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    Infantry Mobility Vehicles

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    Cyberspec
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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  Cyberspec on Sun Aug 21, 2011 1:38 pm

    medo wrote:Anyone know how many Vystrels are actually Russian MoD, interior army and border guard? After all it is very useful vehicle based on standard Kamaz truck, what is also fine for logistics. I don't think it is worse than Iveco LMV, although it is heavier and not in the same class.

    Not sure about overall numbers in all services, but I think the border guards are the main user. AFAIK it isn't in widespread use in the Army. It's more of a trial batch with a couple of units. The upgraded version is a result of the trials. The recon section of the Brigade stationed in South Osetia has them and they are equipped with a mini UAV




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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  Cyberspec on Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:50 am

    medo wrote:Is this turret stabilized to fire on the move?

    I forgot to add....yes it's stabilised.


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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  GarryB on Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:35 am

    Nice.

    Reminds me a little of the BTR-152 actually, but with fewer wheels and better internal arrangement.

    medo
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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  medo on Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:28 pm

    I don't think they would use a patrol vehicle for delivering fire on the move very often however so they might not be able to justify the expense.
    [quote]


    Maybe not that often on the move, but they could fire warning shots to the vehicle or group of people on the move and stabilization give better accuracy when firing, that you don't kill people or do border incident, when it is not needed. Also it could give better self defense capabilities for violent places like North Caucasus.

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  GarryB on Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:58 pm

    A moving target is harder to hit... particularly with unguided weapons like RPGs so I am happy for whatever the reason is.

    Hopefully they just took the BTR-82s turret as is, which means some night vision and stabilised optics too... though nothing like the BMP-3M level thermals of course.

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  Cyberspec on Thu Aug 25, 2011 7:35 am

    Came across pics of promo material for YMZ diesel engines for various vehicles, including military ones.




    - 215 hp for Tiger-M, SPM-1/2 (red)

    - 240 hp for Volk (blue)

    - 300 hp for 'perspective military vehicle' (unmarked)





    - 312 hp for SPM-3 (red)

    - 350 hp for Typhoon 4x4 (blue)

    - 450 hp for Typhoon 6x6 (green)


    Hopefully they just took the BTR-82s turret as is, which means some night vision and stabilised optics too... though nothing like the BMP-3M level thermals of course

    It's fully stabilised.

    Optical Sight? .. camera?



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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  GarryB on Thu Aug 25, 2011 7:56 am

    Well that is interesting...

    The Typhoon is the family of vehicles for the light brigades so it seems to include 4 and 6 wheeled versions. I would suspect the artillery/direct fire support/tank vehicle will be 6 wheeled... likely 120mm mortar for light artillery and perhaps 100mm/30mm BMP-3 like armament for the fire support vehicle, and 45/57mm gun for the light tank on a 6 wheeled platform.

    I would guess looking at 4 wheeled Volk and the 6 wheeled versions of the Volk we are talking about 6-7 ton for the 4 wheeled vehicle and 10-11 tons for the 6 wheeled vehicle.

    Both versions of Volk use a 250-300hp engine though the mobility requirements for Typhoon suggest that a 350hp for the 4 wheel and 450hp engine for the 6 wheel might result in similar total weights for improved off road performance compared with Volk.

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  GarryB on Thu Aug 25, 2011 8:08 am

    It's fully stabilised.

    Optical Sight? .. camera?

    Very Happy Both.

    Have seen this sort of thing on our LAV IIIs.

    It captures a forward view for the squad in the back.

    Normally a squad is closed up inside the vehicle and has little view of the outside and it can be a bit disorienting when you get out to find out what is happening and get your bearings so to speak.

    This camera basically allows them to put an LCD screen in the squad compartment at the rear so it is like being able to sit in the front seat so they can see where they are going and where they are driving so that when they have to get out they are oriented so to speak.

