Russian special military operation in Ukraine #53

ucmvulcan wrote:

ALAMO wrote:Give them a few hours, they need to find their arses now to blow some civilians in the area and show them as a target of this attack.

Guys be on the look out for a car bombing or some other sad terrorist attack in Moscow or Petersburg that will be hyped up as a game changer and sad tales of the Adveeka orphange, pug puppy vetenarian clinic and Ukrainian Military HQ being specifically targeted by the mean ole Russians.  Also, its about time for new reports of a coup in Moscow.  Untersturmbahnfuehrer Haushoffer, RTN, and MS Low Def are going to be interestingly detached from reality in the next few days.

silly me, I knew I should have placed my money on drone strike of navy assett that is a "game changer" and a "decisive victory" in a land war.   The bad news is Russia loses an old rust bucket, the good news is the battle line is not looking good at all for Ukraine.

It would be a minor test as it would lead to escalation, but I don't see the US pressing the nuclear button or sending in forces or launching air strikes because there is no way the American people would support such a step in response to some drones being shot down, but the Russian air force and fleet need to start knocking down those USAF drones. I mean what is the US going to do? A drone being downed doesn't provide the "they killed our boys" response. Its scrap metal, very expensive scrap metal, but scrap metal nonetheless. Actually, if Russia has the technology, Russia should see if it can use a drone of its own to do the job. Not sure how practicable it would be, or if the tech yet exists with enough range, but a Russian drone either knocking down or shooting down a US drone might get the US to reconsider this.

Remember that the US spent a lot of money getting in leadership here so that they would turn over Assange to them. The present guy is just a successor in that group.

Should Russia reward this new guy for sucking up to the US and helping Kiev murder Russians?

The ship was afloat for some time, they fought for its life, but the damage was very severe and it sank. The crew was completely saved.

So they lost an old landing ship but the crew were saved. Sounds like these sea surface drones are going to require the deployment of automatic cannon to vessels that don't have 30mm gatling guns as standard.

Perhaps 14.5mm HMG mounts should be deployed and perhaps helicopter escorts for ships.

In fact I would say a Ka-226 would be an ideal helicopter being small and light and could be fitted with a module that has wings with wing mounted cannon and perhaps a few rocket pods with belted cannon ammo inside the module plus extra fuel to allow it to operate near older ships and be able to intercept sea surface drones which would be rather vulnerable on their long trips to where they are being used.

Maybe tandem use with Ka-52Ks using their radar to detect these drones at extended ranges so they can be engaged before they get anywhere near their intended targets... and perhaps find where they are being launched from and destroy those locations/vessels.

However, having found out the details of the Ukrainian special operation, the French refused further “cooperation” and hurried to Kyiv to urgently leave Ukraine. This refusal cost them their lives.

Some of that good "you are either with us or you are with the terrorists" logic going on... how long before the Ukraine starts killing European officials that don't back more funding for Kiev as threats to Kiev...

At least this should finally convince MoD to buy new ships instead of using these toilet bowls 30 years past their expiration date

It is a landing ship and seemed to get holed and sink rather quickly... I rather suspect if they wanted to they could raise it and fix it easily enough... it is not like it has billions of dollars worth of modern electronics inside that will be ruined by salt water immersion like that Norway wegian frigate that sank doing burnouts with oil tankers.

New ships would sink just as well. They are like fish in a barrel, not much can be done against NATO ISR and Ukrainian USV. It’s NATO who is doing the hard work here.

A new ship would have a 30mm gatling mount with both radar and all weather EO sights that would allow it to easily engage multiple sea surface targets and likely remained safe.

Perhaps having a light helicopter with cannon based gun pods would have further improved protection for the ships as it would be able to deal with these sea surface drones much further out making the ship rather safer.

I am sure they will be taking this experience into account and adopting new tactics like deck mounted 14.5mm HMGs with thermal optics to deal with these threats...

