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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33

    Hole
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    Post  Hole Mon Nov 28, 2022 7:22 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33 - Page 22 Fiqwlm10
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33 - Page 22 Fird2i10
    In Moscow
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33 - Page 22 Firfrq10
    So the points for "Ukrainians" to charge their phones and warm up are... out of electricity.  Very Happy

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    Post  ucmvulcan Mon Nov 28, 2022 8:39 pm

    Nope, Z puppet was known as Vladimir until the western press started the war whoring late last year. Kiev has only been Kyiv since approximately 2013 in the New York Times.

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    Post  Hole Mon Nov 28, 2022 9:07 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33 - Page 22 Fird9j10
    Current air raid map

    Arrivals in Dnjepropetrovsk

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33 - Page 22 Firqdw10
    ZZ Top world tour coming soon  Very Happy
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33 - Page 22 Scree508
    Ukros using M101 gun. Next stop: catapults

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    Post  Hole Mon Nov 28, 2022 9:25 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33 - Page 22 Firmu810
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33 - Page 22 Firmu811
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33 - Page 22 Firmu812

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    Post  Podlodka77 Mon Nov 28, 2022 11:34 pm

    Regarding western weapon systems I have the following opinion; If Germany had a military budget like the US, it would have by far the most modern armed forces. Germans are number 1 in the West.
    The US and the UK have credibility as far as weapons systems are concerned, of course, while France is best off sticking to what it does best - perfume production. dunno

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    Post  ucmvulcan Tue Nov 29, 2022 12:10 am

    On the subject of western weapons, they serve only two purposes:

    1. Fraud, the Pentagon has failed its past five audits and it doesn't often get audited because to do so is political suicide. Oh sure, research and development can get expensive especially for say the B-2, B-1b, M1A1/2, but since at least World War Two (when Harry Truman made a name for himself by having the nose to sniff out a good scam [getting into the senate with the help of a Kansas City political/crime boss really helped him know a good con when he saw one] and to his credit he at least tried to stop the con game in regards to war profiteering), America's elected and appointed officials have seen war as a cash cow and a lucrative racket instead of a necessary evil. Now to be fair, sometimes we still have politicians that say holy hell that's a scam, to his credit the late John McCain [no don't block me, his and Lindsey Graham's vitriol against Russia has always been disgusting] called out the F-35 program as a scam. Sadly, the F-35 is only one of multiple scams going on, the Osprey, the all wheel fighting vehicle Rumsfeld wanted, and the protection rackets such as NATO . Yeah, quite sadly weapons development and "defense" is so expensive in the west because in addition to the oligarchs pocketing the profits at the expense of peace and their soldiers' lives, the politicians and generals get theirs. I do love when I read reports of corruption in the Russian defense industry in American newspapers, websites, and television networks owned by the same companies that are heavily invested in the US MIC. Damn, there sure is a hell of a lot of projection in those reports.

    2. Sometimes these weapons are actually used by the US or its proxies in combat. In these wars if they are to be used by a client state its to make the MIC and the political and military hierarchy money. If they are used by the United States or say NATO in combat? Well American weapons are meant for low intensity wars against developing nations or industrial nations whose combat capabilities have been degraded for years by sanctions, bombing and destruction of infrastructure and military installations, or in the case of Iraq a decade of devestating and ineffective war vs Iran. In other words, they are to help US troops do whatever the hell the pentagon planners call our version of combined arms warfare that the Russians and Soviets called deep battle. I used to know, maybe its a good excuse to read Glantz again, actually it is. Its always good reason to read Glantz. ANyways, US weaponry is for short wars where to borrow from Borrell's racist behind the gardener states invade the jungle. So they were very effective in the invasion and combat stage of Iraq (both times), to some success in Vietnam (the US could hold the field of battle) but in both cases and in Afghanistan (where again the US beat the Taliban in the field but could not occupy the country) they could not win long term slogs. The US always hopes for short wars of instant gratification where they control the skies, where they control space, where the enemy's C3 (command and control, communication, and coordination) is gone, where airpower can destroy any remaining enemy armor and mechanized forces quickly. The reason "stormin" Norman Schwarzkopf causes US warhawks to cream themselves is because he did the perfect ground war as far as the US is concerned. In and out in less than a week. In Iraq II we all saw that while the US could take the whole of Iraq in less than a month, it could not win the occupation and in fact as the war and occupation dragged on endlessly the casualties and losses of equipment that used to be wonderwaffle status including the Abrams mounted.

