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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #49

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    Post  Sprut-B Tue Oct 03, 2023 6:14 pm

    Airbornewolf wrote:VDV battling in ukrainian trenches at Kremenaya


    Why don't they consider using grenade launchers and gas masks before entering the trenches? Back in the good old days, troops had flamethrowers to clear out trenches, but now we have something even more practical like this bad boy 6G-30 grenade launcher.



    It's really strange to see that even the elite VDV isn't equipped with proper gear for trench warfare. The squad should have at least two grenade launchers, and instead of wearing GoPros, they should be wearing gas masks. Granted, that the enemies are likely already weakened by drone and artillery strikes, but it's still risky to engage the enemy so closely inside the trenches. Even with drone surveillance, there's a high risk factor in these Rambo-style close engagements within a trench line, as the enemy could easily hide in a corner, wait for you to approach, and unload their magazine on you. I've seen videos of Russian soldiers getting sprayed by bullets while trying to clear a trench. So, it would be in the best interest of Russian soldiers to blast all the hiding spots in the trenches with thermobaric grenades, use smoke grenades, and wear gas masks before jumping in to clear out any remaining enemies.

    I have read something similar about the Indian army engaging terrorists in Kashmir. In the past, the Indian army stationed in the mountainous Kashmir region suffered many casualties while searching for jihadists hiding in rock shelters or makeshift trench dugouts. Drones weren't always able to spot all the hidden terrorists, especially under dense foliage or in dugouts under rocks. So, there was always a risk of getting shot, even under drone surveillance. Unfortunately, soldiers didn't survive such encounters because the terrorists hidden in corners would often empty their magazines on the first soldier they saw. But, after adopting cylindrical-style grenade launchers on a large scale, army casualties have been drastically reduced. Even regular patrolling troops now carry such grenade launchers to counter any potential terrorist ambushes.

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    Post  Sprut-B Tue Oct 03, 2023 6:18 pm

    Razz

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    Post  nomadski Tue Oct 03, 2023 7:34 pm

    Sprut-B wrote:Why don't they consider using grenade launchers and gas masks before entering the trenches? Back in the good old days, troops had flamethrowers to clear out trenches, but now we have something even more practical like this bad boy 6G-30 grenade launcher .

    And why do troops survive heavy fire in trenches ? Because they are protected by Earth . Does protection  , trump  firepower ? But in physics , there are no immovable objects , only irresistible forces . ( that's why Tanks are by definition failing , as will trenches )And what happens if all the grenades , do not move the Earth , behind  which an Orc is  hiding ? Then you need an Earth mover ! But what if you do not have one ? Then you force the Orcs to get one , and you increase protection ! You become the Earth ! So my logic tells me , that unless you can dig up the trenches with firepower , then best to get ballistic shields , front , top and back . Save your Ammo , until an Orc , failing in his logic , and having an over-developed defence mechanism of anger , uses up all his Ammo ! Then you pop one up his assets !





    Tall full body shields .
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    Post  The-thing-next-door Tue Oct 03, 2023 7:49 pm

    Sprut-B wrote:but now we have something even more practical like this bad boy 6G-30 grenade launcher.

    The GM-94 is better, but lacks capacity, what would be ideal is something like the Chinese drum magazine fed, gas operated grenade launchers with thermobaric rounds. They would be excellent at both close and medium ranges.

    Then ofcourse there are always RPOs for trickier targets.
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    Post  JohninMK Tue Oct 03, 2023 7:51 pm

    GEROMAN -- time will tell - 👀 --
    @GeromanAT
    .
    3h
    "The Russian Aerospace Forces are currently preparing the industrial sector of Avdeevka for offensive operations by the Russian Armed Forces. This area is literally being razed to the ground. FAB1500 has landed there several times today. It is very likely that Russian forces will storm this area in the coming hours."
    -
    (Remy Lind TG)

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    Post  Arrow Tue Oct 03, 2023 8:23 pm

    https://t.me/yuzhny_front_ZOV/1467
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    Post  Regular Tue Oct 03, 2023 8:27 pm

    The-thing-next-door wrote:
    Sprut-B wrote:but now we have something even more practical like this bad boy 6G-30 grenade launcher.

