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    Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

    Viktor
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    Post  Viktor on Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:25 pm

    UAE and Algeria is done - Iraq is next I presume  thumbsup 

    Tula KBP completed delivery ZRPK "Carapace" in the UAE and Algeria
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    Post  sheytanelkebir on Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:39 am

    if the Iraqi deal is for $2.5Bn... then they are buying 40 "systems" and not 40 "firing units"... each system consisting of 4 firing units. Thus the unit price Iraqis pay is about $15.7M, and total number of firing units is about 160. This number matches the number of OSA and ROLAND-II firing units that Iraq used to operate before 2003.
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    Post  TR1 on Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:44 am

    That would be insane.

    However they usually refer to the quantity in batteries, which apparently consist of 6 vehicle each. I am inclined to think in Iraq's case its 40 firing vehicles.

    We have yet to see the price split of Iraq's mega contract, so I have trouble believing over half of it is for the Pantsir. Especially when the systems individual rounds are so cheap.
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    Post  sheytanelkebir on Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:52 am

    they are starting from 0. and that's the number of "similar" systems (ZRK ROMB and ROLAND II ... about 50 ROMB and 127 ROLAND-II) they operated in the past for basic short range air defence. number sounds very reasonable to me.
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    Post  TR1 on Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:06 am

    Is the 4.3 billion dollar contract just for Mi-28s and Pantsir? Are the other purchases you mentioned outside of that deal?

    UAE got 50 vehicles for 700 million. With inflation that is around 950 million, so for 2.5 billion Iraq could get at least 130 vehicles. I guess 40 units seems unlikely unless the 2.5 billion is for another customer...which seems unlikely.

    Either way, huge deal. One of biggest in recent history in terms of numbers.

    What is throwing me off is media (i know, i know) constantly referring to 40 or 48 vehicles. BMPDs link implies a battery is 6 vehicles, but if we count it like that, 240+ vehicles seems too high.
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    Post  sheytanelkebir on Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:08 am

    I don't know. the deal is very secretive. just going by what gets released in drips and drabs.
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    Post  TheArmenian on Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:57 am

    Apart from the 4 Mi-35 helicopters that we already saw in action, what else has been delivered from Russia to Iraq?
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    Post  sheytanelkebir on Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:01 pm

    TheArmenian wrote:Apart from the 4 Mi-35 helicopters that we already saw in action, what else has been delivered from Russia to Iraq?

    we don't know.
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    Post  medo on Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:03 pm

    http://lenta.ru/news/2014/02/10/pancir/

    In April-May will start testing of 3 Pantsirs in Arctic region in Novosibirsk icelands.
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    Post  Viktor on Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:58 pm

    Very Happy 

    Pantsir-S1 News Thread: - Page 20 NBe6XfV
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    Post  sheytanelkebir on Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:00 pm

    lets hope that's not facing the ski jumping slope in "auto" mode Very Happy
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    Post  AlfaT8 on Thu Feb 13, 2014 7:40 pm

    Viktor wrote:Very Happy 

    Pantsir-S1 News Thread: - Page 20 NBe6XfV
    Where's the arctic camo ??  confused 
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    Post  medo on Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:43 pm

    Viktor wrote:Very Happy 

    Pantsir-S1 News Thread: - Page 20 NBe6XfV

    Let's hope, that Pantsir will not have to do its firework with its guns. On the other hand thermal imager and guns are good deterrence against terrorists, which could hide in forest. Let them stay silent. Any round fired from it will mean big troubles.
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:33 am

    Some interesting Pantsir news:

    For the "shell" Winter Olympic Games in Sochi will not be the last major sporting events. Brazil intends to buy Russia complexes "Armour-C1."

    Rostec Brazil offered a comprehensive program "Safe City". In the framework of Russia will supply complexes "Armour", which "will cover" sports venues of the World Cup in 2014 and 2016 Olympics in Rio de Janeiro.

    Now the Russian Army 35 complexes "Armour-C1." It is expected that 2017 will be "shell" of the new generation. New "shell" will be modified for all branches of the Armed Forces of Russia. In particular, the Ministry of Defense is very interested in a marine complex. We have already decided that under the sea "Armour" will modernize a number of destroyers and other large ships. In addition, in the interests of Russian Ground Forces and airborne troops developed a modification of the anti-aircraft missile and gun complex "Armour" crawler based on KAMAZ "Typhoon-K" .


    http://rostec.ru/news/4191
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    Post  flamming_python on Sat Feb 15, 2014 2:06 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:Some interesting Pantsir news:

    For the "shell" Winter Olympic Games in Sochi will not be the last major sporting events. Brazil intends to buy Russia complexes "Armour-C1."

    Rostec Brazil offered a comprehensive program "Safe City". In the framework of Russia will supply complexes "Armour", which "will cover" sports venues of the World Cup in 2014 and 2016 Olympics in Rio de Janeiro.

    Now the Russian Army 35 complexes "Armour-C1." It is expected that 2017 will be "shell" of the new generation. New "shell" will be modified for all branches of the Armed Forces of Russia. In particular, the Ministry of Defense is very interested in a marine complex. We have already decided that under the sea "Armour" will modernize a number of destroyers and other large ships. In addition, in the interests of Russian Ground Forces and airborne troops developed a modification of the anti-aircraft missile and gun complex "Armour" crawler based on KAMAZ "Typhoon-K" .


    http://rostec.ru/news/4191

    Pantsir based on the Typhoon-K for the VDV?

    Wat?

