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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34

    billybatts91
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    Post  billybatts91 Mon Dec 12, 2022 1:06 pm

    I sure hope a northern offensive is restarted...

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    Post  Dr.Snufflebug Mon Dec 12, 2022 1:08 pm

    I am 85% sure SVK already did donate aircraft, and that some of these have already been shot down.

    The public announcements of weapon transfers "being considered" have an odd tendency to come after the fact. Part of the infowar.

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    Post  Hole Mon Dec 12, 2022 1:11 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34 - Page 10 Fjwots10
    What Mastiffs doing?  Laughing

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    Post  Big_Gazza Mon Dec 12, 2022 1:29 pm

    Hilarious!!  Looks like the Ukrop misfired, with the round exploding either in the barrel or in the breech while loading.  The fire then set off the ammo stored in the hull.

    May all Nazi panzer crew die in the same way.  Razz

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    Post  lyle6 Mon Dec 12, 2022 1:54 pm

    Think it was aiming for a Russian tank when the gun misfired, alerting the target who made ample use of the opportunity to return the favor. lol1

    That's what happens when your ammo is almost exclusively 30 years old at the least.

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    Post  Dr.Snufflebug Mon Dec 12, 2022 1:55 pm

    Horrendous way to die. I bet the misfire killed at least one of the crewmembers, and then the others were severly injured, in horrific pain, and died when the magazine detonated.

    Bad ammo, barrel obstruction?
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    Post  Big_Gazza Mon Dec 12, 2022 1:58 pm

    Sympathy for Ukrop murderers is misplaced. I hope they all die in agony and despair. They deserve nothing less for the untold misery and suffering that their disgusting regime has inflicted.

    Please reserve your expressions of humanity for their victims.

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    Post  Dr.Snufflebug Mon Dec 12, 2022 2:02 pm

    I'd like to think that what separates me from hateful Bandera scum is a sense of humanity.

    Shitty way to perish is shitty no matter whose side you're on.

    They would probably rejoice seeing a Russian or Eastern Ukrainian tank crew dying in this horrific fashion. They'd make cringy social media memes about it, etc.

    Lowest of the low. I prefer keeping myself above.


    Last edited by Dr.Snufflebug on Mon Dec 12, 2022 2:07 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  psg Mon Dec 12, 2022 2:05 pm

    Fvck them nazi cunts, they fully deserve it. Brainwashed zombies. I got no remorse for them, after all the civilians and children they have killed, soldiers they have tortured, women raped and having nazi signs cut into them. I really hope RF forces decimate and wipes out all them nazi, nato, bandera, azov, right sector fvckers, permanently. Leave no trace of them bastards.

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    Post  Big_Gazza Mon Dec 12, 2022 2:15 pm

    Excellent news if confirmed. Kill the fcking Ukrotrash.

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    Post  Arkanghelsk Mon Dec 12, 2022 2:43 pm

    The article posted by Ispan was great, the source I am not sure how credible, but it sounds plausible and well researched,

    I think that as the author said, most of the Russian army problems stem from lack of political will and i have said this since months ago

    Individual criticism of the SMO military leadership was called for, but perhaps exaggerated, given that in truth the army itself started to fight "without initiative"

    Why wouldn't they?

    Without clear orders, or clear objectives, the military leadership is in a state of confusion

    If the primary objective is to protect manpower and personnel, military objectives become secondary and you have lost initiative, if not the war itself

    Thankfully Russian military strength is such that this problem by itself would not cause a collapse of the military grouping in Ukraine

    But imagine yourself a commander, and you are told to protect the lives of your men over achieving any visible or determinable military victories- well the conclusion would be to retreat back home wouldn't it? To save lives?

    That is something which should be corrected, the military chain of command should understand its objectives and transmit those goals to the frontline , and ours should have as good targeting and network centric capabilities to rapidly react to changes in the front line

    Actually with a numerical disadvantage, Russia would benefit tremendously from eliminating its own fog of war, and being able to pinpoint enemy nodes and our own front lines and to take advantage of opportunities which present themselves as the battles take place

    I hope that these problems are resolved, because I cannot imagine that this situation can continue as it is for so long , paralysis from lack of support and command can cripple the army even in spite of high morale

    Hopefully a unified combat control system utilizing strelok and other network centric tools can fix the deficiencies on the front


    Last edited by Arkanghelsk on Mon Dec 12, 2022 2:46 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  Dr.Snufflebug Mon Dec 12, 2022 2:44 pm

    The Ukrainians have suffered incredible losses in the Bakhmut area, perhaps 10,000 already, and continue to throw meat into the grinder like the morons they are.

