Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Russian Cruise Missiles Thread

    kvs
    kvs

    Posts : 8813
    Points : 8956
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    Russian Cruise Missiles Thread - Page 7 Empty Re: Russian Cruise Missiles Thread

    Post  kvs Mon Jan 25, 2021 4:18 am

    Scorpius wrote:
    George1 wrote:It notes that from 2012 to 2020, the number of cruise missiles in service with the Russian army increased 37 times. This type of weapons includes sea-based missiles "Caliber", air missiles X-101, and other similar types of weapons. Many of them are part of the strategic non-nuclear forces.

    https://en.topwar.ru/178434-rossijskij-arsenal-krylatyh-raket-bolshoj-dalnosti-vyros-v-desjatki-raz.html

    At the beginning of next year, we will conclude long-term contracts for the additional purchase of high-precision long-range missiles, which will double their number.
    Quote from the official report of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation on the results of 2020.

    So, after a couple of years, the x37 will have to double.

    I think this is an overlooked Russian response to NATzO's aggression.   Recall back in the 1980s NATO was all giddy because it thought its cruise
    missiles were a game changer against the USSR.   There were books written on the subject.   Somehow this aspect of cruise missiles faded away.
    But it makes sense for Russia to have the ability to launch saturation attacks using cruise missiles.   This is a strategic deterrent even if the
    missiles are not strategic nuclear warhead carriers.   It is like a super long range artillery barrage with deadly accuracy that will soften up any invading
    military alliance.  

    Syria was a good wake up call to NATzO planners who drank the koolaid where Russia did not have long range cruise missile ability.   A
    relic from the 1980s.
    Isos
    Isos

    Posts : 7244
    Points : 7230
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Russian Cruise Missiles Thread - Page 7 Empty Re: Russian Cruise Missiles Thread

    Post  Isos Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:21 pm

    USSR was less protected than Russia against cruise missiles.

    In Syria thry had state of the art radars to detect them and systems designed to hit such targets.

    USSR had only tor and S-300.

    With 100 good hits you can make lot of damages to a country (Main companies, HQ, political decapitation, oil reserves, main bridges, nuclear powerplants and dam...).
    avatar
    calripson

    Posts : 430
    Points : 467
    Join date : 2013-10-26

    Russian Cruise Missiles Thread - Page 7 Empty Syria

    Post  calripson Mon Jan 25, 2021 4:33 pm

    kvs wrote:
    Scorpius wrote:
    George1 wrote:It notes that from 2012 to 2020, the number of cruise missiles in service with the Russian army increased 37 times. This type of weapons includes sea-based missiles "Caliber", air missiles X-101, and other similar types of weapons. Many of them are part of the strategic non-nuclear forces.

    https://en.topwar.ru/178434-rossijskij-arsenal-krylatyh-raket-bolshoj-dalnosti-vyros-v-desjatki-raz.html

    At the beginning of next year, we will conclude long-term contracts for the additional purchase of high-precision long-range missiles, which will double their number.
    Quote from the official report of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation on the results of 2020.

    So, after a couple of years, the x37 will have to double.

    I think this is an overlooked Russian response to NATzO's aggression.   Recall back in the 1980s NATO was all giddy because it thought its cruise
    missiles were a game changer against the USSR.   There were books written on the subject.   Somehow this aspect of cruise missiles faded away.
    But it makes sense for Russia to have the ability to launch saturation attacks using cruise missiles.   This is a strategic deterrent even if the
    missiles are not strategic nuclear warhead carriers.   It is like a super long range artillery barrage with deadly accuracy that will soften up any invading
    military alliance.  

    Syria was a good wake up call to NATzO planners who drank the koolaid where Russia did not have long range cruise missile ability.   A


    As I mentioned, the use of Caspian Sea launched Caliber missiles was overkill. It was meant to send a clear message. Kind of like Truman dropping two atom bombs on Japan was a not to subtle message intended for Stalin.
    relic from the 1980s.
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 28085
    Points : 28615
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Russian Cruise Missiles Thread - Page 7 Empty Re: Russian Cruise Missiles Thread

    Post  GarryB Tue Jan 26, 2021 7:48 am

    USSR had only tor and S-300.

    To be fair they also had the PVO with Flankers and Foxhounds and Fulcrums...

    Even SA-8 proved effective against slow low flying cruise missiles...

    But it was the driving force behind their IADS and basically all their current missiles being modified to shoot down low flying cruise missiles... including MANPADS and ATGMs.

    The main difference now is the quality and depth of radar coverage they have to see small things coming.

    Obviously the INF treaty only changed things a little bit by getting rid of land based cruise missiles but not naval or air launched missiles...

    Scorpius likes this post

    avatar
    mnztr

    Posts : 914
    Points : 944
    Join date : 2018-01-21

    Russian Cruise Missiles Thread - Page 7 Empty Re: Russian Cruise Missiles Thread

    Post  mnztr Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:56 am

    Isos wrote:

    That was 30 years ago. All of them were for sure destroyed. They have limit date.

    They are deploying kh-101/102 for a long time now.


    I doubt cruise missiles that time out are just discarded. KH-55 was pretty accurate. I doubt they would just destory timed out missiles without taking delivery of new ones one for one. If new missiles are not available you rebuild the old ones. They received them from Ukraine in around 2000. At the end of the USSR Ukraine had about 1700 KH-55s so we start to get an idea of what Russia would see as a reasonable inventory. If 1700 were based in Ukraine then you know they probably had at least 2000 in Russia as well. In todays reality with a much smaller airforce I can see them relying more on cruise missiles and a reasonable inventory considering all the platforms would be 7-10000 missiles.
    avatar
    mnztr

    Posts : 914
    Points : 944
    Join date : 2018-01-21

    Russian Cruise Missiles Thread - Page 7 Empty Re: Russian Cruise Missiles Thread

    Post  mnztr Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:58 am

    lyle6 wrote:

    Kh-55s are nuclear only. Way too imprecise otherwise.

