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    Wagner Chief Y.Prigozhin killed in plane crash

    Erk
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    Post  Erk Fri Aug 25, 2023 5:37 am

    Do we know the official cause of the plane crash yet?

    Did they confirm via DNA test on the bodies that Prigozhin was actually onboard?
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    Post  GarryB Fri Aug 25, 2023 6:24 am

    No one works in Africa to redo the damage due to idealism.

    Of course idealism comes in to it... otherwise Wagner would take the likely huge payment offers from the French and Europeans and Americans to get those damn darkies in line... perhaps that is what happened... western orgs like the CIA offered them large sums of money and continuous work for as long as they wanted to pretend to be helping those African countries but to in actual fact continue the status quo and that offer was rejected and then a bomb goes off in their plane.

    Money is obviously the reason for working but I doubt they would take a cheque from the US and start working for Kiev either.

    They are not the A team who takes on the jobs of the weak and under priviledged and then refuse payment at the end or give the money to some orphanage they just saved from some big company.

    It is interesting that if you watch TV from the 80s it was always big corporations that were the bad guys... now it is government people and foreigners...

    Russia wants to cut out western powers of influence and cheap resources.

    Russia has kicked the western moochers out and stopped supplying cheap energy and resources to the west so it makes sense for them to want the same for the rest of the world... Africa included, but also central and south America and Asia and literally everywhere else.

    It could benefit African countries if there won’t be a massive war and they manage to find new business partners

    The west is in no position to fight a massive war... the conflict in Ukraine has bled them so bad they are faltering on part B of the plan to start a war in Asia... they wont want a war in Africa too...

    (Russia is not interested in their resources, but whole Asia would replace European demand)

    The faster the world joins BRICS the faster they will be protected from the predatory west that wants all other countries to conform to their standards and ethics and ideals.

    He made loads of enemies among Russian military. VKS wanted him dead due to killing of pilots and they are very tighly knitt community for example. I wouldn’t suspect Putin in this case. Prigos inner circle could have been shaky as well.

    So the west is right and the Russian military is a mafia type organisation... so why are so many western officials not dead in suspicious circumstances?

    The fact that they will be happy he is dead proving they were responsible is the sort of bullshit logic the west has been pushing over the Skripals and Covid and all sorts of other shit.

    It is bad logic.

    This is most likely a NATzO-organized Ukr hit like the one on Daria Dugina. NATzO is crapping its pants over its looming ejection from Africa.
    The Russian government had no reason to stage this attack after it obviously restored Prigozhin's freedom of action.

    It is like a repeat of the Skripals... if they wanted him then why let him go in the first place?

    And why risk killing random people with blunt weapons of luck.

    So it's actually because Russia isn't a banana republic that they can't just arrest him for violating informal agreements.

    But if they are a law abiding country that has rules and follows the rules will also enforce the rules when rules are broken.

    Informal in front of the word agreement does not change the fact that it is an agreement... the Russians were very flexible on the grain deal but eventually they said enough and ended it. They didn't just start bombing and blowing up ships... they formally ended the agreement and then attacked military targets in the port that were used to smuggle weapons and ammo in breach of the agreement.

    He and his dogs have been working for the enemy, tried to collapse their own country from the inside and murdered Russian pilots

    That is no arrest and prosecution for that, only execution

    Without a public trial all his alleged crimes will now remain heresay.

    He essentially gets away with it.

    All 25 000 of them should have been exterminated on that highway to Moscow and hosed off into the sewers

    Which would have cost Russia more soldiers than they have lost in this entire conflict to date... man I am glad you are not in charge.

    It's quite surprising that after one and half year they never tried to go after Zelensky and its top command staff but they kill Prigo.

    AFAIK they have only ever killed a few of the nastier chechens who would otherwise evade justice.

    It is western countries that kill people if they can't get their hands on them or they let proxies do it like with Saddam and Gadaffi, or they do it themselves like the decades they tried to kill Saddam and Castro.

    Its killing was just to show others how they will end if they try something. Prigo didn't deserve such end. Letting him run Wagner in Africa was OK.

    Everything you said suggests reasons why they wouldn't kill them, and killing lots of people to get one person is more US and western style anyway, yet you still believe it was Russians... amusing.

    If you are saying the Russian government did this than, I don't believe they were involved. Prigozhin could have been very good to expand Russian influence in Africa. This is a loss for Russia, Africa might be lost.

    I agree, but Africa is standing for itself and whatever replaces Wagner or any other Russian Merc group could offer the same services... African leaders are telling Europe they are not welcome and that the damage they are doing is to stop.