    If there is any kind of "genocide" going on in Ukraine it is Zelensky's doing. And the west is complicit. But that's what they chose to do, so.

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    Post  Arkanghelsk Mon Dec 12, 2022 2:54 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34 - Page 10 Img_2225

    As Ispans article states, the shortage of equipment has led to a point where they can no longer replace their losses and loss of starlink and rapid command and control capabilities lead to loss of visibility on the battlefield

    The NATO style army we saw in autumn is back to its human wave tactics, as they have no choice but to throw fodder at the front in absence of battle management system and vehicles with equipment

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    Post  Regular Mon Dec 12, 2022 2:59 pm

    What else they can do apart from throwing more men into this meatgrinder? They are sending fairly green guys and plenty of foreigners it seems, at least this time they are not wasting their SF or bulk of their better quality forces. The question is - what is the goal now? Russia is mostly focuses in this area and it’s not like they it’s interfering with other Russian operations.

    @Ark, Ukrs were never NATO standard. Not saying that NATO is the best, only saying that Ukrainians have their ways to conduct war even if they are being controlled by the US. The way they conducted defences were always the same. Starlink, logististics, visibility, command and control… it was always static defence in depth with some suicidal rushes. Offensive operations on other hand, they can pull them off quite well if there is little to no resistance
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    Post  Dr.Snufflebug Mon Dec 12, 2022 3:14 pm

    Regular wrote:What else they can do apart from throwing more men into this meatgrinder? They are sending fairly green guys and plenty of foreigners it seems, at least this time they are not wasting their SF or bulk of their better quality forces. The question is - what is the goal now? Russia is mostly focuses in this area and it’s not like they it’s interfering with other Russian operations.

    What else? Well, they could accept reality for a change. Not that the west would allow them to, but still. The gravity of the situation is what it is, the choice is between losing and having tons of people killed, or losing but saving a lot of people's lives.

    Kiev could have saved a lot of territory too, had they agreed to some pretty simple things to begin with. They didn't, and now they are reaping what they sowed. Banderist idiocy and western ditto combined, stupid stooges.

    Don't get me wrong when I say I pity them.

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    Post  Regular Mon Dec 12, 2022 3:29 pm

    Accepting reality doesn’t work when you are in institution like army. You get stupid orders. You do them. Those who accept reality too much, can end up welded in a tank or shot in a ditch.

    If you are talking about population - well, war fatigue is setting in and who knows, but it’s too early still. Some of them still consider it war for survival and propaganda doesn’t help.

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    Post  flamming_python Mon Dec 12, 2022 3:56 pm

    The article posted by Ispan was great, the source I am not sure how credible, but it sounds plausible and well researched,

    I think that as the author said, most of the Russian army problems stem from lack of political will and i have said this since months ago

    Individual criticism of the SMO military leadership was called for, but perhaps exaggerated, given that in truth the army itself started to fight "without initiative"

    Why wouldn't they?

    Without clear orders, or clear objectives, the military leadership is in a state of confusion

    If the primary objective is to protect manpower and personnel, military objectives become secondary and you have lost initiative, if not the war itself

    Thankfully Russian military strength is such that this problem by itself would not cause a collapse of the military grouping in Ukraine

    But imagine yourself a commander, and you are told to protect the lives of your men over achieving any visible or determinable military victories- well the conclusion would be to retreat back home wouldn't it? To save lives?

    That is something which should be corrected, the military chain of command should understand its objectives and transmit those goals to the frontline , and ours should have as good targeting and network centric capabilities to rapidly react to changes in the front line

    Actually with a numerical disadvantage, Russia would benefit tremendously from eliminating its own fog of war, and being able to pinpoint enemy nodes and our own front lines and to take advantage of opportunities which present themselves as the battles take place

    I hope that these problems are resolved, because I cannot imagine that this situation can continue as it is for so long , paralysis from lack of support and command can cripple the army even in spite of high morale

    Hopefully a unified combat control system utilizing strelok and other network centric tools can fix the deficiencies on the front

    Minimizing your own casualties, while maximizing losses of men and material for the enemy - is what you're missing

    And in that regard General Armaggedon's decision to give battle at Bakhmut rather than at Kherson proved to be a prudent decision.
    Even if the former is technically an attack, and the later technically a defense; it is precisely at Bakhmut where he has been able to outmatch the Ukrainians overwhelmingly and bring multiple force multipliers to bear.
    Ukrainian command acted predictably and flooded the town with reserves, a town they cannot defend. But if they had retreated, then they would have forfeited their defensive line in the Donbass. They were given 2 bad choices and no 3rd one.

