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    Russian Cruise Missiles Thread

    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Thu Dec 31, 2020 6:51 pm

    Interesting rumors of the development/testing of Kh-50/SD/Izd. 715
    #RuAF #Hypersonic #Изделие715
    Reports about ongoing tests of the classified #Izdeliye715 (aka #Kh50 / Kh-SD) AS missile which is to succeed / supplement current Kh-32. Kh-50 can fit into the internal bomb bay, reach speed of mach 6, max R of 1500km & is low observable.
    Russian Cruise Missiles Thread - Page 6 Eqg_CUmVQAAXzLz?format=jpg&name=900x900
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    https://twitter.com/Cyberspec1/status/1344394805003001856

    Note: The depictions of the Kh-50 are older & are probably wrong or are of a different missile. There don't seem to be any pics or drawings of the Izd 715...also a mach 12 version is reportedly in development.

    https://twitter.com/Cyberspec1/status/1344395537752100864

    These are just rumors for now.

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Thu Dec 31, 2020 7:09 pm

    This is a replacement for kh-101 but for sure not kh-32.

    This thing is subsonic.

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    thegopnik
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    Post  thegopnik Thu Dec 31, 2020 7:27 pm

    Love how I was viewing this thread not too long ago reading more about GZUR until this news information came up thanks. Very Happy
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    mnztr


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    Post  mnztr Fri Jan 01, 2021 3:37 am

    I doubt they plan to double the number in a couple of years, more likely they are sigining contracts to maintain production rates. They have a shit load of missiles already. Russia has a long believed in quantity. They have a bonkers number of artillary guns, mortars, mlrs etc in inventory. Looks like they will get there with the cruise missiles as well.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Fri Jan 01, 2021 7:56 am

    The number of uksk launchers is increasing quickly. That's normal that they have more missiles.

    With all the gorshkovs, yasen and other ships they are building they will need to have around 1000 ready to fire missiles inside them. They will also need a stock of 2 or 3 missile per cell so that increase to 2000-3000 missiles in total.
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    Post  PapaDragon Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:26 am

    Isos wrote:The number of uksk launchers is increasing quickly. That's normal that they have more missiles.

    With all the gorshkovs, yasen and other ships they are building they will need to have around 1000 ready to fire missiles inside them. They will also need a stock of 2 or 3 missile per cell so that increase to 2000-3000 missiles in total.

    And they also need to launch a few of them every year, they don't have indefinite expiration date
    franco
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    Post  franco Fri Jan 01, 2021 9:22 am

    Scorpius wrote:
    George1 wrote:It notes that from 2012 to 2020, the number of cruise missiles in service with the Russian army increased 37 times. This type of weapons includes sea-based missiles "Caliber", air missiles X-101, and other similar types of weapons. Many of them are part of the strategic non-nuclear forces.

    https://en.topwar.ru/178434-rossijskij-arsenal-krylatyh-raket-bolshoj-dalnosti-vyros-v-desjatki-raz.html

    At the beginning of next year, we will conclude long-term contracts for the additional purchase of high-precision long-range missiles, which will double their number.
    Quote from the official report of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation on the results of 2020.

    So, after a couple of years, the x37 will have to double.

    Remember reading the total of non-nuclear cruise missiles available at the start of this and it was only double digits hence the massive growth even with testing and use in Syria.
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    Post  mnztr Fri Jan 01, 2021 1:41 pm

    Isos wrote:The number of uksk launchers is increasing quickly. That's normal that they have more missiles.

    With all the gorshkovs, yasen and other ships they are building they will need to have around 1000 ready to fire missiles inside them. They will also need a stock of 2 or 3 missile per cell so that increase to 2000-3000 missiles in total.

    Yeah but they have 3700% more missiles since 2012, and in 2012 they already had quiet a few!!
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    Post  mnztr Fri Jan 01, 2021 1:43 pm

    franco wrote:

    Remember reading the total of non-nuclear cruise missiles available at the start of this and it was only double digits hence the massive growth even with testing and use in Syria.

    How can it only be double digits, no way. The had a lot of cruise missile models already that were quite mature.
    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Fri Jan 01, 2021 9:15 pm

    mnztr wrote:
    How can it only be double digits, no way. The had a lot of cruise missile models already that were quite mature.

    The bomber force alone would have ~1000 nuclear warheads which would need missiles to mate with. Add the substantial non-strategic nuclear warhead stockpile to the list and its not surprising even Russia would be left with but a couple dozen cruise missiles carrying conventional warheads. Not that big of a deal given the then emphasis on nuclear weaponry as deterrence in light of weak state of the Russian armed forces then. But that did meant that Russia didn't have any effective options for strategic strikes outside of nukes though, which is not ideal.
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    Post  mnztr Fri Jan 01, 2021 11:36 pm

    KH-55 was in service since the mid 80s, no way they built less then 1000 of those.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Sat Jan 02, 2021 6:32 am

    mnztr wrote:
    franco wrote:

    Remember reading the total of non-nuclear cruise missiles available at the start of this and it was only double digits hence the massive growth even with testing and use in Syria.

