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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48

    Isos
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    Post  Isos Tue Sep 19, 2023 8:36 am

    Backman wrote:How is this wrong ? At some point the US will go too far. Then what ?

    Paul Craig Roberts


    Armenia, despite being a member of Russia’s Collective Security Treaty Organization, began last Monday joint military exercises with the United States that will conclude September 20.  


    This would appear to be Armenia’s finger in Russia’s eye.  Clearly, Big Bucks Washington bribed someone in Armenia. The Russians are yet to learn that Putin’s idealism exists nowhere else and that they must out-bribe the Americans.



    Let's see where that finger ends when azerbaijan attacks them again in october and US soldiers just go back home because EU need more azeri gas than armenian fingers.
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    Post  Arrow Tue Sep 19, 2023 8:54 am

    Bunestag deputy predicts that Germany will make a decision on supplying Taurus missiles to Ukraine in the coming days.

    Taurus is probably NATO's most advanced cruise missile?
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    Post  lancelot Tue Sep 19, 2023 9:07 am

    It is basically the same thing as the Storm Shadow/SCALP. Was even designed roughly in same period.
    I guess the Russians will have to upgrade the threat database on their air defenses yet again.

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    Post  Arrow Tue Sep 19, 2023 9:15 am


    I wonder if the USA will decide on AGM 158?

    https://lostarmour.info/news/udar-po-ukraine-19-09-2023-393
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    Post  higurashihougi Tue Sep 19, 2023 9:24 am

    A Western media outlet finally admit it... is that the signal of something ?

    https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/18/world/europe/ukraine-missile-kostiantynivka-market.html

    Evidence Suggests Ukrainian Missile Caused Market Tragedy

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    Post  thegopnik Tue Sep 19, 2023 10:10 am

    West maybe laughing at the kilo sub getting destroyed but in the end the last laugh goes to Russia since a program with trillion-dollar investment got compromised. They might as well start giving F-35s to Ukraine now.

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    Post  JohninMK Tue Sep 19, 2023 10:39 am

    [quote="thegopnik"]West maybe laughing at the kilo sub getting destroyed but in the end the last laugh goes to Russia since a program with trillion-dollar investment got compromised. They might as well start giving F-35s to Ukraine now.

    Think the pilot has a new nickname now 'Where isit' or 'Where's me plane' Laughing Laughing

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    Post  JohninMK Tue Sep 19, 2023 11:05 am

    A bit more on this

    Zlatti71
    @djuric_zlatko
    🇺🇦⚡A missile strike on the market in Konstantinovka on September 6 in the part of the DPR controlled by the Ukrainian Armed Forces was carried out by the Ukrainian side - The New York Times

    American journalists conducted their own investigation of the missile strike: they came to the conclusion that the Ukrainian Buk air defense system hit the city.

    📝 “Data compiled and analyzed by The New York Times, including missile fragments, satellite imagery, witness testimony and social media posts, strongly suggests that the catastrophic strike was the result of an off-course Ukrainian air defense missile fired from a Buk missile system. ", the material says.

    The authors of the article refer to recordings from surveillance cameras and eyewitness testimony: according to them, a few minutes before the explosion, they saw two rockets fired from the direction of Druzhkovka.

    Let us recall that in early September, when a rocket hit a busy city market in Konstantinovka, 17 people were killed and 32 injured.

    Zlatti71
    @djuric_zlatko
    🇺🇦 Ukrainian authorities tried to prevent NYT journalists from gaining access to the debris of the rocket that hit Konstantinovka

    Earlier, The New York Times found out that the attack in Konstantinovka was carried out by a Ukrainian Buk missile. And although this was already clear, American journalists decided to conduct an “investigation”, publishing its results right against the backdrop of Zelensky’s arrival in the United States.

    📰 The newspaper writes that after the tragedy, all Western media “immediately believed” and published Zelensky’s version, where he blames Russia for everything. At the same time, it was determined from the video from the scene that the rocket was launched from the direction of Druzhkovka, controlled by Kyiv.