    They are also telling the US to get out... much harder to get rid of cockroaches though... when they find a free meal and a warm bed they are bastards to shift...

    But Africa as a whole seems to think it is about time for them to live the life they probably glimpse on western TV.... of course that is not real... a group of friends in New York living in enormous apartments... yeah right...


    Prigozhin didn't fall from the sky. He was Putin's confidante for more than a decade and Russian state was giving him all the lucrative catering and other contracts.
    So call him "filthy oligarch" or however you want, but he is a product of Russian state and security structures under Putin.

    Someone had to provide catering and other services, so anyone could have gotten rich doing that, but then an more honest person might not have gotten so rich as he did and spent more on the food to provide a better service... how unAmerican is that...

    Interesting fact is that this was first time this model of the plane crashed in little over 20 years of use. And there is about 300 of them in the existence. I don't believe plane was a problem.

    The suggestion is that if he flew around in a domestic aircraft type he would be considered a more patriotic Russian and be less of a target... except it was most likely western intel services trying to take out a threat to their occupation of Africa.

    The irony of course is that he will likely be replaced by someone perhaps more patriotic and ideologically based who will do an even better job.

    And no, he wasn't "Putin's confidante" lol...not any more than Chubais or other idiots who eventually were replaced. This is another result of Western propaganda making everyone think that all things of note in Russia happen at the direct personal behest of dictator-at-large Vladimir the Ruthless. He was a glorified caterer, who eventually outlived his usefulness.

    But but but Putin controls US presidents like Trump and any EU official who speaks out about cutting off energy and resources from Russia is also Putins puppet... how can someone so powerful not control everything and everyone...

    (because the west genuinely wants to know because that would be useful for their plans).

    Did they confirm via DNA test on the bodies that Prigozhin was actually onboard?

    Bodies of the two top guys confirmed dead.

    Most of the rest is a Mills and Boons BS cheap novel of speculation and innuendo.  russia

    BTW Reminder, this is an English language forum so English or an English summary are mandatory.

    If you want a private chat in a local language then use Private Messaging.

    Future offenses will receive temporary bans... and that includes Russian or any other languages other than English.

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    Post  flamming_python Fri Aug 25, 2023 7:37 am

    Backman wrote:Substack


    I don't know whether Gonzalo Lira or Yevgeny Prigozhin was dumber, in picking a political fight with a dangerously more powerful opponent. Lira should have shut up and got out when the getting was good, and Prigozhin should have at some point read a biography of George Patton, just to get an idea of what happens to military dissenters. when they get too uppity.


    Prigozhin set his own wheel of doom in motion with his loud criticism of the support from the MOD in Bakmut. Everything played out like clockwork after that.


    Whatever the motive, if you're gonna yell that loud, you should think about the next move. That was the MOD taking Wagner from Prigozhin. Regardless of what anyone might think of MOD policies, MOD couldn't just stand by while P's was undermining the MOD's strategy in Ukraine.


    MOD made the obvious move to consolidate Wagner. At that point, Progozhinwas lost politically, and his "rebellion" was at best a desparate cris-de-cour that whimpered out instead of flared up.


    But now P was getting more dangerous. On the one hand, MOD couldn't stand by until the next time that P felt inspired to march on Moscow, but he was too popular to eliminate summarily.


    So MOD first had to subvert P's support among patriots, by eliminating leadership, First, put P on ice by sending him to "exile" in Belorus and Africa where he stay active but where his official power was limited for the time being.


    Before P had time to rebuild his base, back in the RF, MOD was taking steps to undercut the opposition by going after its leadership, removing public intellectual Strelkov and high-level military sympathizers like Surovikin and Popov from positions of influence. (It would be unlikely that MOD did NOT have political informants in the ranks.)


    At this point, the MOD had set the stage for removal. Prigozhin wasn't becoming any more reticent, and more likely to regrow into an even larger thorn. Time to fix the problem. A nebulous military attack is just the ticket, to cast a fog over the assassination just thick enough to make assassination deniable, but suggestive enough to send a warning.


    Well-played, MOD.

    The 'MoD' is not going to assassinate Prigozhin behind Putin's back. Or right in front of his face, as it were.
    Either the supreme commander would give the go-ahead himself, or it wouldn't happen.

    If Putin was somehow incapacitated then sure, there could be some such court intrigues, but otherwise no.