    Not at all true. You can aim them at a building and have them go thorough the window.
    Isos
    Isos

    Posts : 7244
    Points : 7230
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Russian Cruise Missiles Thread - Page 7 Empty Re: Russian Cruise Missiles Thread

    Post  Isos Sun Feb 14, 2021 2:09 pm

    Do they have a program for a dummy target drone like US TALD to make enemy air defence spend they missiles on fake targets ?
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 28085
    Points : 28615
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Russian Cruise Missiles Thread - Page 7 Empty Re: Russian Cruise Missiles Thread

    Post  GarryB Mon Feb 15, 2021 1:57 am

    Not at all true. You can aim them at a building and have them go thorough the window.

    Actually very true... the Kh-55 had a CEP of about 200m which is good enough for a nuclear payload... but if they are launching cruise missiles at Europe it is not a question of precision strikes against point targets... Europe is the threat so they need to do as much damage as they can so a 200 CEP nuke is actually better than a through the window 400kg conventional payload weapon.

    For nuclear attack the Kh-55SM is good enough for any target within 3,000km... the Kh-55 is the older model with 2,500km range... the Kh-555 is the much shorter range conventional model with Kh-101 terminal guidance for through the window attacks.

    The point is that apart from the nuclear warhead the Kh-55SM would be the cheapest and easiest to mass produce even now.... it is also smaller and lighter and with the INF treaty gone you could bundle them 6 to a train carriage and carry thousands.

    There is nothing difficult about making them so even a small firm that makes small aircraft could build them... these days the computer performance in a cell phone will be more than enough to control one from launch to impact.... the improved digital maps means it might be rather more accurate... say 100m CEP assuming GLONASS is being jammed at the target end.

    Do they have a program for a dummy target drone like US TALD to make enemy air defence spend they missiles on fake targets ?

    Honestly I would think Russian missiles cost less than US decoys and dummies, but there are 122mm rockets the Su-25 and Su-24 and Su-34 or in fact any aircraft that carries the 5 shot 122mm rocket pods where there is a decoy jammer rocket that sprouts wings on launch and starts up a pulse detonation jet engine and flys into enemy held territory for the launch aircraft to monitor radar and radio signals... I would expect that is just the tip of the iceberg, but also that such systems are rather secret too.

    dino00 likes this post

    avatar
    mnztr

    Posts : 914
    Points : 944
    Join date : 2018-01-21

    Russian Cruise Missiles Thread - Page 7 Empty Re: Russian Cruise Missiles Thread

    Post  mnztr Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:28 pm

    CEP for KH-55 is listed as 25m. There was also a optical terminal guidance version the SM, that was for precision strike. Missile threat lists the KH-555 range as 3500 km. Of course with deliberately deceptive Russian missile model numbers its hard to know whats what. Yeah I think the KH series is pretty awesome and can just do with targeting upgrades. Other then that, easy to build, probably lots in stock for cheap upgrade, 3500km... what more do you really need.
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 28085
    Points : 28615
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Russian Cruise Missiles Thread - Page 7 Empty Re: Russian Cruise Missiles Thread

    Post  GarryB Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:37 am

    CEP for KH-55 is listed as 25m.

    Not sure where you are getting your figures from but that is way too accurate for a missile with no terminal guidance system, just a terrain comparison system for flight along the way.

    With its nuclear payload it would not need that level of precision.

    There was also a optical terminal guidance version the SM, that was for precision strike.

    The Kh-55 is nuclear armed and has little need for that level of precision. The Kh-55SM is the same missile with saddle tanks to extend the flight range from 2,500km to 3,000km and also uses a nuclear warhead.

    The Kh-555 has the terminal seeker of the Kh-101 and the conventional warhead and has a CEP of 3m to 5m and a conventional HE warhead.

    Missile threat lists the KH-555 range as 3500 km.

    I believe its range has been revealed to be between 2,500km and 2,800km...


    They started making Kh-55s in the late 1970s, but replaced it in about the mid 80s with the Kh-55SM with saddle fuel tanks and slightly increased range.

    The first Kh-555s were converted Kh-55s... it was Kh-555s that were used in Syria along with Kh-101 which are both conventionally armed cruise missiles...


    Yeah I think the KH series is pretty awesome and can just do with targeting upgrades. Other then that, easy to build, probably lots in stock for cheap upgrade, 3500km... what more do you really need.

    There were essentially three families... the Kh-55, which improved to Kh-55SM and then the conventional Kh-555, and the 3M10 Granat, which was the naval system that has since evolved into the Klub and Kalibr system (Klub for export Kalibr for domestic use).

    The Kh-101/102 is an enlarged and extended range missile family... no longer 533mm calibre for launching from torpedo tubes and no longer 6m long for fitting internal bomber weapon bays the new 750mm calibre 7.4m long missiles have much better flight range and will likely replace sea based versions too.

    As you point out the older shorter smaller missiles are just as useful as they ever were and you could fit huge bundles on trucks and trains and shipping crates...

    Sponsored content

    Russian Cruise Missiles Thread - Page 7 Empty Re: Russian Cruise Missiles Thread

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Sun Mar 07, 2021 12:29 pm