    ❗ Journalists noted that they were not immediately allowed into the place of arrival. Kyiv tried to limit reporters' access, but in the end they were able to interview witnesses and personally examine the wreckage in order to present a version that somehow justified the Kiev regime.

    ✖ The attack was eventually called a “tragic accident,” saying it could have been a malfunction or damage during launch. As a result of this “accident” (or deliberate provocation), 17 people died, 32 were injured...

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48 - Page 39 F6X6N_2XMAAkaEo?format=jpg&name=small

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    Post  Firebird Tue Sep 19, 2023 11:50 am

    thegopnik wrote:West maybe laughing at the kilo sub getting destroyed but in the end the last laugh goes to Russia since a program with trillion-dollar investment got compromised. They might as well start giving F-35s to Ukraine now.


    Apparently they've set up a public hotline to try and find the jet. 🤣

    I've got pictures of Lesley Chow from The Hangover ringing up saying
    "I has your aeroplans white boy. I want 3 gazillion dollars or you can go suck my little Chinese nuts gayboys!"

    Anyway, hopefully Cuba has a deal with Russia.
    Or just Russia builds a mockup F35 and puts it in the main square Donetsk.

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    Post  JohninMK Tue Sep 19, 2023 12:15 pm

    They found the jet.

    Meanwhile back on topic, love the way they still fire using a bit of string Laughing

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    Post  JohninMK Tue Sep 19, 2023 12:19 pm

    I know you guys like a good fire Smile

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    Post  Arrow Tue Sep 19, 2023 12:36 pm

    Another Storm Shadow captured by Russian AD.


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    Post  ALAMO Tue Sep 19, 2023 12:41 pm

    Isos wrote:
    I would rather say build a new one by canibalizing parts of this one.

    2 years is the time needed to build a new one.

    One of the boats was built in +/- 14 months, in peace time.
    I guess they can go to a year, and make more than 2 at the same time.

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    Post  nomadski Tue Sep 19, 2023 12:57 pm

    From zero to one hundred , zero being a total defeat and one hundred being total victory for Russia , where do you all think Russia is now ? If Russia did nothing at all and allowed the Orcs to evict millions of Russians from their homes , as they said they would do , and advanced all along the border , and opened up with Artillery and Rockets , with their NATO buddies fighting , side by side , then this would be zero . And if Russia defeated the Orcs and removed them from power and established protection for all Russian speaking regions , with NATO pushed back firmly inside it's own territory , then this would be one hundred .

    Then the result now is perhaps fifty fifty . Some territory secured , some borders safe with advances , some still under fire on occasion or with incursion . Some Russians under protection , yet some still living under Orc rule . Some NATO forces inside Ukraine , and some outside . The question is , has Russia reached the maximum possible achievable goals by military operation ? And if so , then what to do for longer term solution ?

    I think it has , or will soon reach the maximum achievable results by military action . Then , the Russian population remaining in Ukraine , are unlikely to have a bright future . Many may choose to leave or go to Russia . Also the Orcs will remain in power , with NATO membership and Nukes on their soil . I think that Russia being a vast country , can use and accommodate these refugees . And I also think that Russia can compensate for Nukes based in Ukraine , by putting own Nukes closer to Europe or America , for a deterrence . Overall , it is a better result , than not doing anything at all  !

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    Post  Godric Tue Sep 19, 2023 3:07 pm

    JohninMK wrote:I know you guys like a good fire Smile


    let the entire city burn and everyone in it, that way the bassas will never be able to demand "kill the Moskals" with all the students jumping and dancing chanting "kill the Moskals" just after Maidan

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    Post  flamming_python Tue Sep 19, 2023 3:14 pm

    nomadski wrote:From zero to one hundred , zero being a total defeat and one hundred being total victory for Russia , where do you all think Russia is now ? If Russia did nothing at all and allowed the Orcs to evict millions of Russians from their homes , as they said they would do , and advanced all along the border , and opened up with Artillery and Rockets , with their NATO buddies fighting , side by side , then this would be zero . And if Russia defeated the Orcs and removed them from power and established protection for all Russian speaking regions , with NATO pushed back firmly inside it's own territory , then this would be one hundred .