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    Post  TMA1 Fri Aug 25, 2023 9:26 am

    As a westerner I am out of touch to the byzantine corruption of Russia. Frankly I dont care. What I do care about is the western power cliques not regime changing Russia and inserting their own neolib puppets. Why? I prefer a number of corrupted factions over a fewer number of corrupted factions. If the western factions control Russia as well, then ultimately they will control the whole planet.

    And what little I know of the factions in power here in America, I do not want them to ever succeed in ruling the earth. This might sound silly to some of you but many of you are still under the illusion that nations still exist, and they voting and the democratic process still exists.

    It doesnt. All we can do is vote for the craziest candidates, try and expose the weirdo monsters in power and hope regular people wake up to how dire the situation is for us Americans and for Europeans too.

    Prigozhin was no hero. He was a businessman. One unscrupulous enough to throw discord into an existential war between Russia and the natosphere. Any Russian supporting him is legit retarded or deluded. Might as well start waving the rainbow flag and join nafo discords or whatever.

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    Post  GarryB Fri Aug 25, 2023 12:18 pm

    "If voting made any difference, they wouldn't let us do it." - Mark Twain.

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    Post  kvs Fri Aug 25, 2023 2:41 pm

    Russian "Byzantine corruption" can't hold a candle to the transcendental rot in the west.   All "elected" western governments are under
    full control of shadow oligarchies.   At least in Russia the actually elected government can act as a government and not a condom for
    special interests.   All the yapping about Russian oligarchs proves that they don't matter.   Comprador Yeltsin's regime was in the process
    of establishing an oligarch toilet, but it failed after Putin's arrival (which was essentially a coup).  The MSM censorship in the precious west
    means that the terms oligarch and corruption are never used.   There is a reason why the western MSM spends all its time screeching about
    foreign human rights abuses and threats from abroad.   Got to keep the sheeple's attention focused away from the problems at home.

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    Post  TMA1 Fri Aug 25, 2023 5:18 pm

    I know I guess I am a doomer too. I just hate to see euro and slav doomers essentially support western regime change by proxy. The way they act it is like they do not realize that the cliques in power here in America, and in the UK, and in Belgium are really, unredeemably evil and if they succeed in planting their puppets throughout what once was Russia they will essentially control the globe. At that point even China would be doomed.

    I dont like the plans of the malthusian globalist freaks here in power. I highly suggest european and slav peoples steer clear of them in your own regions. I think it is essentially too late for europeans and us Americans but it is not too late for slavs.

    This guy tried a coup in the midst of an existential conflict. Actions like this are not noble, Especially with the guy's track record.

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    Post  ArgentinaGuard Fri Aug 25, 2023 5:45 pm

    kvs wrote:Russian "Byzantine corruption" can't hold a candle to the transcendental rot in the west.   All "elected" western governments are under
    full control of shadow oligarchies.   At least in Russia the actually elected government can act as a government and not a condom for
    special interests.   All the yapping about Russian oligarchs proves that they don't matter.   Comprador Yeltsin's regime was in the process
    of establishing an oligarch toilet, but it failed after Putin's arrival (which was essentially a coup).  The MSM censorship in the precious west
    means that the terms oligarch and corruption are never used.   There is a reason why the western MSM spends all its time screeching about
    foreign human rights abuses and threats from abroad.   Got to keep the sheeple's attention focused away from the problems at home.

    Stop saying everyone when Donald Trump is against it.

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    Post  ArgentinaGuard Fri Aug 25, 2023 5:51 pm

    TMA1 wrote:I know I guess I am a doomer too. I just hate to see euro and slav doomers essentially support western regime change by proxy.  The way they act it is like they do not realize that the cliques in power here in America, and in the UK, and in Belgium are really, unredeemably evil and if they succeed in planting their puppets throughout what once was Russia they will essentially control the globe. At that point even China would be doomed.

    I dont like the plans of the malthusian globalist freaks here in power. I highly suggest european and slav peoples steer clear of them in your own regions. I think it is essentially too late for europeans and us Americans but it is not too late for slavs.

    This guy tried a coup in the midst of an existential conflict. Actions like this are not noble, Especially with the guy's track record.

    Well, there you have a great warrior like Trump. At least you have a hope.

    Trump could have retired with his millions but the guy dedicated himself to battling everything. He is one of the few politicians I admire, along with Orban and Putin. If Lula wasn't from the left and supported feminism, I might as well respect him because the guy loves Brazil.

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    Post  lyle6 Fri Aug 25, 2023 6:02 pm

    High ranking NATO officers who die whilst on covert missions are announced as having died from plane crashes.

