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    Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:53 am

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    Post  GarryB on Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:32 am

    unless we are talking about 30km shore bombardment. 70km ammo is not really cheaper then Hermes missile.

    Well to be fair we cannot really tell the price of either, but as the 152mm shell will have GLONASS guidance and ten years ago when first reported was described as being a 1,000 dollar US fuse with fins attached to standard rounds, I would expect it might be cheaper than a Hermes missile because solid rocket fuel is not cheap, and thermal optical and MMW radar seekers are not cheap either...

    Hermes =/= Pantsir AAM.

    Hermes is a SSM, while Pantsir is a SAM, that can also be used as a SSM... but I would suggest that certain terminal guidance options for Hermes would be conducive to creating an AAM in its air launched model, which would make the ground launched version a SAM...

    It would be rather expensive to fill what would equate to a Grad battery with Hermes, but they might be a useful addition to take out specific targets.


    Price? Ramjet 152km wont be cheap either same class Id say. Just Hermes is 2x range. Last but not least it c an also work in salvos but 152mm cannot.

    I rather doubt the 70km range Hermes is ramjet powered... more likely it probably has a very aerodynamic shape and reduced warhead size to increase flight range... probably with base bleed as well.

    152mm shells would be ideal for salvoes... if you need salvoes then you probably don't need extreme precision and a bit of spread would be useful.

    Solid rocket fuel is not cheap either and rockets are not efficient if they have expensive components like seekers and autopilots.

    Against point targets Hermes makes sense if you don't have room for a 152mm turret, but against area targets that need salvoes then use Smerch...

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    Post  Hole on Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:12 am

    Best option would be if the Hermes fits into the magazine of the Pantsir. You could fit smaller boats (Osa-size) with a Pantsir mount and put in a mix of Pantsir and Hermes missiles. Good air defence + capability to attack sea/land targets. Like the old SM-1 launcher of the Perry class.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:03 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    unless we are talking about 30km shore bombardment.   70km ammo is not really cheaper then Hermes missile.

    Well to be fair we cannot really tell the price of either, but as the 152mm shell will have GLONASS guidance and ten years ago when first reported was described as being a 1,000 dollar US fuse with fins attached to standard rounds, I would expect it might be cheaper than a Hermes missile because solid rocket fuel is not cheap, and thermal optical and MMW radar seekers are not cheap either...


    $1,000? unlikely, in Russia it can be cheaper but not 800 times:
    In 2016, the Navy decided not to buy the 155mm Long-Range Land Attack Projectile (LRLAP) round, given its exorbitant cost of $800,000 per shell.
    https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/21531/yes-this-is-a-ramjet-powered-artillery-shell-and-it-could-be-a-game-changer



    GB wrote:.It would be rather expensive to fill what would equate to a Grad battery with Hermes, but they might be a useful addition to take out specific targets.

    precisely same as ramjet 152mm projectiles wont replace good old unguided/unpowered ones






    Price? Ramjet 152km wont be cheap either same class Id say. Just Hermes is 2x range.  Last but not least it c an also work in salvos but 152mm cannot.
    I rather doubt the 70km range Hermes is ramjet powered... more likely it probably has a very aerodynamic shape and reduced warhead size to increase flight range... probably with base bleed as well.

    152mm shells would be ideal for salvoes... if you need salvoes then you probably don't need extreme precision and a bit of spread would be useful.

    Solid rocket fuel is not cheap either and rockets are not efficient if they have expensive components like seekers and autopilots.

    [/quote]

    #800,l000 per ramjet projectile in salvos? whoa
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:54 am

    Best option would be if the Hermes fits into the magazine of the Pantsir. You could fit smaller boats (Osa-size) with a Pantsir mount and put in a mix of Pantsir and Hermes missiles. Good air defence + capability to attack sea/land targets. Like the old SM-1 launcher of the Perry class.

    With the new model Pantsir with 30km range and the bigger booster to accelerate it to about 1.7km/s on launch I would suspect it is the same size of bigger than Hermes already so there should be very little problem in loading Hermes into Pantsir... but in most situations Pantsir missiles already get the job done and would be much cheaper than Hermes because they are command guided and dont have terminal guidance.



    $1,000? unlikely, in Russia it can be cheaper but not 800 times:

    From Oct 2011:

    https://iz.ru/news/504342

    Moscow design Bureau "Compass" — one of the major Russian developers of navigation for the Armed forces — successfully tested navigation GLONASS module for artillery ammunition.

    The new module created in the framework of the program "Dynamics", can be installed on new shells, and on pre-existing, told "Izvestia" a source in the defense Ministry.

    Module development "Compass" can be screwed to the head of the artillery shells of 152 mm caliber and above, a regular place of the fuse. It includes a combined fuse, receiver of signals of GLONASS and control surfaces — aerodynamic control surfaces, which are arranged in flight and adjust the trajectory of the projectile, — said the interlocutor of "Izvestia".