    Retreating back home won't save any lives; just open Russian territory and civilians for attack.
    Surovikin's strategy is to advance and secure more ground, just smartly that's all.

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    Post  Dr.Snufflebug Mon Dec 12, 2022 3:58 pm

    I don't mean the people on the ground.

    The higher ups however, all the way to Zelensky's cocaine den surely know what's going on, and have the power to stop it. Technically, anyway.

    But as it stands, the collective west and the local far-right nutters have the entire Ukrainian chain of command by the balls. Zelensky is like a low-level grunt "just following orders" at this stage. That's the bizarre thing. Nobody can step out of it and keep their lives, unfortunately. It's just an unholy spiral now, self-reinforcing itself to hell. But that's the design they came up with and all agreed to, I guess.

    They're determined to grind this shit to the ground, all in the hopes of MAYBE giving Russia an annoying little bruise, at the expense of any and all Ukrainians that can be coerced into grabbing a gun and running into the grinder.

    Sickening is what it is.

    None of it had to happen, had Kiev agreed to some very reasonable, actually quite obvious conditions, eg Minsk II for starters. But Bandera scum wouldn't allow it to happen, the U.S. certainly did not want it to happen, and even that old hag Merkel admitted just the other day that Minsk II was a ruse to buy time for the inevitable confrontation. Poroshenko and his cronies made that abundantly clear before in many of their domestic addresses too, but you know how it goes, it's not there if western media decides not to write about it.

    Blah blah blah. All of this is old news to most of you, I reckon.

    Just felt the need to mention how stupid it is,  mostly so for "Ukraine".


    Last edited by Dr.Snufflebug on Mon Dec 12, 2022 4:01 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  ALAMO Mon Dec 12, 2022 3:58 pm

    Post Dr.Snufflebug Today at 2:44 pm

    The Ukrainians have suffered incredible losses in the Bakhmut area, perhaps 10,000 already, and continue to throw meat into the grinder like the morons they are.
    If there is any kind of "genocide" going on in Ukraine it is Zelensky's doing. And the west is complicit. But that's what they chose to do, so.


    Superb NATO strategy, you know ...
    A while ago some republican artillery team was describing how the Ukr keep sending troops to something that looked like a concrete made industrial grade draining. All republican guns had the perfectly worked out coordinates and practiced hitting it for weeks. Each fresh troops there lasted till the first salvo. yet they kept sending there reinforcement daily basis. Almost 100 Ukrs has been wiped out in this one hole only, but the week haven't ended yet when they were talking ...

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    Post  famschopman Mon Dec 12, 2022 4:01 pm

    The moment you chose to forget to be human you've lost your humanity.

    These soldiers - as always with a few azov type / radical type exceptions - are not anti Russia but are simply picked up from the streets leaving behind family and young kids forced to take a crash course how to aim and fire a weapon, and then send off into the warzone with no prior experience in a proxy war by a country that collected to much debt to the point it became unsustainable and now tries everything to maintain their global status in order to avoid a complete default.

    I respect both sides, both Ukraine and Russia and its sad to see how many lives have been destroyed in this conflict. I am playing WZ2 on the PS5 with colleagues and getting angry because I cannot hear footsteps. These guys are on the front, in the cold, in the mud, shells exploding everywhere and putting their lives at risk for reasons neither side probably understands the real reasons. These are probably normal guys you would normally had a drink with. Now they are 'enemies'.

    You always have a few rotten power hungry apples doing horrible things to captured soldiers or civilians but I refuse to believe that is the majority.

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    Post  Dr.Snufflebug Mon Dec 12, 2022 4:06 pm

    Dr.Snufflebug wrote:So that Telegram channel "Divanniy genshtab" (couch warrior's general staff...) that was mentioned earlier published a more complete rundown:
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34 - Page 10 89y7CZh

    So these are supposedly Ukrainian KIAs confirmed by public obituaries, arranged by region of original residence.

    A total of 86,060 KIA more or less confirmed. Then add to that that far from all "enjoy" publicly accessibly obituaries, and that UA prefers to label them MIA for as long as possible. So it could well be 100,000+, upwards to 150,000.

    But, I am still not 100% sold, as I haven't inspected the methods of gathering this information, but with that caveat out of the way, I will also admit that 80-100k does not seem implausible whatsoever. Rather likely, in fact, given other indications.

