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    Russian Ground Forces: News #1

    TR1
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    Post  TR1 on Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 am

    Typo.

    The actual article says 770.
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:32 am

    MOSCOW, February 22 (RIA Novosti) - A series of random checks in the Russian Armed Forces this week revealed a number of systemic shortcomings, General Staff chief Valery Gerasimov said on Friday.

    This is excellent.

    They were never going to get it perfect first time or straight away, but having real tests and looking at the actual results means they do want to get this right... in some armies such tests have long warning periods so cheating can be prepared in advance so all the units get excellent scores and nothing really changes.

    BTW all I read was AMZ is making vehicles... sounds good to me. Razz
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    Post  medo on Sat Feb 23, 2013 11:07 am

    TR1 wrote:http://www.arms-expo.ru/049057054050124051048055052050.html

    AMZ is making 146 armored Tigrs in 2013 and 770 BTRs.

    Good news. Even if half of them go to Russian army, this will not be that bad, like 380 BTRs and 70 Tigrs, what is more than 400 armored vehicles.
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    Post  flamming_python on Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:21 pm

    Austin wrote:Surprise Check Reveals ‘Systemic Problems’ in Russian Military

    MOSCOW, February 22 (RIA Novosti) - A series of random checks in the Russian Armed Forces this week revealed a number of systemic shortcomings, General Staff chief Valery Gerasimov said on Friday.

    Combat alert checks were carried out in the Central and South Military Districts, the Airborne Assault Forces (VDV) and military transport aviation units.

    Alert duty officers in some military units demonstrated an insufficiently prompt and ineffective response in processing orders via automated combat command and control systems, especially in VDV troops and at the 201st Military Base in Tajikistan, Gerasimov said during a teleconference.

    He also criticized the level of cooperation between the 201st Military Base command and the local Tajik authorities.

    Military vehicle drivers, mechanics and operators showed insufficient handling skills, leading to delays and disruptions on the march and during the fulfillment of combat training missions, particularly in the 28th Motorized Rifle Brigade of the Central Military District, he said.

    Other problems included low-accuracy shooting and shelling results, especially by tanks and infantry fighting vehicles.

    “The majority of subunits only received 'C' grades,” the General Staff chief said, adding that many officers commissioned last year failed to demonstrate good overall results.

    Gerasimov ordered military commanders at all levels to analyze the causes of their problems, draw up remedial plans and follow them meticulously.

    The Defense Ministry said on Tuesday the checks were carried out for the first time in the past 20 years and will now be conducted on a regular basis.

    This should come as no surprise to anyone at all.
    A major round of butt-thrashing is in order.
    But the problem is systematic - you have to shape-up and shake-up not just these units but everyone, and make sure that the appropriate training is performed at the level and frequency which it deserves.
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    Post  TR1 on Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:28 pm

    http://vitalykuzmin.net/?q=node/491

    Some awesome photos from AMZ by Vitaly - eagerly waiting for more!
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    Post  TR1 on Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:45 am

    http://www.arms-expo.ru/im.xp/052054052054050049048.jpg

    Of the 146 Tigrs, only 65 are for domestic purposes. Rather low to be frank, though the export number is nice.



    Last edited by TR1 on Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  TR1 on Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:17 pm

    I don't have any links on hand, but I believe there are some good posts on Sosna earlier in this thread.
    I know the forum search engine sucks, if I have time later I will try to get some good links.

    http://twower.livejournal.com/987283.html

    From AMZ:
    In 2012, 549 BTRs were produced.
    In 2013, they are planning for 770: 290 for MOD, 400 for Rosoboronexport, and 80 for repairs.
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    Post  AlfaT8 on Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:44 pm

    TR1 wrote:I don't have any links on hand, but I believe there are some good posts on Sosna earlier in this thread.
    I know the forum search engine sucks, if I have time later I will try to get some good links.


    Which section of the forum or perhaps this very thread???


    "In 2012, 549 BTRs were produced" Impressive, are we talking newly built or recently modernized??
    "In 2013, they are planning for 770: 290 for MOD, 400 for Rosoboronexport, and 80 for repairs" Damn, now thats what i call mass production. Shocked

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    Post  TR1 on Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:06 pm

    Some more AMZ info:

    From Vitaly himself, regarding vehicle warranties and reclamations:

    "This is number of BTRs under warranty of AMZ. Produced by AMZ. Not sure both domestic and foreign, but probably.

