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    Mistral News thread

    Post  Russian Patriot on Wed Aug 05, 2009 2:09 am

    Russia in talks on buying French warship
    RIA Novosti

    18:33 04/08/2009 MOSCOW, August 4 (RIA Novosti) - Russia is discussing the purchase of a French Mistral-class amphibious assault ship worth between 300 and 400 million euros ($430-580 mln), a high-ranking source close to the talks said Tuesday.

    "Such talks are being held at the level of experts; the Russian side is represented by the Navy, the United Shipbuilding Corporation, and plants' representatives. In September we will provide a final conclusion for the Russian Defense Ministry," the source told RIA Novosti.

    Earlier a French business daily, La Tribune, said Russia is planning to purchase a Mistral class assault ship from France. The purchase, if successful, would be the first large-scale arms import deal concluded by Russia since the collapse of the Soviet Union.

    Russia first expressed an interest in bilateral cooperation with France in naval equipment and technology in 2008, when Navy chief Adm. Vladimir Vysotsky visited the Euronaval 2008 arms show in France.

    The admiral said at the time that the Russian Navy was interested in "joint research and also direct purchases of French naval equipment."

    According to military sources, the possibility of buying a Mistral class amphibious assault ship was discussed at the naval show in St. Petersburg in June this year.

    A Mistral class ship is capable of transporting and deploying 16 helicopters, four landing barges, up to 70 vehicles including 13 main battle tanks, and 450 soldiers. The ship is equipped with a 69-bed hospital.

    The Russian Kommersant business daily confirmed on Tuesday the possibility of the deal, but said Russian military experts were skeptical about it.

    "The Russian Navy lacks the means to finance even the production of corvettes and missile boats, let alone the purchase of large combat ships," the paper quoted Mikhail Barabanov, science editor of the Eksport Vooruzheny (Arms Export) journal, as saying.

    Ruslan Pukhov, director of the Moscow-based Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies, said "although the practice of arms imports will become more common in Russia in the future, the Mistral deal is rather questionable from a military standpoint, as well as Russia's hopes for the transfer of advanced technologies from France."

    Russia's current weapons procurement program through 2015 does not envision construction or purchases of large combat ships, so the possible acquisition of a French Mistral class ship is most likely to happen under the new program for the years up to 2020, which is still in the development.

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2009/08/mil-090804-rianovosti10.htm

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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  Stealthflanker on Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:02 pm

    WTF ?!

    hehe sounds unbelievable...

    i agree with the Russian experts there, there is simply not enough funds to buy one

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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  Vladimir79 on Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:57 pm

    Russia is negotiating the purchase of a French ship for the Navy
    05.08.2009

    Russia is negotiating with France to purchase a universal landing vertoletonostsa type Mistral for the Navy. This is July 4, writes Kommersant, earlier reported the French business newspaper La Tribune. Moscow officially comment on this information to the Russian edition refused, however, according to multiple sources of Kommersant, the probability of such negotiations is extremely high. According to the French journalists, the outcome of negotiations will be concluded in September 2009, and in October French President Nicolas Sarkozy may visit Russia. However, as noted by La Tribune, while differences remain between the parties. Moscow insists on buying a ship and the construction of three more at the Russian shipyards, but, according to the source of the French edition, "the transfer of such technologies may be relatively limited."




    Kommersant said that the first time the possibility of acquiring foreign technology announced in October 2008, Navy Chief Admiral Vladimir Vysotsky during a visit to a naval Euronaval salon in France. According to Admiral, the Russian fleet "as a common interest development, as well as direct purchases of certain types of French equipment. Press also noted the interest of Chief landing ship Mistral type of DCNS.

    However, in the main headquarters of the Navy of Russia and other interested agencies and companies in the Russian "Kommersant" refused to comment on the purchase of a French ship. The publication stresses that the situation evolved, and unmanned aerial vehicles Israeli production, which initially also buy officially denied.