    The GM-94 is better, but lacks capacity, what would be ideal is something like the Chinese drum magazine fed, gas operated grenade launchers with thermobaric rounds. They would be excellent at both close and medium ranges.

    Then ofcourse there are always RPOs for trickier targets.

    Is is better than why? Both are different and capable with loads of ammo types.

    It is more ergonomic and is used in urban environments.

    The reason why they are not carrying them in trench assaults is weight. And grenades do a good job. It's not CT operation, weight matters, speed matters. They choose RPO's as you mentioned and extra mags and grenades even tear grenades in some cases.

    then best to get ballistic shields , front , top and back . Save your Ammo , until an Orc , failing in his logic , and having an over-developed defence mechanism of anger , uses up all his Ammo ! Then you pop one up his assets !


    [/quote]

    ...

    You are aware that shields turn into cheese, both 5.45/7.62 and 5.56 just go through them? They are super heavy too. You can barely walk in trenches how tight they are sometimes and partly collapsed. And in Kremena there are branches everywhere, big ass branch lying that you could squeeze as a person would make you imposible to move. Not to mention choke points. Watch Ukrainian and Russian trench clearing videos and you will get the gist what is needed.
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    Post  mnztr Tue Oct 03, 2023 8:37 pm

    Sprut-B wrote:Razz


    Where is the *UCK!! NO!! button 🤣

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    Post  nomadski Tue Oct 03, 2023 8:57 pm

    Regular wrote:You are aware that shields turn into cheese, both 5.45/7.62 and 5.56 just go through them? They are super heavy too. You can barely walk in trenches how tight they are sometimes and partly collapsed. And in Kremena there are branches everywhere, big ass branch lying that you could squeeze as a person would make you imposible to move. Not to mention choke points. Watch Ukrainian and Russian trench clearing videos and you will get the gist what is needed.



    The rating NIJ IV is reserved for those bulletproof shield units that are capable of stopping armor piercing rifle rounds. This highest level of ballistics protection requires very dense material, and is generally incapable of being hand-held. These units are usually mounted on wheel bases and positioned so that both hands guide the unit from the backside.to


    NB : Mountings allow firing through shield , like Tanks . The shield can fold , to pass through the eye of a needle ! Tree branches ?? Twisted Evil

    Folding shield , can be mounted on single or double wheel , powered by electric drive . Use existing off-shelf units . Soldiers can afford to buy and modify themselves ! Call it trench Tank


    Last edited by nomadski on Tue Oct 03, 2023 9:33 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  Arrow Tue Oct 03, 2023 9:16 pm

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    Post  Regular Tue Oct 03, 2023 11:59 pm

    Interesting idea, but as this war showed -  KISS is the doctrine that has to be followed to the letter. From drones to guns. There is very smelly and effective solution how to clear trenches, but neither side wants to go back to WW1.

    For now, unfortunately, soldiers will be clearing trenches until something like droidekas with AK-74M will take over.

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    Post  nomadski Wed Oct 04, 2023 12:34 am





    Nothing simple about war . Impossible to keep simple . Most complicated venture in human society . Russia makes ROV right ? Has used these before . Alternative to sending troops , to send armoured machine armed with : machine shotgun , flame thrower , periscope , mine laying ......probably better than drone , since can carry more and is protected by the trench itself . How about a drone that lands and crawls into trench .......f****ing .......nightmare ! I am not going to sleep well tonight ! Bad karma ...Bad Karma affraid
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    Post  JohninMK Wed Oct 04, 2023 12:37 am


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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Wed Oct 04, 2023 4:23 am

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    Post  ALAMO Wed Oct 04, 2023 8:09 am

    Hole wrote:
    Western standards - almost all of them died in battle.
    Main reason why they died.

