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    Russian Ground Forces: News #1

    TheArmenian
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    Post  TheArmenian on Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:21 am

    Did you open the link in my above post?
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:03 am

    Interesting range of proposals, would be good to see Kamaz get the light brigade contracts and independent brigade UAV/cruise missile/Iskander/Smerch/Uragan/Grad.

    I suspect that a variant of the modular multiple rocket launcher vehicles might also be used for the Hermes system too... there is plenty of potential with the commonality between these missiles and the SA-22 Pantsir-S1 missile.

    Ironic that I am deriding the ADATS as not being a good idea, yet the next generation short to medium range SAM (20km range SA-22) might be a unified system with the Hermes multirole ground to ground missile in 40km range and 100km range models.

    Indeed the usefulness of the SAM with its command guided terminal phase for attacking air targets could be used against line of sight ground targets too, but it is the MMW radar, IIR, and SALH models of the ground to ground HERMES that offer enormous potential in the ground to air role. Imagine a volley of 40 Hermes missiles from a single truck mount directed at a range of incoming air threats using IIR seekers in a lock on after launch fire mode? With 30kgs warhead even hard targets can be engaged.
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    Post  medo on Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:19 pm

    Ironic that I am deriding the ADATS as not being a good idea, yet the next generation short to medium range SAM (20km range SA-22) might be a unified system with the Hermes multirole ground to ground missile in 40km range and 100km range models.

    Indeed the usefulness of the SAM with its command guided terminal phase for attacking air targets could be used against line of sight ground targets too, but it is the MMW radar, IIR, and SALH models of the ground to ground HERMES that offer enormous potential in the ground to air role. Imagine a volley of 40 Hermes missiles from a single truck mount directed at a range of incoming air threats using IIR seekers in a lock on after launch fire mode? With 30kgs warhead even hard targets can be engaged.

    In my opinion Hermes developed from Pantsir missile could be for range around 15 km (ground use) to 20 km (Ka-52 use), because missile is fast and you have to guide it to the target (FCS have to see target, not missile). For Ka-52 this is not a problem, because it fly, while ground based need a vehicle like Credo-1S, which could lift Credo radar end EO ball around 15 to 20 m over ground, to see ground targets on such distance. From ground level you will not see tank 20 km away.

    Other question is missile with 40 or 100 km range. In that case it need IIR or MMW homing head inside missile and data link (radio or wire) to launcher, who lock the missile on target, when it is seen. In that case missile have to fly high and slow (like Polyphem?), that you could see a target, because with 1000 m/s you could not see it and is easy target for protecting air defense. It is better to have Smerch with smart submunition, than such expensive Hermes targets. It could be usable for helicopters or planes, because they could operate faster long range missiles and Hermes is lighter than Kh-59.
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Mar 29, 2013 1:34 am

    AFAIK for the 40km and 100km range models the flight path is ballistic, so they will travel a long way but also climb up relatively high and will be used against point targets like buildings, bridges, vehicles, bunkers, etc.

    They are intended as support weapons and anti armour weapons, so an enemy armoured unit forming up behind the front line might get a barrage of HERMES missiles launched at them... a combined MMW radar and IIR seeker could be used to detect large lumps of metal and discern a tank with its engine on or off, from a burning tank and hit live tanks only... the ballistic path means a diving top attack flight profile with a 30kg warhead...
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    Post  TR1 on Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:23 am

    Coalition SV-KSh
    Work is currently going on a wheeled artillery chassis. The KAMAZ 6560 has been chosen as the chassis, and after work is done on it, it will be sent to recieve the experimental new 152mm artillery system.

    http://twower.livejournal.com/1019895.html

    Render of the Wheeled Coalition vehicle. The Experimental vehicle will be somewhat different. No "final" version is identified yet. More info might be available by end of the year.


    --------------------------

    I think the whole idea is a waste of time and resources, but I guess we will see how army testing goes.
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:39 am

    Interesting... that will likely be the model for the independent artillery units.

    For an Armata brigade they will of course use an Armata chassis, while the Kurganets-25 and Boomerang-25 could possibly have Coalition models... with stabilisers like this truck model.

    I very much doubt there will be a Boomerang-10 version of Coalition... more likely a version of Boomerang-10 with a long barrelled 120mm rifled gun/mortar, which should offer excellent firepower for light mobile forces.

    Russian Ground Forces: News #1 - Page 21 0_9a3a10

    With new powerful, accurate, long range shells this vehicle should be awesome.
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    Post  flamming_python on Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:41 pm

    Remember, now they seem to be converting back to a division structure from the brigade one. The few brigades that have been set up already are being reverted.

