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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33

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    ALAMO


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    Post  ALAMO Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:59 am

    Post  Hole Yesterday at 10:12 pm
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33 - Page 11 Firg2a10
    Building was sucessfully intercepted by NASAM


    This damage is too big to be caused by a relatively small AIM-120 warhead.
    I suppose that they intercepted something, and that is an aftermath of debris falling.


    Last edited by ALAMO on Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:59 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:59 am

    Funny seeing people who claimed russia will take this city and that city AND that they should (Pod) change their tune once it's clear they aren't....THEN attacking people for calling out their hypocrisy honestly, its a comedy show here.

    Also funny seeing people who claimed the Kherson retreat was a trap and yet not attack came, which shows Russia left the city because its supply lines were hampered (Russian MOD own words) and because they couldn't defend it against Ukraine with massive losses which means yes Ukraine forced Russia out. Those same people still act like that ain't the case.

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    Post  Podlodka77 Thu Nov 24, 2022 9:18 am

    SEIG, a calf cannot be saddled and nothing can be explained to you either.
    For me, you are a Ukroshistan fanboy from the very beginning.
    What I thought at the very beginning of SMO is not important because what is important is that the Russians have never officially given any hint that they want to go in the direction of those cities. SEIG,
    I will be cultured and write you in code that you are a piece of **** and that there is no need for you to talk to me.

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    Post  Werewolf Thu Nov 24, 2022 9:42 am

    @Serberus, I find it always fascinating how some users are so focused on what other users predict on this forum or any other forum. They are just as normal people like you and me with not secret intel and everyone is just making guesses. I would love the persistent nagging from users like you towards official faces who actually are making claims based on closed intel.

    Did you expect to have some informant on this forum telling us some highly confidential stuff? Laughing

    If we dig through every post by every user on this forum we will find enough posts that never happened or were just wrong.

    There are a 1000 way to Rome and at least half dozen approaches how to finish Kiev, however, 404 is not Poland nor any other country where Russia could unleash it's entire arsenal if it wanted to. There are certain restrictions and RoE due to the nature of being it's own country and people, thus Russia has to operate with it's head and not with emotions.

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    Post  Firebird Thu Nov 24, 2022 10:03 am

    @Podolka77

    People are leaving Kharkov, Odessa etc because there is a war on.
    Not because they dont want to be part of Russia.
    And Russia HAS made comments about these places being in Russia.
    Kharkov was one of the first places targeted for liberation.
    Odessa is harder because of logistics right now.
    Infact about 15 oblasts were mentioned as having pro Ru sentiment in March this year.

    As for Lvov etc, who gives a **** if they are happy or not.
    Demilitarise, jail/execute the criminals. Install a strong man in those shitholes and let the remaining fuckers go toilet cleaning and cocksucking in the EU.

    Russia tried "free independent brotherly states". Didn't work. Thats why places are joining Russia. And why a strongman in the West and maybe Malorossia wll be required to counter the ultra strongman destruction that occurred vs the Pukraine's piss poor political system.

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    ALAMO


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    Post  ALAMO Thu Nov 24, 2022 10:14 am

    Some of you folks are helpless cases indeed. dunno

    You are making your own assumptions. Based on your own knowledge. And driving with your own agenda.
    Later, you are trying to judge the Russkie's actions and give them notes for fulfilling your plan.
    Gee!
    That's brilliant!
    Laughing Laughing Laughing
    Maybe, by accident, they don't run according to your checklist, because of having different assumptions, different knowledge, and a different agenda.
    Laughing Laughing Laughing

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    Podlodka77
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    Post  Podlodka77 Thu Nov 24, 2022 10:20 am

    Firebird Today at 10:03 am

    Firebird, its podlodka or shortened from podvodnaya lodka for submarine.  Very Happy  
    I don't know about those cities, but the fact is that Russia never gave a hint that it would go in the direction of those cities. Does Russia have to give us forum members such a hint? Of course not.  Very Happy
    Yes, right now people are leaving cities because because there are fights in those cities or are close to becoming a theater of combat.
    For Russia, the real spade was obviously only Crimea, while the story of DNR and LNR came much later.
    I am sure that the Russians want a land corridor to Crimea, and that they will return to Kherson - whether through negotiations or military conflict.
    The city of Zaporozhye must fall because it is the center of the Zaporozhye region, just as the rest of the DNR must be cleared. I'm not sure about everything else and everything else is just speculation.
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    Post  Werewolf Thu Nov 24, 2022 10:25 am

    @Alamo, lets be real, if half the arms chair generals here would not **** up the entire operation if they were in charge I would be really surprised.

