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    UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News #3

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Fri Dec 22, 2023 6:16 am

    To be fair many of their larger drone projects have been limited by their lack of light engines... generally the Russians didn't bother with small engines for light aircraft... the Mi2 is a Russian design but was made in eastern europe with eastern european engines, and the An-2 was made in the Ukraine.

    Since the end of the cold war they have a few aircraft in the light aircraft range like Ansat and Ka-225 but these aircraft have American and French engines, while their new light combat trainer used a german engine and their jet trainer has traditionally be foreign with foreign engines too.

    New light engines are getting ready for serial production and when they are ready an enormous number of projects that have been frozen because of a lack of engine will be able to be given the green light and start replacing foreign types and obsolete soviet types currently in use.

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    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Fri Dec 22, 2023 11:07 am

    It is not that they did not bother. Soviet union explicitly gave them to allied nations like Czechoslovakia (or Poland) in order to give them work and useful industries.
    Now some of the derivatives of those engines are manufactured and sold as GE engines.

    Even the core of the AI-22 engine from which the yak-130 engine was derived was originally developed in Slovakia in 1987.

    On top of that practically all of the engines for helicopters and the majority of the civilian passenger planes and military cargo planes engines of Soviet union were manufactured in Zaporozhye.

    Only after 2015 they started to get independent from ukraine.

    So it was impossible until recently to have independent production of light aircraft or drones.

    Nowadays the Saturn AL-55 has similar thrust (about 1.8 tons at takeoff) as the old Ivchenko-Progress AI-25 which was mounted on the Czech trainer Aero L-39 Albatros (used extensively in the soviet union).

    Two years ago two of these engines were supplied to India for certification of their jet trainer.

    https://news.rambler.ru/troops/46817512-rossiya-postavila-indii-aviadvigateli-dlya-uchebno-trenirovochnogo-samoleta/

    Russia supplied India with aircraft engines for training aircraft
    July 14, 2021

    United Engine Corporation (UEC) Rostec supplied the Indian corporation HAL with two AL-55I engines for the final stage of certification tests of the Indian HJT-36 aircraft. This was reported to reporters by the Rostec press service. 

    As noted in the state corporation, UEC carried out work to increase the service life of two engines, which have operated on stands for more than 5,000 hours. Representatives of the customer were present at the acceptance tests.

    “There are also plans to work to increase the service life of 16 AL-55I engines already supplied to HAL Corporation earlier. In addition, significant work has already been done to organize licensed production of AL-55I engines at HAL Corporation enterprises,” the press service quotes the deputy as saying. General Director of UEC Yuri Shmotin. 

    AL-55I is a two-circuit turbojet engine. Developed by order of the Indian corporation HAL for the HJT-36 training aircraft. The engine features a modular design that ensures high manufacturability and low operating costs. A modern digital control system is responsible for piloting safety and ease of maintenance.

    In February this year, as part of the international aerospace exhibition Aero India, the engine successfully lifted the Indian HJT-36 training aircraft into the air during demonstration flights.

    The same engine was also proposed for the trainer KB SAT SR-10, even in an unmanned combat drone version.

    Furthermore if Russia develops (possibly from the core of the AI-222 Yak-130 engine (or from its SM-100 derivative) a modern russian version of the larger AI-22 engine (a bit more than twice the thrust of the Saturn AL-55 (and of the AI-25) it could be used also for larger drones, similar to the American Boeing MQ-25 Stingray  (an aerial refueling drone) or the Northrop Grumman RQ-4 Global Hawk and MQ-4C Triton  (high-altitude, remotely-piloted surveillance aircrafts) 
    which all use the RR AE3007 turbofan engine with 3.5 to 4.5 tons thrust  (depending on the versions).

    On the smaller turboprop engine sizes, the VK-800S engine of the Baikal could go on a drone of the size of the reaper, like a single engine version of the Altius drone.

    The Altius drone was previously using the German 500 hp diesel engine of the yak-152, but it was already announced a probable replacement with the VK-800S.