    Note that in the present composition of the French fleet was composed of two types vertoletonostsa Mistral, and the construction of another is not yet completed. Ships of this project are designed to transport troops and cargo, landing, and can also be used as a headquarters. Their total tonnage of 21,300 tons, length 199 meters, width - 32 m, speed - 18.8 knots, and range up to 19800 miles.

    Photos from the site www.military-today.com landing vertoletonosets type Mistral.

    http://www.lenta.ru/

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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Aug 06, 2009 1:40 am

    Stealthflanker wrote:WTF ?!

    hehe sounds unbelievable...

    i agree with the Russian experts there, there is simply not enough funds to buy one

    What? at the price range of 700-800M with tech transfer as well, that is barely anything to the Russian budget. Don't forget, the budget may say 40B for the Russian army, but it is most likely higher as different districts of the army get different amount of funds and are provided through other defense contracts as well. So 40B could be just the basic figure head of what the real price may be.

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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  Vladimir79 on Thu Aug 06, 2009 7:46 am

    sepheronx wrote:[

    What? at the price range of 700-800M with tech transfer as well, that is barely anything to the Russian budget. Don't forget, the budget may say 40B for the Russian army, but it is most likely higher as different districts of the army get different amount of funds and are provided through other defense contracts as well. So 40B could be just the basic figure head of what the real price may be.

    40B is the procurement budget with 40% of it going to the Navy to mostly build submarines.700-800M is a huge portion of non-strategic procurement. While the Mistral would be a great addition to the fleet, who really needs it when we have so many other things taking priority? To support this ship we would need to install TOR and Kashtan CIWS as we don't want to rely on the iffy French systems, then we would need air defence destroyers of which we have none. While buying a French ship would probably be less problamtic with the corruption of the naval industry here, this is way down the road for procurement priorities.

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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Aug 06, 2009 3:51 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:[

    What? at the price range of 700-800M with tech transfer as well, that is barely anything to the Russian budget. Don't forget, the budget may say 40B for the Russian army, but it is most likely higher as different districts of the army get different amount of funds and are provided through other defense contracts as well. So 40B could be just the basic figure head of what the real price may be.

    40B is the procurement budget with 40% of it going to the Navy to mostly build submarines.700-800M is a huge portion of non-strategic procurement. While the Mistral would be a great addition to the fleet, who really needs it when we have so many other things taking priority? To support this ship we would need to install TOR and Kashtan CIWS as we don't want to rely on the iffy French systems, then we would need air defence destroyers of which we have none. While buying a French ship would probably be less problamtic with the corruption of the naval industry here, this is way down the road for procurement priorities.

    But the in question many have is that the defense budget isn't really 40B but a lot higher.

    In modern era electronics, interchangeable parts is much easier and changing the systems to Russian would be much easier then thought. As well, 700M is still not a whole lot, especially on tech transfer. That is a complete design including some super computer systems for a small cost, rather then developing a new system. 40% of 40B (even though everyone knows the budget is higher)is 16B. Most submarines and basic blue water ships like large frigates does not cost that high. The R&D is already done (new frigates and submarines), and the Mistral already completes an R&D for you guy's, thus that is billions already saved. At that, now Russia just needs to develop a new Cruiser design and aircraft carrier design (something similar to the brits) and there you go, an effective navy at a not bad price either.

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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  Vladimir79 on Thu Aug 06, 2009 6:49 pm

    700M is ALOT for us. You can buy an entire regiment of Su-35BMs, or two T-90S tank brigades. What do we need more, a landing ship, or more advanced fighters and tanks?

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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  Russian Patriot on Thu Aug 06, 2009 7:20 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:700M is ALOT for us. You can buy an entire regiment of Su-35BMs, or two T-90S tank brigades. What do we need more, a landing ship, or more advanced fighters and tanks?

    What happened to our own Ivan Rogov Class?

    We have the ablity to build landing ships ourselves.

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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  Vladislav on Thu Aug 06, 2009 7:30 pm

    Russian Patriot wrote:

    What happened to our own Ivan Rogov Class?

    We have the ablity to build landing ships ourselves.

