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Log inKomissarBojanchev wrote:Will we be able see just just 2 of those frigates by 2030?
Which frigates?
All of the current projects have already more than 2 laid down.
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93 posters
Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich
TR1- Posts : 5435
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Join date : 2011-12-06
Which frigates?
All of the current projects have already more than 2 laid down.
Viktor- Posts : 5796
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Join date : 2009-08-25
Age : 43
Location : Croatia
Interesting. Could it be that the Russian project 11356 will have Shilt-1 as an main air defense unit?
Interesting to know that the main problem why Shilt-1 VLS was not applied already,
was its ability to launch only one missile per 12 sec i.e. low rate missile launch.
Now that, that has been fixed along with some other things which has resulted with tighter package
(50% more missiles on the same space area) production of Shilt-1 VLS is resumed and as said in the article,
will be placed on board project 11356.
Im looking forward to see these babies installed.
Interesting to know that the main problem why Shilt-1 VLS was not applied already,
was its ability to launch only one missile per 12 sec i.e. low rate missile launch.
Now that, that has been fixed along with some other things which has resulted with tighter package
(50% more missiles on the same space area) production of Shilt-1 VLS is resumed and as said in the article,
will be placed on board project 11356.
"Calm-1"
In March 2013 at the JSC "NPP" Start "began production equipment SAM launch site" Calm-1 "for the first frigate 11,356 and Baltic factory started production of three ship missile launchers" Calibre "for the three Project 11356 frigates.
Director General "JSC" Scientific and Production Enterprise "Start" Gennady Muratshin:
"JSC" Scientific and Production Enterprise "Start" for the first time from its own funds made such a large-scale development. It is about the launch complex naval SAM "Calm-1." PU AP-90 air defense system "Calm" was a nice complex, compact, reliable. But its rate was less than 5 starts per minute, ie each start in 12 seconds. For a modern air defense system is low. Another downside: the deck was very Overall starter, which greatly affected the ship's radar signature. The new development eliminates all these disadvantages, it has become even more compact, reliable, rate increased 6 times every 2 seconds can start a rocket. This is achieved by providing the launching straight from the deck of the transport and launch container (TLC). On the deck with only flat armored cover. Below deck close to each other are placed TPK, and in the ship's Cellar PU AP-90 is now placed in a 1.5-fold more missiles in containers. When you start the use of catapult launch: the rocket is released from the WPK and start your engine at an altitude of 30 m, which excludes the impact of a jet engine on the launcher and ship structures. This improves the fire safety of the carrier.
SAM Launcher "Calm-1" is based on a modular principle. Module - a block of 12 vertically arranged TPK. And these modules in PU can do as much as is required to solve the tasks of combat ship. The module can be easily mounted on the ship. We have long struggled with the participating enterprises to create a new naval air defense system "Calm-1" (the "Center" MNIIRE "" Altair ", JSC" DNPP ") above in order to convince the Navy of the advantages of this complex. Fleet and decided to place it on the Russian Project 11356 frigates, which are laid in the shipyard "Yantar".
At JSC "NPP" Start "began production equipment launch complex SAM" Calm "for the first frigate 11,356. Debug the technology, we will be ready to ship starting modules and TPC not only for the Navy, but also foreign customers. We have good relationships with participants developing SAM. I think not only the "Start", but they are ready to deliver ADMS elements in the right amount. "
LINK
Im looking forward to see these babies installed.
TR1- Posts : 5435
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Join date : 2011-12-06
Oh man, that makes my day. I have been constantly expecting them to get old Shtil.
However seems weird they are starting production of the unit only this year, when the Grigorovich is supposed to be handed over fairly soon.
However seems weird they are starting production of the unit only this year, when the Grigorovich is supposed to be handed over fairly soon.
GarryB- Posts : 38978
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Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
Interesting. Could it be that the Russian project 11356 will have Shilt-1 as an main air defense unit?
Interesting to know that the main problem why Shilt-1 VLS was not applied already,
was its ability to launch only one missile per 12 sec i.e. low rate missile launch.