    How do you deal with a minefield?
    Bypass it.
    All 100 km wide?
    ...
    Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

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    Post  nomadski Wed Oct 04, 2023 9:40 am


    Use air dropped bombs or Arty to disperse and scatter or set-off all the mines along a path for troops to advance . Bombs can scatter soil , Rocks , Trees , Mines , Barbed wire ..........Alternatively drive old vehicles / turned ROV , over fields , until they blow up ! Follow the tracks .
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    Post  JohninMK Wed Oct 04, 2023 9:51 am

    I don't think she likes being in this kind of limelight. I suspect that she is much more comfortable living in her new life of luxury, away from the publicity. Or she has had it with him.

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    Post  ALAMO Wed Oct 04, 2023 10:24 am

    Overdosing the cocaine brought some impact on the Cocainsky potenc... potential, I mean. Laughing

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    Post  JohninMK Wed Oct 04, 2023 11:28 am

    A bit more on the bunker bust

    Zlatti71
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    🇷🇺 The Russian Armed Forces launched a strike with powerful high-precision ammunition at the command post of the OTG "Soledar" of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, located in the settlement. Alexandro-Kalinovo. The opening of this object and confirmation of its successful destruction was carried out using satellite images from space reconnaissance .

    🔻As a result of a precise strike, up to 50 militants and senior officers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were destroyed. According to available information, the wounded commanders were urgently taken to Rzeszow Airport (Poland) for further evacuation to foreign medical institutions.

    🔻At the moment, up to 30 militants continue to be under the rubble. The OTG Soledar control system has been disabled.

    🔻In August of this year, President of Ukraine Vladimir Zelensky visited this control point of the Soledar OTG.

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    Post  GarryB Wed Oct 04, 2023 12:00 pm


    Why don't they consider using grenade launchers and gas masks before entering the trenches? Back in the good old days, troops had flamethrowers to clear out trenches, but now we have something even more practical like this bad boy 6G-30 grenade launcher.

    40mm grenades explode but their fuse is not set until the reach a set distance to make the firer safe from the fragments . Inside a trench most of the time the grenades wont travel far enough for them to explode on impact which makes them rather useless, plus most of their grenade launchers hold about 5 grenades at any one time and take a few seconds to reload... not ideal in trench fighting.

    The GM-94 is better, but lacks capacity, what would be ideal is something like the Chinese drum magazine fed, gas operated grenade launchers with thermobaric rounds. They would be excellent at both close and medium ranges.

    RGN and RGO hand grenades are pretty compact and easy to throw for use in trenches... using a grenade launcher is a bit excessive when in a trench where the enemy is less than 30m away.

    Where is the *UCK!! NO!! button

    Just pay cash.

    NB : Mountings allow firing through shield , like Tanks . The shield can fold , to pass through the eye of a needle ! Tree branches ?? Twisted Evil

    Folding shield , can be mounted on single or double wheel , powered by electric drive . Use existing off-shelf units . Soldiers can afford to buy and modify themselves ! Call it trench Tank

    Just send in a robotic drone to check the trenches with troops close by ready to lob grenades into the trench the drone spots enemy in.

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    Post  Erk Wed Oct 04, 2023 12:05 pm

    ALAMO wrote:
    Hole wrote:
    Western standards - almost all of them died in battle.
    Main reason why they died.

    How do you deal with a minefield?
    ...

    Hovercraft?
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    Post  franco Wed Oct 04, 2023 12:12 pm

    Currently, approximately 500 servicemen of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation are captured by Ukrainian forces. This was stated by the head of the Donetsk People's Republic (DPR) Denis Pushilin on Soloviev Live.

    According to Pushilin, the Ukrainian military command does not provide information about citizens of the Russian Federation who are being held captive by the Ukrainian Armed Forces. Finding information about specific prisoners of war is very difficult.