    So yes, if America fights the type of war it wants to fight, very swift war of destruction and often in complete and utter disregard of international law, against vastly inferior opponents then its weapons are very good. However, as we have seen time and again from Korea, to Vietnam, to the Occupation of Iraq, to Afhganistan, to Syria, and Ukraine its weapons are not meant for long attritional slogs and if you take away the American way of war, air supremacy, destroyed enemy armor, destroyed C3, etc then its weapons are very expensive paperweights and as Ukraine is increasingly finding out, quite useless except for minor attacks on airbases and mass terror bombings of cities and civilians.

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    Post  thegopnik Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:03 am

    love creativity on the battlefield.





    Last edited by thegopnik on Tue Nov 29, 2022 2:20 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  diabetus Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:38 am

    Yeah. Not going to hold my breath for 170km howitzer rounds or 200km MLRS rounds.
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    Post  thegopnik Tue Nov 29, 2022 2:20 am

    wont hold my breath either for a 150km glide bomb launch.

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    Post  GarryB Tue Nov 29, 2022 3:48 am

    Coming soon to Ukraine. Please tell me how this is also a useless waste of money and inferior to unguided rockets.

    That promise of new western fighter jets is proven BS by this system, which is fitting a bomb to a rocket... big deal... the Russian air defence systems that shoot down HIMARS rockets will shoot down this bomb too...

    But of course it will be a game changer because Russia has never had a missile that can deliver a warhead the size of an aircraft delivered bomb... the fact that Smerch rockets deliver 250kg HE warheads means nothing and the 650kg warhead weight of Iskander is made up right?

    No you don't, it will be fired from Himars or MLRS. It's a ground launched SDB. ~150km range.

    It has that range with a 90kg warhead... how much does a SDB weigh? about 130kgs... so probably less than 150km range.

    Some Polish military on "vacation" in Ukraine:

    What tough guys... burning books... hope they freeze.

    Nobody here claims that guided munitions are useless or inferior to unguided projectiles. Guided munitions are very good at hitting single targets with precision, but that doesn't negate the need for unguided munitions on the battlefield, which remain very effective at engaging concentrations of infantry and light vehicles in open terrain or light cover.

    The amazing new western concept of swarm technology was used during WWI and colonial wars when enormous numbers of enemy rushed defences in the hope of overwhelming them with numbers... artillery and machine guns made such rushes horrendously costly in terms of men, but the point is that 20 men with 20 rifles aiming and shooting at individual targets can't deal with thousands of men attacking at once who are also shooting back.

    Guided weapons require something to find targets and monitor the attack and determine if it was a success and then find a new target... the Orcs don't have that... the Russians don't have that either, but they don't need that.

    Yeah. Not going to hold my breath for 170km howitzer rounds or 200km MLRS rounds.

    The USAF will fight having its bombs delivered by a cheap ballistic rocket... it is unamerican...

    And even if they decide to go ahead with it, they need to actually make it first... whereas the Russians have been moving toward extended range guided artillery for quite some time now.

    I rather suspect they will get extra support from their likely to increase Navy budget because a 170km range guided 152mm round would be useful at sea... in fact it would be better than modern western frigates.

    170km is not a huge range but a Harpoon or Exocet can hardly reach a lot further and being able to fire guided 40kg HE rounds at 60 plus rounds a minute from a 152mm gun mount would be devastating to most targets... for example a British destroyer with 48 SAMs to defend itself with a 120km range and 8 subsonic anti ship missiles to attack with... fitting a 152mm gun to an upgraded Sovremmeny class ship with the front and rear mounted BUK SAM replaced with a 32 cell Shtil front and a 32 cell Shtil rear plus a few Pantsir systems.... the 152mm gun could open fire on the british ship at 130km range so the 48 missiles would be used up in less than a minute shooting down artillery shells... the 64 Shtil missiles are Vikings and very capable missiles even if they only reach about 70km they would easily defeat 8 subsonic anti ship missiles without raising a sweat. The ship itself could carry 500 shells or more.... it could take on several british destroyers with simple upgrades.

