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Mistral News thread

JohninMK

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Post n°946

Re: Mistral News thread

JohninMK Wed Sep 23, 2015 6:30 pm

Looks as if they could have been sold for what France paid Russia. Wonder if they will now sail to Russia to finish fitting out?

According to earlier media reports, France will sell the two vessels, initially set to be delivered to Russia, for 950 million euro (over $1 billion).

PARIS (Sputnik) — French President Francois Hollande confirmed Wednesday that a deal has been reached with Egypt on the delivery of two Mistral-class helicopter carriers. "Over several weeks, we held talks on the Mistral sale with the Egyptian president… And yesterday a decision was made to provide the Mistrals to Egypt, we agreed with President Sisi on the terms and the price. France will not bear any financial costs from this agreement," Hollande told reporters.

France and Russia terminated a $1.3-billion contract last month following Hollande’s suspension of the warships’ deliveries late last year over the Ukrainian conflict. Paris repaid Moscow around $1 billion as compensation for the breached contract.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150923/1027417168/hollande-mistrals-egypt-costs.html#ixzz3ma0xn12C

Guest

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Post n°947

Re: Mistral News thread

Guest Wed Sep 23, 2015 7:43 pm

Huh, mediocre navy like Egypt getting Mistrals.... eh...

JohninMK

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Post n°948

Re: Mistral News thread

JohninMK Wed Sep 23, 2015 8:28 pm

Militarov wrote:Huh, mediocre navy like Egypt getting Mistrals.... eh...

Maybe now but money from the Gulf is being pumped into it, think of it as an embryo Arab Navy.

JohninMK

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Post n°949

Re: Mistral News thread

JohninMK Wed Sep 23, 2015 8:38 pm

Given the ship is designed for them they are a natural Ka-52K customer.

MOSCOW, September 23. /TASS/. Russia and Egypt have signed an agreement on supplies of fifty helicopters of the Ka-52 Alligator family and Moscow does not rule out delivery of the deck-based version of these helicopters that were designed for the defaulted Mistral project, a well-connected source in the sphere of defense technologies told TASS. "An agreement on the supplies of fifty Ka-52 helicopters has been signed," he said. "If the Egyptian side finds it necessary, the sea-based version of the helicopters will be supplied."

Officials at the state weaponry trading company Rosoboronexport refrained from commenting on the information.

Elysees Palace said earlier on Wednesday the French government had reached an agreement on the sales to Egypt of two Mistral-class helicopter carriers that were originally built for the Russian Navy.

Sources in the Russian Navy’s Main Headquarters told TASS in August that the Navy expects to receive the first Kamov Ka-52K (Katran) ship-borne helicopters in 2017-2018. The helicopters were earlier intended to be based on two Mistral helicopter carriers, which France has refused to deliver to Russia over Moscow's stance on developments in neighboring Ukraine. The Ka-52K is the deck-based version of the Ka-52 Alligator combat helicopter. Initially, this type of helicopters was developed for Mistral helicopter carriers ordered in France in 2011.

Admin

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Post n°950

Re: Mistral News thread

Admin Wed Sep 23, 2015 9:49 pm

sepheronx wrote:Mistral was meant as a transport ship with able to launch/land helicopters. It isnt spaced age tech or anything. Russia was interested in the comm systems and having good relations with France. Instead it got burned. I am glad the mistral deal fell through. And now that Russia got more roubles out of it than before, added that inflation is only 16% (and not in everything but selected items), they should use that towards building their own. Or more landing ships or something.

Interested in French comms yet we installed our own? They were never allowed to export radios based on NATO waveguides. We wanted modular shipbuilding and we got it... for free. Just because we get paid back in more rubles doesn't mean we made a profit... that is called breaking even when your currency collapses. We are spending $8 billion a month to keep it stable, this billion returned will last 3.5 days.

Admin

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Post n°951

Re: Mistral News thread

Admin Wed Sep 23, 2015 9:52 pm

JohninMK wrote:

Militarov wrote:Huh, mediocre navy like Egypt getting Mistrals.... eh...