    Then the result now is perhaps fifty fifty . Some territory secured , some borders safe with advances , some still under fire on occasion or with incursion . Some Russians under protection , yet some still living under Orc rule . Some NATO forces inside Ukraine , and some outside . The question is , has Russia reached the maximum possible achievable goals by military operation ? And if so , then what to do for longer term solution ?

    I think it has , or will soon reach the maximum achievable results by military action . Then , the Russian population remaining in Ukraine , are unlikely to have a bright future . Many may choose to leave or go to Russia . Also the Orcs will remain in power , with NATO membership and Nukes on their soil . I think that Russia being a vast country , can use and accommodate these refugees . And I also think that Russia can compensate for Nukes based in Ukraine , by putting own Nukes closer to Europe or America , for a deterrence . Overall , it is a better result , than not doing anything at all  !

    The war is still ongoing, but the result will be one hundred. Total victory and nothing but.

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    Post  GarryB Tue Sep 19, 2023 3:56 pm

    The good news is that most of the European countries are busy showing middle finger to the demands of catching & repatriating poor Ukro passported cannon fodder.
    And if you ask me, this is another example of how the things differ from the official shitstream narrative.
    Nobody will send the Ukrainians, because most of them are hard-working for local economies.

    Which raises the problem of Kievs hit squads who even Kiev admit are out of control... what if they start taking out EU politicians that are not supporting Kiev enough or hard line anti Russian enough... how will the EU take that I wonder...

    Cruise missiles and kamikaze drones hit storage facilities for British Storm Shadow missiles, depleted uranium munitions and also a radio intelligence and training center for sabotage groups of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

    So those demanding everything being hit immediately ignore this sort of thing where not hitting targets and just watching to see what is stored where means when you want to you can find the places the enemy are storing Storm Shadow missiles and destroy them in a group.

    Took them months to relocate. More pathetic than anything else.

    They probably went through all their options and burning more fuel and putting more hours on these aircraft probably made more sense than beefing up the airfields closer to the Ukraine... and I would say these aircraft have fairly low hours on them so a bit of operational use and a few hours in the air should not be a problem.

    Even having moved their aircraft they will still need to think about defences against a variety of threats anyway.

    And it's still to close to nato from where they can infiltrate drones and operators.

    If HATO had the balls to attack directly nuclear armed Iskander missiles would be the response... always answer stupid with dumb.

    It is the only language the stupid understand.

    What if NATO hosts Ukrainian UAVs on Finnish soil to launch attacks on Russia's north to test how Russia will react when another red line is crossed? I hope Russia don't hold back this time and sterilize both Finland and the Baltics to make way for its future Russian inhabitants.

    If HATO wants to play such games Russian drones can head towards HATO targets too...

    People at Bankova are not particularly happy that the Russians did not fall for the prepared trap. This would be an excellent case before the UN General Assembly.

    If Russia had fallen for that trap then Kiev would say if Russia hits commercial privately owned ships going to Ukrainian ports then Kiev can attack commercial ships going through the Black Sea to Russian ports.


    It is a war. Ukraine govt buildings are legit targets. But no. They convene an emergency natl security council meeting at the Kremlin and decide to do nothing.

    Do you suggest they list their responses and show a timetable or schedule for their responses over the next few days and weeks?

    This would appear to be Armenia’s finger in Russia’s eye. Clearly, Big Bucks Washington bribed someone in Armenia. The Russians are yet to learn that Putin’s idealism exists nowhere else and that they must out-bribe the Americans.