    Those ships are rusting out. I think rebuilding the class with some tech improvements would be more than adequate for our amphibous needs. Mistral is like trying to operate an aircraft carrier.

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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  Russian Patriot on Thu Aug 06, 2009 8:06 pm

    Vladislav wrote:
    Russian Patriot wrote:

    What happened to our own Ivan Rogov Class?

    We have the ablity to build landing ships ourselves.

    Those ships are rusting out. I think rebuilding the class with some tech improvements would be more than adequate for our amphibous needs. Mistral is like trying to operate an aircraft carrier.

    And more economical.

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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  Vladimir79 on Fri Aug 07, 2009 5:19 am

    I agree, Ivan R. class can carry an entire battallion anywhere we need it. The only conflict zones of real potential would be Georgia and maybe a dispute with Japan over Pacific islands. I would build more hovercrafts on the Caspian in case somebody acts up there. We don't really need brigade sized landing docks when we don't even have any real capable support helos to go on it. None of our attack helos are navalised so it doesn't make much sense unless we are going to buy Eurocopter, oh how I cherish that thought. Rolling Eyes

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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  Turk1 on Sat Aug 08, 2009 11:43 am

    Razz Russia has to buy French ships! Razz Razz

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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  sepheronx on Sat Aug 08, 2009 7:55 pm

    Turk1 wrote:Razz Russia has to buy French ships! Razz Razz

    And Turkey can't produce anything themselves!

    At least Russia can build their own equipment.

    Oh, and modernizing Ivan would cost a lot, maybe close to that of the Mistral as it is. Why not get newer designs and tech transfer for around the same cost? And after buying the first one, then Russia can build the others in her own ship yards. After the 3 are finished, they can move onto developing more but of a different prospect so it will go in a different direction and not face copyright issues.

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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sat Aug 08, 2009 9:08 pm

    Better yet, why don't we get in on the French PA2 projekt. It would save us tonnes of R&D, plus we could co-develop parts for both of our ships. Our designers are scratching their heads about how to go about designing a new carrier, two heads are better than one. We could then build any large ships we want in the upgraded docks. Buying a totally foreign made vessle is out of the question since it doesn't put Russian shipbuilding to work which it desperately needs.

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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  sepheronx on Sat Aug 08, 2009 9:51 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:Better yet, why don't we get in on the French PA2 projekt. It would save us tonnes of R&D, plus we could co-develop parts for both of our ships. Our designers are scratching their heads about how to go about designing a new carrier, two heads are better than one. We could then build any large ships we want in the upgraded docks. Buying a totally foreign made vessle is out of the question since it doesn't put Russian shipbuilding to work which it desperately needs.

    You are right. But to keep people working, is to keep production facilities floating, and most countries when selling equipment to anyone else, requires the buying party to purchase 1 fully working unit, before tech transfer can be made and the facilities can build them (run on sentences HELL YEAH!).

    As for Carriers, if we do build them with France, then that would be sweet as well. Not so big but not so small. Cheaper too!

    Currently, the Frigates Russia is building is keeping most people in the blue water navy facilities working (as well as Submarines). But eventually Russia will need bigger ships and other ships to fill other rolls (Cruisers, Carriers, Surveillance boats, etc). So they need to get working on those as well. Designing ships cost a lot of money (R&D funds), but if buying from abroad, Russia can then learn more in developing the newer stuff as well as thinking on ways on improving the purchased designs.

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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  Vladimir79 on Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:17 pm

    "Gorshkov" sell, "Mistral" buy
    14.08.2009

    The Russian Navy is waiting for a major replenishment. In September, could be a final decision on the purchase of the French universal vertoletonostsa type "Mistral" and the transfer of licenses for the construction of three more such vessels at Russian shipyards. For all that Moscow was prepared to pay more than 1 billion euro, which may be the largest contract in the history of relations between Russia and NATO countries. According to the plans of command ships of this type would have to create the backbone of the rapid reaction of Russian fleet.