Now that, that has been fixed along with some other things which has resulted with tighter package
(50% more missiles on the same space area) production of Shilt-1 VLS is resumed and as said in the article,
I think you are misreading that my friend.
The one missile every 12 seconds is the old Arm launcher of the SA-N-7, where a missile is aimed and fired then the arm returns to facing forward and points vertically up and a new missile is aligned to the arm launcher and raised into place, then the arm lowers and turns to point in the launch direction taking 11 to 12 seconds and then the second missile can be launched.
They also mention that the arm launcher is not very stealthy.
In comparison the vertical launch Shtil-1 doesn't need all the missile handling equipment and the rotary magazines of missiles, or the missile lift to raise missiles onto the arm launcher. All missiles are ready to launch and ignite their motors about 30m above the deck so the damage to the ship is greatly reduced.
I rather suspect that after fitting it into this new destroyer that they might consider using it to upgrade the Sovremmeniys at some future date (4-6 years time perhaps).
The vertical tube launchers are much simpler and cheaper than an arm launcher with mechanised under deck magazine with fewer moving parts and more missiles per square metre too.
Viktor- Posts : 5796
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Join date : 2009-08-25
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Location : Croatia
You are right Garry. I misread myself.
Excitement that we will probably see Shilt-1 VLS on board had a lot to do with it.
In 2012 and 2011 Almaz-Antej report I remember reading, that they where actively working on Shilt-1 VLS. I guess now all work is done.
So we can expect one setup of 36 missile pack instead of M-22. In case Russian Navy decides to remove RBU-6000
one more pack of 36 missiles would fit in (but that would not likely happen).
Huge system 5.5m x 5.5m x 7.4m and weights 30 ton without missiles
Excitement that we will probably see Shilt-1 VLS on board had a lot to do with it.
In 2012 and 2011 Almaz-Antej report I remember reading, that they where actively working on Shilt-1 VLS. I guess now all work is done.
So we can expect one setup of 36 missile pack instead of M-22. In case Russian Navy decides to remove RBU-6000
one more pack of 36 missiles would fit in (but that would not likely happen).
Huge system 5.5m x 5.5m x 7.4m and weights 30 ton without missiles
GarryB- Posts : 38978
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Huge system 5.5m x 5.5m x 7.4m and weights 30 ton without missiles
That is nothing in terms of weight for a ship... each turret on an Iowa class battleship weight more than many corvettes... well over 1,500 tons... each barrel weighed over 100 tons.
So we can expect one setup of 36 missile pack instead of M-22. In case Russian Navy decides to remove RBU-6000
one more pack of 36 missiles would fit in (but that would not likely happen).
Not that unlikely... on many small ships the RBUs have been replaced with PAKET...
Will be interesting to see what they come up with... especially if it can be designed to drop in to existing ships with the old shtil system as an upgrade... perhaps that explains the delay... they might be working on two versions that use the same missiles and electronics... one for new vessels and one to fit into old vessels to replace the old systems. I suspect the new systems will just be plug and play types that can be plugged into the systems network and can be controlled with standard consoles. The older system likely had dedicated consoles and systems and sensors, so I suspect these could be replaced with new sensor/console standard systems when the new bin launchers are added.
TR1- Posts : 5435
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Forget the Iowa, the Yamato had turrets that weighed 2700+ tons!
:O
:O
GarryB- Posts : 38978
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The US... not the best... just better marketing... 
Viktor- Posts : 5796
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- Post n°24
In tree days construction of the 4th project 11356 will begin
Viktor Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:14 pm
In tree days construction of the 4th project 11356 will begin
Frigate "Admiral Butakov" start building April 18
"Eighteenth-April the ceremony of the fourth body in a series of frigates being built for the Navy of Russia. Ship was named" Admiral Butakov "- said Michael
MOSCOW, April 15 - RIA Novosti. Bookmark the body of the fourth Project 11356 frigates for the Navy of the Russian Federation, which was postponed from October 2012, will be held in Kaliningrad on April 18 at the Baltic Shipyard (CCL) "Amber", told reporters in the press Company secretary Sergei Mikhailov.