    Just the baseline Typhoon-K already tops 20 tons. Fitting it with a Pantsir will add tons more. How do they intend to airdrop this thing?
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sat Feb 15, 2014 2:17 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:Some interesting Pantsir news:

    For the "shell" Winter Olympic Games in Sochi will not be the last major sporting events. Brazil intends to buy Russia complexes "Armour-C1."

    Rostec Brazil offered a comprehensive program "Safe City". In the framework of Russia will supply complexes "Armour", which "will cover" sports venues of the World Cup in 2014 and 2016 Olympics in Rio de Janeiro.

    Now the Russian Army 35 complexes "Armour-C1." It is expected that 2017 will be "shell" of the new generation. New "shell" will be modified for all branches of the Armed Forces of Russia. In particular, the Ministry of Defense is very interested in a marine complex. We have already decided that under the sea "Armour" will modernize a number of destroyers and other large ships. In addition, in the interests of Russian Ground Forces and airborne troops developed a modification of the anti-aircraft missile and gun complex "Armour" crawler based on KAMAZ "Typhoon-K" .


    http://rostec.ru/news/4191

    Pantsir based on the Typhoon-K for the VDV?

    Wat?

    Just the baseline Typhoon-K already tops 20 tons. Fitting it with a Pantsir will add tons more. How do they intend to airdrop this thing?

    Not sure, but maybe for the Typhoon version they could have an automatic loading system with 10 or 20 extra missiles within the main body of the truck. BTW I can't wait to see Pantsirs at the world cup and at the Summer Olympics! russia 
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    Post  Viktor on Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:29 pm

    Pancir-S1 and BUK in Sochi

    Pantsir-S1 News Thread: - Page 20 QN18sUn

    LINK
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:46 am

    I suspect Typhoon-K means Typhoon developed by Kamaz, so we are not talking about the Taifun 20 ton truck, we are talking about the 4-6 wheeled Typhoon family in the 10-15 ton class.

    May Day parades are just going to be so fascinating from next year...
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    Post  Viktor on Sun Feb 16, 2014 5:11 pm

    18 missiles on Pancir-S1 for India  Very Happy russia 

    Pantsir-S1 News Thread: - Page 20 9DoQ03z
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    Post  mack8 on Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:47 pm

    Nice, so it looks like the newer versions of Pantsir will dispense with the guns.
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    Post  TR1 on Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:18 pm

    The guns still appear to be there, look @ the black bar on the side of the missiles.
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    Post  GarryB on Mon Feb 17, 2014 8:07 am

    I don't see any guns.

    I suspect if the Army is adopting 57mm guns with laser guided shells that it might eclipse the 30mm shell in the air defence role...

    Or they might have split the functions and have a dedicated gun vehicle and a dedicated missile vehicle.
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Mon Feb 17, 2014 8:20 am

    GarryB wrote:I don't see any guns.

    I suspect if the Army is adopting 57mm guns with laser guided shells that it might eclipse the 30mm shell in the air defence role...

    Or they might have split the functions and have a dedicated gun vehicle and a dedicated missile vehicle.

    Yeah, the 57 mm canon could be for slower missile carrying targets like UCAV's and helicopters, and the missiles will be used against other missiles. Question, is it possible that we could see a modernized version of the ZSU-57-2, instead of two barrels, but with one barrel and a set of missiles?
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    Post  GarryB on Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:00 am

    The 57mm rounds were replaced by 23mm shells because the higher rate of fire meant a higher hit probability with more round per second being fired at the target.

    The 23mm rounds increased hit probability the same way a shotgun blast of hundreds of pellets is more likely to hit a small fast moving and manouvering target than a single projectile even if that single projectile is much heavier.

    The switch to 30mm was to increase hitting power and extend effective range.

    A shift back to 57mm is only really practical with laser guided shells increasing hit probability per shell to a very high level of confidence.

    Ironically small elusive targets should be more effectively engaged by guided shells and the heavier calibre means greatly extending the effective range against even very small targets.

    Needless to say a long burst of 30mm cannon shells would be needed to reliably defeat a small target like a UAV, but a single guided 57mm shell could do the same job which means a 57mm gun would be better equipped to deal with lots of targets and at much greater range than a 30mm calibre system.

    The higher cost of each shell will be offset by the fact that far fewer would be needed to be used and the much heavier shell weight means more effect on target and fewer hits needed to take out heavier targets like helicopters.

    Actually I would think if the new gun is to be used on their new IFVs to deal with heavily armoured enemy IFVs then it might make sense to have a separate vehicle armed with a single gun and extra ammo in the troop compartment of the IFV and of course loaded with mostly laser guided shells plus a few armour piercing and a few HE for other purposes.

    These vehicles could receive data directly from the missile vehicles it will operate with so it does not need its own radar.

    The special optical targeting systems with laser target markers would be sufficient to guide the shells and target aircraft totally passively in terms of radio and radar frequencies.

    Attempts to block the system using DIRCMs could be dealt with using laser beam riding shells as well as laser homing shells.

    Of course with laser homing shells the target would not be marked till the shell is about 1 second away from impact and side thruster rockets can fire to put the shell on target in the last second... very little time for the target to react effectively.
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    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Sat Feb 22, 2014 2:32 am

    GarryB wrote:I don't see any guns.

    I suspect if the Army is adopting 57mm guns with laser guided shells that it might eclipse the 30mm shell in the air defence role...

    Or they might have split the functions and have a dedicated gun vehicle and a dedicated missile vehicle.
    As a modular system, the Pantsir' family has many options of missile types, missile numbers, gun types and numbers, and radar and other sensor types and numbers, but the fact that they are still calling this variant an "ADMGS" might indicate that TR1 is right.

    The guns might just be 2A72 guns here.

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