    Still it seems a bit too much since it is a much more powerful engine. So I was thinking that Russia could be already developing a single engine derivative of the Altius combat drone (which I believe was originally developed as a twin engine aircraft only because of the lack of an engine with the needed power, like the Czech Walter M601 of the Let -410 (now derived into the GE H80 series) or the american Garret (now Honeywell) TPE-331.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Dec 23, 2023 12:22 pm

    They were also working on the VK-650 as well, which might be better suited to replace a 500hp engine in roles like the Yak-152 or indeed the Ka-225...


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    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Sat Dec 23, 2023 12:32 pm

    GarryB wrote:They were also working on the VK-650 as well, which might be better suited to replace a 500hp engine in roles like the Yak-152 or indeed the Ka-225...

    Yes of course, but it is not large enough for a drone of the size of the reaper.

    It can replace that diesel engine in the Altius by keeping it a two engines drone, but I was thinking that the VK-800 S could be instead enough to make a slightly smaller single engine derivative of the Altius, since with 800 or 850 hp it would be close to the 900 hp of the American Reaper drone.
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    Post  GarryB Sat Dec 23, 2023 12:46 pm

    I was thinking something more exotic like a model in the video with electric engines driving propellers being run by a combination of batteries and a VK-650V engine driving a generator.

    In fact I would think fitting a drive shaft to a generator on a gas turbine engine... do you have to just have one generator or could you have a series of generators on a long shaft sticking out the front of the gas turbine engine all being driven by the same shaft being driven by the gas turbine engine.

    This GT engine turns the main rotor blades of a helicopter and also the tail rotor, or in the case of a coaxial helicopter two sets of main rotors in a counter rotating shaft design, so having the engine mounted on a frame with three or four generators lined up in front of it with a shaft leading from the GT through the three or four generators would generate electricity in each generator.

    Interesting mention about a VK-100 that is the APU generator in Su-34 and other aircraft from Sukhoi and MiG.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Tue Dec 26, 2023 4:57 am

    @thegopnik

    Hope you don't mind but I moved your post to the Sotnik (Ratnik III) thread.

    This is a copy of what thegopnik posted:

    https://tass.com/defense/1726205

    Kalashnikov to add mini drones to combat outfit
    According to Alan Lushnikov, the company plans it for third-generation outfit and actively works in the field
    MOSCOW, December 25. /TASS/. The Kalashnikov Company plans to add small scout and attack drones to third-generation combat outfit in 2024, President Alan Lushnikov told Rossiya 24 TV channel.

    "As for 2024 plans, we want to expand the line. We develop small drones for soldiers. They are scouts and attack loitering munitions of the tactical level that will be included into the outfit. We plan it for third-generation outfit and actively work in the field," he said.

    In November, Lushnikov said the Kalashnikov was testing new-generation outfit with integrated scout drone controls.

    https://tass.com/defense/1726195

    Kalashnikov ships first batch of upgraded Kub drones
    In November, the company's president said the Kalashnikov had increased Kub firepower and was working to extend the range
    MOSCOW, December 25. /TASS/. The Kalashnikov Company is shipping the first batch of upgraded Kub kamikaze drones to the customer, President Alan Lushnikov told Rossiya 24 TV channel.

    "We have implemented Kub loitering munition with a higher-power warhead according to customer requirements. Trials have been successful and the first batch is being shipped to the customer at the given moment. It is a major step, as it was actually a new device," he said.

    In November, Lushnikov said the Kalashnikov had increased Kub firepower and was working to extend the range.

    Previous Kub carried a 3-kg payload. Maximum flight endurance was 30 minutes and the speed was 130 km/h.

    Original post moved to here.

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    Rasisuki Nebia
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    Post  Rasisuki Nebia Sat Dec 30, 2023 11:52 am



    Pretty clean workshop, would love if they improved the optical system but who am i to complain, if it works it works  Laughing

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    Hole
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    Post  Hole Sat Dec 30, 2023 4:15 pm

    UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News #3 - Page 5 Screen45
    Russia isn´t runnig out of drones.