"Eighteenth-April the ceremony of the fourth body in a series of frigates being built for the Navy of Russia. Ship was named" Admiral Butakov "- said Mikhailov.
It is expected that in the opening ceremony will be attended by Deputy Defense Minister Yuri Borisov, Director of the shipbuilding and marine equipment of the Ministry of Industry and Trade Leonid Strugov, the president of the United Shipbuilding Corporation Andrew Diachkov.
"For two contracts signed with the Ministry of Defence, Shipyard" Yantar "build six patrol ships (frigates) 11356 Development JSC" Northern Design Bureau. "Lead ship of this series, the frigate" Admiral Grigorovich, "was laid at the plant Dec. 18 2010, the second ship "Admiral Essen" - July 8, 2011, the third, "Admiral Makarov" - February 29, 2012. Now comes the formation of their hulls. Six Russian frigates Shipyard "Yantar" has to convey to the Navy in 2014-16 years "- reminded Mikhailov.
LINK
Austin- Posts : 7617
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- Post n°25
The current Krivak being built for Russia , similar to Indian Talwar class frigate
Austin Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:42 pm
The current Krivak being built for Russia , similar to Indian Talwar class frigate , Will it have a Single Arm Shtil-1 launcher or VLS Shtil.
What is the difference expected beween Indian and Russian frigate.
What is the difference expected beween Indian and Russian frigate.
Viktor- Posts : 5796
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Austin wrote:The current Krivak being built for Russia , similar to Indian Talwar class frigate , Will it have a Single Arm Shtil-1 launcher or VLS Shtil.
What is the difference expected beween Indian and Russian frigate.
Yup, VLS Shtil is confirmed. Im not aware about other differences and as those ships are ordered as stop gap measure.
GarryB- Posts : 38978
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KASHTAN performance v/s RAM
And Naval Pantsir-S1 is able to engage 4 targets at once starting at 20km range... so four kills clustered in the 18-20km zone, four more at presumably the 12-14km zone, then assuming 12 missiles ready to fire four more targets hit at the 6-8km zone based on the Kashtans rate of engagement with missiles, followed by looking at the rate of engagement for the guns a further kill at 3km and at 2km and then likely at 1.2km and possibly at 500m because the guns become more effective as the target gets closer.
That would equate to about 16 targets...
What is the difference expected beween Indian and Russian frigate.
Where possible the Russian vessels will likely try to use common components standard on their other new vessels while maintaining low risk.
This means that the problems with Redut means Shtil will be used but it will be vertical launch Shtil-1 rather than the old arm launcher.
Vertical launch tubes offer greater rate of fire and fewer moving parts and simplified design and greater missile capacity with less complication.
Austin- Posts : 7617
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Viktor wrote:Austin wrote:The current Krivak being built for Russia , similar to Indian Talwar class frigate , Will it have a Single Arm Shtil-1 launcher or VLS Shtil.
What is the difference expected beween Indian and Russian frigate.
Yup, VLS Shtil is confirmed. Im not aware about other differences and as those ships are ordered as stop gap measure.
Any idea how many VLS launchers for Shtil-1 on Russian Krivak ? Any pictures of the launchers ?
Also any news of Brahmos getting inducted on Russian ships ?
TR1- Posts : 5435
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I am still very worried it might be non VLS shtil. Hopefully it has the expanded UKSK numbers though (16), as the plaque seemed to indicate.
Grigorovich will be launched this year, so we will know hopefully any month now.
Grigorovich will be launched this year, so we will know hopefully any month now.
xeno- Posts : 237
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Join date : 2013-02-04
Austin wrote:Viktor wrote:Austin wrote:The current Krivak being built for Russia , similar to Indian Talwar class frigate , Will it have a Single Arm Shtil-1 launcher or VLS Shtil.
What is the difference expected beween Indian and Russian frigate.
Yup, VLS Shtil is confirmed. Im not aware about other differences and as those ships are ordered as stop gap measure.