Maybe now but money from the Gulf is being pumped into it, think of it as an embryo Arab Navy.

The Arab states are forming their own allied military funded by the GCC and manned by Egypt. They do so under the guise of fighting Islamists but they are trying to become a regional power. Like you really need Mistrals to patrol the Red Sea? Next stop Iran...

Guest

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Post n°952

Re: Mistral News thread

Guest Wed Sep 23, 2015 10:44 pm

Vladimir79 wrote:

JohninMK wrote:

Militarov wrote:Huh, mediocre navy like Egypt getting Mistrals.... eh...

Maybe now but money from the Gulf is being pumped into it, think of it as an embryo Arab Navy.

The Arab states are forming their own allied military funded by the GCC and manned by Egypt. They do so under the guise of fighting Islamists but they are trying to become a regional power. Like you really need Mistrals to patrol the Red Sea? Next stop Iran...

I dont mind Egypt getting Mistrals, better Egypt than Canada or Saudi Arabia if you ask me, but they imo lack support ships and infrastructure to host and use such ships. Also tbh i dont know whats the point of Mistral ships for such fairly small navy, Mistral is not littoral patrol ship or frigate. I am aware they invested quite alot in their navy recently but still if i was in their skin id rather spend my money on something else.

Admin

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Post n°953

Re: Mistral News thread

Admin Wed Sep 23, 2015 10:56 pm

Militarov wrote:

I dont mind Egypt getting Mistrals, better Egypt than Canada or Saudi Arabia if you ask me, but they imo lack support ships and infrastructure to host and use such ships. Also tbh i dont know whats the point of Mistral ships for such fairly small navy, Mistral is not littoral patrol ship or frigate. I am aware they invested quite alot in their navy recently but still if i was in their skin id rather spend my money on something else.

I really don't buy the excuse of using it to fight Houthis rebels, the GCC infrastructure is good enough to get troops as close or closer to the action than a floating army base can get it. BPC is a tool for power projection. Egypt cites the need as they have discovered natural gas off the coast, but what are they going to do with it in open water? Hey, we need to send an armoured brigade to defend the drilling rig?

Guest

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Post n°954

Re: Mistral News thread

Guest Wed Sep 23, 2015 11:27 pm

Vladimir79 wrote:

Militarov wrote:

I dont mind Egypt getting Mistrals, better Egypt than Canada or Saudi Arabia if you ask me, but they imo lack support ships and infrastructure to host and use such ships. Also tbh i dont know whats the point of Mistral ships for such fairly small navy, Mistral is not littoral patrol ship or frigate. I am aware they invested quite alot in their navy recently but still if i was in their skin id rather spend my money on something else.

I really don't buy the excuse of using it to fight Houthis rebels, the GCC infrastructure is good enough to get troops as close or closer to the action than a floating army base can get it. BPC is a tool for power projection. Egypt cites the need as they have discovered natural gas off the coast, but what are they going to do with it in open water? Hey, we need to send an armoured brigade to defend the drilling rig?

Egypt does not have THAT big coast, you can fairly easy and fast transport whatever you want from land bases especially with their amount of helicopters and transport aircraft.

Admin

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Post n°955

Re: Mistral News thread

Admin Wed Sep 23, 2015 11:32 pm

Militarov wrote:

Egypt does not have THAT big coast, you can fairly easy and fast transport whatever you want from land bases especially with their amount of helicopters and transport aircraft.

That is what doesn't make sense. The Sinai has some hard to reach terrain but it is no harder to drive there and hike than it is to conduct an amphibious operation and still hike into mountains. Of course Egypt is rather indebted to fight Houthis now that GCC practically bought their new military so Yemeni operations are foreseeable. Maybe they want to invade Somalia too? That makes more sense for a PCB.

TheArmenian

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Post n°956

Re: Mistral News thread

TheArmenian Thu Sep 24, 2015 12:33 am

Just a (very) wild guess about the Mistral sales to Egypt:

Egypt buys them. A few months later sells them back to Russia. US is outraged. French government fires the officials who "forgot" to put a clause in the contract that does not allow Egypt to sell the ships without French consent...