    If they want to **** with Russia and with the US to get the furs and jewelry and the inner city apartment they will find Russia will lose interest... if Armenia wants the US to counter Turkey and Azerbaijan for them instead of Russia then that is fine. Armenia is in an awkward location for Russia surrounded by unfriendly states and hostile places... if Armenia wants Russia to go away I am sure they will be happy to oblige and let the US sort out their problems.

    Armenia can only lose with that sort of game.

    America does not give a shit about them other than they are close to Iran and to Russia and they would like to have bases there.

    And instead of warning the weak, essentially militarily irrelevant EU countries, the Kremlin warns its own citizens.

    No point bullying EU countries to be nicer to Russia... makes more sense for Russians to realise the EU and the west hates them and the sooner they cut ties completely the better for Russia and Russians. If you want to go to these countries expect all your stuff stolen and to be put in jail for some reason or another... enjoy your trip idiot.

    It is not Russias job to make EU countries like Russia... let them hate... Russia clearly does not need Europe and should look elsewhere for trade and good relations.

    The persona of irresoluteness, indecision, inability to act that the Kremlin broadcasts to the world encourages Washington to ever more provocations that will eventually go too far.

    Amazing... so it is not Americas fault... the Russians are to blame... but why would the Kremlin care about escalations from Washington... their clumsy actions and silly outbursts and abuse of power in international organisations is what is breaking the US grip on the entire planet and causing most of the rest of the world to realise what an unreasonable colonial monster the west really is.

    Never interrupt your enemy when they are making a mistake.

    After Ukraine is liberated and all its inhabitants are exterminated, Finland and the Baltics will have be next on the extermination list.

    When the nazis are gone from power in Kiev and the actual people get a real vote for someone that is not a stooge for the west they will get to pick from a few choices... none of which will include EU or HATO membership... once that is settled there is no need to bother with Finland or the Baltic states.... any Russians in those regions not happy with being second class citizens can be offered work and houses in Russia... even the pensioners... and then Russia can essentially close their borders to these regions except the path to Kaliningrad but I suspect they will be stupid enough to try to close that... Russia can deal with that as they please but I personally think what they should do is boost ship access to the region so road and rail access becomes superfluous.

    Russia does not need to rebuild Finland or the Baltic states... they should just put up a few layers of walls and close the border crossings completely.

    @garryb the 600mm 500km range KN-25 you mentioned isn't what they use instead of iskander it's a direct copy of HIMARS look at the system and look at HIMARS it's 99% identical.

    Not sure you understand the concept of identical or the concept of 99% because HIMARS is a 227mm calibre rocket that maybe reaches 80km and you use the words 99% and identical to a system you describe as 600mm calibre, so twice the calibre of Smerch, and 500km range.

    Which of course is not impossible because it doesn't manouver like Iskander does and does not have a working rocket motor for its entire flight... but you call it their HIMARS... so it is comparable to Uragan at 220mm?

    Now that the INF treaty is toast I think Russia needs to reinstate the mobile GLCM. Not just Iskander-K/9M728 but the full range Kalibre.

    Now the INF treaty is gone how about a 4-5 ton scramjet powered missile with a range of 5-6,000km or more...

    Everybody knows that Russian reponse would be exactly the same as it has been on the gazillions of red lines already crossed by NATO since February of last year.

    Members like yourself keep whining that nothing is done, and I agree, nothing is done immediately... but after what has happened has been fully analysed and they work out what Kiev did and how they normally target those responsible which goes barely reported as attacks on HQs and fuel dumps and ammo storage sites.

    They have already mentioned Storm shadow stores being hit and I would suspect a few other targets will also have been attacked... but some members want nuclear war.

    The west is fucked up and some just want it all to end... well do it yourself... Russia isn't the world policeman like the west claims to be so no blue suicide from them.

    I would rather say build a new one by canibalizing parts of this one.

    2 years is the time needed to build a new one.

    Where was it going to be used when its upgrade was complete and how long was that going to be.

    If the damage is significant then scrap it. If it is superficial then fix it up. Not really a big deal to be honest.