    An interesting skew is the apparent overrepresentation of Transcarpathia by the Hungarian border, and the mid-Dnepr region (Poltava and thereabouts). But as I said, it could be the result of varying media situations, different attitudes to public obituaries etc, not necessarily an indication of where Kyiv prefers to grab its cannon fodder. But, it could be the latter too... Saving on the pure Lvovan ubermenschen. Wouldn't put it past them.

    By the way, anyone with Telegram access right now (I don't have it on this phone) that could check on this channel and perhaps find at what date they published this rundown?
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    Post  limb Mon Dec 12, 2022 4:12 pm

    Instead of having a pretty map without sources, that channel couldve made a database of ukrainian obituaries.

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    Post  flamming_python Mon Dec 12, 2022 4:17 pm

    I don't mean the people on the ground.

    The higher ups however, all the way to Zelensky's cocaine den surely know what's going on, and have the power to stop it. Technically, anyway.

    But as it stands, the collective west and the local far-right nutters has the entire Ukrainian chain of command by the balls. Zelensky is like a low-level grunt "just following orders" at this stage. That's the bizarre thing. Nobody can step out of it and keep their lives, unfortunately. It's just an unholy spiral now, self-reinforcing itself to hell. But that's the design they came up with and all agreed to, I guess.

    They're determined to grind this shit to the ground, all in the hopes of MAYBE giving Russia an annoying little bruise, at the expense of any and all Ukrainians that can be coerced into grabbing a gun and running into the grinder.

    Sickening is what it is.

    None of it had to happen, had Kiev agreed to some very reasonable, actually quite obvious conditions, eg Minsk II for starters. But Bandera scum wouldn't allow it to happen, the U.S. certainly did not want it to happen, and even that old hag Merkel admitted just the other day that Minsk II was a ruse to buy time for the inevitable confrontation. Poroshenko and his cronies made that abundantly clear before in many of their domestic addresses too, but you know how it goes, it's not there if western media decides not to write about it.

    Blah blah blah. All of this is old news to most of you, I reckon.

    Just felt the need to mention how stupid it is, mostly so for "Ukraine".

    The same Ukrainian elite has run their country into the ground over the last 30 years

    Along with a couple of African countries, it was one of the very few in the world to have actually witnessed a GDP decrease as compared to 1990. And yes this applies to before this war.

    The fact that the first war broke out in 2014 was also a result of the same elite's and coupists decisions. It could have been avoided likewise.

    Given that, on what basis exactly would this same elite have suddenly developed some good judgement and avoided the war that broke out this year? They didn't, every decision they made went towards provoking exactly such a clusterfuck. This is par for the course given their record as I've mentioned.

    And General Armaggedon is a cruel mofo.
    First he deprived the Ukrainian population of power and other vital infrastructure.
    Then he organized a meat-grinder in Bakhmut.
    Next thing he'll probably move on Kiev knowing that Zaluzhny and Zelensky will sacrifice the rest of their men to Russian artillery there too.
    If the Ukrs threaten to blow the dam north of Kiev again and flood the city - he will probably call them out on it and dare them to do so. Guy doesn't give 2 damns.

    Yes ideally someone in the Ukrainian leadership will act to stop the war and ask for parley; but in practice we know it won't happen. Each of those worms in that same elite is more interested in preserving their own assets, most of which are in Europe, than in sparing their people the conclusion of the shitstorm that they themselves have organized

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    Post  Dr.Snufflebug Mon Dec 12, 2022 4:20 pm

    limb wrote:Instead of having a pretty map without sources, that channel couldve made a database of ukrainian obituaries.

    That's exactly what I said the first time these guys popped up weeks ago, and why I mentioned it as a caveat now.

    I mean, the numbers aren't implausible, but it'd be nice to examine the methodology. If it's some kind of "Lost Armour" type of community, I can buy it. If it's the "Oryx" style, then I'll pass.

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    Post  Regular Mon Dec 12, 2022 4:33 pm

    Ukrainian losses map looks like a dud to me, I am pretty sure Russia knows rough estimates, not by counting reports, but simply from HUMIT.

    Counting obituaries is silly. Not all deaths are published. Most of these are suppressed or are only done locally without ending up in newspapers or online. I am talking about people from countryside who make up large number of troops, they have funerals without social media posts or any newspaper obituaries. 90K+ deaths on obituaries alone would give Ukraine what, 500k+ casualties? (WIA/MIA/unreported KIAs)

    Also that TG channel doesn’t link to sources or anything. It just came up with this after EU basically admitted 100k dead Ukrainian soldiers. Work to count all of this would be gargantuan and even lostarmour is backlogged counting destroyed equipment and they are open source

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