    Unlike shells controlled by a laser beam, the projectile with the module "Dynamics" does not depend on weather conditions and requires no external illumination of target, which allows you to quickly hit point targets with known coordinates. Circular error probable modernized so the projectile does not exceed 10 m, whereas for conventional 152-mm shells at long range shooting, it may reach 100 m and more.

    The Russian version of the modernization of ammunition allows you to make bombs with satellite guidance is much cheaper than the 155-mm projectile American Excalibur is guided by GPS. This missile, equipped with a gas generator and built-in wheels, is worth more than $80 thousand is Expected that a larger series, its price must fall to $50 thousand Domestic module which allows to upgrade the existing warehouse shells, will cost slightly more than $1 thousand, explained "Izvestia" a source in the military-industrial complex.

    Module can be used for old shells and new, but in any case it will be much cheaper than the American product. Russian scientists were able to achieve sustainable GLONASS signal for rotating the projectile, while the American "Excalibur" must stop its rotation to get a navigation signal. This greatly complicates and increases the cost of its construction, — said the interlocutor of the newspaper.

    According to the chief editor of the specialized magazine "Arsenal" Victor Murakhovski, the new Russian design — a real revolution in artillery.

    — With the new shell can be reused to reduce the consumption of ammunition. When firing conventional shells to a platoon strong point to 1.8 thousand have shells, and then take ten times less. The accuracy of the modernized shells does not fall with distance — it will be the same regardless of whether we shoot for 5 km or 50 km away. This allows you to instantly hit any target, the main thing — to know their coordinates, which can be obtained from reconnaissance drones and other sources — said the expert.

    Murakhovski also noted that the low price of the module allows you to quickly equip the artillery units a large number of guided missiles, with no additional upgrades guns themselves is not required.

    However, the head of the military forecasting Center Anatoly Tsyganok said that for the effective use of such shells in the army lacks precision targeting.

    In — depth exploration solves other problems, and none of its guidance on long-range artillery will not detract. Satellite controls all the battlefield and also will not re-tune for each weapon, — said Tsyganok.

    In his opinion, to direct precision missiles have unmanned spy planes, which in the Russian army yet.


    precisely same as ramjet 152mm projectiles wont replace good old unguided/unpowered ones

    They don't have to.... the guidance system above is a new electronic fuse with control surfaces attached to the nose of old and new rounds...

    The new 70km rounds are not ramjet assisted, they are standard long range base bleed rounds from a longer barrel gun with a big powder charge... ramjet and scramjet powered models should manage much better range performance...

    I rather doubt the 70km range Hermes is ramjet powered... more likely it probably has a very aerodynamic shape and reduced warhead size to increase flight range... probably with base bleed as well.

    Hermes has been described as being 100km range max but that is with a ballistic lofted trajectory and is not really confirmed... ATM it is a 25km + range missile for helos...

    #800,l000 per ramjet projectile in salvos? whoa

    43kg 152mm artillery shells with a $1K dollar nose mounted fuse and guidance system could easily be volley fired out to 70km range in the new long barrel Coalition artillery system relatively cheaply.
    dino00
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    Post  dino00 on Sat Apr 06, 2019 7:05 pm

    VKS RF tested the newest air defense system "Pantsir-SM"

    The Russian aerospace troops tested the latest Pantsir-SM anti-aircraft missile and cannon complex, said the commander of the air defense forces, the deputy commander-in-chief of the VKS, Lieutenant General Yuri Grekhov.

    As the general-lieutenant noted, the complex showed itself well, in particular, against unmanned aerial vehicles and other ultra-small targets.

    The Pantsir-SM complex, the latest version of the Pantsir ZRPK, has shown its high efficiency in ultra-small quadcopter-type targets,” said Sins on Echo of Moscow

    https://tvzvezda.ru/news/opk/content/201904061955-87tq.htm
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    Post  dino00 on Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:29 pm

    An article with the idea of the four small missiles in one tube in pantsir-SM, it is a massive amount of ready to fire missiles.
    The article is about the trend for more missiles per system.

    A group of four cars will be able to repel an attack of air attacks simultaneously from all directions, or concentrate fire on the most threatened site. Four Pantsir-SM SAMs with only missile weapons can carry a total of 48 missiles with a firing range of 40 km and 192 Gvozd missiles with an estimated firing range of 10-15 km. The combination of 240 ground-to-air missiles and a large number of guidance channels will allow four Pantsir-SM air defense systems to repel the enemy’s massive fire attack, for example, a link from four F-15E fighter-bombers with 28 GBU GBU-53B on each or a volley of eight salvo fire systems M270 MLRS

    https://topwar.ru/156999-proryv-pvo-prevysheniem-ee-vozmozhnostej-po-perehvatu-celej-puti-reshenija.html

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