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  medo on Thu Aug 25, 2011 2:53 pm

    This small fixed camera is not a sight for armament, but a big closed tube left of machine gun pylon. Vistrel have four fixed small cameras looking in all four directions, so I think, they are more for driver or commander to see situation around the vehicle.

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  GarryB on Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:00 am

    They could certainly be used by the driver and commander to improve external vision.

    There are also some versions of the vehicle with extra armour plates that fold down over the windscreens for extra protection... during which the small TV cameras would be invaluable for viewing what is happening outside the vehicle and perhaps to provide visibility to get the vehicle out of an ambush area.

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  Cyberspec on Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:51 am

    6x6 Vystrel prototype


    2nd version




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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  GarryB on Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:34 am

    Interesting that the first photo has a BMP-2 turret with the sides of the vehicle re-profiled to its shape...

    and the side shot shows the two front axles are to the front with a rear axle separated at the rear... clearly showing most of the weight is in the front of the vehicle.

    The BMP-2 turret is an old model turret without the upgrades, but then considering this is a light vehicle the older sights is probably adequate, though an upgrade to the new BMP-2 turret with 4 ready to fire Kornet missiles... with Kornet EM missiles fitted this vehicle suddenly becomes rather interesting with a 10km anti aircraft capability and an 8.5km anti armour capability, plus 30mm grenade launcher and 30mm high velocity cannon...

    The last few photos showing the troop transport vehicle is interesting with its one piece ramp, while the centre of the ramp seems to have a door when there is less urgency for getting in or out.

    The troop transport vehicle has no firing positions in the sides but the BMP-2 turret armed model clearly has firing ports in the rear section and two rear doors.

    The Anti mine body shape is pretty clear in both vehicles.

    I like them.

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    VPK-3927 Volk (Wolf)

    Post  Acrab on Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:52 pm

    I do feel that this armored vehicle which is in direct competition with the IVECO LMV requires a separate thread like the IVECO. So here is it for the VPK-3927 Volk (Wolf) with an article from Autoreview.

    I'm not aware of the very latest that has happened in the light armored vehicle selection. But my strong feeling is against going for the IVECO LMV. Licence manufacturing will not just sideline the Russia's own light armored vehicles, but it will also send a negative image regarding the failure of the Russian manufactures to come up with a competitive product which will affect the likely sales in the international market also. But the first likely outcome of selection of IVECO will be claims by the western fanboys as to how bad in shape the Russian industries are.

    The competitor to the IVECO LMV are the GAZ Tigr and VPK-3927 Volk (Wolf), both of which have good spec compared to the IVECO LMV.


    Autoreview article on the Wolf - Wolf, brother of Tiger Smile

    I did not post the translate as translation is not very accurate.

















    YMZ-534 is installed longitudinally. GAZ Tiger earlier had a 3.2 litre inline-6 engine with a power of 197kW & a torque of 45kgm. After the moron Bo Anderson came as CEO of GAZ group, he probably was the sole hand behind ending the Russian R&D and powerplant development. Hs is the guy who is destroying GAZ from inside. First of his mission was to strip the "RED" from GAZ logo, he made it black, blue and now probably its plain background. The decision of licensee producing the outdated garbage from GM in the form of Sibir sedan made GAZ a laughing stock. And in all probability he was the sole hand in ousting the earlier 3.2 liter engine from the GAZ Tiger and made the way for the Cummins. That too when GAZ could have updated and improved the engine even further internally or by collaborating with AVL of Austria.





    Chief Designer of Volk, Alexander Lebedev.



    The beast showcases its 250mm-550mm ground clearance with fully lowered suspension & with fully raised position (below). Volk have the highest GC among the three armored vehicles.