    Thousands of disavowed Wagner musicians with access to nuclear weapons are now leaderless.

    Yeah this motherfucker is dead alright.  Laughing

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    Post  Backman Fri Aug 25, 2023 11:44 pm

    The scumbag did the mutiny at the exact time the chub counter offensive started. It even had a western NGO sounding name. The "March for justice". 

    And the Prigozin dupes tried to make it sound like it was just against Shoigu and Garisimov. And to top it all off , i am convinced that the whole campaign against both of them was a US seeded psyop. That really got traction with vulnerable Russians and Russia supporters. 

    They had a little Navalny style campaign going against Shoigu. You know , his dacha and daughter. No sane person starts an open campaign against your sitting defense minister and chief of staff no matter how bad the war is going. But that's what was happening. At one point it really felt like a majority of Russia supporters were going along with this. A lesson should be learned here but it probably won't be

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    Post  Backman Fri Aug 25, 2023 11:45 pm

    Who killed the traitor power panel 
    https://www.youtube.com/live/sGTe9Bwq9kg?si=SRGrksn3Uduy9EZi

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    Post  Regular Sat Aug 26, 2023 1:30 am



    Of course idealism comes in to it... otherwise Wagner would take the likely huge payment offers from the French and Europeans and Americans to get those damn darkies in line... perhaps that is what happened... western orgs like the CIA offered them large sums of money and continuous work for as long as they wanted to pretend to be helping those African countries but to in actual fact continue the status quo and that offer was rejected and then a bomb goes off in their plane.Money is obviously the reason for working but I doubt they would take a cheque from the US and start working for Kiev either.
    I doubt that Wagner leadership would have went that low as to work for Kiev or Washington, PMCs have families in Russia and they come from same soldier background where everyone knows each other and basically live together. Soviet type of community. But they did freelancing where they provided VIP and object protection and they did some questionable PMC things because no one looked or cared. No idealism when it comes swinging a hammer.


    Russia has kicked the western moochers out and stopped supplying cheap energy and resources to the west so it makes sense for them to want the same for the rest of the world... Africa included, but also central and south America and Asia and literally everywhere else.
    There are still plenty of France puppets in Africa and at the moment.
    The west is in no position to fight a massive war... the conflict in Ukraine has bled them so bad they are faltering on part B of the plan to start a war in Asia... they wont want a war in Africa too...
    Themselves? No way. But they can start a massive war by fanning flames in the continent. Africa has tons of tribal/national issues that were never solved and they still retain frictional borders drawn by colonialists, some cutting one tribes so they stay in 3 separate countries and etc. almost all central Africa have “Crimea situation” multiplied by 100. And it doesn’t coat much to stir shit and then swoop in as Peacekeepers when there’s no danger.
    So the west is right and the Russian military is a mafia type organisation... so why are so many western officials not dead in suspicious circumstances?
    Military itself is not Mafia type organisation, but those who served are not to mess with. I grew up in military village and my father served in VVS. They weren’t as young as submariners who got pensions in mid-30s, but they were sorted for life and with too much time and connections.
    I wouldn’t be surprised of anything as it would take one or two people.

    “The fact that they will be happy he is dead proving they were responsible is the sort of bullshit logic the west has been pushing over the Skripals and Covid and all sorts of other shit.

    It is bad logic.”

    I don’t follow West logic as they shit so many theories (some contradictory) and see what sticks. The thing is, that they were responsible for airmen deaths and during the war it was super painful for community that is getting smaller - HelicopterPilot and FighterBomber said that everything will be answered and this was sentiment shared by many families and friends of downed pilots. Actually, it shows that instead of Russia being painted as no one gives a crap about soldier lives and generals throw them left and right when in fact they would be lynched by family members. After 1st Chechen less pompastic events happened where street justice was served. 
    I am not saying that someone from VKS did it, but I am sure that if responsible are not prosecuted by gov, there could be vigilantes, but I still think they would have get the guy shot rather blow them up and risk losses of innocents on the ground. This what makes VKS vigilante theory less probable, but I wouldn’t rule out. NATO/UA sabotage is less likely as in the end, it doesn’t change anything at all, if it was them, then Bakhmut siege was the best time.
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    Post  Backman Sat Aug 26, 2023 9:42 am

    Prigozin was having a shadow summit with African leaders when the Russian govt had its own big Africa summit in July. What an idiot 

    https://www.youtube.com/live/tEdA846aN18?si=m8WtUC_O5QjOEF0Y
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Sat Aug 26, 2023 11:10 am