    What does this bode for the Armata/Kurganets/Bumerang plans?
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    Post  TR1 on Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:06 pm

    Nothing for those vehicles I suspect, they are all explicitly needed for replacement of legacy hardware. T-72s, BMPs and BTRs still operate in massive numbers.

    However I suspect we will see a re-evaluation of all these "light" and wheeled units that were planned under the reforms.
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Apr 06, 2013 8:27 am

    Doubt it would make any difference at all... they went for the brigade structure for quick reaction forces that are easier to control... they are however their future vehicles so whether it is an Armata heavy Brigade or an Armata heavy Division, either way they get the benefits of commonality and standardisation.

    I rather expect due to purchase and operational and maintainence costs that wheeled vehicle medium and light units will be the vast majority of forces.
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    Post  Zivo on Sun Apr 07, 2013 5:36 am

    MoD to upgrade 3,000 BMP-2 with berezhok.

    http://izvestia.ru/news/547971

    Nice to see the BMP-2 getting some love.
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    Post  TR1 on Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:58 am

    Izvestya making things up again.
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    Post  medo on Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:21 pm

    Any info, how many T-90 was ordered for this year?
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    Post  Viktor on Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:55 am

    Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

    Russia has built the world's largest digital ground



    In Nizhny Novgorod region have created a virtual battlefield for the infantry, paratroopers and missile
    Defense has built the world's largest digital ground. It is located in the Nizhny Novgorod region near the village of Mulino an area of ​​100 hectares. In 2014 it will be able to train at the same time an entire brigade (3.7-4.5 thousand). Oodnovremenno there will be able to conduct military training and units of the Army, Navy, Marines and coast artillery and rocket forces of the Navy.

    As told to "Izvestia" in the Ministry of Defense, March 29, at the site of Tver 'RusBitTeh "that created an electronic stuffing landfill, launched a joint training system that integrates all the elements of a new landfill: Staff Management, simulators, virtual battlefield, electronic learning systems and laser simulators defeats the purpose. The first classes in Mulino should begin in the fall of 2013.

    - On the range are equipped not only to training places for shooting from all kinds of standard weapons and conducting offensive combat, but also trainers automated control system. With the latest computers can simulate combined arms combat in real time. In this case, all the command and control systems work similarly to what is now available in combat units - told "Izvestia".

    The course team at the site takes seven weeks with the team work out the tasks as intended in any area in the present conditions of confrontation. If necessary, the electronic simulators and simulators can be connected and a real military equipment - tanks, armored personnel carriers and even helicopters. As a result, team training can be combined with practical practice actions of individual military units.

    Thanks to the electronic charts and simulations at the site created a virtual battlefield that simulates typical conditions of the terrain around the world. Thus, the Russian soldiers can develop and maintain a fight in the desert, and assault operations in the mountains, and the movement in the woods.

    Highly detailed three-dimensional maps, which uses the virtual headquarters of the brigade, similar to those used in computer games. The database contains hundreds of landfill virtual models of military equipment that simulates how the enemy forces and reinforcements.

    Each sample can ask the real characteristics: speed, range and rate of fire, maneuver technology, so that from a static target, he turns into a real enemy that can detect when the wrong-doing and learning destroy the "tank."

    Crews are trained to physical simulators, fully simulate the fighting compartment tanks, armored personnel carriers, artillery, and even a helicopter cockpit. In addition to virtual learning spaces equipped with a real tactical ground targets, firing ranges, directrices for tanks, boilers for firing artillery.

    In the real world of radio-controlled opponents represent targets that can be remotely sent to the specified square polygon. Thanks to German laser systems simulate hitting accuracy is evaluated in online mode, and the commanders on the map immediately see destroyed "enemy" or not.

    Incidentally, the "enemy" is not toothless: it is a return "fire", and in the case of contact with academic "tank" is destroyed and eliminated from the battlefield.

    Also at the site realized the possibility of bilateral exercises - when fighting with each other leading teams units. For this part of the test site uses laser simulators not only firearms, but also all types of military equipment.

    As planned by the Army Command typical cycle for combined arms brigade will take one and a half months. First, military action will work units, platoons, battalions, mouth-on simulators and electronic classrooms, then hold a virtual teaching, and then begin the practical work on the tank ranges and shooting ranges.

    The process of preparing the brigade has completed a live-fire exercises. At the same time on the range can be engaged in several teams. It is also possible scenario where one team will conduct training battle against the other with laser simulators.

    Interspecific landfill "Gorokhovetsky" is located in the Nizhny Novgorod region near the village of Mulino. It covers an area of ​​about 100 hectares and is valid since 1928. Created on range combat training center is to provide training battalion, and since 2014 - and the Brigade Combat Team. According to the aggregate power it will be the largest in the world.