    Being one Kilo class sub short in a couple of years time when it would have been put back into the water is not the end of the world and has no bearing on this conflict at all.


    Let's see where that finger ends when azerbaijan attacks them again in october and US soldiers just go back home because EU need more azeri gas than armenian fingers.

    Russia just needs to be clear to the whole country and the region of Nagorno Karabakh... if they want to suck up to the US and be a western bitch and I suspect much or it probably comes from the women watching that stupid Kardashian programme, then that is their choice and Russia will respect that... they can leave all the agreements and organisations with Russia and be hard core anti Russian... Russia has better things to do with their soldiers than piss around protecting people this stupid and selfish.

    📰 The newspaper writes that after the tragedy, all Western media “immediately believed” and published Zelensky’s version, where he blames Russia for everything. At the same time, it was determined from the video from the scene that the rocket was launched from the direction of Druzhkovka, controlled by Kyiv.

    Would they like to review the evidence of a certain Malaysian airliner shot down over Ukraine perhaps....

    Meanwhile back on topic, love the way they still fire using a bit of string

    Bro, that is a Tulip... a 240mm mortar firing 130kg HE bombs.... if you had a bit of string that allowed you to fire it from 3m further away I would suggest you would take that when you could. Airplugs to very little with such shock waves going straight through you with each shot. Ear plugs and ear muffs and you still feel it through your bones when you fire.

    I know you guys like a good fire

    Like pissing into the crater of an active volcano....

    From zero to one hundred , zero being a total defeat and one hundred being total victory for Russia , where do you all think Russia is now ?

    So you are after opinions? What value would that have? How patriotic or anti nazi a person is? How optimistic or pessimistic they are?

    I reckon you could probably guess already to be honest.

    I think the nazi nutters are tough and stubborn... they can't afford to lose and surrender and peace does not really work for them and they are not going to win.

    Russia is equally determined not to lose, while the west claims they can't afford to lose it... I bet right up until they left Afghanistan they would have said they were fighting for democracy so they can't afford to lose... what would happen to the world if they lost for democracy, but of course they never fight for democracy.

    They fold and will run away leaving a mess and claiming they did everything they could and Kiev was not tough enough and couldn't do the HATO think properly which is why they lost... which I am sure would piss off a lot of Ukrainians... but most of them are nazis so that is probably a good thing.

    Looking at what they did in Afghanistan they will evacuate some top officials if they can and leave the rest to the dogs... or in this case justice...

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    Post  Dr.Snufflebug Tue Sep 19, 2023 4:21 pm

    Not gonna pretend I am some well read up history nerd with a lot of theoretical "wisdom" under my belt, but isn't it rather typical that big countries like Russia move with a lot of inertia, and seem slow to adapt to rapidly changing circumstances at first, until they sort out an overall formula that works and then start steaming unstoppably to victory after a while?

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    Post  owais.usmani Tue Sep 19, 2023 4:27 pm

    ALAMO wrote:
    Kilo looks way worse than Ropucha. It's dead meat.

    When it was initially reported I thought its the Alrosa they have hit, but it turned out to be the improved 636 of the Black Sea fleet the Rostov-on-Don.

    Over 70 Kilo subs of various modifications have been built so far, and if I am not mistaken Rostov-on-Don now holds the record of being the shortest lived Kilo sub:
    Laid down: 21 Nov 2011
    Commissioned: 30 Dec 2014
    Blown to smithereens: 12 Sep 2023

    And why was it in dry dock in Sevastopol, of all places? Why not in Kerch, or maybe Novorossiysk? or maybe Nizhny Novgorod? or even in Saint Petersburg in the yard it was manufactured? Why in Sevastopol which is closest to hostile territory of all these places and hence easiest to target?

