Wagner Chief Y.Prigozhin killed in plane crash

Backman wrote:Substack


I don't know whether Gonzalo Lira or Yevgeny Prigozhin was dumber, in picking a political fight with a dangerously more powerful opponent. Lira should have shut up and got out when the getting was good, and Prigozhin should have at some point read a biography of George Patton, just to get an idea of what happens to military dissenters. when they get too uppity.


Prigozhin set his own wheel of doom in motion with his loud criticism of the support from the MOD in Bakmut. Everything played out like clockwork after that.


Whatever the motive, if you're gonna yell that loud, you should think about the next move. That was the MOD taking Wagner from Prigozhin. Regardless of what anyone might think of MOD policies, MOD couldn't just stand by while P's was undermining the MOD's strategy in Ukraine.


MOD made the obvious move to consolidate Wagner. At that point, Progozhinwas lost politically, and his "rebellion" was at best a desparate cris-de-cour that whimpered out instead of flared up.


But now P was getting more dangerous. On the one hand, MOD couldn't stand by until the next time that P felt inspired to march on Moscow, but he was too popular to eliminate summarily.


So MOD first had to subvert P's support among patriots, by eliminating leadership, First, put P on ice by sending him to "exile" in Belorus and Africa where he stay active but where his official power was limited for the time being.


Before P had time to rebuild his base, back in the RF, MOD was taking steps to undercut the opposition by going after its leadership, removing public intellectual Strelkov and high-level military sympathizers like Surovikin and Popov from positions of influence. (It would be unlikely that MOD did NOT have political informants in the ranks.)


At this point, the MOD had set the stage for removal. Prigozhin wasn't becoming any more reticent, and more likely to regrow into an even larger thorn. Time to fix the problem. A nebulous military attack is just the ticket, to cast a fog over the assassination just thick enough to make assassination deniable, but suggestive enough to send a warning.


Well-played, MOD.

kvs wrote:Russian "Byzantine corruption" can't hold a candle to the transcendental rot in the west.   All "elected" western governments are under
full control of shadow oligarchies.   At least in Russia the actually elected government can act as a government and not a condom for
special interests.   All the yapping about Russian oligarchs proves that they don't matter.   Comprador Yeltsin's regime was in the process
of establishing an oligarch toilet, but it failed after Putin's arrival (which was essentially a coup).  The MSM censorship in the precious west
means that the terms oligarch and corruption are never used.   There is a reason why the western MSM spends all its time screeching about
foreign human rights abuses and threats from abroad.   Got to keep the sheeple's attention focused away from the problems at home.

TMA1 wrote:I know I guess I am a doomer too. I just hate to see euro and slav doomers essentially support western regime change by proxy.  The way they act it is like they do not realize that the cliques in power here in America, and in the UK, and in Belgium are really, unredeemably evil and if they succeed in planting their puppets throughout what once was Russia they will essentially control the globe. At that point even China would be doomed.

I dont like the plans of the malthusian globalist freaks here in power. I highly suggest european and slav peoples steer clear of them in your own regions. I think it is essentially too late for europeans and us Americans but it is not too late for slavs.

This guy tried a coup in the midst of an existential conflict. Actions like this are not noble, Especially with the guy's track record.

Of course idealism comes in to it... otherwise Wagner would take the likely huge payment offers from the French and Europeans and Americans to get those damn darkies in line... perhaps that is what happened... western orgs like the CIA offered them large sums of money and continuous work for as long as they wanted to pretend to be helping those African countries but to in actual fact continue the status quo and that offer was rejected and then a bomb goes off in their plane.Money is obviously the reason for working but I doubt they would take a cheque from the US and start working for Kiev either.

I doubt that Wagner leadership would have went that low as to work for Kiev or Washington, PMCs have families in Russia and they come from same soldier background where everyone knows each other and basically live together. Soviet type of community. But they did freelancing where they provided VIP and object protection and they did some questionable PMC things because no one looked or cared. No idealism when it comes swinging a hammer.

Russia has kicked the western moochers out and stopped supplying cheap energy and resources to the west so it makes sense for them to want the same for the rest of the world... Africa included, but also central and south America and Asia and literally everywhere else.

There are still plenty of France puppets in Africa and at the moment.

The west is in no position to fight a massive war... the conflict in Ukraine has bled them so bad they are faltering on part B of the plan to start a war in Asia... they wont want a war in Africa too...

Themselves? No way. But they can start a massive war by fanning flames in the continent. Africa has tons of tribal/national issues that were never solved and they still retain frictional borders drawn by colonialists, some cutting one tribes so they stay in 3 separate countries and etc. almost all central Africa have “Crimea situation” multiplied by 100. And it doesn’t coat much to stir shit and then swoop in as Peacekeepers when there’s no danger.

So the west is right and the Russian military is a mafia type organisation... so why are so many western officials not dead in suspicious circumstances?

Military itself is not Mafia type organisation, but those who served are not to mess with. I grew up in military village and my father served in VVS. They weren’t as young as submariners who got pensions in mid-30s, but they were sorted for life and with too much time and connections.
I wouldn’t be surprised of anything as it would take one or two people.

“The fact that they will be happy he is dead proving they were responsible is the sort of bullshit logic the west has been pushing over the Skripals and Covid and all sorts of other shit.

It is bad logic.”

I don’t follow West logic as they shit so many theories (some contradictory) and see what sticks. The thing is, that they were responsible for airmen deaths and during the war it was super painful for community that is getting smaller - HelicopterPilot and FighterBomber said that everything will be answered and this was sentiment shared by many families and friends of downed pilots. Actually, it shows that instead of Russia being painted as no one gives a crap about soldier lives and generals throw them left and right when in fact they would be lynched by family members. After 1st Chechen less pompastic events happened where street justice was served. 
I am not saying that someone from VKS did it, but I am sure that if responsible are not prosecuted by gov, there could be vigilantes, but I still think they would have get the guy shot rather blow them up and risk losses of innocents on the ground. This what makes VKS vigilante theory less probable, but I wouldn’t rule out. NATO/UA sabotage is less likely as in the end, it doesn’t change anything at all, if it was them, then Bakhmut siege was the best time.

Genetic testing has identified all those listed as aboard the Wagner leader's doomed flight, the Investigative Committee has said