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    Mistral News thread

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    Vladimir79
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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  Vladimir79 on Thu May 28, 2015 10:58 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Vladimir79 wrote:
    higurashihougi wrote:Now I wonder what France is going to do with the Mistral ? Sell it to... China ? Shocked

    Probably Canada and a Scandinavian country if the discount is deep enough.  They are in need of Arctic certified vessels.  

    Well so far the rumour has it that the vessels cannot be ceded to a NATO-party if they want to re-sell them. So the only possibility is Sweden, with a billion Euro pricetag, which the Swedish MoD doesn't have, plus about half a billion for armament and refit. Ergo about 20 to 25% extension to the current budget.

    Once the money is returned, the contract is nullified leaving DCNS free to do whatever they want with them.


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    mutantsushi
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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  mutantsushi on Fri May 29, 2015 12:53 am

    Even the French say because Russia constructed one block of the ship, and issues the certificate for that portion,
    that they cannot sell the whole ship off without Russia's approval... In their negotiations they seek to ensure
    that Russia will approve transfering that certificate, but of course, the decision on that is still in Russia's court.

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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  GarryB on Fri May 29, 2015 12:58 pm

    I would expect whatever happens... whether France decides to finally deliver them, or decides to refund and pay penalties that France will ensure Russia signs off allowing the ownership to transfer fully to France so they can do what they like with them... no strings attached.

    Hopefully Russia will take advantage of this situation and get top dollar in compensation...


    contrived and created, isnt it the same thing?

    Roughly, yes, but talking about the general and the specific sounds funny with repetition... in other words saying:

    (I mean real ones... not contrived ones like the west contrive...)

    Just doesn't sound right... Smile


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    KoTeMoRe
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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Fri May 29, 2015 1:49 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Vladimir79 wrote:
    higurashihougi wrote:Now I wonder what France is going to do with the Mistral ? Sell it to... China ? Shocked

    Probably Canada and a Scandinavian country if the discount is deep enough.  They are in need of Arctic certified vessels.  

    Well so far the rumour has it that the vessels cannot be ceded to a NATO-party if they want to re-sell them. So the only possibility is Sweden, with a billion Euro pricetag, which the Swedish MoD doesn't have, plus about half a billion for armament and refit. Ergo about 20 to 25% extension to the current budget.

    Once the money is returned, the contract is nullified leaving DCNS free to do whatever they want with them.  

    It is more complicated. France has created the conditions, for Russia to invoke what's called a "réscision pour vice radical". I.E. in French Law, it is a contract concluded by two parties, where one party, ties retroactively the contract, despite prior clauses (ToT, Part-building, licensing etc) to a new and irrelevant cause and effect, which can be taken to face value as a conspiration/ dolus to never deliver on its part of the contract. IE France built two ships with Russian money, that it intended to sell to another party...

    This is supported by the fact that France hasn't any barrier or case of 'force majeure' that blocks it from delivering the ships. As both Ships are unarmed, they can't be any contest about weapons transfer; As the goods are pre-paid, there can't be any contest about arrears. It also derives from the French attempts to resell ships it hasn't full rights, while it had said it will deliver them. The evershifting French Position makes it clear that the Vendor has never had ANY intention to deliver the ships. It was made worse by the lax security on the vessels which resultes in diverse thefts (including two laptops with sensitive material from the ships). Off course this is the angle Russian attorneys need to attack. Because France is litterally defenceless on that point.

    France hasn't a chance in hell to get out of this without shelling out serious money. SERIOUS. Fric.

    Vladimir79
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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  Vladimir79 on Fri May 29, 2015 6:45 pm

    Apparently deal is still in limbo. Bochkarev had no authority to say it was off and has been punished.


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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri May 29, 2015 8:52 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:Apparently deal is still in limbo.  Bochkarev had no authority to say it was off and has been punished.


    Naaah Dima Rogozin wanted to be first watching French facial expressions when they are told something like бери Мистрале в жопу, сука and Bochkarev stole the whole fun respekt

    More seriously I suspect that you all believe in so called law. Law is for weak to punish them. In west there is only one law. Law of jungle, until Russian has a powerful lever to nationalize billions of French money or visit Cossacks in Paris no money will be returned.