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Good thing is that Russian Navy's reputation and credibility is already in the shitter so this won't have any meaningful effect on overall morale

    Order a new one and tell the Navy to STFU as it gets built

    The improved Kilos have taken a minimum of 2 years from being laid down to being commissioned. If the lay down a replacement sub tomorrow, they will be getting it at end of 2025 at the earliest. Till then they would have to work with the remaining 5 improved Kilos in the BSF. Lets hope these 5 do not get further reduced in the coming weeks and months.
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    Post  lyle6 Tue Sep 19, 2023 4:32 pm

    Dr.Snufflebug wrote:Not gonna pretend I am some well read up history nerd with a lot of theoretical "wisdom" under my belt, but isn't it rather typical that big countries like Russia move with a lot of inertia, and seem slow to adapt to rapidly changing circumstances at first, until they sort out an overall formula that works and then start steaming unstoppably to victory after a while?
    Survival bias. Big countries don't stay big if they have a glass jaw.

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    Post  JohninMK Tue Sep 19, 2023 4:40 pm

    Russian Defence Ministry report on the progress of the special military operation (19 September 2023)

    ▫ In the Donetsk direction, units of the Yug Group of Forces, in close co-operation with aviation and artillery, repelled 2 attacks by AFU assault groups near Mayorsk and Kamenka (DPR).

    The enemy's casualties were more than 225 servicemen killed or injured, 2 AFVs, and 3 motor vehicles.

    In counter-battery warfare, the Russian troops hit a Polish-made Krab self-propelled artillery system, 2 U.S.-made M777 artillery systems, and 1 Gvozdika self-propelled howitzer.

    ▫ In Zaporozhye direction, units of the Russian Group of Forces supported by helicopters, artillery, and heavy flamethrower systems repelled an attack by the AFU 71st Jaeger Brigade close to Verbovoye (Zaporozhye).

    Clusters of AFU manpower and hardware were engaged close to Charivnoye, Belogorye, and Novodanilovka (Zaporozhye).

    Over 175 servicemen, 2 AFVs, and 2 motor vehicles have been eliminated in this direction during the day.

    In counter-battery warfare, the Russian troops hit 2 Polish-made Krab self-propelled artillery systems, 1 U.S.-made M777 artillery system, 1 Akatsiya self-propelled howitzer, 2 D-30 howitzers, as well as 1 Msta-B and 1 D-20 guns.

    ▫ In Krasny Liman direction, well-coordinated actions of the Tsentr Group of Forces, strikes by Army Aviation and artillery fire repelled 3 attacks by assault groups of the 63rd and 67th mechanised brigades of the AFU near Torskoye (DPR) and south of Chervonaya Dibrova (LPR).

    Up to 65 servicemen, 2 AFVs, 2 pick-up trucks, and 1 D-20 howitzer were neutralised.

    ▫ In South Donetsk direction, units of the Vostok Group of Forces repelled one AFU attack close to Staromayorskoye (DPR).

    In addition, air strikes and artillery fire struck the personnel and hardware of the 110th Territorial Defence Brigade near Priyutnoye (Zaporozhye region).

    Over 115 servicemen, 3 AFVs, 5 motor vehicles, and 1 Msta-B howitzer were destroyed.

    ▫ In Kupyansk direction, aviation and artillery of the Zapad Group of Forces inflicted fire damage on manpower and hardware of the AFU close to Tabayevka, Cherneshchina (Kharkov), and Stelmakhovka (LPR).

    Up to 20 servicemen and 2 motor vehicles have been neutralised. In counter-battery warfare, Russian troops struck AFU's D-20 and D-30 howitzers.

    ◽ In Kherson direction, up to 25 servicemen, 2 motor vehicles, and 2 U.S.-made M777 artillery systems have been eliminated during the day.

    ▫ Operational-Tactical and Army aviation, Missile Troops and Artillery of the Russian Group of Forces have engaged AFU manpower and hardware in 127 areas during the day.

    ▫ 2 ammunition depots of the AFU's 57th Motorised Infantry and 35th Marine brigades were hit near Slavyansk and Bogatyr (DPR).

