The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

From VoR Live coverage:

VOR wrote:

Supporters of federalization from other parts of the Donetsk region are heading for Slavyansk to help the town’s defenders, Nikolai Solntsev, one of the leaders of the Eastern Front social-patriotic movement, told reporters on Saturday.
14:42
Pro-federalization forces in the eastern Ukrainian town of Slavyansk, besieged by Ukrainian troops, are bracing for a crucial storm tonight.
14:30
European Commission announces growing concern in regard to events in southeastern Ukraine, RIA Novosti reports
14:14
Kiev authorities making decision on retaliatory operation in southeast Ukraine will inevitably incur responsibility, especially before own people - Kremlin

Link to their live update page

I really hate this man but what he says is how i think of it as well.

http://rt.com/shows/sophieco/156296-geert-wilders-eu-elections/

macedonian wrote:Medo, out of everything you've said, I only agree that Russia should not overtly intervene at this point.
Not that I'd like to see the situation escalate, as you've said, but because I would like to see the Junta back down in humiliation again.
FFS, "Wait till the civil war escalates"?! C'mon guys...Don't equate every Ukrainian with the Right Sector idiots.
And that fantasy about the pro-Russian side having an air force...? C'mon.

Let's try and keep it real here, and try not go the MP.net way...

I think you don't understand me properly. No one want civil war to happen, but unfortunately Kiev regime start it. If Russian military intervene too quickly, than majority of Ukrainians will stand with Kiev against occupation. With escalation of Kiev attacks on their citizens, majority will be against Kiev regime and will not be against Russian intervention to stop this mess. It is far easier, if local population is on your side.

Regarding federalist air force, southeastern regions have around 20 million people and they have their pilots in Ukrainian MVD and army, who could join they with helicopter. They could also use civil helicopters as Mi-2 for scout role, just paint them in green. Helicopters could operate from towns and villages.

medo wrote:

macedonian wrote:Medo, out of everything you've said, I only agree that Russia should not overtly intervene at this point.
Not that I'd like to see the situation escalate, as you've said, but because I would like to see the Junta back down in humiliation again.
FFS, "Wait till the civil war escalates"?! C'mon guys...Don't equate every Ukrainian with the Right Sector idiots.
And that fantasy about the pro-Russian side having an air force...? C'mon.

Let's try and keep it real here, and try not go the MP.net way...

I think you don't understand me properly. No one want civil war to happen, but unfortunately Kiev regime start it. If Russian military intervene too quickly, than majority of Ukrainians will stand with Kiev against occupation. With escalation of Kiev attacks on their citizens, majority will be against Kiev regime and will not be against Russian intervention to stop this mess. It is far easier, if local population is on your side.

Regarding federalist air force, southeastern regions have around 20 million people and they have their pilots in Ukrainian MVD and army, who could join they with helicopter. They could also use civil helicopters as Mi-2 for scout role, just paint them in green. Helicopters could operate from towns and villages.

Thanks for explaining.
Yes, now what you say seems much more reasonable.
Cheers

macedonian wrote:

VOR wrote:Right sector militants landed from a helicopter on the outskirts of Slavyansk,
where a special operation of the Ukrainian law enforcers is under way, a RIA Novosti correspondent reports.

Right Sector "cleansing" the separatists while the army waits outside seems a likely plan for the junta,
RS has apparently "activated" their Donbass "battallion", and is actively coordinating with the junta...
I believe that Avakov is NOT in charge of the operation anymore,
it's Nalivaychenko the head of SBU who is overseeing the whole operation including army and national guard,
and he has a history or working with the banderist militia, as well as CIA, etc.  
Only thing with those guys is they may be very hard to call off.
EDIT: Here is a source I ran across of Nalivaychenko fraternizing with Yarosh and the RS-predecessor Trident back in 2011:
http://niqnaq.wordpress.com/2014/04/03/the-new-head-of-ukrainian-counter-intelligence-works-for-the-cia/
(that site is somewhat sketchy but the story itself seems legit, if anybody has a better source that would be great)

Incidentally, the junta banning May 9 Victory Day celebrations (while allowing marches honoring Galician SS)
seems like another alarm bell for the at least half of Ukraine not on board the Banderist UKR-Nationalist project.