    How can it only be double digits, no way. The had a lot of cruise missile models already that were quite mature.


    They had missiles like kh-31 or kh-25.

    But missiles like kh-59, kh-101/55 or land attack cruise missiles weren't that much used or produced. And they kept them for use against NATO.

    They always used rockets or unguided bombs which was more destructive and cheaper but put the planes at risk.
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    Post  franco Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:43 am

    mnztr wrote:KH-55 was in service since the mid 80s, no way they built less then 1000 of those.

    Think about your argument. If they had 1,000 cruise missiles at the start then by Shoigu's statement they have 37,000 now so have produced 4,000 per year plus extras for usage and testing?

    As opposed to ~80 cruise missiles then and 3,000 now? And for clarification we are talking about non-nuclear warheads.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:56 am

    They have a limit date. USSR may have produced 1000 of them but all are dead and never replaced by Russia.

    They just started mass production last couple of years and it is mostly kh-101 and kalibr.

    Kh-59mk2 was ready long time ago and was tested only recently in Syria by su-57. So they didn't buy any before that.


    Chinese also have tens of new models but doesn't seems to mass produce all of them and most of the one used are based on old soviet missiles.

    That's not cheap. No matter what their price is, buying 1000 of them means adding 000 at the end of the price which make it very expensive.


    NATO run out of guided ammo against ISIS (and they weren't attacking them that much) and they were only guided bombs. Missiles like kh-101 or kalibr are very expensive.

    They will very likely start mass producing the small guided
    glide bombs for UAVs and intergrate them on sukhois. More accuracy means smaller warhead.
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    Post  mnztr Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:59 pm

    KH-55s need some checks but they are gas turbine powered so they do not age out the way rocket powered missiles do. They are probably fueled and defulled on a regular cycle, batteries replaced and its pretty much all good. There is no way they would just bin these missiles as they are excellent and still highly viable missiles today. Ukriane sold Iran 12 and now Iran makes a version. Cruise missile with 2500km range, how many nations even today can make one? We all know the good 'ol USSR never ordered just 1000 missiles. I would say at least 3-4000. So maybe the DM is talking about a specific catagory of weapons. I would be very surprised if Russia has less then 7-10,000 cruise missiles with range over 1000 km today. Heck even Iran has hundreds and hundreds.
    I did find a note that Ukraine returned 575 missiles to Russia in payment of gas debts, so if 575 were in Ukraine...well.

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    GarryB
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    Russian Cruise Missiles Thread - Page 6 Empty My understanding is that the Kh-50

    Post  GarryB Mon Jan 04, 2021 6:17 am

    My understanding is that the Kh-50 is a "mini" cruise missile with a range of 1500km previously called Kh-SD intended for internal carriage on Bears and Backfires that is a stealthy subsonic short relatively light missile.


    The mach 6 and Mach 12 missiles being talked about are GZUR and GZUR II and will likely not be ready for some time... the latter being a strategic missile while the former is more of a short range attack missile to replace the Kh-15 kickback.
    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:35 pm

    This is a nice thread by Dmitry Stefanovich calculating that Russia has now between 2,000 and 3,000 long range and cruise missiles, with maybe half of it available for a first salvo and prospects for that number to increase notably when Kh-50 is put in service:

    https://twitter.com/KomissarWhipla/status/1348674176907943936

    With all of them being dual capable, this is another number to check if the geniuses in the West can count...
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    Post  franco Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:20 pm

    Wink

    Think about your argument. If they had 1,000 cruise missiles at the start then by Shoigu's statement they have 37,000 now so have produced 4,000 per year plus extras for usage and testing?

    As opposed to ~80 cruise missiles then and 3,000 now? And for clarification we are talking about non-nuclear warheads.


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    mnztr


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    Post  mnztr Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:51 pm

    Ukraine sent 575 cruise missiles back to Russia. So even if they somehow had zero, then they had at least 500, unless they decommed the KH-55 or used them in some unknown war, Who knows what catagory they are counting when they say 37x. And what is a reasonable number of non-nuclear cruise missiles for a nation that has 6000 nuclear warheads? 3000 seems very low to me and I find it hard to believe that Russia was down to 80 cruise missiles at any point in the last 20 years.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:32 pm

    mnztr wrote:Ukraine sent 575 cruise missiles back to Russia. So even if they somehow had zero, then they had at least 500, unless they decommed the KH-55 or used them in some unknown war, Who knows what catagory they are counting when they say 37x. And what is a reasonable number of non-nuclear cruise missiles for a nation that has 6000 nuclear warheads? 3000 seems very low to me and I find it hard to believe that Russia was down to 80 cruise missiles at any point in the last 20 years.

    That was 30 years ago. All of them were for sure destroyed. They have limit date.

    They are deploying kh-101/102 for a long time now.