    In 2012 they had 3180 BTRs under warranty and received 567 reclamations. That doens't mean all 567 BTRs were sent back. there could be several reclamations for one vehicle. They also gave the statistics for defects sources: manufacturer defects 23.7%, suppliers defects 35.3, users defects 40.6%

    Tigrs: 245 (all mods) under warranty and 253 reclamations"

    Now here is a breakdown of defects of both Tigrs and BTRs:

    http://twower.livejournal.com/987879.html
    http://twower.livejournal.com/987561.html


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    Post  TR1 on Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:40 am

    http://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=1041721

    Wow. Huge news.
    Kantimirovskaya and Tamansaya brigades being turned back into divisions.

    So much for the reforms lol.
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    Post  Viktor on Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:51 am

    Perhaps there are areas where divisional structure is more suitable than brigade one.

    Are they going for full transition or partly one?
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    Post  TR1 on Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:44 am

    http://twower.livejournal.com/992698.html

    New info gleaned for GOZ 2013.

    In addition to the previously stated info (I xlated it earlier in the thread):

    -Various repair and maintenance work on 101 BMP-2 - 15 million USD
    -Medium repair on 97 T-72B/B1 and variants - 27.5 million USD
    -Repairs on 115 T-80BV - 34 million USD

    Some other minor stuff, and some big purchases of foreign sporting rifles.
    The T-80 news is welcome.

    The full list, if someone wants to do digging.

    http://www.rosoboronpostavka.ru/documents/pg_mo_150812.pdf
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    Post  GarryB on Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:37 am

    Foreign sporting rifles?

    For testing?

    That is disappointing... I would rather they bought SV-98 and other Russian rifles and just used the experience to ask for changes in design where required so Russian weapons get better, instead of Russian funds disappearing into western pockets.

    Would like to see the T-80s get a Burlak type upgrade with a turret bustle autoloader replacing the underfloor loader, whose design is flawed in the T-80 model. Either that or replace the autoloader with one like that fitted to the T-90/T-72 which is safer.
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    Post  flamming_python on Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:07 am

    Sporting rifles and so on in exotic calibres such as 5.6mm are usually used for training Snipers/Marksmen in the Russian military AFAIK.
    Could make sense given the formation of the new Sniper teams and so on; new equipment will be needed to train them

    There are some examples of Russian domestic models; http://cssk.ru/vintovki
    It looks are quite a few draw their heritage from the SVD, which suggests that they are older models

    It could be the case that Russian arms manufacturers simply ignored this niche and have had few new models of these types of rifles over the last 20 years. In fact there don't seem to have been many new Sniper/long-range rifles altogether; so I would assume new training rifles would be even more scarce.

    That may be the reason for the foreign purchases.
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:35 am

    Buying off the shelf foreign stuff does not teach Russian makers to build suitable weapons.

    It serves a purpose, but is very short sighted in my opinion.

    I agree there is very little in the way of match 12.7mm ammo in Russia and has not been for some time, but then with no 12.7 x 108mm sniper rifles there is hardly a market for such ammo in the first place.

    Russian military snipers are spoilt for choice... from .22lr (5.6mm) (SV-99 based on a biathlon rifle called Sobol), through selected AK-74s with scopes in 5.45mm calibre and including 9 x 39mm VSK-94 and VSS rifles, through Mosin Nagant rifles and SVD rifles of several types and calibres (SVDS, SVDK etc) through to modern bolt action designs like SV-98, MTs116, through the anti material rifles like AVSK, OSV-96, and now ASh-12 and VSSK. That does not even include the new SV-388 and 388 LM calibre SVD, as well as the ORSIS rifles and LOBIEV rifles.
    A lot of these weapons are not proven in service designs but if Russia keeps buying foreign rifles how will they get proven? Where will the funds come from to further develop them?

    Of course the ammo production sector also needs a lot of investment, and there have been articles about reducing the number of ammo making companies in Russia to a smaller number and then investing in upgrading their products and production capacity and quality.
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    Post  TR1 on Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:18 am

    Russian Ground Forces: News #1 - Page 20 20130217-IDEX-2013-5885

    Nice photo- you can see the detailed Terminator protection in the rear quadrant.
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    Post  flamming_python on Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:51 am

    GarryB wrote:Buying off the shelf foreign stuff does not teach Russian makers to build suitable weapons.

