Wagner Chief Y.Prigozhin killed in plane crash

kvs wrote:There is no reason to "take him out" in this fashion.   If he violated his "parole" agreement, then arrest him and take him before a judge.   He
did not have the sort of power like in some banana republic where he could not be arrested and prosecuted.  

He made loads of enemies among Russian military. VKS wanted him dead due to killing of pilots and they are very tighly knitt community for example. I wouldn’t suspect Putin in this case. Prigos inner circle could have been shaky as well.

That does not justify vigilante action involving death of unrelated 3rd parties. If Putin and the Russian government are serious about rule
of law, then (if this was indeed such a crime) the people involved should be found and prosecuted for murder. I doubt that discipline is
so lax in the Russian military that such vigilante action is possible. If it was this bad, then there would be severe degradation of the performance
on the front and all the Ukr-NATzO propaganda about the Russian army would have some weight.

This is most likely a NATzO-organized Ukr hit like the one on Daria Dugina. NATzO is crapping its pants over its looming ejection from Africa.
The Russian government had no reason to stage this attack after it obviously restored Prigozhin's freedom of action.

kvs wrote:There is no reason to "take him out" in this fashion. If he violated his "parole" agreement, then arrest him and take him before a judge. He
did not have the sort of power like in some banana republic where he could not be arrested and prosecuted.

As you probably realize yourself, putting "parole" in quotation marks, it wasn't a normal parole agreement. This is because a normal agreement was not possible as it would have necessitated arresting him when tensions were high. It was rather an informal agreement that he obviously broke, flying all around Russia like nothing happened. So the only way to do this the normal way would be to arrest him now, 2 months after the fact and charge him for treason or mutiny or whatever (not for violating a parole condition, because that condition doesn't exist on paper, just as words), but that would damage Putin and the government in general, because it would have made them bare-headed liars. So it's actually because Russia isn't a banana republic that they can't just arrest him for violating informal agreements.

There is, however, also the interesting fact about the flight anomalies several minutes before the plane started to tumble down...so let's wait for further info that may come out of the investigation...things may yet get even more interesting.

As for Prigo's "restored freedom of action": I agree with Ritter here that this wasn't actually the plan. It made Putin look weak, as the condition was publicly stated: Prigo is going to Belarus into exile. So more likely, IMO, is that Prigo again acted very inappropriately, as he liked to do, and just ignored the agreement. I also agree with Martyanov that Wagner's leadership was not as brilliant as some people were touting and that they needlessly got too many people killed in Artyomovsk; furthermore, nothing right now indicates that Wagner's activities in Africa are being shut down. There will simply be a new leader of the group; one without ridiculously emotional outbursts and erratic behavioral patterns preferably. One who can be trusted.

kvs wrote:There is no reason to "take him out" in this fashion.   If he violated his "parole" agreement, then arrest him and take him before a judge.   He
did not have the sort of power like in some banana republic where he could not be arrested and prosecuted.  

He and his dogs have been working for the enemy, tried to collapse their own country from the inside and murdered Russian pilots

That is no arrest and prosecution for that, only execution

And there was never any "parole" since no courts or legal entities were involved in any step of that whole misbegotten "process"

All 25 000 of them should have been exterminated on that highway to Moscow and hosed off into the sewers

Fact that this "deal" charade lasted this long to begin with is a travesty already, good to know that they are finally clearing house

Begome wrote:...
He also says that he has met with Wagner commanders and they're patriots and that many didn't support the coup attempt and that Wagner will continue under different leadership and still act in the interests of the Russian Federation.

Patriots who still followed orders to attempt a coup?

More like spineless ass-coverers running scared now when the hammer is finally falling

Did they somehow fail to notice that they were driving North towards Moscow that day? Did they fail to spot masses of people around? Did they all suddenly decide to turn off their phones?

Prigozin and his council of traitors are just the beginning, there's a lot of these rats left that need to be processed into pine tree fertilizer

kvs wrote:That does not justify vigilante action involving death of unrelated 3rd parties.   If Putin and the Russian government are serious about rule
of law, then (if this was indeed such a crime) the people involved should be found and prosecuted for murder...

People involved in the murder of Russian pilots definitely should have been persecuted for murder

Instead someone made deal with them and tried to let them off the hook

But it looks like VKS doesn't do deals so good riddance to bad trash, hopefully this is just the beginning of the clean up

Any Wagner scum out there who knows what's good for them should ask for immediate transfer to Africa because VKS doesn't fly there (yet)

kvs wrote:The Russian government had no reason to stage this attack after it obviously restored Prigozhin's freedom of action.    

They did but they probably didn't have the balls

Fortunately for Russia VKS has plenty

There is no evidence of tens of thousands of Wagner mercenaries participating in the mutiny...it was a few thousand and apparently not all of the command was on board with it.