Twisted Evil

ExBeobachter1987

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Post n°957

Re: Mistral News thread

ExBeobachter1987 Thu Sep 24, 2015 12:57 am

TheArmenian wrote:Just a (very) wild guess about the Mistral sales to Egypt:

Egypt buys them. A few months later sells them back to Russia. US is outraged. French government fires the officials who "forgot" to put a clause in the contract that does not allow Egypt to sell the ships without French consent...

Certain Russians would be also outraged. angry

Admin

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Post n°958

Re: Mistral News thread

Admin Thu Sep 24, 2015 1:43 am

TheArmenian wrote:Just a (very) wild guess about the Mistral sales to Egypt:

Egypt buys them. A few months later sells them back to Russia. US is outraged. French government fires the officials who "forgot" to put a clause in the contract that does not allow Egypt to sell the ships without French consent...

They would void any service contracts or warranty, not to mention Egypt is in talks to buy Ka-52s. My only question is who is financing this... I heard rumours we could be offering low interest loans instead of French financing.

PapaDragon

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Post n°959

Re: Mistral News thread

PapaDragon Sat Sep 26, 2015 2:31 pm

Mistral News thread - Page 39 1027411989

JohninMK

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Post n°960

Re: Mistral News thread

JohninMK Tue Sep 29, 2015 8:51 pm

The ships are second owner now so Egypt will be negotiating hard on price, plus they come with complications in fitting out. Hollande's statement was certainly a hostage to fortune.

According to the French Senate Finance Commitee, the country's budget is set to lose about 250 million euros on the deal to sell two Mistral ships originally built for Russia to Egypt. "If the agreement with Egypt to resell the ships is implemented, it will cost the nation's budget 200 to 250 million euros," the committee's statement reads.

This is in stark contrast with last week's statement by French president Hollande that the nation would not bear any costs from the deal with Egypt. "A decision was made to provide the Mistrals to Egypt, we agreed with President Sisi on the terms and the price. France will not bear any financial costs from this agreement," he told reporters.

France and Russia terminated a $1.3-billion contract last month following Hollande’s suspension of the warships’ deliveries late last year over the Ukrainian conflict. Paris repaid Moscow around $1 billion as compensation for breaching the contract.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/business/20150929/1027732282/mistral-deal-egypt-financial-costs.html#ixzz3n9ffTfqs

PapaDragon

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Post n°961

Re: Mistral News thread

PapaDragon Wed Sep 30, 2015 9:38 pm

Mistral News thread - Page 39 1047512836

Admin

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Post n°962

Re: Mistral News thread

Admin Wed Sep 30, 2015 10:44 pm

JohninMK wrote:The ships are second owner now so Egypt will be negotiating hard on price, plus they come with complications in fitting out. Hollande's statement was certainly a hostage to fortune.

Not really... the loss is in long lead contracts not yet signed which Egypt will have to sign later in order to maintain its Mistrals. France will actually get more money out of Egypt as they can't build anything for it while we could replace most of it ourselves. The French Senate is trying to balance its budget and will be at a loss this year, however DCNS will get more business in the long term.

JohninMK

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Post n°963

Re: Mistral News thread

JohninMK Sun Oct 11, 2015 10:46 pm

Its all over now. Egypt has signed the contract, finance mainly from Saudi. Delivery in March after training for 400 Egyptian sailors.

No mention of fitting out etc.

(AFP) Machine translation from the French

French Prime Minister Manuel Valls Saturday in Cairo has finalized the sale to Egypt of two Mistral warships including the purchase by Russia had been canceled by Paris because of the Ukrainian crisis.

French President Francois Hollande announced September 23 that it had agreed the sale with his Egyptian counterpart Abdel Fattah al-Sissi. For an amount of about 950 million, had they then specified within the French government.

The French group of defense industries "DCNS" has signed with the Egyptian Navy contract of sale of the two buildings Mistral in the presence of MM. Sissi and Valls ", told AFP a member of the entourage of the French prime minister after his meeting with Egyptian President.