    - Buy a complex naval technology in the country - a member of NATO should be preceded by a very serious peer review, - said a member of Council of the Ministry of Defense Igor Korotchenko. - There should be tender. For example, a system we can build Spain, and probably much cheaper than France.

    Curiously, the upcoming purchase of sales taking place against the backdrop of Russia aircraft cruiser "Admiral Gorshkov" in India. How is it worse than the French "Mistral"?

    Universal vertoletonosets type "Mistral" - the largest modern ships of landing forces, combining the functions vertoletonostsa and-ship dock. In Russia the Navy in size "Mistral" is second only to aircraft cruiser "Admiral Kuznetsov". Instead, they are able to provide a forum to any other ship.

    For example, he can deliver anywhere in the world of 450 marines and 60 pieces of equipment. In doing so, his main tactical advantage will be an opportunity to plant them at any unequipped shores, no approach to it. To do this on board can be placed 20 transport or attack helicopters, and the hold-ship dock hidden four hovercraft.

    The second "Mistral" - the high automation of management. Ship displacement of 21 tons is controlled by just 160 sailors, that such Makhin indeed a revolution. The "Admiral Kuznetsov", by the way, the crew of 1300 people. In France, the Navy now has two similar ships - the head "Mistral" and "Tonner. A third body, just as his French and ready to sell us.

    - At the level of rumors concluding such contracts is discussed for almost a year - told "Izvestiya" the chief editor of Moscow Defense Brief Mikhail Barabanov. - At a recent Naval Show in St. Petersburg head the Navy Vladimir Vysotsky conducted intense negotiations with the French, and very clearly said that Russia was ready to buy imported equipment. Bad is that our public know about these decisions only now and then from French newspapers.

    Officially, the Defense Ministry had no comment on the possibility of such a transaction. Silent, and the Navy. One of the reasons - the extreme unpopularity of such a decision. Indeed, construction of new ships has already been laid for the domestic fleet due to lack of money is extremely slow. For example, the Navy's largest acquisition since 2000, Russia became built over 20 years and put into operation this year, and has frankly antiquated sloop "Yaroslav the Wise." A small sloop "Daghestan" to build the Caspian Sea for 17 years. Head corvette new project 20380 "Stereguschy" (a small boat in 2000 tons with a weak weapon) is seven years. The second series of four corvettes come into operation not earlier than 2011. The three laid down for the Caspian flotilla of small artillery ships such as "Astrakhan" surrendered just one, but two others are on the stocks. The number of these same novostroyaschihsya ship itself is sad - so many warships of similar classes of orders now for their fleets only Morocco and Indonesia.

    A larger surface units do not have to say. In 2004, the factory "Yantar" was laid a large landing ship "Ivan Gren" new displacement of 11711 tons 5500 - until now it only exists in the form of separate sections. Founded in 2006, the new frigate "Admiral Gorshkov" of 4500 tons will be launched into the test, at best, no earlier than 2012, but the full construction of mass-produced vehicles of both types in the coming years can hardly read it.

    According to Barabanova, the price of the issue to the end of construction could increase in times. Now Moscow has insisted that vertoletonosets was designed for operation in arctic latitudes, and all military systems, communications, weapons, aircraft must be Russian. 20 transport helicopters type Ka-29 will cost, according to rough estimates, the additional 200 million euros. However, with a modern vision of the procurement of arms and military equipment may be purchased and French cars. For example, the NH90 helicopters for 30 million euros apiece.

    Do experts raises more questions than the sum of the transaction itself, as meaning the purchase of such equipment. Ferries type "Mistral" are intended to carry out expeditionary tasks. Unlike France, which has overseas colonies, the question arises as to where Russia plans to throw actual landing. In Somalia? In Georgia? And maybe, in the Crimea? No understanding of what forces and means to ensure the safety of navigation of such whopper. They simply do not have appropriate combat support.

    Dmitry Litovkin

    Права на данный материал принадлежат Известия.ru.