    The approaches people here have would have already turned Russia's population against it's own leadership.

    One suggest to FOAB or nuke cities, the other suggest to Blitzkrieg to Polish border, some else suggest to orchestrate chemical/biological disaster by destroying chemical plants.

    We don't know the causalities of civilians compared versus the military, however, the rhetoric in 404 and ze West is Russia is genociding 404nians. But we have a lack of visual footage to see or even suggest that there many civilians getting killed. Most pictures here in Scholzistan are pictures of civilian buildings that have been proven to be hit by 404 PVO missiles with mostly superficial damage and claim it's Iskander.

    I don't even know where most this arms chair generals like SeigHeil, limb diq, UkroArky, Vann7 and his sleeping cells and others have the confidence or knowledge to understand and know how to wage and win wars in most favorable outcome.

    Would be interesting to hear their military career to understand what kind of authority they have on such matters.

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    Post  ALAMO Thu Nov 24, 2022 10:29 am

    Because that is all their goal.
    Russia can't be defeated on the battlefield.
    It can only collapse from inside, with the help of the 5th column, traitors and assholes.
    And this is what our doomers team doing daily basis.
    Aside of the multiple boots accounts activated to spoil the threads and minds with "just asking question" thing.

    Post Podlodka77 Today at 10:20 am
    Firebird, its podlodka or shortened from podvodnaya lodka for submarine. Very Happy
    I don't know about those cities, but the fact is that Russia never gave a hint that it would go in the direction of those cities. Does Russia have to give us forum members such a hint? Of course not. Very Happy
    Yes, right now people are leaving cities because because there are fights in those cities or are close to becoming a theater of combat.
    For Russia, the real spade was obviously only Crimea, while the story of DNR and LNR came much later.
    I am sure that the Russians want a land corridor to Crimea, and that they will return to Kherson - whether through negotiations or military conflict.
    The city of Zaporozhye must fall because it is the center of the Zaporozhye region, just as the rest of the DNR must be cleared. I'm not sure about everything else and everything else is just speculation.


    The very best start to consider Russkie attitude and goals would be the facts what they have pushed for the last 8 years.
    And any warmonger here, or field marshall second to the Kutuzov only would have been quite shocked.
    If only STFU for a moment and care to educate.
    Russian agenda was to keep the territorial integrity of the Ukraine till the very end.
    Sure, some speculate that the general goal was to have the long lasting influence for Ukro internal matters and a jumpboard to inflict unrests if needed.
    But hey, isn't that exactly what the EU was doing?
    And the US was doing?
    As two separated entities?!?


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    Post  flamming_python Thu Nov 24, 2022 10:40 am

    Also funny seeing people who claimed the Kherson retreat was a trap and yet not attack came, which shows Russia left the city because its supply lines were hampered (Russian MOD own words) and because they couldn't defend it against Ukraine with massive losses which means yes Ukraine forced Russia out. Those same people still act like that ain't the case.

    The Ukraine didn't force Russia out and Russia in fact had no problem repelling every Ukrainian offensive along the Kherson-Nikolayev borderline over the past 6 months.

    Why Russia withdrew, well perhaps supplying the civilian population became a problem, or it was worried about the damn bursting, or it anticipated the Ukrainians and NATO gathering more forces in the future for an assault on Kherson. We don't know.
    However the Ukrainians are taking attritional damage in the Kherson region constantly, and they have announced evacuations of their own. Perhaps over the dam/flooding issue.