Any idea how many VLS launchers for Shtil-1 on Russian Krivak ? Any pictures of the launchers ?
Also any news of Brahmos getting inducted on Russian ships ?
36 VLS Shtil on Russian 11356. You guys don't worry about Russian version 11356, it is a low end (of course still very powerfull) compared to 22350 and it will be fine. BTW, the upper structure of 11356 will also be modified(Mast etc).
And no Brahmos on Russian ships, yes, I know Indian friends are complaining Russians not purchasing these missile as per previous arrangement of agreement when the Joint-venture was setup.
Because Brahmos has max range <290km to meeting the exportation law, unless Russians are willing to buy these missiles and upgrade them to Onix standard (max range >300km), which is very stupid from the points of view of economy and technology.
Even Russians do buy some, which is very unlikely, it is to pacify the complaint from Indian friends for political purpose.
Notio- Posts : 16
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It would seem to me that according to this pic the first ship, Admiral Grigorovich, will have the arm, but starting with Admiral Essen it is replaced by the VLS. I guess we will find out soon enough.
GarryB- Posts : 38978
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- Post n°32
The current Krivak being built for Russia , similar to Indian Talwar class frigate , Will it have a Single Arm Shtil-1 launcher or VLS Shtil.
GarryB Thu Jul 04, 2013 3:17 am
An important point to keep in mind with the vertical launch Shtil-1 is that it should take up the same space as the arm launcher but not require the arm launcher nor the under deck rotating missile handling equipment that lifts missiles and places them into position to be lifted up to the arm launcher ready to fire.
The bin launchers are much simpler and much cheaper and much more energy efficient as all missiles are ready to launch and don't have to be physically moved into position for launch.
They should actually be cheaper to install and will likely be offered as an upgrade for existing arm launcher users and the ongoing savings in maintainence should result in savings on maintainence and reliability in operation.
An Arm launcher is a single point of failure that can make all the missiles stored unusable.
The bin launchers are much simpler and much cheaper and much more energy efficient as all missiles are ready to launch and don't have to be physically moved into position for launch.
They should actually be cheaper to install and will likely be offered as an upgrade for existing arm launcher users and the ongoing savings in maintainence should result in savings on maintainence and reliability in operation.
An Arm launcher is a single point of failure that can make all the missiles stored unusable.
TR1- Posts : 5435
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http://s001.radikal.ru/i196/1307/70/d82226579ada.jpg
Recent pic, Yantar.
Admiral Essen has made impressive pace, almost caught up with Grigorovich.
Grigorovich has not made much progress over past 6 months at all, so that is somewhat disappointing.
However all the Indian boats are gone now, so maybe they can focus all energy on launching it.
Recent pic, Yantar.
Admiral Essen has made impressive pace, almost caught up with Grigorovich.
Grigorovich has not made much progress over past 6 months at all, so that is somewhat disappointing.
However all the Indian boats are gone now, so maybe they can focus all energy on launching it.
George1- Posts : 18315
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Russia Lays Down New Frigate for Black Sea Fleet
The official ceremony, attended by Deputy Commander of the Baltic Fleet, Rear Admiral Sergei Popov, was held Friday, according to Baltic Reporter online news portal.
The Admiral Butakov is the fourth in a series of six Project 11356, or Admiral Grigorovich-class, frigates for delivery to the Black Sea Fleet between 2014 and 2016 under a contract with the Defense Ministry.
The lead warship in the series, the Admiral Grigorovich, was laid down in December 2010, the second, the Admiral Essen, in July 2011 and the third, the Admiral Makarov, in February 2012.
The Project 11356 frigates, displacing 3,850 tons are designed for anti-ship and anti-submarine warfare on the high seas, and for anti-aircraft operations, both independently and as an escort ship.
The ships are armed with an eight-cell launcher for Kalibr and Klub (3M54E) anti-ship and surface-to-surface missiles, a 100-mm main gun, Kashtan gun/missile close-in air defense systems, Shtil vertical-launch air defense missile systems, two torpedo tubes, an anti-submarine rocket system and a Ka-28 or Ka-31 helicopter, according to globalsecurity.org and rusnavy.com.