    IVECO LMV


    Comparison chart for Volk, Tiger & IVECO



    From the autoreview comparison chart we can see that both the Tiger & Wolf are heavier than the IVECO by 300kg, but both these Russian beasts also have a higher load carrying capacity than the IVECO's armored vehicle. The YMZ-534 engine is little heavy compared the cummins engine and it can be seen in the comparison chart. The weight difference for the Volk & Tiger is the contribution of the YMZ engine and the related transmission. But nothing to worry and within acceptable range and the higher power output of the YMZ engine probably will nullyfy it. Hope they will reduce the weight of the YMZ & its transmission in the next series.




    VPK-3927 have load capacity of 1.5 tons


    VPK-39273 & VPK-39272 (below) have a load capacity of 2.5 tons





    Other links to the Wolf
    http://vitalykuzmin.net/?q=node/316
    http://www.armyrecognition.com/russia_russian_army_wheeled_armoured_vehicle_uk/wolf_military-industrial_company_wheeled_armoured_vehicle_data_sheet_specifications_information_inte.html
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VPK-3927_Volk

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  GarryB on Sun Oct 09, 2011 3:27 am

    There is a thread already ( http://www.russiadefence.net/t1515-kamaz-refused-to-make-iveco-armored-vehicles )about how Kamaz have refused to make the Iveco armoured vehicles because Iveco does not have production rights to all the components so if Kamaz replicated it completely it would be violating Patent law and risk being sued in western countries.

    It is good to have another thread on the Wolf however I think as it is worth looking at separately.

    I think the fundamental problem is that in the west the demand for light armoured SUVs was created some time ago when vehicles like the Hummer were used in combat situations and found to not perform well in the unarmoured versions. I think some looked at the original Hummer and thought because of its weight that it was armoured, but it wasn't.
    The solution of the armoured hummers was not great because that made them even heavier which made them even more unpopular.

    Hense the west has been working on what is basically an armoured SUV for most of the last decade.

    The Russian military saw the final product and asked where the Russian equivalent was... and all they had was BRDM like vehicles. It has taken a few years but the Russian MIC has come up with several options and they are getting better all the time.

    The Tigr with the new Russian engines is the Tigr-M and looks to be very good even in comparison with the western vehicles.

    The Iveco was singled out as being wonderful because its light ceramic armour gave it similar protection but made the vehicle much lighter.

    Well now it is not the case and also it was found that that the Iveco has a structure with ceramic armour added and it has some gaps apparently, whereas the Tigrs armour is structural and gives full coverage of the crew compartment and the engine.

    There is a video floating around of a race through deep snow with a Tigr and an Iveco and the Italian vehicle gets stuck pretty quickly due to poor ground clearance.

    The only foreign vehicle I think they should be looking at is the French PVP in the very light class, otherwise I think the Russian MIC can manage on their own.

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  GarryB on Sun Oct 09, 2011 3:33 am

    BTW the comparison chart shows max weight differences of 400kgs between the Wolf and Iveco, but the payload difference is much greater at 1.5 ton to 770kgs.

    That means with the same payload of 770kgs the Wolf has 730kgs remaining payload and if its max weight is 400kgs heavier then it is actually 330kgs lighter... with the same payload.

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  medo on Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:18 pm

    Russia produce some good armored vehicles like Tigr-M, Volk and Vystrel-M. I don't know if Vodnik is still in the game or it is abandoned, but those vehicles are good enough to do their job, that Russian MoD, MVD and FSB don't need to buy foreign vehicles.

    About payload, I think 770 kg for Iveco LMV means 5 fully equipped soldiers (150 kg per person), on the other hand 1500 kg for Tigr-M and Volk mean 10 fully equipped soldiers (150 kg per person).

    Any news about Panhard vehicles for Border guard? I hope we will soon see at least trial vehicles in russian colors.