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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  soldieroffortune on Sat Aug 15, 2009 4:14 am

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:[

    What? at the price range of 700-800M with tech transfer as well, that is barely anything to the Russian budget. Don't forget, the budget may say 40B for the Russian army, but it is most likely higher as different districts of the army get different amount of funds and are provided through other defense contracts as well. So 40B could be just the basic figure head of what the real price may be.

    40B is the procurement budget with 40% of it going to the Navy to mostly build submarines.700-800M is a huge portion of non-strategic procurement. While the Mistral would be a great addition to the fleet, who really needs it when we have so many other things taking priority? To support this ship we would need to install TOR and Kashtan CIWS as we don't want to rely on the iffy French systems, then we would need air defence destroyers of which we have none. While buying a French ship would probably be less problamtic with the corruption of the naval industry here, this is way down the road for procurement priorities.

    Sir Grand Marshal,

    The problem is (and it is a serious one): can the Russian industry build right now a comparable vessel for its Navy? There are many indication that unfortunately it is not so. What do you think?

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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  soldieroffortune on Sat Aug 15, 2009 4:16 am

    Vladimir79 wrote:"Gorshkov" sell, "Mistral" buy
    14.08.2009

    The Russian Navy is waiting for a major replenishment. In September, could be a final decision on the purchase of the French universal vertoletonostsa type "Mistral" and the transfer of licenses for the construction of three more such vessels at Russian shipyards. For all that Moscow was prepared to pay more than 1 billion euro, which may be the largest contract in the history of relations between Russia and NATO countries. According to the plans of command ships of this type would have to create the backbone of the rapid reaction of Russian fleet.

    - Buy a complex naval technology in the country - a member of NATO should be preceded by a very serious peer review, - said a member of Council of the Ministry of Defense Igor Korotchenko. - There should be tender. For example, a system we can build Spain, and probably much cheaper than France.

    Curiously, the upcoming purchase of sales taking place against the backdrop of Russia aircraft cruiser "Admiral Gorshkov" in India. How is it worse than the French "Mistral"?

    Universal vertoletonosets type "Mistral" - the largest modern ships of landing forces, combining the functions vertoletonostsa and-ship dock. In Russia the Navy in size "Mistral" is second only to aircraft cruiser "Admiral Kuznetsov". Instead, they are able to provide a forum to any other ship.

    For example, he can deliver anywhere in the world of 450 marines and 60 pieces of equipment. In doing so, his main tactical advantage will be an opportunity to plant them at any unequipped shores, no approach to it. To do this on board can be placed 20 transport or attack helicopters, and the hold-ship dock hidden four hovercraft.

    The second "Mistral" - the high automation of management. Ship displacement of 21 tons is controlled by just 160 sailors, that such Makhin indeed a revolution. The "Admiral Kuznetsov", by the way, the crew of 1300 people. In France, the Navy now has two similar ships - the head "Mistral" and "Tonner. A third body, just as his French and ready to sell us.

    - At the level of rumors concluding such contracts is discussed for almost a year - told "Izvestiya" the chief editor of Moscow Defense Brief Mikhail Barabanov. - At a recent Naval Show in St. Petersburg head the Navy Vladimir Vysotsky conducted intense negotiations with the French, and very clearly said that Russia was ready to buy imported equipment. Bad is that our public know about these decisions only now and then from French newspapers.

    Officially, the Defense Ministry had no comment on the possibility of such a transaction. Silent, and the Navy. One of the reasons - the extreme unpopularity of such a decision. Indeed, construction of new ships has already been laid for the domestic fleet due to lack of money is extremely slow. For example, the Navy's largest acquisition since 2000, Russia became built over 20 years and put into operation this year, and has frankly antiquated sloop "Yaroslav the Wise." A small sloop "Daghestan" to build the Caspian Sea for 17 years. Head corvette new project 20380 "Stereguschy" (a small boat in 2000 tons with a weak weapon) is seven years. The second series of four corvettes come into operation not earlier than 2011. The three laid down for the Caspian flotilla of small artillery ships such as "Astrakhan" surrendered just one, but two others are on the stocks. The number of these same novostroyaschihsya ship itself is sad - so many warships of similar classes of orders now for their fleets only Morocco and Indonesia.

