registered that there was a Ukrainian Air Force jet, probably Su-25, climbing and approaching the Malaysian Boeing.”
“The Su-25 was 3-5 km away from the Malaysian plane. Su-25 is capable of climbing to the altitude of 10,000 meters for a short period of time. Its standard armament includes R60 air-to-air missiles, which are capable of locking and hitting targets from 12 km and which are guaranteed to hit the target from the distance of 5 km.”
This is a blatant lie . Russia has not produced any evidence to suggest that a Su 25 was tailing MH-17 .
Russia claims that its radars picked up the Su-25 at that altitude, tailing the airliner, or circling around the area of the hit, or whatever it was doing.
Now if you believe them or not - that's your businessVann7 wrote:flamming_python wrote:The Russian MoD makes a good case but I can't shake the feeling that they are simply covering for a massive rebel fk-up, skillfully pointing out not completely true or untrue statements, the Ukrainians own crude propaganda efforts and information that has so far been missing. But there are many explanations for such things.
1)Strelkov says many of the passengers bodies were in a big state of Decomposition when they arrived. Shows they were death already before the accident.. this is HUGE if what he says is true. Major False flag .
He put that forward as a possible theory, he didn't say he necessarily believed in it, and mentioned it as an afterthought more or less.
But it sounds pretty improbable.
2)The SPanish Air controller says SU-25s were chasing the plane 3 minutes before the plane lose contact and kiev did it.
We don't know who this guy is
3)Russian radars shows SU-25s climbing into an international flight path very nearn the malasyan plane..
If true then very suspicious
4)Russia satelites shows BUKs missiles deployed near the Rebels zone in range of the Civilian plane.
The Ukrainians have the legitimate rights to place air defense on their own territory, but yes assuming that such systems were in range of the airliner, they are potential suspects
5)Ukraine Intelligence shows a fake video of Rebels conversation about the plane that was encoded a day EARLIER the plane crash..
That Youtube timestamp thing has been disproven already. Not that it matters, because that 'evidence' is bullshit either way.
6)The commercial plane change course and leave the international safe route and move directly into the war zone.
There needs to be more investigation as to whether this flightpath was non-standard or not, and why exactly it was divertedSujoy wrote:(1) US sat images would have shown the BUK inside Donetsk . But so far there is no confirmation from the US side .
There may be other things they are afraid of revealing, or afraid of revealing their own surveillance/capabilities. A possible explanation anyway. Or they could just be slow.
(2) If the rebels do have the BUK why does Ukraine regularly send in An 26 and Su 25 inside rebel hold areas ? So that trigger happy rebels can shoot down planes at random ?
They've been shooting down planes and helicopters for some time now with good old MANPADs and Strela-10s. The Ukraine has decreased its use of vulnerable aircraft and changed tactics, but they they fly in rebel airspace regularly.
(3) Within a 25 km radius from the site there were 2 more passenger jets in that area . A Singapore airline jet and an Air India jet . Why didn't the rebels shoot down all the 3 aircrafts mistaking them as Military aircrafts ?
Maybe because they thought only one of them was a military aircraft?
Maybe because they don't have a search radar and instead rely on the Buks tracking radar (if that is what they have) with a very narrow band/beam.
FP,
Are you being paid for this?
I haven't forgotten the conversation we had about a couple of month ago.
mack8- Posts : 1039
Points : 1093
Join date : 2013-08-02
Guys, regarding the Su-25, do not forget that according to some at least respectable sources say there were TWO Su-27s flying BARCAP and HAVCAP in the area, and according to that infamous spanish controller, two fighters followed MH17 until 2 or 3 minutes before the shoot-down. I don't know if the russian radar used to track movements inside Ukraine could differentiate between different aircraft types, i know the russian general said there was a Su-25 near by, but perhaps he is mistaken and maybe it was a fighter? Anyway i doubt a Su-25 could give chase to an airliner as it is actually SLOWER, and a hypothetical attack window is very, VERY narrow.
On the other hand, one of the numerous possibilities is there was indeed a Su-25 nearby (lower and slower) the novorussians fired at it but only for the missile to go past and hit the airliner. Or it could be that ALL the above is correct, i.e in the vicinity of MH17 there were not only that Su-25, but also two fighters! Disaster waiting to happen in those circumstances, which of course dos not answer the question what the hell was MH17 doing over this war zone, was it there by accident OR by purpose?
On the other hand, one of the numerous possibilities is there was indeed a Su-25 nearby (lower and slower) the novorussians fired at it but only for the missile to go past and hit the airliner. Or it could be that ALL the above is correct, i.e in the vicinity of MH17 there were not only that Su-25, but also two fighters! Disaster waiting to happen in those circumstances, which of course dos not answer the question what the hell was MH17 doing over this war zone, was it there by accident OR by purpose?
Airbornewolf- Posts : 1504
Points : 1570
Join date : 2014-02-05
Location : https://odysee.com/@airbornewolf:8
Hannibal Barca wrote:This is multiple entrants no way to be ATAM let alone that any missile would had disintegrate the plane to a gazillion pieces.
This look perfectly like a cannon if you ask me.
I do agree that it's smaller than an 30mm but I can't find any other convenient explanation.
Anyway we all agree this is case closed really. Same altitude, multiple shots, projectiles towards cockpit.
This dutch homosexual who is the frontman of US occupation to his country can eat his mouth.. not that he has any dignity but anyway.
i doubt 30 Mike Mike cannon engagement by an SU-25. large-calibre weaponry has a habit of being heavily influenced by air-drag. it arcs like hell, limited projective velocity and if an SU-25 needs to target an Airliner flying close to around mach 0.82. i do not believe an 30 MM of or an SU-25 for that matter did that.
Shrapnell damage does make those holes like in the pictures. remember this aircraft was designed with cost-effiecency in mind. so light as possible and thus its plating as as thin as possible.
but for arguement sakes, if it was an gun-run attack there are still rounds in the aircraft's parts and bulkheads among the wreckage. that someone is bound to find sooner or later.
but some of my hopes for voice recordings went pretty much out the window with the shrapnell damage to the cockpit fuselage itself. at those speeds it would have been pretty much impossible to get any audioble on recording from the pilots with a breached cockpit. the rebels even said the cockpit section was covered in blood. so i assume one pilot at least was shredded. propably the captain sitting standard at the left side of an aircraft.
and with your statement of dutch homosexual i assume you mean our illustrious Dutch Foreign Minister. he's always among the first indeed to yell "fire" for the U.S interrests. but i assure you he's no homosexual. and neither do i judge people's chosen lifestyles, but i do believe Timmermans. as our foreign minister is called deserves a good beating for politicizing the deaths of Dutch citizens for his pro-american goals.
i love his "there will be consequences" style remarks tough, while thanks to his political party the Dutch Millitary is left toothless after year after year of budget cuts.
Morpheus Eberhardt- Posts : 1925
Points : 2032
Join date : 2013-05-20
Flyingdutchman wrote:The Netherlands, Australia and the ukraine want a UN mission to secure the crashsite.
Link is in dutch.
http://www.elsevier.nl/Buitenland/nieuws/2014/7/Nederland-Australie-en-Oekraine-werken-aan-VN-missie-rampplek-1565342W/
Writing about what marginal entities like Netherlands, Australia, and Ukraine tell their subjects lowers the quality standards of this forum.
Last edited by Morpheus Eberhardt on Thu Jul 24, 2014 12:25 am; edited 1 time in total
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