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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33

    Podlodka77
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    Post  Podlodka77 Sat Nov 26, 2022 1:03 pm

    And what is the difference between a French howitzer and any other howitzer if it has already been located ? Laughing
    Does that howitzer have a jamming system, missile defense, invisible Jedi ?
    That's one ordinary combat vehicle, you arrogant French infatuator..

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    AMCXXL
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    Post  AMCXXL Sat Nov 26, 2022 1:11 pm

    @flamming_python


    Well despite the attempts at dressing up any development as a premeditated cunning plan, no I don't think what's happening now was part of anyone's intention.

    And I don't know what the Russian political and military leadership calculated what was likely to happen, but evidently they did hope the Ukraine to capitulate quickly, ideally when Russian forces advanced on Kiev. When that failed, they hoped to negotiate a settlement in March/April.

    However Russia was a smart gambler, and did prepare for a long war nevertheless, a long attritional war and a long economic war, and took all necessary steps. And it's this preparation which explains why the West is now 'trapped'. Exactly because the West didn't prepare for that.

    Well, you confuse the development of events on the ground from day to day with the strategic objective of this war.
    Of course, the Kremlin has several alternative plans depending on how the scenario unfolds, another thing is that this or that movement on the ground can be improvised depending on the circumstances.

    Russia did not try to take by siege Kiev or any other city at any time (except Mariupol), for that it would have needed triple the number of troops in February.

    Russia simply sent a last warning to the UKraine oligarchy to negotiate, which it has not done seriously since 2014, but it is clear that this war was designed in Langley for more than three decades ago.

    The Ukrainian oligarchy met in Vilnius in March and Washington prohibited from surrendering or negotiating.
    This means that the wealth base of this oligarchy, which is Donbas and the south-eastern Ukraine, will be destroyed and they will lose their billions and political power

    Even if Ukraine goverment had surrendered in March, the war would not have ended, because Ukraine is not the main theater of the war but NATO / EU
    In addition, Russia's strategic movement in February, attacking from various directions, allowed it to take the southern cities intact and quickly and establish the corridor from Donbass to Crimea that was the first strategic goal of the military operation

    This is a long-term war of attrition, it will not only bankrupt and collapse the Ukrainian state but undermine the EU economy which will cause instability in the NATO countries and prevent a rearmament in Europe

    The negotiations are indeed a theater, neither the Americans are interested in an agreed ending nor are the Russians
    Of course Russia cannot openly declare that she wants to destroy the Ukrainian state, so she pretends to negotiate like the Nazi regime does.

    Even if there was a truce or some kind of pact, it would only be to rearm and continue in a short time, the same thing happened in Yugoslavia, the war lasted throughout the 90s despite apparent "peace agreements" that were false because the intention of Clinton was to totally destroy the Yugoslav state and then do the same with the USSR / CIS

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    lancelot
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    Post  lancelot Sat Nov 26, 2022 1:15 pm

    And what is the difference between a French howitzer and any other howitzer if it has already been located ? Laughing
    Does that howitzer have a jamming system, missile defense, invisible Jedi ?
    That's one ordinary combat vehicle, you arrogant French infatuator..
    HATO cheapened out by putting artillery units into wheeled instead of tracked vehicles. Then they advertise this as "superior" because the roadspeed is higher than in the tracked vehicle. Well, it is superior, on paved roads that is. Something severely lacking in Ukraine. Wheeled trucks for artillery is just a cost cutting exercise simple as that.

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Sat Nov 26, 2022 1:21 pm

    Seems like Cesars are better for hit and run just like HIMARS. Meanwhile videos of Msta-S getting destroyed pop-up every 2nd day on twitter.
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    Post  lancelot Sat Nov 26, 2022 1:23 pm

    Such an exaggeration. Plus if you take into consideration the sheer disparity in numbers between both platforms that is hardly surprising.

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    ALAMO


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    Post  ALAMO Sat Nov 26, 2022 1:30 pm

    I guess they are using them the very same way as the HIMARS - babysitting as it were a strategic missile Laughing Laughing

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Sat Nov 26, 2022 1:30 pm

    Not really. Russia has an advantage in recco equipement and should be tracking all ukro vehicles easily on the frontline.

    They should have bought serbian wheeled howitzers. They are cheap, effective and use 152mm rounds.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Sat Nov 26, 2022 1:32 pm

    I guess they are using them the very same way as the HIMARS - babysitting as it were a strategic missile

    Talk as much as you want. Himars are used very effectively and they are a pain in the ass for the russians.