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    Post  lyle6 Sat Dec 30, 2023 7:40 pm

    Rasisuki Nebia wrote:
    Pretty clean workshop, would love if they improved the optical system but who am i to complain, if it works it works  Laughing
    The image quality on the Orlan-10 is good enough for a trained observer to detect and isolate notable visual features on typical battlefield targets. Really, that's all one needs, anything more is just paying for RGB for your keyboard. Sure looks pretty, but only do it if you have a wallet to spare.

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    Hole
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    Post  Hole Sat Dec 30, 2023 9:59 pm

    Some of the Orlans are equipped with Thermals + Lasers for marking targets for guided grenades.
    Not much to complain here.

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    Post  Hole Mon Jan 01, 2024 5:22 pm

    UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News #3 - Page 5 Screen46
    New Lancet Izd. 55 model
    X-wing with 4 propellers

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    Post  ALAMO Mon Jan 01, 2024 5:24 pm

    ... and AI driven autonomy of a swarm Twisted Evil

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    Post  GarryB Tue Jan 02, 2024 3:20 am

    Hahahaha... something the west has been promising for years...

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    Post  ALAMO Thu Jan 04, 2024 12:08 pm

    GarryB wrote:Hahahaha... something the west has been promising for years...

    Let's be fair ...
    This is something already fielded ...

    https://t.me/c/1638135777/25280

    Oh no, it is Russkie, again Shocked

    Laughing Laughing Laughing

    Izd. 53.

    Constructed for autonomous operations with no human interaction.
    Does not need any signals for steering, target designation etc.
    Operates in swarms with simultaneous data exchange among the entire swarm.
    AI steered, with target location, designation and prioritization.
    It is being released with search pattern of specified type of targets and will ignore anything lower in a hierarchy.
    However, if something of a higher value will be spotted - it will attack the higher value target.

    Already being used at the front line.

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    UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News #3 - Page 5 Empty Brilliant economic analysis of costs of UAVs etc vs tanks etc

    Post  Gazputin Thu Jan 11, 2024 3:27 am

    yeah National Interest is a twat website
    but this economist Philip Pilkington is a smart guy ...

    https://nationalinterest.org/feature/shrinking-cost-war-threatens-western-militaries-208177

    an extract ....

    Consider the relative costs. A Lancet drone costs around $35,000. It appears to be easy and quick to produce, with ZALA Aero Group announcing it will increase production by “several times this year.” A Leopard II tank, on the other hand, costs around $11 million. It is also slow to manufacture, with maybe fifty or so produced each year.

    This is where things begin to get absurd. On a pure cost basis, Russia can produce 314 Lancet drones for every Leopard II tank Germany produces. This gets even more dramatic if we factor in relative prices in the two countries by using purchasing power parity (PPP) adjustment—how economists make accurate international economic comparisons. With this, we find that, for the cost of producing one Leopard II tank in Germany, Russia can produce 683 Lancet drones. This raises an obvious question: is the battlefield worth of a Leopard II equivalent to nearly seven hundred Lancet drones? Probably not.

    I recommend you all read this - it is a brilliant article

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    UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News #3 - Page 5 Empty Russian Navy - Su-70 Okhotnik

    Post  Gazputin Thu Jan 11, 2024 1:29 pm

    sounds like those new Su-30SM2s for the Rus Navy .... the back-seater will be able to control the Su-70 ?

    which Kronstadt Inkhodets UAV he is talking about ? .... probably the twin engined one given how long their Arctic borders are .

    "The naval aviation of the Russian Navy will be strengthened by the Okhotnik and Pacer attack drones, said the Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Navy, Admiral Nikolai Yevmenov, in an interview with the Krasnaya Zvezda newspaper. "Particular attention is paid to the development of unmanned aviation. It is planned to put into service modern unmanned systems #Иноходец, #Охотник," - said N. Yevmenov.