    A larger surface units do not have to say. In 2004, the factory "Yantar" was laid a large landing ship "Ivan Gren" new displacement of 11711 tons 5500 - until now it only exists in the form of separate sections. Founded in 2006, the new frigate "Admiral Gorshkov" of 4500 tons will be launched into the test, at best, no earlier than 2012, but the full construction of mass-produced vehicles of both types in the coming years can hardly read it.

    According to Barabanova, the price of the issue to the end of construction could increase in times. Now Moscow has insisted that vertoletonosets was designed for operation in arctic latitudes, and all military systems, communications, weapons, aircraft must be Russian. 20 transport helicopters type Ka-29 will cost, according to rough estimates, the additional 200 million euros. However, with a modern vision of the procurement of arms and military equipment may be purchased and French cars. For example, the NH90 helicopters for 30 million euros apiece.

    Do experts raises more questions than the sum of the transaction itself, as meaning the purchase of such equipment. Ferries type "Mistral" are intended to carry out expeditionary tasks. Unlike France, which has overseas colonies, the question arises as to where Russia plans to throw actual landing. In Somalia? In Georgia? And maybe, in the Crimea? No understanding of what forces and means to ensure the safety of navigation of such whopper. They simply do not have appropriate combat support.

    Dmitry Litovkin

    Права на данный материал принадлежат Известия.ru.

    Perhaps it would be easier to keep "Gorshkov" and not to buy "Mistral".

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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sat Aug 15, 2009 12:30 pm

    soldieroffortune wrote:

    Sir Grand Marshal,

    The problem is (and it is a serious one): can the Russian industry build right now a comparable vessel for its Navy? There are many indication that unfortunately it is not so. What do you think?

    Comperable... definetly not unless you have 20 years to wait. Problem with the naval industry and large ships is corruption = Sevmash. As we have seen from the Gorshkov deal, it is broken from the top down. They can't even maintain the boilers on Admiral K. Maybe there is hope in the Far East yards, but then it is the Far East, king of abuse and corruption. The most corrupt part of our forces is Navy, so quite frankly I don't trust them to do much of anything.

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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sat Aug 15, 2009 12:40 pm

    soldieroffortune wrote:

    Perhaps it would be easier to keep "Gorshkov" and not to buy "Mistral".

    Please don't leave us with Gorshkov. If India hadn't bought it, that is what would have happened. Gorshkov is an aviation cruiser while Mistral is an LPD. They serve two different functions. Keeping Gorshkov would require us to refund India $700 million, plus spending $1.5 billion on refit. It would be cheaper to buy a Mistral.

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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  Russian Patriot on Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:55 am

    soldieroffortune wrote:
    Vladimir79 wrote:"Gorshkov" sell, "Mistral" buy
    14.08.2009

    The Russian Navy is waiting for a major replenishment. In September, could be a final decision on the purchase of the French universal vertoletonostsa type "Mistral" and the transfer of licenses for the construction of three more such vessels at Russian shipyards. For all that Moscow was prepared to pay more than 1 billion euro, which may be the largest contract in the history of relations between Russia and NATO countries. According to the plans of command ships of this type would have to create the backbone of the rapid reaction of Russian fleet.

    - Buy a complex naval technology in the country - a member of NATO should be preceded by a very serious peer review, - said a member of Council of the Ministry of Defense Igor Korotchenko. - There should be tender. For example, a system we can build Spain, and probably much cheaper than France.

    Curiously, the upcoming purchase of sales taking place against the backdrop of Russia aircraft cruiser "Admiral Gorshkov" in India. How is it worse than the French "Mistral"?

    Universal vertoletonosets type "Mistral" - the largest modern ships of landing forces, combining the functions vertoletonostsa and-ship dock. In Russia the Navy in size "Mistral" is second only to aircraft cruiser "Admiral Kuznetsov". Instead, they are able to provide a forum to any other ship.