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    Post  ALAMO Tue Nov 29, 2022 5:54 am

    170km is not a huge range but a Harpoon or Exocet can hardly reach a lot further and being able to fire guided 40kg HE rounds at 60 plus rounds a minute from a 152mm gun mount would be devastating to most targets... for example a British destroyer with 48 SAMs to defend itself with a 120km range and 8 subsonic anti ship missiles to attack with... fitting a 152mm gun to an upgraded Sovremmeny class ship with the front and rear mounted BUK SAM replaced with a 32 cell Shtil front and a 32 cell Shtil rear plus a few Pantsir systems.... the 152mm gun could open fire on the british ship at 130km range so the 48 missiles would be used up in less than a minute shooting down artillery shells... the 64 Shtil missiles are Vikings and very capable missiles even if they only reach about 70km they would easily defeat 8 subsonic anti ship missiles without raising a sweat. The ship itself could carry 500 shells or more.... it could take on several british destroyers with simple upgrades.

    You should wake up and smell the coffee bud.
    Sovs are done. Only Nastoychivy, Bystry and Ushakov are left.
    Those didn't have luck, that's all.
    Its boilers required skilled operating and regular maintenance - both hardly accessible for the whole 90s/00s.
    Worn out much faster than should have, so the whole thing was being kept operational by cannibalism. New options became available when most of those has been already moored, scrapped or stripped of everything to keep the remaining floating. While the ones lucky enough to be donated with organs were being worn out at increased speed, as the Russian Navy lacked ocean-going ships.
    A sad picture of a ship sunken at the pier is the fate of this class.
    That could have been avoided, the Chinese giving the best example of operating all their Sovs without much issue.
    Just a lack of luck.

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    Podlodka77
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    Post  Podlodka77 Tue Nov 29, 2022 6:42 am



    Something about Navykorabel.ru; that blog reported in April that "Nastoychhivy" was decommissioned and then in the last posts that ship was RESURRECTED. Take information from such pages with a grain of salt, because until there is an official confirmation of the ship's decommissioning - it hasn't even happened. The same applies to the submarine K-84 "Ekaterinburg" because the Russians did announce that by the end of 2022 that submarine will be decommissioned, and Navykorabel.ru hastened to write it off. This has not officially happened and therefore a formal certificate should be waiting because Russians are transparent when the ship is withdrawn from use.
    In the last post, I made a mistake and wrote "Ushakov" because I knew that Navykorabel.ru made a mistake about some ship of project 956 Sarych - I just got the name of the ship wrong.
    Navykorabel.ru in April this year..

    https://navy-korabel.livejournal.com/261343.html

    Navykorabel.ru in November this year...

    https://navy-korabel.livejournal.com/278771.html

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    Post  ALAMO Tue Nov 29, 2022 7:24 am

    The case with Ushakov is that it should be in satisfying shape - it went through mid life repair and returned to the ranks in 2004. Only to get broken in 2018, and put in reserve. Was intended for scrapping, but Izvestia reported that the Navy command change its mind and it should have been repaired. First, 2021 was the date of its rollout, but I have not followed this saga later on - so no idea if they did or not.

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    Post  Podlodka77 Tue Nov 29, 2022 7:46 am

    To Alamo  thumbsup

    The destroyer "Admiral Ushakov" was overhauled in Zvezdochka and after the overhaul was returned to active service.
    Info from July
    Russian MOD

    22.07.2022 (23:00)
    The destroyer "Admiral Ushakov" went to sea to work out the planned tasks of combat training

    Today, the crew of the destroyer Admiral Ushakov of the Northern Fleet carried out a complex of artillery firing at sea targets in the Barents Sea.

    The firing involved the crews of the AK-130 and AK-630 artillery systems according to the scheme of artillery combat with a mock enemy surface ship, hitting fast-moving small targets and floating sea mines.