    He clarified that increasing the combat capabilities of anti-submarine and naval reconnaissance aviation is planned through the modernization of the existing fleet of aircraft, such as #Ту142МЗ, #Ил38 and helicopters #Ка27, #Ка31Р, as well as the creation of advanced anti-submarine aviation systems. The development of naval assault and fighter aviation of the fleet is ensured by rearmament with modern aviation complexes of the "4++" generation and the arrival of shipborne attack helicopters #Ка52К.

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    Post  ALAMO Thu Jan 11, 2024 2:59 pm

    Gazputin wrote:
    I recommend you all read this - it is a brilliant article

    No, no 50 Leopards are being made yearly.
    If you can combine all of them rolled out from the factories, it might be half of that, but none of those has been built.
    All are refurbished.
    Every single number given by the western articles is based on their own experience and price tag, which is irrelevant to the Russian.

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    Post  GarryB Fri Jan 12, 2024 12:25 am

    The price given for Lancets was 200,000 rubles... which on the currency converter works out at about $2,400 US dollars... not that US dollars would be involved as it is all in Rubles.

    If those Leopard 2s they are not making costs 11 million and the Lancets are costing 2.5 grand each that means for each Leopard 2 they make the Russians could make 4,400 Lancet drones... the amusing difference is that the Germans are not making any Leopard 2s, while the Russians are probably making rather more than 4,000 lancets.

    It seems only one side it taking this seriously and the other is tipping cash into a hole hoping to fill it, but there are thieves in the bottom hauling the money away as it goes in... like trying to destroy a black hole by feeding it matter...

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    Post  ALAMO Fri Jan 12, 2024 7:58 am

    Inflated prices or Russian weaponry given by the western shitstream are made only to cover the scale of corruption that drains the west.
    As an example, Krasnopol round that is widely cited in the western sources is in between of 35-70k $.
    It is being used as a benchmark for the western rounds of similar type, that cost up to 100k $ a piece Laughing
    The only issue is, that there is only one relatively confirmed information about Krasnopol price.
    It is export price for India, a long time ago, and well below $6k.
    Krasnopol can't cost more than Kornet or Metis, and those are being exported for around $3k for a spare missile.
    So what we have, is practically 30x the price gap.
    It can't be answered by any other means than corruption.
    If something looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and kwaks like a duck - it is a duck.

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    Post  Hole Fri Jan 12, 2024 12:06 pm

    other means than corruption.
    From the viewpoint of the MIC this is called maximizing profits. Wink

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    Post  ALAMO Fri Jan 12, 2024 12:16 pm

    Yeah, like those Gepard ammo for 1k euro a piece Laughing Laughing
    Imagine making 20-30 pcs burst to take down a $1000 Geranium Laughing Laughing Laughing

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    Post  thegopnik Sun Jan 21, 2024 6:20 am

    https://topwar.ru/234479-bespilotnik-bombardirovschik-inferno.html

    Inferno bomber drone
    Inferno bomber drone


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    Light and medium UAVs have gained special importance. Photo by the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation


    The unmanned aircraft of the Russian army are replenished with a new model of equipment. It became known about the start of serial production and deliveries of the promising Inferno attack unmanned aerial vehicle. This product is an ultralight bomber and is designed to destroy ground and surface targets. The new UAV differs from a number of other models of its class by improved combat capabilities.



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    A novelty for the army

    The promising Inferno attack UAV was developed by Rustekhdron LLC from the Moscow region. This organization was created by a group of enthusiasts and officially launched in the fall of 2022.

    Until recently, nothing was reported about the Inferno project. Information about it was revealed only a few days ago, in mid-January. The management of Rustechdron told the main domestic media about the work carried out and its results, and also revealed some details of a technical nature.