    For example, he can deliver anywhere in the world of 450 marines and 60 pieces of equipment. In doing so, his main tactical advantage will be an opportunity to plant them at any unequipped shores, no approach to it. To do this on board can be placed 20 transport or attack helicopters, and the hold-ship dock hidden four hovercraft.

    The second "Mistral" - the high automation of management. Ship displacement of 21 tons is controlled by just 160 sailors, that such Makhin indeed a revolution. The "Admiral Kuznetsov", by the way, the crew of 1300 people. In France, the Navy now has two similar ships - the head "Mistral" and "Tonner. A third body, just as his French and ready to sell us.

    - At the level of rumors concluding such contracts is discussed for almost a year - told "Izvestiya" the chief editor of Moscow Defense Brief Mikhail Barabanov. - At a recent Naval Show in St. Petersburg head the Navy Vladimir Vysotsky conducted intense negotiations with the French, and very clearly said that Russia was ready to buy imported equipment. Bad is that our public know about these decisions only now and then from French newspapers.

    Officially, the Defense Ministry had no comment on the possibility of such a transaction. Silent, and the Navy. One of the reasons - the extreme unpopularity of such a decision. Indeed, construction of new ships has already been laid for the domestic fleet due to lack of money is extremely slow. For example, the Navy's largest acquisition since 2000, Russia became built over 20 years and put into operation this year, and has frankly antiquated sloop "Yaroslav the Wise." A small sloop "Daghestan" to build the Caspian Sea for 17 years. Head corvette new project 20380 "Stereguschy" (a small boat in 2000 tons with a weak weapon) is seven years. The second series of four corvettes come into operation not earlier than 2011. The three laid down for the Caspian flotilla of small artillery ships such as "Astrakhan" surrendered just one, but two others are on the stocks. The number of these same novostroyaschihsya ship itself is sad - so many warships of similar classes of orders now for their fleets only Morocco and Indonesia.

    A larger surface units do not have to say. In 2004, the factory "Yantar" was laid a large landing ship "Ivan Gren" new displacement of 11711 tons 5500 - until now it only exists in the form of separate sections. Founded in 2006, the new frigate "Admiral Gorshkov" of 4500 tons will be launched into the test, at best, no earlier than 2012, but the full construction of mass-produced vehicles of both types in the coming years can hardly read it.

    According to Barabanova, the price of the issue to the end of construction could increase in times. Now Moscow has insisted that vertoletonosets was designed for operation in arctic latitudes, and all military systems, communications, weapons, aircraft must be Russian. 20 transport helicopters type Ka-29 will cost, according to rough estimates, the additional 200 million euros. However, with a modern vision of the procurement of arms and military equipment may be purchased and French cars. For example, the NH90 helicopters for 30 million euros apiece.

    Do experts raises more questions than the sum of the transaction itself, as meaning the purchase of such equipment. Ferries type "Mistral" are intended to carry out expeditionary tasks. Unlike France, which has overseas colonies, the question arises as to where Russia plans to throw actual landing. In Somalia? In Georgia? And maybe, in the Crimea? No understanding of what forces and means to ensure the safety of navigation of such whopper. They simply do not have appropriate combat support.

    Dmitry Litovkin

    Права на данный материал принадлежат Известия.ru.

    Perhaps it would be easier to keep "Gorshkov" and not to buy "Mistral".

    finishing the highlighted ship would make more sense.

    soldieroffortune
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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  soldieroffortune on Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:34 am

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    soldieroffortune wrote:

    Sir Grand Marshal,

    The problem is (and it is a serious one): can the Russian industry build right now a comparable vessel for its Navy? There are many indication that unfortunately it is not so. What do you think?

    Comperable... definetly not unless you have 20 years to wait. Problem with the naval industry and large ships is corruption = Sevmash. As we have seen from the Gorshkov deal, it is broken from the top down. They can't even maintain the boilers on Admiral K. Maybe there is hope in the Far East yards, but then it is the Far East, king of abuse and corruption. The most corrupt part of our forces is Navy, so quite frankly I don't trust them to do much of anything.