    Backman wrote:Who killed the traitor power panel 
    https://www.youtube.com/live/sGTe9Bwq9kg?si=SRGrksn3Uduy9EZi

    Yes it was the russsians, he gave them waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to many reasons. He was starting to become a problem for them
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    Post  ALAMO Sat Aug 26, 2023 11:24 am

    Backman wrote:Who killed the traitor power panel 
    https://www.youtube.com/live/sGTe9Bwq9kg?si=SRGrksn3Uduy9EZi

    Lukashenko put the thing into some perspective by saying that the way of killing him indicates that it was not Putin. He would have been much more subtle.
    Quite an interesting point of view, you must admit Laughing

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    Post  Begome Sat Aug 26, 2023 10:56 pm

    Just watching the latest Ritter interview with Danny Haiphong, where Ritter makes some interesting points; I definitely recommend the first half hour of it...TLDR he now thinks it was ammo and explosives that Prigo had on the plane and was improperly storing and handling that caused the crash...he also claims he heard some small arms ammo cooking off on a video of the plane landing, presumably in Africa...don't know how plausible that last part is, however. He compares it with a case where a USMC transport jet crashed due to improper munitions handling and storage onboard.

    Given the strange flight behavior minutes before the crash, which could point to them doing something particularly stupid, as well as Prigo's obsession with being some kind of almost Hollywood-like international war lord, having all these different passports and automatic weapons at his center and all the shady deals he engages in etc...plus he just came from Africa, where he would have had a lot of personal security and weapons with him and he just strikes me like the kind of guy who would want to have some explosives and grenades with him "just in case", while also being careless enough to not handle it properly. So I agree that this is one of the more likely explanations for the crash.

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    Post  Backman Sat Aug 26, 2023 10:58 pm

    After June 23, Prigozin lost the protection of Vladimir Putin. So it was open season on him after that. And someone took their shot.
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    Post  JohninMK Sat Aug 26, 2023 11:25 pm

    Zlatti71
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    ·
    5h
    Western sources report that Anton Elizarov, the commander of the unit that led the attack on Bakhmut and Soledar and also fought in Syria, the Central African Republic, and Libya, became the new leader of the Wagner group.

    #source
    @Slavyangrad

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    Post  kvs Sun Aug 27, 2023 3:00 am

    Supposedly video shows a fuselage without wings falling. So the theory that it was improperly stored ammunition does not fly. It seems
    that bombs were planted in the wheel wells of the jet.

    Anyway, I would wait for the investigation. Anyone claiming it will be a cover up should take their tin foil hat off.

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    Post  Big_Gazza Sun Aug 27, 2023 3:26 pm

    Prigozhin’s death confirmed by DNA tests – Moscow
    Genetic testing has identified all those listed as aboard the Wagner leader's doomed flight, the Investigative Committee has said

    https://www.rt.com/russia/581909-prigozhin-death-plane-crash-confirmed/

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    Post  nomadski Sun Aug 27, 2023 3:42 pm

    RIP, to all wagner who died. What they did for Russia is far more important than any crime they had committed. Now that the fighting efficacy of wagner is proven, fighting as a single unit, then the next step for recruiting of convicts, should be in my view, the continuation of the wagner " programme. " However individuals recruited from prison, should be able to remain anonymous, with no mention on records of criminal history. And join regular units, same as other troops, under military command. As well as pure wagner units, for those fresh out of prison, or wishing to join, but still under military command. The criminal records is known by police, in case of AWOL or other...military command reports all criminal incidents to police.

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    GarryB
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    Wagner Chief Y.Prigozhin killed in plane crash - Page 5 Empty Re: Wagner Chief Y.Prigozhin killed in plane crash

    Post  GarryB Sun Aug 27, 2023 6:37 pm

    Off Topic stuff moved to the talking bollocks thread in the general chat section.
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    Wagner Chief Y.Prigozhin killed in plane crash - Page 5 Empty Re: Wagner Chief Y.Prigozhin killed in plane crash

    Post  Backman Sun Aug 27, 2023 9:16 pm

    I'm not ruling out suicide. the guy was insane
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    Wagner Chief Y.Prigozhin killed in plane crash - Page 5 Empty Re: Wagner Chief Y.Prigozhin killed in plane crash

    Post  Werewolf Sun Aug 27, 2023 9:35 pm

    I personally believe it is the shitshow they are continue to play, however no idea for what purpose. The billionaire's titanic trip was more convincing. No bodies, no traces - losing the dogs on it's tail.

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