    It is reported that to date, the company has completed the development of the Inferno product, conducted the necessary tests and brought the project to the stage of mass production. The first batches of new UAVs have already been sent to the troops and got into the zone of the Special Operation to protect Donbass. We are already talking about hundreds of drones, but their exact number, for obvious reasons, is not named.

    The Inferno UAV was created as an ultralight bomber capable of attacking targets at tactical depth. To do this, he received a special dropping device carrying several miniature "aerial bombs" made on the basis of available ammunition. It is planned to drop several bombs at the same time, which has a positive effect on the strike potential of the drone. Measures were also taken to improve bombing accuracy and survivability in a combat situation.


    View from the heading camera of an FPV drone. Photo Telegram / BEAVER

    Curiously, the appearance of the new bomber drone has not yet been revealed. The use of this technique has not yet been demonstrated. Nevertheless, it can be expected that photos and videos of this kind will appear in the very near future, and the continuation of the production and supply of UAVs will contribute to their early publication.

    According to known data

    In recent publications about the Inferno product, some of the tactical and technical characteristics are mentioned and combat capabilities are named. At the same time, other information is not yet available. In particular, the class and architecture of this UAV are not unequivocally named, although known data suggest that we are talking about a helicopter with several propeller groups.

    Judging by the declared characteristics, the Inferno can have a diameter of up to a meter with the appropriate dimensions of the main rotors, etc. The power plant is probably built in the simplest way possible - on the basis of electrical components. Accordingly, there is a battery of sufficient capacity and a controller to control several motors on board. The payload of the Inferno, as reported, reaches 4 kg. Based on this, the gross weight of the device can be estimated at 10-12 kg.

    Only the range of the unmanned system is openly mentioned - 5 km. After solving a combat mission or generating a battery charge, the drone must return to the operator to prepare for the next flight.

    The Inferno is remotely controlled according to the FPV principle. On board the drone there is a heading camera that transmits a video signal to the operator's glasses and ensures the flight. An interesting innovation is a separate camera aimed at the lower hemisphere. With its help, the operator must search for targets and perform bombing.


    A device for dropping grenades from the Orlan UAV. It is possible that a similar system is used on the Inferno. Photo by the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation

    The UAV is equipped with an ammunition dropper of a curious design. It has nine cells for miniature bombs, as well as a release control mechanism. At the operator's command, three munitions are dropped simultaneously; The size of the ammunition load makes it possible to carry out three such bombing operations in succession.

    The design of the ejection device allows the use of different types of ammunition. These can be grenades of the VOG series in their original form or with an added shank, as well as factory-made specialized weapons for UAVs. The effect on the target and its effect directly depend on the class and type of ammunition used.

    Design Potential

    So far, not all the information of interest about the Inferno UAV has been disclosed. Nevertheless, the available data allow us to make assumptions and preliminary conclusions. There is reason to believe that such a drone has a number of important features and in some respects is superior to other modern strike systems of domestic and foreign production.

    The most important feature of the Inferno is its relatively high payload capacity of up to 4 kg, which is several times higher than that of a number of common UAVs. Of interest is a solution with a dropping device with cells for small ammunition. It allows you to drop several "bombs" at the same time and repeat the attack. The vast majority of modern attack UAVs carry only one weapon and face understandable limitations.

    The dropper is compatible with different ammunition. First of all, grenades for automatic and underbarrel grenade launchers are considered as an aviation means of destruction, showing a high destructive effect on "soft" targets. It is also reported about the introduction of specialized shaped charge "air bombs" capable of hitting armored vehicles, and in the least protected projection.


    KBP-71 turret release system

    The Rustechdron company solved the issue of drone control in an interesting way. For flight and piloting, the FPV principle and appropriate instruments are used. At the same time, the search for the target and the release of ammunition are carried out using a separate camera, which increases the achievable accuracy. Allegedly, the sighting camera allows you to bomb the target from level flight and without hovering. Accordingly, UAVs do not become an easy target for enemy air defense and electronic warfare.