    That's sad; corruption is still the key problem, maybe even more than before. On the other hand, Russia cannot rely solely on other countries when it comes to the arms for her Armed Forces. Since the "furniture salesman" took over the Defense Ministry I see the tendency of favoring buying arms and supplies instead of producing them.

    sepheronx
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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  sepheronx on Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:29 am

    soldieroffortune wrote:
    Vladimir79 wrote:
    soldieroffortune wrote:

    Sir Grand Marshal,

    The problem is (and it is a serious one): can the Russian industry build right now a comparable vessel for its Navy? There are many indication that unfortunately it is not so. What do you think?

    Comperable... definetly not unless you have 20 years to wait. Problem with the naval industry and large ships is corruption = Sevmash. As we have seen from the Gorshkov deal, it is broken from the top down. They can't even maintain the boilers on Admiral K. Maybe there is hope in the Far East yards, but then it is the Far East, king of abuse and corruption. The most corrupt part of our forces is Navy, so quite frankly I don't trust them to do much of anything.

    That's sad; corruption is still the key problem, maybe even more than before. On the other hand, Russia cannot rely solely on other countries when it comes to the arms for her Armed Forces. Since the "furniture salesman" took over the Defense Ministry I see the tendency of favoring buying arms and supplies instead of producing them.

    Corruption is a sad part of most industries in the world. Problem with Russia's was after the fall of the USSR, there was an over supply of defense industries and no one knew where what was going, and many closed down or went bankrupt (cause Russia tried to keep them all running). Once one was left, then problems arise. If Russia decided (since a lot of these companies are still state run) to move them to private (completely), then a companies main goal is "moola" and in order to get that, is constant R&D and sales. Once the other facility is done, production can increase, thus the sales could become more frequent.

    Vladislav
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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  Vladislav on Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:18 pm

    soldieroffortune wrote:

    That's sad; corruption is still the key problem, maybe even more than before. On the other hand, Russia cannot rely solely on other countries when it comes to the arms for her Armed Forces. Since the "furniture salesman" took over the Defense Ministry I see the tendency of favoring buying arms and supplies instead of producing them.

    That furniture salesmen realizes the methods of production and economics. He knows how to get the "bang for the buck" so to speak. That is more important than producing obsolete items.

    soldieroffortune
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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  soldieroffortune on Sun Aug 16, 2009 8:01 pm

    sepheronx wrote:
    soldieroffortune wrote:
    Vladimir79 wrote:
    soldieroffortune wrote:

    Sir Grand Marshal,

    The problem is (and it is a serious one): can the Russian industry build right now a comparable vessel for its Navy? There are many indication that unfortunately it is not so. What do you think?

    Comperable... definetly not unless you have 20 years to wait. Problem with the naval industry and large ships is corruption = Sevmash. As we have seen from the Gorshkov deal, it is broken from the top down. They can't even maintain the boilers on Admiral K. Maybe there is hope in the Far East yards, but then it is the Far East, king of abuse and corruption. The most corrupt part of our forces is Navy, so quite frankly I don't trust them to do much of anything.

    That's sad; corruption is still the key problem, maybe even more than before. On the other hand, Russia cannot rely solely on other countries when it comes to the arms for her Armed Forces. Since the "furniture salesman" took over the Defense Ministry I see the tendency of favoring buying arms and supplies instead of producing them.


    Corruption is a sad part of most industries in the world. Problem with Russia's was after the fall of the USSR, there was an over supply of defense industries and no one knew where what was going, and many closed down or went bankrupt (cause Russia tried to keep them all running). Once one was left, then problems arise. If Russia decided (since a lot of these companies are still state run) to move them to private (completely), then a companies main goal is "moola" and in order to get that, is constant R&D and sales. Once the other facility is done, production can increase, thus the sales could become more frequent.

    Somehow I doubt that during WW2 there was corruption in this area ...

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