TheArmenian- Posts : 1880
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The rumoured names of the 7th, 8th and 9th Project 11356 class frigates.
Admiral Kolchak
Admiral Lazarev
Admiral Klokachev
Admiral Kolchak
Admiral Lazarev
Admiral Klokachev
George1- Posts : 18315
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TheArmenian wrote:The rumoured names of the 7th, 8th and 9th Project 11356 class frigates.
Admiral Kolchak
Admiral Lazarev
Admiral Klokachev
There will be 3 more? i thought were only 6 for black sea fleet
Viktor- Posts : 5796
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Another confirmation (better safe than sorry )
All Russian project 11356 will have Shilt-1 VLS
)All Russian project 11356 will have Shilt-1 VLS
The first sets of the latest SAM "Calm" Russian Navy will receive the 2014
MOSCOW, Sept. 23 - RIA Novosti. Russian Navy in 2014, will receive the first modular sets of the latest anti-missile (SAM) "Calm" under construction for a series of six frigates of Project 11356, told RIA Novosti on Monday, CEO of the holding "Aviation" Maxim Kuzyuk .
"Calm" is a complex air defense ships medium range. According Kuzyuk, the complex is able to deal with any existing and future aircraft weapons.
"Supplies to the Russian Navy will begin in 2014. We plan to put six sets of SAM" Calm "for ships (Project 11356) to 2016", - said Kuzyuk.
One of the main advantages of "Calm" in comparison with "old" complexes, according to the CEO of the holding is its rate of fire, since the interval between the start of rockets is less than two seconds.
"Innovative solutions <...> allow you to post" Calm "on ships of various tonnage, adding a number of modules (one module 12 missiles.) The original technical solution allows the use of small rockets as well as the middle class" - added Kuzyuk.
In the latest SAM launcher provides vertical launch, in which the rocket is released from the powder catapult transport and launch container to a height of 25 meters, and has already started at this height boosters.
LINK
Austin- Posts : 7617
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Not Bad , Hope they go for 3 more ships of this class , India is planning to go for 3 more of this class.
sepheronx- Posts : 8532
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Right now, its important that Russia gets these ships as they need more ships in the water. Plus, these ships are pretty heavy hitters and with shtil-1, they will have strong defence. So they should order more. I wonder if they can be upgraded to polimont-redut later on?Austin wrote:Not Bad , Hope they go for 3 more ships of this class , India is planning to go for 3 more of this class.
TR1- Posts : 5435
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Thank god for small favors. Would be a shame if these ships (which will serve decades!) were under-armed due to expediency.Viktor wrote:Another confirmation (better safe than sorry
All Russian project 11356 will have Shilt-1 VLS
The first sets of the latest SAM "Calm" Russian Navy will receive the 2014
MOSCOW, Sept. 23 - RIA Novosti. Russian Navy in 2014, will receive the first modular sets of the latest anti-missile (SAM) "Calm" under construction for a series of six frigates of Project 11356, told RIA Novosti on Monday, CEO of the holding "Aviation" Maxim Kuzyuk .
"Calm" is a complex air defense ships medium range. According Kuzyuk, the complex is able to deal with any existing and future aircraft weapons.
"Supplies to the Russian Navy will begin in 2014. We plan to put six sets of SAM" Calm "for ships (Project 11356) to 2016", - said Kuzyuk.
One of the main advantages of "Calm" in comparison with "old" complexes, according to the CEO of the holding is its rate of fire, since the interval between the start of rockets is less than two seconds.
"Innovative solutions <...> allow you to post" Calm "on ships of various tonnage, adding a number of modules (one module 12 missiles.) The original technical solution allows the use of small rockets as well as the middle class" - added Kuzyuk.
In the latest SAM launcher provides vertical launch, in which the rocket is released from the powder catapult transport and launch container to a height of 25 meters, and has already started at this height boosters.
LINK
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