Mr. Valls Saturday in Egypt began a four-day tour of the Middle East, which also take him to Jordan and Saudi Arabia and will be dominated by bilateral trade and regional conflicts.

https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://www.lalibre.be/dernieres-depeches/afp/mistral-valls-finalise-la-vente-de-deux-navires-a-l-egypte-56191b9d35700fb92f97d97e&prev=search

GarryB

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Post n°964

Re: Mistral News thread

GarryB Mon Oct 12, 2015 8:52 am

Well you say it is all over, but the Russians had signed and paid and got the training too... what happens when Egypt does something France does not like... or should I say what happens when Egypt does something Washington doesn't like...

Project Canada

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Post n°965

Re: Mistral News thread

Project Canada Wed Oct 14, 2015 11:26 am

Second Time Lucky? France Says It Is Ready to Sell New Ships to Russia

French president seems to be good at humor Laughing

Rodinazombie

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Post n°966

Re: Mistral News thread

Rodinazombie Wed Oct 14, 2015 11:42 am

Project Canada wrote:
Second Time Lucky? France Says It Is Ready to Sell New Ships to Russia

French president seems to be good at humor

You gotta be kidding me

Then again, without trying to sound lke the twins, i can imagine russia doing it out of goodwill, in order to revive the relationship with one of its western 'partners'. Though i doubt it would be a military ship.

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Post n°967

Re: Mistral News thread

Guest Wed Oct 14, 2015 11:42 am

Project Canada wrote:
Second Time Lucky? France Says It Is Ready to Sell New Ships to Russia

French president seems to be good at humor

He was probably talking about civilian shipbuilding, i doubt he has any ilusion about selling military ships to Russia, coz again contract would just get blocked by USA as did this one. They cant sell pencil abroad without consulting NATO.

medo

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Post n°968

Re: Mistral News thread

medo Wed Oct 14, 2015 2:33 pm

Project Canada wrote:
Second Time Lucky? France Says It Is Ready to Sell New Ships to Russia

French president seems to be good at humor

They could, but only under condition, that ships will be 100% build in Russian shipyards. In that way, Russia could buy new Mistrals as France could not block deliveries from St. Petersburg's shipyards. Russia could now buy only blueprints and documentation and build them themselves.

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Post n°969

Re: Mistral News thread

KoTeMoRe Wed Oct 14, 2015 2:38 pm

medo wrote:

Project Canada wrote:
Second Time Lucky? France Says It Is Ready to Sell New Ships to Russia

French president seems to be good at humor

They could, but only under condition, that ships will be 100% build in Russian shipyards. In that way, Russia could buy new Mistrals as France could not block deliveries from St. Petersburg's shipyards. Russia could now buy only blueprints and documentation and build them themselves.

Russia has already ToT. What Russia needs is the blocks to make the modular assembly. These would be built in France and shipped in Russia by boat.

Insert, "Hey dawg..." joke here.

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Post n°970

Re: Mistral News thread

Guest Wed Oct 14, 2015 2:41 pm

"France currently operates 3 Mistral Class LHDs, after buying a 3rd using economic stimulus funds. Unlike other LHD designs, the Mistral Class can’t operate fixed wing aircraft, and some observers in Russia and elsewhere classify at as an LHA. Regardless, it’s an important tool of power projection. Mistral Class ships can carry and deploy up to 16 helicopters, including attack helicopters like France’s Tiger or Russia’s Ka-50/52. Their main punch revolves around 4 landing barges or 2 medium hovercraft, however, which deliver armored vehicles, tanks, and soldiers to shore. Vessels of this class are equipped with a 69-bed hospital, and could be used as amphibious command ships.

Russia wants that kind of versatility – even as her neighbors fear it. After Russia’s annexation of Ukraine and the continued covert war in Eastern Ukraine, this contract became a major point of contention between Russia and NATO members."

Not sure why, but i always start laughing at this typo Very Happy

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