    3 command posts of the 67th, 100th, and 109th Territorial Defence brigades were hit in the areas of Serebryanka, Grigorovka, and Aleksandropol (DPR).

    Russian air defence facilities have shot down one Su-25 airplane of Ukrainian Air Force near Novopokrovka (Zaporozhye).

    In addition, 16 HIMARS and one Uragan projectiles have been intercepted during the day.

    38 UAVs were shot down near Novovodyanoye, Zolotarevka (LPR), Berestovoye, Aleksandrovka, Yevgenovka (DPR), Novomikhailovka (Zaporozhye) and Kairy (Kherson).

    Russian Defence Ministry

    @Slavyangrad
    3:32 PM · Sep 19, 2023
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    Mir
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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48 - Page 39 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48

    Post  Mir Tue Sep 19, 2023 4:52 pm

    ALAMO wrote:
    Isos wrote:
    I would rather say build a new one by canibalizing parts of this one.

    2 years is the time needed to build a new one.

    One of the boats was built in +/- 14 months, in peace time.
    I guess they can go to a year, and make more than 2 at the same time.

    I think it's safe to say it will fail a hydro pressure test Laughing

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    Post  ucmvulcan Tue Sep 19, 2023 4:57 pm

    nomadski wrote:From zero to one hundred , zero being a total defeat and one hundred being total victory for Russia , where do you all think Russia is now ? If Russia did nothing at all and allowed the Orcs to evict millions of Russians from their homes , as they said they would do , and advanced all along the border , and opened up with Artillery and Rockets , with their NATO buddies fighting , side by side , then this would be zero . And if Russia defeated the Orcs and removed them from power and established protection for all Russian speaking regions , with NATO pushed back firmly inside it's own territory , then this would be one hundred .

    Then the result now is perhaps fifty fifty . Some territory secured , some borders safe with advances , some still under fire on occasion or with incursion . Some Russians under protection , yet some still living under Orc rule . Some NATO forces inside Ukraine , and some outside . The question is , has Russia reached the maximum possible achievable goals by military operation ? And if so , then what to do for longer term solution ?

    I think it has , or will soon reach the maximum achievable results by military action . Then , the Russian population remaining in Ukraine , are unlikely to have a bright future . Many may choose to leave or go to Russia . Also the Orcs will remain in power , with NATO membership and Nukes on their soil . I think that Russia being a vast country , can use and accommodate these refugees . And I also think that Russia can compensate for Nukes based in Ukraine , by putting own Nukes closer to Europe or America , for a deterrence . Overall , it is a better result , than not doing anything at all  !

    In terms of American gridiron football, its late in the first quarter. Russia is up 10-6. Looks like a competitive game so far, but its still way too damn early to determine who wins this from a score position, but if you look at stats, its clear that the Russians are dominating this game but the game has not been going long enough for the scoreboard to reflect how lopsided this game is.
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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48 - Page 39 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48

    Post  Mir Tue Sep 19, 2023 5:22 pm

    ucmvulcan wrote:
    In terms of American gridiron football, its late in the first quarter.  Russia is up 10-6.  Looks like a competitive game so far, but its still way too damn early to determine who wins this from a score position, but if you look at stats, its clear that the Russians are dominating this game but the game has not been going long enough for the scoreboard to reflect how lopsided this game is.

    I know very little about gridiron but it is somewhat similar to rugby but as far as the scoreline goes I think you are far too pessimistic about the scoreline when it comes to the Russians. The Ukies had a few lucky breaks so far but the Ruskies are clearly dominating every aspect of the game and is set to win this thing hands down. Current scoreline 24/7 for the Ruskies. russia cheers

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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48 - Page 39 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48

    Post  Belisarius Tue Sep 19, 2023 5:35 pm

    🛸 Lancet hit a Ukrainian mig-29 at Krivoy Rog airfield.

    📍47.9021719, 33.5212766

    🧐 The airport is around 66 km far.

    🤷‍� Not sure if the Aircraft is operational.
    https://t.me/VampireSix/629

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