    Today, the destroyer "Admiral Ushakov" entered the combat training ranges of the Northern Fleet in the Barents Sea as part of the planned development of a set of tasks of the combat training course.

    Within a few days, the destroyer's crew will have to check the functioning of general ship systems, radio equipment, communications equipment, and work out elements of the actions of a single ship in organizing anti-submarine and air defense at sea.

    The launch of the destroyer "Admiral Ushakov" was preceded by comprehensive training of the ship's crew in the base. Sailors from the North Sea practiced actions to prepare the ship for battle and cruise, for shooting from anchor, carried out air defense measures, damage control in parking conditions, practiced actions in conditions of chemical, bacteriological and radiation contamination, as well as conducting anti-sabotage defense in an unprotected roadstead.

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjMxeWf8NL7AhUTgv0HHTf6AXMQFnoECAwQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Ffunction.mil.ru%2Fnews_page%2Fcountry%2Fmore.htm%3Fid%3D12430238%40egNews&usg=AOvVaw1xgaOh_4uI9iObBHhT_Iyt

    And a month later follows the link which I transferred in Udaloy (Project; 1155 "Fregat") and Sovremeny (Project; 956 "Sarych") section in August...I can't stand NATO markings on Russian weapons.
    Info from August

    https://vpk.name/news/625807_eskadrennyi_minonosec_admiral_ushakov_porazil_uslovnogo_protivnika_krylatoi_raketoi_v_barencevom_more.html

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    Post  Podlodka77 Tue Nov 29, 2022 8:08 am

    10:45 11/29/2022 (updated: 10:46 11/29/2022)
    РИА Новости

    Pushilin announced the imminent liberation of Ugledar
    Acting head of the DPR Pushilin said that Ugledar will be liberated "very soon"

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33 - Page 22 18031711


    MOSCOW, November 29 - RIA Novosti. Acting head of the DPR Denis Pushilin said that Ugledar would be liberated "very soon".
    "An important direction is Ugledarskoe. The enemy is trying, at night there were certain attempts to counterattack in the direction of Pavlovka. For the enemy, this was a painful loss of a settlement, positions. But we have an absolutely clear understanding of the need to complete tasks. Ugledar will also be liberated very soon," Pushilin said. on air "Soloviev Live".
    He stressed that the release of Ugledar opens up the possibility of reaching Kramatorsk and Slavyansk.

    https://ria.ru/20221129/ugledar-1834947812.html

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    Post  Walther von Oldenburg Tue Nov 29, 2022 9:16 am

    🇺🇦 According to Ukrainian sources, Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine Valery Zaluzhny reported to Zelensky that the situation for the units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in Bakhmut is deteriorating every day.

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    Post  Hole Tue Nov 29, 2022 11:22 am

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33 - Page 22 Fiuaey10
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33 - Page 22 Fiuaow10
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33 - Page 22 Fiuovt10

    Didn´t know this:

    Articles 106 and 107 of the UN Charter give Russia, as the legal successor to the victor of World War II,
    the right to take any action, including military ones, against Germany, Hungary, Austria, Romania, Bulgaria,
    Finland, Croatia, Slovenia, Czech Republic, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania and Ukraine for attempts to revive Nazism.

    UN Secretary-General António Guterres was surprised to learn from Putin that there is an article in the UN charter
    that allows a Russian special operation to be carried out in Ukraine.

    RUSSIA HAS THE RIGHT TO PUNISH NAZIS ANYWHERE (according to UN Charter)

    The Nuremberg Tribunal sentenced to criminal liability all those who fought against the UN and committed genocide.
    The greatest genocide was committed against the Soviet people. UN Charter, Articles 106 and 107, gives the victors of World War II -
    the USSR, USA, Great Britain and China - the right to take action against the countries that fought against them to prevent actions that
    aim to revise the results of the Second World War. In particular, the use of military force against these countries is permitted. To do this,
    you only need to NOTIFY the other three winning countries, but not get their consent. Russia, as the LEGAL successor to the USSR, can
    also use force against states that want to overhaul the Yalta-Potsdam system in Europe. Russia can stop attempts to revive Nazism in
    Germany, Hungary, Romania, Austria, Bulgaria, Finland, Croatia, Slovenia and the Czech Republic, which acted as the protectorate of
    Bohemia and Moravia during the war.