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    Post  ALAMO Thu Nov 24, 2022 11:23 am

    The Ukrs demanded civilians to evacuate in the first place.
    This is a face of glorious victory.

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    Post  Podlodka77 Thu Nov 24, 2022 11:28 am

    ALAMO, you are right - the French is a lost cause...
    ISOS cannot bear that France does not even have a mockup of a fifth-generation aircraft, so it attributes the characteristics of a fifth-generation aircraft to the Rafale aircraft. Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
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    Post  limb Thu Nov 24, 2022 12:18 pm

    The Ukraine didn't force Russia out and Russia in fact had no problem repelling every Ukrainian offensive along the Kherson-Nikolayev borderline over the past 6 months.

    Why Russia withdrew

    The USSR didn't force Germany out and germany in fact had no problem repelling every sovidt offensive along the Rzhev salient over the past 6 months.
    Hitler was scared about civilian deaths. Thats why germans withdrew.

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    Post  Isos Thu Nov 24, 2022 12:30 pm

    Undated and unkown location but probably in ukraine.

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33 - Page 12 Fiupt910
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    Post  Isos Thu Nov 24, 2022 12:33 pm

    Launch of r-37M. They blured the range scale this time.

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    Post  AlfaT8 Thu Nov 24, 2022 1:05 pm

    Blurring things out doesnt work anymore.
    We have de-blur technolegy now, they should have blacked it out completely.

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    Post  flamming_python Thu Nov 24, 2022 1:21 pm

    The USSR didn't force Germany out and germany in fact had no problem repelling every sovidt offensive along the Rzhev salient over the past 6 months.
    Hitler was scared about civilian deaths. Thats why germans withdrew.

    Was a sort of similar meatgrinder for the Ukrainians that Rzhev was for the Soviets, now that you've made the comparison

    But no, there was no Ukrainian offensive that overwhelmed Russian forces north of Kherson. Apparently the withdrawal orders had already been issued some time before, the Ukrainians attacked in Kherson when the withdrawal was already underway, but unlike in the Kharkov region they didn't score any kind of breakthrough, and the Russians were able to get across the river in good order.

    Should every abandonment of territory by the Russians be viewed as them being defeated and beaten back, on account of the Ukrs flooding in troops to take control of the region after them?
    That's nonsense.

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    Post  ALAMO Thu Nov 24, 2022 1:26 pm

    You mean that there were no Russian riot police units to be heroically overrun with 30:1 ratio by the mighty Ukrowehrmacht ? Laughing

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    Post  limb Thu Nov 24, 2022 1:28 pm

    Was a sort of similar meatgrinder for the Ukrainians that Rzhev was for the Soviets, now that you've made the comparison

    Both the soviets and now the ukrainians ultimately achieved their objective successfully.

    Should every abandonment of territory by the Russians be viewed as them being defeated and beaten back, on account of the Ukrs flooding in troops to take control of the region after them?
    That's nonsense.
    Germans widthrawing from Rzhev was considered by al possible logic to be a defeat due to being beaten back or preveted from successfully defending on other fronts, not a "successful regrouping".

    After rzhev was liberated, germans never threatened advancing on moscow again. After kherson fell, any russian advance west of the dniepr is dubious for the time being.
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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33 - Page 12 Empty Interesting post regards Russian artillery from Vladlen