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  Cyberspec on Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:42 am

    Domestic competitor for the Tiger Question

    Scorpion LTA
    http://www.zashchita.ru/production/openarmored/Skorpion_LTV/photo/


    And the Scorpion 2M which is currently undergoing trials as replacement for the general purpose UAZ jeep

    pics + video
    http://www.zashchita.ru/production/notarmored/Skorpion-2M/

    and a few more links

    http://www.russia-autonews.com/auto-news/2011/09/16/the-new-assault-vehicle-scorpion-which-then-change-the-russian-army-is-being-tested-video.html

    http://warsonline.info/bronetechnika/novie-rossiyskie-broneavtomobili-skorpion-lta-i-skorpion-lsha.html

    http://www.spbvoditel.ru/2011/09/16/041/

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  GarryB on Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:43 am

    Thanks.

    On a related note I have read that the new Russian engine in the Tigr-M will get "inservice" testing... in other words they will use it and any problems will be resolved in the line, with any major changes or updates made to the basic design and added to inservice vehicles.

    Certainly the most realistic testing you can get, but has the potential for problems if the engine is not as good as they seem to think it is.

    In real terms this Scorpion vehicle seems to be in the PVP class rather than Tigr-M so its future is probably quite bright if it can match the PVP in performance.

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  TheArmenian on Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:06 pm

    The Scorpion is more like an UAZ replacement than a TIGR competitor.
    By the way, the Russian Defense Ministry annouced recently that they won't be buying the good old UAZ 4x4 anymore. Seems to indicate they are switching over to this Scorpion.

    Edit: Just found this video made by Vitaly Kuzmin about the SCORPION:


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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  GarryB on Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:36 am

    Looks good... seems to be a range of vehicles from light SUV up to moderately armoured SUV that should be an interesting vehicle.

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  Cyberspec on Sun Oct 30, 2011 5:45 am

    GarryB wrote:Thanks.

    On a related note I have read that the new Russian engine in the Tigr-M will get "inservice" testing...

    Yes I saw that recently. I think they're in a hurry to introduce it in service.




    In real terms this Scorpion vehicle seems to be in the PVP class rather than Tigr-M so its future is probably quite bright if it can match the PVP in performance.

    The armoured Scorpion LTA seems to be in the same class as the heavy armoured Tiger-6A


    Here's an english language version of the Ria Novosti report on the Scorpion-2M test




    ______________________________________________________________________________


    25 kits for armoured Tigers have been supplied to China in 2011. A further order (unspecified number) has been placed with delivery expected in 2012

    http://www.itar-tass.com/c134/257029.html

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  medo on Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:35 am

    It looks Scorpion-2M will be UAZ replacement. Armored Scorpion-LTA is heavier and more near to Tiger, but I don't think they will be competitors. Scorpion-LTA could be good scout vehicle.

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  GarryB on Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:28 am

    It is pretty tricky keeping them all sorted in your head... going from none to half a dozen new vehicles is a little mind blowing.

    We have the Tigr-M with the offshoot of the Volk or Wolf.

    We now have the Scorpion-2M with the heavier Scorpion LTA.

    There is the Medved or Bear SPM-3.

    There is the BPM-97 Vystrel.

    Plus there are the foreign vehicles being considered like the Iveco M65 and the French PVP.

    They are all at the light end of the vehicle range and as such, once or if they are put into production they could probably make 500+ a year almost straight away and if there is foreign interest they could certainly ramp that up to rather more.

    I remember that the origin of the Tigr was not Russian military interest... from memory it was a Middle Eastern country that was finding the American Humvees to be too heavy and to expensive to buy and to operate, yet they were not even the armoured models. After the Tigr was developed the US upped their aid to that country so in the end it didn't even order any Tigrs, but the development was paid for.

    I remember that was why the cummins engine was included in the design for commonality with the other Humvees in service.

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  Austin on Fri Nov 25, 2011 6:20 am

    Nice Video of Kamaz Triumf


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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  GarryB on Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:06 am

    Very nice.

    That armour seems pretty interesting.

    With the door open you can see it an outer plate spaced away from the next layer that seems to be quite thick though it might be ceramic rather than conventional metal.

    This might be capable of stopping 50 cal standard ball rounds from 300-500m or so.

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