    Since Thucydides times nothing changed censored

    mutantsushi
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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  mutantsushi on Fri May 29, 2015 11:08 pm

    Sure, until Russia is as powerful as 80's Libya, 90's Iraq, or 80's Iran...
    Those all prevailed in contract-mandated arbitration precedings vs. sanctions regimes, even vs. UNSC-mandated ones (unlike Russia faces).
    Worst case, France could prevent immediate payment to Russia, but the monies would still be taken from DCNS accounts and put into escrow.
    Russia hardly needs immediate payment, and the escrow scenario hurts France/DCNS just as badly.

    Book.
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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  Book. on Sat May 30, 2015 1:31 am

    Do think China LHD better the mistral?

    George1
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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  George1 on Sat May 30, 2015 1:35 pm

    France Completes Work on Second Russian-Commissioned Warship

    France has completed its construction of a second Russian-commissioned Mistral helicopter carrier in Saint-Nazaire, a port town in the country's northwest, according to local media reports.

    PARIS (Sputnik) — The Presse Ocean outlet cited a Force Ouvriere union representative, Nathalie Durand-Prinborgne, confirming that construction of the Sevastopol has finished.

    Neither the DCNR naval defense company or its affiliate STX has so far commented on the reports of the Sevastopol's completion.

    The Sevastopol is now expected to join the Vladivostok, scheduled to be handed over to Russia in November 2014, to moor in the port of Saint-Nazaire pending French President Francois Hollande's decision.

    Hollande suspended the deliveries under the two countries' $1.5 billion contract signed in 2011 as an expression of his disapproval of Moscow's alleged role in the Ukrainian conflict, claims disputed by the Kremlin.

    A French delegation visited Moscow earlier in the week to resolve the ongoing dispute, but a Russian source familiar with negotiations said Friday they did not yield any results.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/world/20150530/1022744280.html#ixzz3bcXoz6o9

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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  kvs on Sat May 30, 2015 1:53 pm

    Book. wrote:Do think China LHD better the mistral?

    The specs look better compared to the Mistral. The only reason that Russia ever went for the Mistrals was because of
    Serdyukov and Medvedev's attempt to make friendly with NATO. All that Russia got in return was the bloody overturn
    in Libya, the Georgian attack on South Ossetia and now Ukraine.

    Russia should use any pretext to cancel the Mistral contract. It is embarrassing that China can develop something like
    the LHD and Russia needs to get something similar from NATO. Russia has the capacity to produce its own design and
    should have done that in the first place.

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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat May 30, 2015 2:40 pm

    Russian is at the final stage is the design of a large amphibious assault ship type "Mistral"



    http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/2006880

    sunny

    MOSCOW, may 30. /TASS /. Russia at the final stage is the design of a large amphibious assault ship, not inferior to the "Mistral".

    This was reported on Saturday on air of radio "Echo of Moscow" the head of Department of shipbuilding of the Russian Navy captain 1st rank Vladimir Trapeznikov.
    He noted that today the issue on the supply ship type "Mistral" is in development.
    "Our military industrial complex is quite capable to build such a ship. Now is designing a large landing ship of the new project. Create its appearance at the final stage," said Trapeznikov.

    jhelb
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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  jhelb on Sat May 30, 2015 6:26 pm



    Book.
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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  Book. on Sat May 30, 2015 8:45 pm

    kvs wrote:
    Book. wrote:Do think China LHD better the mistral?

    The specs look better compared to the Mistral.   The only reason that Russia ever went for the Mistrals was because of
    Serdyukov and Medvedev's attempt to make friendly with NATO.   All that Russia got in return was the bloody overturn
    in Libya, the Georgian attack on South Ossetia and now Ukraine.

    Russia should use any pretext to cancel the Mistral contract.   It is embarrassing that China can develop something like
    the LHD and Russia needs to get something similar from NATO.   Russia has the capacity to produce its own design and
    should have done that in the first place.