    Post  Regular Thu Nov 24, 2022 1:33 pm

    Vladlen Tatarsky wrote:On Artillery Day, I would like to tell a little about the history of the use of this type of weapon in the Northern Military District. Most of the gunners, before February 24, had no idea how to fight with modern conditions. The experience of Syria does not suit Ukraine at all, and no one has studied the 8-year-old conflict in the Donbass and the evolution of the use of artillery. There were more important things ... No one created new artillery systems either. There are still no systems similar to the "777" and "Caesars". (They will say again that Serdyukov is to blame for everything). On February 24, most of the artillery went into battle with compass and binoculars at hand. The spotter needed to climb a tree or somewhere else and control the fire - there was not enough, and in most cases, there was no UAV. There was nothing like "Nettle" and "Dill" in the Russian Army either. (A commentator should appear here who will say that we had everything, you just don’t know!). Few knew about the existence of Offlinemaps. The program allows any person who knows how to press the touch screen with their fingers to carry out gun aiming. Just put the gun in the direction of the target, X and Y are shown on the map. Raise the copter and adjust by eye: south, north, etc. Everything. (Especially for telephonophobes, I’ll say: buy Chinese, do not insert a SIM card, download the application via Wi-Fi and update the cards in the same way. You will also need a phone with a SIM card - you need to somehow keep in touch). But the students still don't know about it. Mobilized and volunteers come from the training grounds, and there they teach artillerymen as if the SVO had not begun. Maybe two weeks ago I saw a newly formed artillery brigade that arrived from the Russian Federation. There, the commander ordered to send two spotters to the front line, to monitor the work of artillery. One had a Mavic 2 on his shoulder, but they didn't know how to use it. It's just there, so you need to take it with you. "Take everything!" - such an order! They had to unfold the compass and look through binoculars. These two served in the army for a long time, of course, not in the artillery. There is no "offlinemaps", and I had to explain for a long time that "offline" means that the application can work without the Internet. I’m wondering: was their brigade commander really not interested in everything that happened around the last 9 months? What can I say, if in 2019, in the LPR, the "adviser" taught the officers (officers !!!) to adjust the fire on the "snail"! Well, i.e. the level of a boarding school ... Including due to the lack of normal adjustments, our artillery had to release wagons of shells, with which there is now a large shortage. Reconnaissance targets for artillery in 90% of cases are civilian DGI copters, bought by civilians and put into the army by volunteers. WITHOUT THIS HELP, OUR ARMY WOULD HAVE BEEN DESTROYED LONG AGO! We need to remember and be aware of this. How many times I have been in the army, I still have not studied the capabilities of the "Aistenok" and other similar systems. For the most part, no one knows how to use them or, perhaps, they are not effective. I can say one thing for sure: I have never heard at the command post that they received target designation from radar devices. Despite the technical lag behind NATO systems, the Russian gods of war will easily solve the issue with Ukraine if more Orlan-30s are given to the troops to adjust Krasnopol, as well as more UAVs with the ability to fly 30 kilometers. It would be nice to experiment with satellite communications by deploying it at the UAV control center and at the firing line. Through the broadcast in the cart, in the general chat, without any radio exchange, to correct the work of the guns. By the way, telegrams became a formidable weapon of this war. It is in the closed groups of this messenger that artillery officers from different units, but in the same direction, exchange information about the enemy and targets. This helps to organize interaction more efficiently, eliminating unnecessary links. I wrote about such an organization of interaction even before the NVO, but I was convinced that this already exists in the troops and is about to appear everywhere. As usual... To all those involved, once again Happy Holidays!

    https://t.me/vladlentatarsky/17521
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33 - Page 12 5fc87e10

    Seeing how quickly Russia ramped up drone production, I wonder if artillery guys are getting some love as well. Russian artillery seems to be more effective now as there are much more footage of krasnopol and observed artillery fires.


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    Post  ALAMO Thu Nov 24, 2022 1:40 pm

    New post Regular Today at 1:33 pm
    Seeing how quickly Russia ramped up drone production, I wonder if artillery guys are getting some love as well. Russian artillery seems to be more effective now as there are much more footage of krasnopol and observed artillery fires.


    I would put that rather to the basket of publishing more materials.
    They have always been effective.
    Republican art units are skilled for 8 years of antibattery countermeasures. Hardly believe they lack both professionalism and skills, it is impossible.
    Russians have the advantage of having better hardware, not so much tear&wear, but that's all.
    I have spotted that the artillery rounds are in very good shape in general. That applies to tank rounds and unguided S-8 rockets as well. Either brand new or well maintained.
    That is really something new for someone who was used to watching how the republican units had to load rusty Grads or rounds. The fact that they ended up on the Russian military logistics supply is clear.