    It serves a purpose, but is very short sighted in my opinion.

    I agree there is very little in the way of match 12.7mm ammo in Russia and has not been for some time, but then with no 12.7 x 108mm sniper rifles there is hardly a market for such ammo in the first place.

    Russian military snipers are spoilt for choice... from .22lr (5.6mm) (SV-99 based on a biathlon rifle called Sobol), through selected AK-74s with scopes in 5.45mm calibre and including 9 x 39mm VSK-94 and VSS rifles, through Mosin Nagant rifles and SVD rifles of several types and calibres (SVDS, SVDK etc) through to modern bolt action designs like SV-98, MTs116, through the anti material rifles like AVSK, OSV-96, and now ASh-12 and VSSK. That does not even include the new SV-388 and 388 LM calibre SVD, as well as the ORSIS rifles and LOBIEV rifles.
    A lot of these weapons are not proven in service designs but if Russia keeps buying foreign rifles how will they get proven? Where will the funds come from to further develop them?

    Of course the ammo production sector also needs a lot of investment, and there have been articles about reducing the number of ammo making companies in Russia to a smaller number and then investing in upgrading their products and production capacity and quality.

    Honestly, the foreign sporting rifles will fill a very small niche (if I'm right); and the value of the contract will not be significant.
    It's better to just buy our snipers in training what they need right now, and relax. I mean there must be a reason why they decided to go for foreign training rifles instead of domestic ones; the sums are too small for political bribes or calculations to be a consideration.
    As these sporting rifles won't be used in actual combat, there will still be chances for Russian sniper rifles to prove themselves.
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:02 am

    Apple often almost give away software to tertiary institutions in the hope that the students will get used to using their software that when they leave and become IT managers etc they will consider using apple products professionally.

    Saving a little money buying foreign rifles for training is not really saving money at all.

    We have seen from shooting competitions recently that Orsis and even SV-98 rifles are competitive with the best... it might be that they are more expensive, but that should not be an issue... when production volumes increase the price will likely go down.

    If a company has an IT department then it makes sense to use that IT department for IT services rather than contract the work out... the result of contracted out services means your IT department will have nothing to do and get fat and lazy and when you need it it might not be what you are expecting.
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    Post  medo on Fri Mar 08, 2013 4:21 pm

    TR1 wrote:Russian Ground Forces: News #1 - Page 20 20130217-IDEX-2013-5885

    Nice photo- you can see the detailed Terminator protection in the rear quadrant.


    Kazakhstan said, they are quite happy with BMPT and that it works well for them.
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    Post  Zivo on Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:01 am

    Russian Ground Forces: News #1 - Page 20 20130217-IDEX-2013-5885

    What is the purpose of the vertical corrugated plates that surround the rear portion of the turret ring? Not the RPG cage but the three hinged plates.
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:29 am

    I would suggest they are stand off protection for the rear of the turret... contrary to popular belief those slat armour type arrangements are actually designed to destabilised armour piercing rounds and to dud RPG rounds.
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    Post  medo on Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:41 am

    Zivo wrote:Russian Ground Forces: News #1 - Page 20 20130217-IDEX-2013-5885

    What is the purpose of the vertical corrugated plates that surround the rear portion of the turret ring? Not the RPG cage but the three hinged plates.

    I think it is kind of protection, that dirt could not come in turret ring.
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    Post  Austin on Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:57 am

    Here is the Fully Interview with Oleg Sienko

    Arsenal: Russian Heavy Tank. Existing patterns and perspectives platform "Armata"
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    Post  TheArmenian on Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:28 pm

    Lots of prospective KAMAZ vehicles presented, including this TORNADO-G launch platform.
    More photos here: http://bmpd.livejournal.com/485975.html

    Russian Ground Forces: News #1 - Page 20 550712original
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    Post  GarryB on Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:50 pm

    Interesting, thanks for posting.

    The configuration of the rocket pods makes it look like the Grad rocket pods on the navys new light vessels for artillery support. Two 20 shot pods of presumably 122mm calibre rockets gives it the same fire power as GRAD, while its pod design makes reloading faster and easier (on land and at sea).

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