I haven't found confirmation outside RIA Novosti, but they claim OSCE is trying to get the junta to stop the operation.
Junta says the operation is just to encircle Slavyansk, although they previously claimed they already did that.
http://ria.ru/world/20140502/1006270128.html

http://anti-maidan.com/?p=streams&sid=Kvant&attempt=1

Watching the live stream in Odessa right now...proRussians are getting beat by proUkrainians...damn too brutal.
I wish they'd organize better. They seem to be retreating now, but there could be some, if not a lot, of casualties.
Feeling angry right now   

macedonian wrote:Watching the live stream in Odessa right now...proRussians are getting beat by proUkrainians...damn too brutal.
I wish they'd organize better. They seem to be retreating now, but there could be some, if not a lot, of casualties.
Feeling angry right now   

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/o1odessa    << maidan side 200 people all together

^^^
Yes, that's the stream, and I'm still watching it...trying to figure which side the locals support.

macedonian wrote:^^^
Yes, that's the stream, and I'm still watching it...trying to figure which side the locals support.

Τhe problem with the "locals" in the whole SE is that they were not ideologicaly alerted of what is coming , in contrast to the R sector ..

Most of the people are pathetic so far, or many fell too far from borders of Russia.
Seems that Odessa has a lot antifascist atitute but so far was expressed only in parades..

arpakola wrote:

macedonian wrote:^^^
Yes, that's the stream, and I'm still watching it...trying to figure which side the locals support.

Τhe problem with the "locals" in the whole SE is that they were not ideologicaly alerted of what is coming , in contrast to the R sector ..

Most of the people are pathetic so far, or many fell too far from borders of Russia.
Seems that Odessa has a lot antifascist atitute but so far was expressed only in parades..

You're right.
btw here's the stream from the proRussian side:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=VG6NDlHVzL4

arpakola wrote:

macedonian wrote:^^^
Yes, that's the stream, and I'm still watching it...trying to figure which side the locals support.

Τhe problem with the "locals" in the whole SE is that they were not ideologicaly alerted of what is coming , in contrast to the R sector ..

Most of the people are pathetic so far, or many fell too far from borders of Russia.
Seems that Odessa has a lot antifascist atitute but so far was expressed only in parades..

Lack of people participation from the anti-kiev side continues to be the problem. IF they had 100,000 people in each city strong rallies. It will be impossible for Any maidan to enter in any city and impossible for the kiev army to conduct any operation. 50 people for example could take a light npc turn it upside down. effectively disabling it.. or use molotov bombs in the apc.. destroying it.

THis is why is a mistake for RUssia army invade now ,they could end fighting civilians too ,that are already preselected and waiting for Russian tanks to invade and create a fantastic show for western media to demonize Russia. Someone said the pro maidanuts are paid 2,000 $ dollars a month for their Anti-Russia activism and leaders $6 thousand.   For anyone who have been following the conflict. Is clear that NATO tactics are to fully raise,promote and empower a strong neo-nazi nation in Ukraine ,that is very hostile to Russia and make them their NATO partners. I really consider a near catastrophic failure Putin Policy in Ukraine ,he should have known for years since 2004 ,after Libya and Syria,that the color revolution ,that NATO had intentions to capture Ukraine and support neo nazis in power. Timoshenko ,even though she is anti putin ,is only a cover for their real intentions. NATO wants to raise into power a second Hitler..but this time one that is friendly to NATO and use it as a weapon against Russia. There was never and end to the cold war ,and NATO goals was always to destruction of Russia. Owning Crimea does not change much the things ,if For example NATO deploy military bases in Odessa from different nations with submarines carrying nuclear bombs,just 100km away of them. Russia national security is seriously compromised thanks to their incompetence in not sending NGOS to educate the 8 millions of Russians and others ,about the danger they will face if they not active with the politics in their country.
Just 3,000 of strong Pro Russian activist ,with the right defense gear ,financed by Russia could have been enough to help Police clear the central square from maidanuts and secure buildings. But Putin simply waited for the coup to happen ,to later have to deal with a hostile power and have to use their army.  Is still too early to claim a total failure ,but the lack of people participation is not a good sign. A coup like that will have been IMPOSSIBLE to happen in venezuela for example. US cannot overthrow chavism by force there. Simply because Chavez educated his people to be very active and participate in the government. It was civilians what reversed the coup against chavez in 2002. They moved in the millions and encircle the place where the coup organizers located. That made it easy for the army to play an active role and refuse to recognize the new junta. and to help chavez get in power again.

Obama, Merkel threaten broad sanctions in case Ukraine elections are disrupted

United States President Barack Obama and German Chancellor Angela Merkel declared on Friday that US and EU will be ready to impose broad sectoral sanctions on Russia if presidential elections in Ukraine are disrupted.

Should Ukrainian presidential elections scheduled for May 25 be impeded by Russia, Pres. Obama said, then sectoral sanctions against Moscow would be”inevitable.”

Both Pres. Obama and Chancellor Merkel told reporters from the White House rose garden that while a diplomatic solution to the Ukrainian crisis is preferred, further steps with regards to sectoral measures in the context of certain branches of industry could soon be announced.
Such sanctions, Obama said, would “further impact Russia's growth and economy” and be aimed at any of several sectors. At the same time, however, he said his administration hopes imposing further sanctions won't be required.