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    Post  Erk Tue Nov 29, 2022 11:34 am

    United Nations Charter, Chapter XVII:
    Transitional Security Arrangements
    Article 106

    Pending the coming into force of such special agreements referred to in Article 43 as in the opinion of the Security Council enable it to begin the exercise of its responsibilities under Article 42, the parties to the Four-Nation Declaration, signed at Moscow, 30 October 1943, and France, shall, in accordance with the provisions of paragraph 5 of that Declaration, consult with one another and as occasion requires with other Members of the United Nations with a view to such joint action on behalf of the Organization as may be necessary for the purpose of maintaining international peace and security.
    Article 107

    Nothing in the present Charter shall invalidate or preclude action, in relation to any state which during the Second World War has been an enemy of any signatory to the present Charter, taken or authorized as a result of that war by the Governments having responsibility for such action.

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    Post  Hole Tue Nov 29, 2022 11:48 am

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33 - Page 22 Fiub3v10
    Current situation
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33 - Page 22 Fiunmj10
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33 - Page 22 Fiunmj11
    Trucks are getting bombed.

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    Post  ALAMO Tue Nov 29, 2022 12:05 pm

    Ukr are using a civilian transportation fleets for supply.
    Logistic hubs are changed to military warehouses.
    And truck repair stations are being used for repairing military equipment.
    All legitimate military targets, that can be used for propaganda how the evil Russkies are targeting civilian infrastructure later.
    A win-win situation from Ukro perspective.

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    Post  Arrow Tue Nov 29, 2022 12:23 pm

    Didn´t know this: wrote:

    But this is probably old T62 Neutral
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    Post  Podlodka77 Tue Nov 29, 2022 12:55 pm

     Arrow Today at 1:23 pm

    ARROW, I LIVE for the day that the West finally decides and sends its military equipment to Ukroshitstan because I know the Russians would destroy it.
    I live for the day when the French retard will finally be convinced that the world's perfume power is as incompetent as it has been for 80+ years.
    I live to watch hundreds of wrecked Leopard 2s and Abrams tanks, downed AH-64s, F-15s/ 16/18, because it's just fucking military equipment that would finally experience either a debacle or would prove to be only equal to the Russian one.

    I want the Russians to demolish the LIES on which they (Western society) have been living for decades and the MYTHS of superiority.
    Believe me, precisely because of what I wrote now, they will NOT decide to send their tanks and planes.
    Therefore, the T-62 is good - trust me... thumbsup


    Last edited by Podlodka77 on Tue Nov 29, 2022 2:01 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  Erk Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:06 pm

    Hole wrote:

    Trucks are getting bombed.

    Why is the name on the truck in English?
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    Post  Dr.Snufflebug Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:20 pm

    Erk wrote:Why is the name on the truck in English?

    Not particularly unusual anywhere to have a cool English name for a company. Truck's got Ukrainian plates, a Renault Premium '06 registered in 2014 in Dnepropetrovsk, and there's a company with that name registered in Kiev (address points to a post box, also common, just sounds cooler to have an "address" in the capital).

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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33 - Page 22 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33

    Post  Dr.Snufflebug Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:42 pm

    Apparently the much vaunted "points of invincibility" that were supposed to showcase Ukrainian defiance and help people with electricity, internet, water, heat and so on are a total shitshow.

    Loads of them lack generators (enterprising Ukrainians have sold many off to make a quick buck before bailing the country, I've seen, probably related), even in Kiev itself. The ones that have generators are constantly running out of fuel. Outside of the capital, these "points" are most often just tents with a portable woodstove in them.

    Three people in the Kharkov region just died of carbon monoxide poisoning in a poorly ventilated "point of invinicibility"-tent...

    I mean, I feel sorry for them. None of this should have happened to begin with, but alas.

    Meanwhile, it seems UA suffered substantial losses in the Bakhmut area and began to retreat, but there is a considerable lag in the information from there (like 24 hours or so), so the current state of affairs is unclear.

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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33 - Page 22 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33

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