    Anyway what matters is the capacity to produce them in quantity when you need them.

    Stocking missiles is costly and dangerous. Of course they have a stock but there is no need to have 10 000 of them. I've seen somewhere that even US have just around 2000 tomahawks in service for more than 150 launch plateform with more than 50 cells each.

    Other countries have around 300-500 of Scalp/Storm shadow/Taurus.

    Russia has Iskanders, Kalibr, oniks, kh-101/102 and kh-59. And now they are producing Kinzhal. Buying 20-30 of each per year is enough.
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    Post  lyle6 Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:55 pm

    mnztr wrote:Ukraine sent 575 cruise missiles back to Russia. So even if they somehow had zero, then they had at least 500, unless they decommed the KH-55 or used them in some unknown war, Who knows what catagory they are counting when they say 37x. And what is a reasonable number of non-nuclear cruise missiles for a nation that has 6000 nuclear warheads? 3000 seems very low to me and I find it hard to believe that Russia was down to 80 cruise missiles at any point in the last 20 years.

    Kh-55s are nuclear only. Way too imprecise otherwise.
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:18 pm

    Scorpius wrote:
    George1 wrote:It notes that from 2012 to 2020, the number of cruise missiles in service with the Russian army increased 37 times. This type of weapons includes sea-based missiles "Caliber", air missiles X-101, and other similar types of weapons. Many of them are part of the strategic non-nuclear forces.

    https://en.topwar.ru/178434-rossijskij-arsenal-krylatyh-raket-bolshoj-dalnosti-vyros-v-desjatki-raz.html

    At the beginning of next year, we will conclude long-term contracts for the additional purchase of high-precision long-range missiles, which will double their number.
    Quote from the official report of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation on the results of 2020.

    So, after a couple of years, the x37 will have to double.

    I think this is an overlooked Russian response to NATzO's aggression.   Recall back in the 1980s NATO was all giddy because it thought its cruise
    missiles were a game changer against the USSR.   There were books written on the subject.   Somehow this aspect of cruise missiles faded away.
    But it makes sense for Russia to have the ability to launch saturation attacks using cruise missiles.   This is a strategic deterrent even if the
    missiles are not strategic nuclear warhead carriers.   It is like a super long range artillery barrage with deadly accuracy that will soften up any invading
    military alliance.  

    Syria was a good wake up call to NATzO planners who drank the koolaid where Russia did not have long range cruise missile ability.   A
    relic from the 1980s.

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:21 am

    USSR was less protected than Russia against cruise missiles.

    In Syria thry had state of the art radars to detect them and systems designed to hit such targets.

    USSR had only tor and S-300.

    With 100 good hits you can make lot of damages to a country (Main companies, HQ, political decapitation, oil reserves, main bridges, nuclear powerplants and dam...).
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    Russian Cruise Missiles Thread - Page 6 Empty Syria

    Post  calripson Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:33 am

    kvs wrote:
    Scorpius wrote:
    George1 wrote:It notes that from 2012 to 2020, the number of cruise missiles in service with the Russian army increased 37 times. This type of weapons includes sea-based missiles "Caliber", air missiles X-101, and other similar types of weapons. Many of them are part of the strategic non-nuclear forces.

    https://en.topwar.ru/178434-rossijskij-arsenal-krylatyh-raket-bolshoj-dalnosti-vyros-v-desjatki-raz.html

    At the beginning of next year, we will conclude long-term contracts for the additional purchase of high-precision long-range missiles, which will double their number.
    Quote from the official report of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation on the results of 2020.

    So, after a couple of years, the x37 will have to double.

    I think this is an overlooked Russian response to NATzO's aggression.   Recall back in the 1980s NATO was all giddy because it thought its cruise
    missiles were a game changer against the USSR.   There were books written on the subject.   Somehow this aspect of cruise missiles faded away.
    But it makes sense for Russia to have the ability to launch saturation attacks using cruise missiles.   This is a strategic deterrent even if the
    missiles are not strategic nuclear warhead carriers.   It is like a super long range artillery barrage with deadly accuracy that will soften up any invading
    military alliance.  

    Syria was a good wake up call to NATzO planners who drank the koolaid where Russia did not have long range cruise missile ability.   A


    As I mentioned, the use of Caspian Sea launched Caliber missiles was overkill. It was meant to send a clear message. Kind of like Truman dropping two atom bombs on Japan was a not to subtle message intended for Stalin.
    relic from the 1980s.
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    Post  GarryB Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:48 am

    USSR had only tor and S-300.

    To be fair they also had the PVO with Flankers and Foxhounds and Fulcrums...

    Even SA-8 proved effective against slow low flying cruise missiles...

    But it was the driving force behind their IADS and basically all their current missiles being modified to shoot down low flying cruise missiles... including MANPADS and ATGMs.

    The main difference now is the quality and depth of radar coverage they have to see small things coming.

    Obviously the INF treaty only changed things a little bit by getting rid of land based cruise missiles but not naval or air launched missiles...

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