“There are a range of approaches that can be taken not only in the energy sector, but in the arms sector, the finance sector, in terms of lines of credit for trade, all that have a significant impact on Russia,” Obama said.

“This is not necessarily what we want, but we are ready and prepared,” Merkel added.

It looks to me EU and US will apply sectorial sanction on Russia because chances are East will boycott the election.

Time to tighten the belt for Russia and prepare move to minimise the effect and counter sanction these nations.

e “football fans” attacking anti-government activists in Odessa have also set the local House of Trade Unions building on fire. The radicals stormed and torched the building after learning that some anti-Maidan activists had barricaded themselves inside it.

Austin wrote:It looks to me EU and US will apply sectorial sanction on Russia because chances are East will boycott the election.

Time to tighten the belt for Russia and prepare move to minimise the effect and counter sanction these nations.

You cant have a valid election anyway. The Right Sector and its pals destroyed any semblance of democracy. And use any tools at its disposal to intimidate and cheat in the election.

Its already got key positions in the prosecutors office, police and other govt positions.

Austin wrote:It looks to me EU and US will apply sectorial sanction on Russia because chances are East will boycott the election.

Time to tighten the belt for Russia and prepare move to minimise the effect and counter sanction these nations.

Merkel govt. simply posturing, virtually all the biggest German corporations are pro-Russian and the electoral base of Merkel's Christian-Democratic party is made up of the German upper-middle class. It should also be noted that US wants to destroy the European market to make the US dollar look strong in comparison to the Euro, just like the collective speculative attack on the Euro was to save the Dollar, where George Soro's Quantum Fund and a gaggle of hedge funds agreed to attack the weak flank of the Euro which was the Greek bond market which was discussed in the boutique Monness Crespi Hardt bank, at the idea dinner in the spring of 2010:

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB40001424052748703795004575087741848074392

ProRussians being burned alive on live stream!
People stand around and shout Putin Kurva! Jump Bitch! and similar compassionate things!!!
These people are totally lost!!! Humanity is f...ed!

I feel so angry right now that just can't control myself.
The building is on fire, and when they bring out the injured, the proUkrainiians literally beat them up! Some are definitely killed after escaping the fire.
Some people on the scene are tweeting that they've seen AT LEAST 7 dead (probable estimate is far worse if you ask me). Corpses on the street.
WTF has this world come to?!

I don't know what the future will bring there, but it's not gonna be peachy at all!

   

I asked my father on his opinion on this whole matter, as he and my mother both have direct link of family back in Ukraine/Russia. He pretty much views this whole thing of Ukraine being turned from a regular failed state to an African style failed State. He says Ukrainians were always like this in terms of being self destructive.

I think it is better to be federalized or at least split. If the viewpoints of these people are just too different, to the point they are killing each other, then what is the point staying together?

sepheronx wrote:I asked my father on his opinion on this whole matter, as he and my mother both have direct link of family back in Ukraine/Russia.  He pretty much views this whole thing of Ukraine being turned from a regular failed state to an African style failed State.  He says Ukrainians were always like this in terms of being self destructive.

I think it is better to be federalized or at least split.  If the viewpoints of these people are just too different, to the point they are killing each other, then what is the point staying together?

Mine were from Kiev, and further West. There's always been pure evil in some parts of it. Putin was right when he used the phrase "pogroms".

Its starting to look a little finished as a unified state. As I see it, its a matter for Moscow as the inheritor of the rights and obligations of the USSR. It sickens me to read about foreign states installing Nazis then lecturing Moscow. And I've grown up in the West (of Europe).

Putin's never struck me as remotely weak. Because ofcourse he has always been strong. But whatever his tactics are, there is an electorate in Russia who have no stomach for innocent lives being lost before there is intervention.

You can tell someone to stop once. You can tell someone twice. But if you keep telling them to stop, you might as well tell them to carry on.

Not that I expected any better, but LOOK HOW THE BBC IS REPORTING today's events in Odessa:

Slime that is the BBC wrote:At least 38 people have been killed in a fire in an official building amid violence in the city of Odessa in south-west Ukraine, local police say.

The deaths came as pro-Russian protesters clashed with Ukrainian government supporters in the city.

Earlier President Oleksandr Turchynov said many separatists had been killed in a government offensive in Sloviansk.

Activists have seized scores of government buildings and detained observers in eastern Ukraine.

You were wondering who was killed? Well, keep wondering because the BBC isn't reporting it!
Goebels would be proud.

They were Terrorists who wanted to disturb the Territorial Integrity of Ukraine

... just kiddin'.

Presumably many old people fleeing the clashes died there.