And for new build ships adopting suitable weapons will also be a priority.

14mm machine guns with night sights should be added to boats close to the area of operations. And perhaps the addition of a rotary AK-630 30mm cannon to the larger ships that don't have them should be considered. Nets should be added to harbors.

Totally agree... and light helicopters with cannon pods. The Ka-226 or perhaps the attack version of the Ansat with 12.7mm machine guns and gun pods...

Some of what you mentioned were implemented, but the real problem is this

But it won't do like Iran. The great power is less bold against US drones than Iran.

Maybe Russia needs to arm and equip a Ukrainian splinter group the way HATO is arming and equipping Kiev.

It would mean this splinter group could do anything it pleases the way Kiev does, so attacking HATO drones would be something they could do.

One of the new large drones the Russians are making like Altius fitted with a couple of Verba missiles would be plenty...

The real problem is that Russia respects international law so what they need is an ISIS or CIA or Kiev or some other criminal organisation they can arm to do their dirty work.

Wagner is already designated a criminal group in the west... maybe a splinter faction of them could be given some drones and some missiles and allowed to do as they please.

Doesn't need to be Wagner, could be any such group.

Something more like raptor with an Optical ball turret with nice FCS and a simple 12.7mm gun or even smaller slaved to the FCS

They might use light armour to protect the HE payload so I would go for 14.5mm guns and maybe even a 57mm rocket pod being developed for new aircraft rocket pods.... use laser homing 57mm rockets... loft them up and have them dive on their targets...

IMO this is the only way because aviation won't be able to always cover the deployment point of such USV

They could adapt lighter helicopters for this sort of role though, the Ka-226 is modular and could have a cabin with wings attached for rocket pods and cannon with ammo feed into the cabin with extra fuel and lots of cannon shells for dealing with sea surface targets.

A bit of light armour and they could be used on anti piracy missions too, being rather cheaper than Hokum sized helicopters...

Not sure how practicable it would be, or if the tech yet exists with enough range, but a Russian drone either knocking down or shooting down a US drone might get the US to reconsider this.

Might be worth a try but personally I would think a quick note to the US that if they want to observe Russian weapons up close that their people in the Ukraine including in the US embassy can be given a front row seat if they persist...

The newer ships have thermal sights and night vision equipment. Probably better automated optical tracking as well.

That old ship had 57mm guns optimised for shooting at aircraft and threats on the ground, and machine guns.

Modern vessels have night and all weather optics and radar with 30mm cannon plus machine guns. (the latter can be effective, but the former just make it easy).

A modern vessel will still get attacked by drones but they tend to get shot up pretty quickly leading to the attack being called off.

Push NATO to shoot down a single Russian drone, then Russia can use this incident as justification to clear the Black Sea of any hostile drone giving targeting data to Ukrainian Terrorists.

Good idea.

Russia has been quick to adapt to most things, but it hasn't in this case.

The issue is that they can't defend everything, and given the choice between defending some old dry dock with a ship and a sub that will remain there for years and have zero impact on this conflict, or protecting Sevastopols main HQ for the Black Sea Fleet, it is pretty obvious why they have to target the dry dock and Bakeries and town squares despite much rather wanting to hit HQs and SAM bases and other relevant targets.

If Russia can jam a missile, surely it can jam a GAYTO drone?

The drones clearly have optics so jamming them might not be enough... they might use an AI programme to dodge and weave in to the target... in the same way a Maverick missile does not need input from the launch aircraft to hit the target it is locked onto.

Isn't there some way it can give a high pulse charge to the drone to fry its control mechanisms?

Well a 76mm or 100mm or 130mm EMP shell could probably take out a group of them at a time, but this old ship has an old 57mm gun mount.

All it really needed was a 30mm cannon... even the old AK-306 that fires at 1,000 rpm would do the job just fine.

I have been away because of health and work issues,

Hope your issues resolve themselves in a way that benefits you and your family...