    I read the note. Type 081 LHD the 35 000 ton

    Russia must 40 000 ton no less. But save cost can friend China

    Thank Kvs

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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  George1 on Sun May 31, 2015 4:07 am

    Possible temporary solution the repair and recovery of Ivan Rogov-class landing ships? (Aleksandr Nikolayev and Mitrofan Moskalenko are in reserve)

    http://vpk-news.ru/news/25408

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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  GarryB on Sun May 31, 2015 5:42 am

    I actually like the Mistral design... it is a very good vessel, but now that there is talk of new upgraded designs with nuclear propulsion and more Russian oriented design I actually think it might be best if France does keep them... best for Russia that is... I am beyond caring what is best for France... Razz


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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  Big_Gazza on Sun May 31, 2015 12:52 pm

    GarryB wrote:I am beyond caring what is best for France... Razz

    Same here. I was disparaging about the US insults to the French when Chirac did the honourable thing and refused to take part in the illegal US aggression against Iraq, but I will borrow one particular phrase from that time - cheese eating surrender monkeys. If any phrase captures the cowardly nature of Hollandes modern day France then that is it.

    Going cheap, French WW2 army rifles - never fired, dropped once... Laughing

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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  jhelb on Sun May 31, 2015 7:08 pm

    GarryB wrote: I am beyond caring what is best for France... Razz

    Hey Garry, look what I found....... more good news for the French



    India to buy only 36 Rafales instead of 126


    lol! lol! lol!

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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun May 31, 2015 8:04 pm

    George1 wrote:Possible temporary solution the repair and recovery of Ivan Rogov-class landing ships? (Aleksandr Nikolayev and Mitrofan Moskalenko are in reserve)

    http://vpk-news.ru/news/25408

    Ivan Rogoff is kinda of Karel Doorman logistic support ship. Wht in case of Russia IMHO is much better option. Helo carrier is better to use as ASW or air support but still well armed.

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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  Mike E on Sun May 31, 2015 8:05 pm

    jhelb wrote:
    India to buy only 36 Rafales instead of 126

    ...well this was inevitable. France is destroying their reputation (weapon-manufacturing wise) piece by piece.

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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  Cyberspec on Mon Jun 01, 2015 12:04 am

    I don't think the reduction of the Rafale order is really conected with the Mistral's.

    The reactivation of the Ivan Rogov ships sounds feasible, although they would require new engines among other things according to the link above

    these ships are in good condition, but to restore their technical readiness, if necessary, will require a considerable amount of repairs, including the replacement of the main power plants," - a spokesman said

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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  collegeboy16 on Mon Jun 01, 2015 12:43 am

    Mike E wrote:
    jhelb wrote:
    India to buy only 36 Rafales instead of 126

    ...well this was inevitable. France is destroying their reputation (weapon-manufacturing wise) piece by piece.
    actually, ill have to say they won with this one. they still made a sale, and more importantly it was government to government, no muss, no fuss deal.

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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  OminousSpudd on Mon Jun 01, 2015 12:52 am

    collegeboy16 wrote:
    Mike E wrote:
    jhelb wrote:
    India to buy only 36 Rafales instead of 126

    ...well this was inevitable. France is destroying their reputation (weapon-manufacturing wise) piece by piece.
    actually, ill have to say they won with this one. they still made a sale, and more importantly it was government to government, no muss, no fuss deal.

    Guarantee all the Indian mil forums will be exploding with happiness at the news of their purchase, convinced that they've bought superior Western hardware, which is so much better than any Russian export option. scratch

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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Jun 01, 2015 1:44 am

    Well, it is a win sort of, for 36 aircrafts but France lost out on the overall deal and the real money maker. Indian mill can say whatever they like and we all know they have been full of crap like their pakistani counterparts.

    Curious if they get the AESA radar or not. Cause not all French Rafale's have them. Actually, contrary to what house said, none of them have them and they were to be inducted a couple years ago with no real word. Unless someone has a link that says otherwise.

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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  Cyberspec on Mon Jun 01, 2015 1:58 am

    Stay on topic guys Smile

    The 'Moskalenko' around 2009.....it almost got scrapped during Serduyokov's tenure




    'Aleksandar Nikolaev' - 2007



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    Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  medo on Mon Jun 01, 2015 9:11 pm





    It looks like this will be the new Russian LHD similar to Mistral ship.

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