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    Post  Regular Thu Nov 24, 2022 1:51 pm

    The issue was never quality or quantity, but rather lack of air recon and unnecessary long kill-chains. It’s something that all armies want to improve. As mentioned by Vlad, tools are there and changes are being made. I just hope that updated ratnik battle control system will be rolled out en masse, it is perfect for this. No need for a device, even as an app (with app being restrictive in only for POI marks) as what NATO BCS Ukrainians use. Ukrainians managed to capture few ratnik commander tablets themselves and were shocked by how good they are
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    Post  ALAMO Thu Nov 24, 2022 1:59 pm

    Ukrs had slightly different opinions for the matter.
    Both those who could still talk about that and those whose parts were talking for them, you know ...
    But seriously, Russian artillery is a crucial factor in this war, and sure they get some more attention.
    I can't decide if it is a matter of more saturation with recon tools or some changes in data distribution, or if we just see more materials.
    Ukrs were whining about the russkie artillery since the beginning.
    It is kind like with the Lancets. They have been using them from the beginning either, yet the fact was not so much publicized. No idea why, but was not. And on some day, they have started to air the records of multiple strikes. Tons of them. Showing a mature tactics, objective battle damage control made in a real time, a swarm tactics in use ... I guess it was nothing new, but something worked out in Syria already. They have just decided to present that.

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    Post  zare Thu Nov 24, 2022 2:20 pm

    Hello, let me quickly introduce myself because I have 0 posts and don't want people to think I've suddenly para-dropped on to the forum. I know some members and mods from mp.net/key aero, back from the day (15ish years ago). I've also been involved in site Aviapedia if any of you stumbled to it. Been lurking this forum ever since those mentioned went dodo. My primary interest is not war but hardware.

    I've been following this war day by day since SMO launch, from both sides. Although one side is clearly more down to earth in reporting than the other. (and that's an understatement...)

    The thing is, if you don't comment day by day and especially if you're not so tied to block politics, it's still not clear to me what are the acceptable endgame scenarios for Russia.

    Lets presume even if Ukraine signs off territory (defeat), that they'll keep on training the anti-Russian military forces in their sovereign territory. Even if Russia had supervision there (which is something I guess Ukrainians will never sign), it would still go on. Western money is practically infinite as are their weapons, it's just that they need time. They can't send 100 billion and 1000 tanks to Ukraine today but if you give them 2-3 years they will. That's the problem with adversary such as NATO states. The legitimacy they have at home is based on standard of living. If they dig into that standard with a big shovel, people are going to be pissed. But if they tea spoon resources all the time, they'll still mound a big pile, just over time.

    I mean it's a problem today for USA to hand out 15.000 shells daily, but it won't be a problem tomorrow if they set their minds to it. Let's not kid ourselves these are the people that went to the moon from an underdog position.

    For me the issue is that west public has a quite of slice of people that are hell bent on "defeating Russia". Regardless of Ukraine, both the spirit of nation and the territory, there is no peace after this, it's Cold War 2.0 and even peace in Europe will turn itself into arms race and heavy militarization of everyone involved.

    RF on itself cannot win a prolonged arms/tech race, USSR couldn't. IMO. RF's competitiveness is not only in cheaper labour and materials and cheaper MIC overall, but also in the fact that American cots and EU milspec components were available to them up to ~10 years ago. There is also ever present fact that RF simply doesn't order enough of its own stuff and especially the cutting edge projects. Every other vapourware shit American MIC "pilot project" gets billions and years of funding.

    Regardless how war in Ukraine turns out, heavy times are ahead of Russia. Things are never going to be the same. Chinese-Russian rapport has been largely based on one-sided cutting edge tech transfers. China is developing faster than Russia by definition, so that's not a reason for stable alliance.

    So, some things to possibly consider in analyzing military decisions of today. Every big turnaround in Ukraine projects a new possible geopolitical situation which the powers will have to deal for decades.

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    Post  limb Thu Nov 24, 2022 2:24 pm

    regular wrote:
    https://t.me/vladlentatarsky/17521

    I posted vladlen's criticism a few days ago, and garryB and others immediately called him a prowestern whining troll.

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