    The second largest contingent of the student and the first on the area (about 260 ha) landfill located in the United States in the Mojave Desert, California. Despite the size, it is designed for the preparation of 2-3 battalion tactical groups.

    The third largest landfill - German combat training center near the ground forces of Magdeburg. It is located on an area of ​​about 23 hectares and since 2006 is designed to train a battalion tactical groups.


    Alexei Mikhailov
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    TR1
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    Post  TR1 on Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:40 am

    http://img13.imageshost.ru/img/2012/09/29/image_50671b960d1e2.jpg
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Apr 13, 2013 6:42 am

    Russia has built the world's largest digital ground

    That is funny they mention the German and US sites, because this new site was a German system the Russian military have bought.

    Ironic that it will be the largest NATO digital combat system available and it is in Russia. Only the US and Germany have them so far, and soon Russia will have the biggest, made by German companies

    It would be amusing if other NATO countries ask to rent it...

    Of course I think it will be too busy and that they might build a few smaller systems. Of course having just one system means the mobility of the units can be tested... get them to simulate the driving of their vehicles to the area they want to train... say downtown Berlin in a snow storm at night and then fight an enemy Brigade and then on the drive home deal with an ambush... say in Poland. The advantage of digital exercises is that it uses no fuel and no ammo and can be set anywhere, any time, in any weather conditions with any enemy. Upgraded vehicles are a software upgrade away. In fact you could test in simulated combat situations whether a BMPT would be useful or not, or whether longer range missiles like Kornet-EM are worth the cost.

    All very exciting.

    You can test the performance of one sniper, a sniper team, a single tank gunner, a whole tank crew, a battalion of tanks, a whole brigade all having to work together, sharing info etc etc. It can be recorded so those making mistakes can learn from those doing it right.

    The ultimate LAN party!
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    Post  Zivo on Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:17 am

    Now they just need to put it online.

    I'd volunteer to replace the hostile AI any day Very Happy.
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    Post  medo on Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:10 pm

    For sure this new ground will bring a level of trainings to new quality and Russian units will be far better trained than they are now.
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:23 am

    Now they just need to put it online.

    It is not just software... but hardware too... I'll take that Mi-28NM kit thanks...
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    Post  collegeboy16 on Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:41 am

    GarryB wrote:
    Now they just need to put it online.

    It is not just software... but hardware too... I'll take that Mi-28NM kit thanks...
    ...And I'll take an Armata T-99K?(command) MBT and a few other T-99s in my control and steamroll every enemy along the way Twisted Evil.
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    Post  Regular on Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:32 pm

    Interesting news. Very nice to see positive development. Funny thing is that Germany and Russia has closer cooperation than some of EU or NATO countries. Didn't Russia cooperate with Rheinmetall before?
    Last time Russia had close relations with Germans something called WW2 happened. There is no Hitler anymore so Europe is safe Very Happy
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    Post  GarryB on Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:31 am

    Last time Russia had close relations with Germans something called WW2 happened.

    Except that is not totally accurate.

    In the 1920s and early 1930s it is true that there was a closeness between the two countries that suffered the most from the end of WWI. There was a lot of collaboration between the two countries in many fields, but that stopped completely in 1933 when Hitler took power and they stopped all cooperation. Germany was still buying war materials and raw materials even to the day they invaded the Soviet Union, but they certainly were not friends. The non aggression pact proves it. What would two countries that are friends need a non aggression pact for? The whole concept of a non aggression pact to ensure each side does not step on the toes of the other would be pointless if they were really allies and friends.

    The truth is that Germany was no more a friend to the Soviets than the British were or are.

    BTW one of the factories that was fought over in Stalingrad was built by Rheinmetall under licence to make modern gun barrels before 1933.
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    Post  TheArmenian on Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:37 pm

    Photos taken by Said Aminov at the Lima-2013 exhibition.

    Interesting photos of the CLUB-M, UKSK, Amur Submarine, small patrol boats etc.

    Link: http://saidpvo.livejournal.com/167027.html
    Russian Ground Forces: News #1 - Page 21 IMG_9471
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    Post  TheArmenian on Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:42 pm

    Another series of photos from Said Aminov at the Lima-2013 show.
    Mostly Air Defence systems, but also Khrizantema., etc.

    Link: http://saidpvo.livejournal.com/166782.html

    Russian Ground Forces: News #1 - Page 21 IMG_2845
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    Post  Pugnax on Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:38 pm

    Wow what a stroke of luck it seems a tantamount admission that British ,French or German technologies were the prime movers.Models are nice ,want to buy a very nice death star?
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    Post  TR1 on Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:00 pm

    Pugnax wrote:Wow what a stroke of luck it seems a tantamount admission that British ,French or German technologies were the prime movers.Models are nice ,want to buy a very nice death star?

    What are you talking about?

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