Nevertheless, if some Wagner members now start making threats again, they should obviously also be brought to justice. Same with any of those who cowardly killed Russians during the mutiny and are still alive. If the Wagnerites want to prove that they are honorable why don't they get out their sledge hammer and remove the vermin among their ranks.

Edit just to clarify: I'm not saying it would be morally justified, but they're the ones waving a sledge hammer around, having a skull on their main logo and saying they're "the best in Hell"...either they shouldn't choose this kind of Rambo-image for their organization or at least be consistent and execute traitors in their own ranks.

I agree with Alex, I don’t think anyone in Russia had anything to do with this. There was no need for Russia to do this.

There is the BRICS summit, Russia is winning in Ukraine, Russia is winning the economic war and Russia is slowly turning away from the “collective west”, so no need for Russia to do this.

PapaDragon wrote:
Rogue mercenaries don't get trials

And he was left alive way longer than it would have been appropriate

Onda je to klasična hajdučija. Zemlja ima nekoliko hiljada nuklearnih bojevih glava, a oni su obračunavaju između sebe ko ciganske bande. Jebeš ti to.

caveat emptor wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:
Rogue mercenaries don't get trials

And he was left alive way longer than it would have been appropriate

Onda je to klasična hajdučija. Zemlja ima nekoliko hiljada nuklearnih bojevih glava, a oni su obračunavaju između sebe ko ciganske bande. Jebeš ti to.

Njihov problem, ne moj

Ako nisu hteli hajdučiju trebali su da ih pohapse na vreme i pravac zatvor bez rasprave

Posto to nisu obavili kad je trebalo onda hajdučija

Sami pali, sami se ubili

Slažem se. Ovako ko Beograd 90-ih. Mala bara, puna krokodila.

sepheronx wrote:

If you pay attention to the conversation between him and Flaming Python, you will see that Arkh is a sixth columnist.  Claims to be a patriot but pushes all kinds of stupid comments that isn't reality, and is a coward and wants other people to do the fighting for him as he claims he will attempt to flight from any kind of mobilization.  These are the kind of people that are as dangerous as 5th columnists in any country.  Maybe worst as he hides behind the venire of being a "patriot".

You have no business talking about me , or Russia

You and half the fags on here have no fucking business talking about it

Are you gonna fight? Are you doing fuckall except watching this online?

No? So STFU

Prigozhin is a hero, and you? You do fuckall like everyone else on here

So if you gonna talk about bullshit, pickup a rifle and come join dude, the contract is open to all of you

But you'd rather be comfortable and talk shit from the safety of you home

So again - STFU

https://ezdubs-vod-api.com/result/1694743251784204691_ru_en

Utkin most likely gave the order to shoot the IL plane down

VKS probably wanted to get them both in the same place

Shoigu couldn't have been happy with the deal either.

.

Isos wrote:It's quite surprising that after one and half year they never tried to go after Zelensky and its top command staff but they kill Prigo.

Some talk about the coup but there was neher a coup since he never planned to remove Putin, his problem was the MoD which frankly had so-so results so far, Wagner did the hardest part in Ukraine.

Meanwhile there is a war with Ukraine and the most obvious move, killing enemy leaders, was never made.

Its killing was just to show others how they will end if they try something. Prigo didn't deserve such end. Letting him run Wagner in Africa was OK.

If you are saying the Russian government did this than, I don't believe they were involved. Prigozhin could have been very good to expand Russian influence in Africa. This is a loss for Russia, Africa might be lost.

Zlatti71
@djuric_zlatko
The last "Valkyrie Flight" - what future awaits the Priogozhin Empire

Last night, many people on both sides of the ocean breathed a sigh of relief, while some even opened champagne. Others sincerely mourned and refused to believe what had happened. The death of Yevgeny Priogozhin had been a predictable and anticipated event - he was a desired target for intelligence agencies around the world and had many personal enemies. He constantly tested fate, even in situations where it seemed unnecessary for someone of his status: he performed stand-up comedy routines under fire, ventured into red zones, personally negotiated with representatives of the darkest organizations and structures, where he might not have returned alive.

Nevertheless, security measures around the businessman and the head of the Wagner Private Military Company were always exemplary. At first, it was hard to believe what had happened, and people wanted to see it as another Priogozhin media maneuver, just as it happened in Popasna when he used himself as bait to provoke an attack on the former Wagner headquarters to "capture" a Himars rocket for study.

The exact sequence of events will be determined by the investigation, but for now, it is known that Priogozhin's fatal flight marked the end of a series of movements after his highly successful week-long mission in Africa, during which he and his team visited several countries, held negotiations, and were quite optimistic.