    Recent media publications have not disclosed the issues of the new UAV's resistance to enemy effects, primarily of an electronic nature. Perhaps the draft has taken appropriate measures, but it is not necessary to talk about them yet.

    The declared performance raises some questions. For example, the range of the Inferno is still only 5 km, which is enough to solve some combat missions, but often there is a need to work at greater depths. Perhaps, in the future, as the initial project develops, the combat radius will increase and will allow for a more complete realization of the technical potential of the structure.

    Initiative and benefit

    Thus, the domestic industry continues to develop and put into production new models of unmanned aircraft, and new participants are regularly involved in this process. The Rustechdron company began operations less than a year and a half ago, but its products in the amount of hundreds of units are already entering the troops and are being used as part of the Special Operation.

    New unmanned aircraft companies offer and implement various interesting ideas, and they are tested in practice. Thus, within the framework of the Inferno project, more advanced principles for controlling an attack UAV and a new device for the use of weapons were proposed. It can be expected that these solutions will show themselves well at the front and in the future will become widespread in various projects of unmanned vehicles.

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    Post  Hole Wed Jan 24, 2024 10:14 pm

    UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News #3 - Page 5 64351210
    UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News #3 - Page 5 66397710
    Quadcopter with ATGM

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    GarryB


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    UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News #3 - Page 5 Empty Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News #3

    Post  GarryB Thu Jan 25, 2024 5:22 am

    Hahaha.... at first I thought they were taking the piss, but if you can fit the missile and launcher on a drone and lift it it wouldn't take much to mount a camera in the eyepiece, but of course you would have to keep the whole platform level and stable and the crosshair aimed solidly on the target from launch to impact... which wont be easy.

    I suspect this is just playing around unless the stability performance of that drone is amazing.

    And if they were serious it would make more sense with a lighter system like Metis-M1...

    But actually a more compact and simplified launcher with a smaller more compact missile like Bulat would be interesting.

    The main problem is the mass of the launcher will be very limiting for range and altitude etc etc and having enough stability to point a crosshair on a target some distance away and hold it on there long enough for the missile to reach its target... I would say it would be much easier to make a version carrying rockets that you aim and launch from closer range.

    Imagine a drone you could fly over a column of enemy vehicles with say 57mm rockets with HE and HEAT warheads that you could fly down the line of vehicles at say 500m altitude and launch 16 rockets at 16 targets... aiming for a vehicle target that close would be much easier than from several kms distance, and you don't need to hold aim till impact and can continue down the column firing a rocket or two at each vehicle... and then fly back for a reload.

    If it gets shot down then it gets shot down... no big deal. But the damage it could do would be impressive and yet still be harder to shoot down than a helicopter or aircraft.
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    UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News #3 - Page 5 Empty Rostec to make 3118 aircraft engines in 2024

    Post  Gazputin Fri Jan 26, 2024 3:31 am

    did they just tell us how many compact turbojets etc they are making for Kalibres and UAVs ?
    otherwise these figures are insane ....
    and surely it must involve a lot of 3D printing of components if those numbers are true

    21 Jan 2024
    "Rostec raises the bar: in 2024, the corporation will produce 3118 aircraft engines
    The United Engine Corporation (UEC, part of Rostec) in 2024 will increase the plan for the production of power plants for aircraft and helicopters.
    This was stated by a representative of Rostec at the Russia Forum, which is taking place in Moscow.

    According to the presentation, in 2024, the output volume is planned at 3118, which is twice as much as in 2021 (1417). Next year, UEC expects to hand over 3,763 power plants to customers.

    This includes PD-8 engines for SJ-100 and MS-21 amolets, VK-1600V and VK-650V for Ka-62, Ka-226, TV7-117ST-01 helicopters for Il-114-300.

    Earlier it was reported that serial production of the PD-14 will begin this year. The engine should replace foreign models of power plants with the MS-21 as part of the import substitution program. PD-8 engines were planned to be installed on Be-200 amphibious aircraft."

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