    At the same time, the head of the DPR emphasized, thousands of Ukrainian military personnel are in Russian captivity. The number of Russian and Ukrainian prisoners of war is not comparable, Pushilin notes. As for the detention of captured military personnel of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, they are in penitentiary institutions throughout the Russian Federation.

    While Ukrainian military personnel are in captivity, the competent authorities are checking them for involvement in the commission of war crimes, for which criminal liability is provided. After all, many Ukrainian military personnel were involved in committing crimes against civilians and captured or wounded Russian soldiers and officers.

    There are already many examples when investigative authorities established the guilt of a particular Ukrainian prisoner of war in committing crimes, after which the court sentenced him to a long term of imprisonment to be served in institutions of the Russian penal system. For example, recently a former Ukrainian border guard was sentenced to 28 years in prison for committing the murder of a wounded Russian serviceman.

    https://topwar-ru.translate.goog/227353-glava-dnr-zajavil-chto-v-ukrainskom-plenu-nahodjatsja-okolo-500-rossijskih-voennosluzhaschih.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en

    Turkish media estimated the number of Ukrainian Armed Forces soldiers who surrendered. According to news agencies, during the entire period of the special military operation, up to 25 thousand Ukrainian military personnel preferred Russian captivity to death on the battlefield.

    The American Military Watch Magazine also spoke about one of the episodes of the capture of entire enemy units by soldiers of the Russian Armed Forces. The publication reports that servicemen of the 1st Guards Tank Army of the Russian Armed Forces captured two units of Ukrainian Armed Forces soldiers on October 2 in the Artemovsk area. It is noted that the number of Ukrainian military personnel willing to surrender is growing rapidly.

    The magazine emphasizes that this situation has developed due to the low training of Ukrainian soldiers, which often begins only upon arrival at the front line. Referring to the stories of American military personnel, the author of the publication reports that the life expectancy of Ukrainian Armed Forces soldiers on the front line is measured in a matter of hours. It is not surprising that many choose to surrender in order to survive.

    Ukrainian sources have already confirmed large losses in the ranks of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. The number of killed, missing and those who died in hospitals from severe wounds is approaching one million people.

    https://topcor-ru.translate.goog/39928-tureckie-smi-soobschajut-chto-v-rossijskij-plen-popalo-ne-menee-20-tysjach-ukrainskih-soldat.html?utm_source=topwar.ru&_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en

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    Post  Sprut-B Wed Oct 04, 2023 12:59 pm

    GarryB wrote:40mm grenades explode but their fuse is not set until the reach a set distance to make the firer safe from the fragments . Inside a trench most of the time the grenades wont travel far enough for them to explode on impact which makes them rather useless, plus most of their grenade launchers hold about 5 grenades at any one time and take a few seconds to reload... not ideal in trench fighting.

    They need to create new weapons and equipment for modern trench warfare in order to protect soldiers' lives. In the past, troops used gas masks, hand grenades, submachine guns, and flamethrowers for trench warfare. Nowadays, we have options like drone surveillance, small armed robots, special cameras for viewing corners, assault rifles, semi-automatic shotguns, advanced gas masks, protective frag suits (only used by the FSB), and grenade launchers (only thermobaric and smoke rounds are effective and safe in close quarters combat). However, the problem is that there is no standardized weapon system for modern trench warfare, despite the many options available. Since we now know that trench warfare is likely to continue for many centuries, it would be a better idea to develop new weapons and equipment specifically designed for this type of warfare.

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    Post  Sprut-B Wed Oct 04, 2023 1:05 pm

    Britton has been successfully demilitarized


    Britain has ‘run out of arms to send to Ukraine’.

    We’ve given away all we can afford and other countries should step in, says senior military chief.

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    Post  kvs Wed Oct 04, 2023 1:21 pm

    The bunker shown above was hidden under a residential area. The usual Ukr "freedom fighter" tactic of using civilians as shields.

    Will we hear wailing about ebil Rosshians bombing villagers from the NATzO MSM.

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