However, he always maintained irony, believing he could recover from any fall. The truly challenging moment for Priogozhin was the tragedy in Khsham on February 8, 2018 - it was sudden and paralyzing. But action was necessary: "First, evacuate the three hundred, second, bury the two hundred, and then it somehow went on its own, it became clear that life goes on," Priogozhin himself recounted.

Even the loss of all assets and his own death did not elicit regret from the head of the Wagner PMC. He once told a story from Libya when he and commanders were driving through the desert, got lost, and stumbled upon a military jeep stuck in the sand with several skeletons inside, one of them still gripping the steering wheel. The hot wind blew, scattering scraps of fabric. Priogozhin was delighted by the scene - he considered such a death ideal: at high speed, in a military vehicle, in the middle of the endless desert, perhaps after a "Bayraktar" strike, for example.

He came up with the phrase about the "best in hell" himself and despised it when someone sought something good in him - he wanted to appear as infernal as possible and saw himself as a manifestation of pure evil. Although Priogozhin admitted that in his cynicism and military cunning, he was far from the commander of the Wagner PMC, Dmitry Utkin.

In anticipation of his own demise, which Priogozhin was firmly convinced of, he had long prepared a plan of action for both his military and business and political assets. He parted ways with his wife a couple of years ago, although he maintained normal relations with her, and Pavel Priogozhin was supposed to take over his father's affairs.

As for the "musicians," Dmitry Utkin was supposed to lead them. There was also a "plan C," which played out in reality - the Wagner PMC leader also perished. In this case, power was to pass to the council of Wagner PMC commanders under the leadership of Anton Elizarov, known as "Lotos." According to some reports, he is currently in Africa. Perhaps this explains the long silence from the council of commanders, which was supposed to issue a statement, but so far, no comments have come from the fighters. According to sources within the company, no decisions have been made yet, and all branches continue to operate as usual. A well-structured system awaits its new leader - or an announcement of dissolution.

https://t.me/readovkaru/4096

sepheronx wrote:

par far wrote:

Isos wrote:It's quite surprising that after one and half year they never tried to go after Zelensky and its top command staff but they kill Prigo.

Some talk about the coup but there was neher a coup since he never planned to remove Putin, his problem was the MoD which frankly had so-so results so far, Wagner did the hardest part in Ukraine.

Meanwhile there is a war with Ukraine and the most obvious move, killing enemy leaders, was never made.

Its killing was just to show others how they will end if they try something. Prigo didn't deserve such end. Letting him run Wagner in Africa was OK.

If you are saying the Russian government did this than, I don't believe they were involved. Prigozhin could have been very good to expand Russian influence in Africa. This is a loss for Russia, Africa might be lost.

Please stop posting things you clearly have zero idea on.  It just making you look ridiculous and further shits on this already piss poor thread.

Once again, what has he done? Answer me.

Wagner did a good job on helping African countries, from getting out of yoke of the west and Prigozhin was a figure head. People in Niger were carrying Russian flags, Wagner and Prigozhin played a big role.

It's like talking to a wall with you people...how often does it have to be said: there is no evidence that Wagner is pulling out of Africa!

As to "it wasn't a coup attempt": then why did the Wagner scum clearly move toward Moscow as well as literally release at least one video directly threatening Putin while going all in with a literally pro-Ukrainian narrative?

As to Elensky: Elensky is more pro-Russian than Prigo ever was. Unlike Prigo, who is just another filthy oligarch of a certain tribe enriching himself at the expense of ordinary Russians, Elensky is helping to demilitarize Ukraine by obliging the RuAF and its meat grinders every day. Prigo, on the other hand, in a vain attempt to attain glory, ended the Artyomovsk meat grinder pre-maturely at the cost of thousands of lives of ill-prepared prisoners and other volunteers...all the while constantly sowing division, trying to claim all glory, putting down the RuAF, behaving like a filthy animal to the point he even airs a video of his own dead men to score political points and then literally going maximum retard and starting to murder Russian officers and border guards, trying with force in a time of war to hold on to his special privileges and money maker because his gigantic ego just couldn't take it that Wagner was going to be integrated into the RuAF...this guy was never fit to be in the position he was in. It almost doesn't matter who replaces him as the head of Wagner because you can't really do a worse job than he did.

sepheronx wrote:

par far wrote: Wagner did a good job on helping African countries, from getting out of yoke of the west and Prigozhin was a figure head. People in Niger were carrying Russian flags, Wagner and Prigozhin played a big role.

OK, so now, you can use your brain.  Lets put it to the test.

Who was Prigozhin?  Did he run Wagner?

Prigozhin played a big role in building up Wagner, did he run Wagner? From the information we have, he played a large role in running Wagner.