    Ukro are actually using all their weapons pretty effectively in a situation where they are at disadvantage on all aspects.

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    Podlodka77
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    Post  Podlodka77 Sat Nov 26, 2022 1:33 pm

    Lancelot, a horse can be saddled - a bull very hard. Laughing
    You should have learned by now that Rafale is a black hole in space, that HIMARS or Caesar are very difficult to destroy - it's easier to find a needle in a haystack.. bounce
    It is already clear by now that the gentleman in question wants to INDIRECTLY write to us that one Caesar is worth at least as much as 10 Msta-S howitzers or one Rafale as 10 Su-30 or 5 Su-35S. That's how arrogant the man is... No
    Isos reminds of a Nazi because apparently everything in Russia is "substandard" while everything from the West (especially from France, which has been trampled on for decades) is the best.

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Sat Nov 26, 2022 1:37 pm

    Seems like everything in russia is overestimated.

    Himars and ceasar are very hard to destroy. Not my opinion, it's the reality from the front. Russians can find them and destroy them eventhough they are operated on the front and for mobths now. Not my opinion but just sad reality.

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    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Sat Nov 26, 2022 1:51 pm

    Or they just don't bring them out and fire that often to get plonked.

    Meanwhile Russian guns just keep firing thousands of shells day in day out.

    No wonder the hohols are down 100k dead at least, 400k dead if you include the MIA rotting in the fields.

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    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Sat Nov 26, 2022 2:05 pm

    Dagny Taggart
    @DagnyTaggart963
    ·
    1h
    An explosion occurred in the city of Dnipro, followed by the shutdown of several transformer substations - city mayor Boris Filatov .

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    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Sat Nov 26, 2022 2:17 pm

    Another 'the World revolves around us' statement out of Ukraine.

    Dagny Taggart
    @DagnyTaggart963
    ·
    2h
    The Ukrainian delegation will boycott the work of the OSCE Parliamentary Assembly as long as Russia's representation remains in it. This was stated by a member of the Ukrainian delegation, a deputy from the presidential faction "Servant of the People".

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    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Sat Nov 26, 2022 3:18 pm

    Isos wrote:Seems like Cesars are better for hit and run just like HIMARS. Meanwhile videos of Msta-S getting destroyed pop-up every 2nd day on twitter.

    That doesn't depend on the equipment itself, but how you use it. If you don't want to use it for bombardment then you can use it as the Taliban did mortars in Afghanistan. Hit & run. That will increase the survivability of the systems, but it also removes them from the role of artillery.

    As to the Msta-S, it's in service with both Russia and the Ukraine, and far outnumbers either the handful of Ceasars in the Ukraine (going by official statements), or the HIMARS which aren't present in a considerably larger quantity.

    The Ukrainians are also not going to film their own destroyed vehicles nor the NATO specialists theirs. It's why the only footage are from things like Lancets. Which doesn't mean only Lancets are engaging them.

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    Post  Regular Sat Nov 26, 2022 3:21 pm

    Wheeled platforms are hard to catch, but the weather is not suitable for them.
    I wonder why Russia never had Grads on tracked chassis. Whole Ukraine is MTLB country now.

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    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Sat Nov 26, 2022 4:07 pm

    Because rocket artillery in general have a longer effective range compared to gun artillery.

    When firing at extreme ranges the dispersion is large so you need to fire more munitions to guarantee a hit.

    You also have to fire fast, because after the first round has dropped the troops would seek shelter, disperse, or drive off.

    In practice the SPH batteries are just a few km behind the first echelon, which means they have to have the same mobility as the units they are supporting.

    Rocket Artillery can afford to hang back, pick their terrain to launch from so tactical mobility is not that much of an issue.

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    klahtinen


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    Post  klahtinen Sat Nov 26, 2022 4:35 pm

    The radio news of Sanoma Media (the biggest Finnish media group) told us today that Russia is so desperate it launches old cruise missiles without nuclear or any other warhead to Ukraine. The most Finns even believe that. Luckily my wife understood  rightaway the usage as decoys.

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    sepheronx
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    Post  sepheronx Sat Nov 26, 2022 4:39 pm

    May have to do with the fact Finland is desperately trying to get it's ass painted by nuclear missiles by joining NATO.

    So propaganda is going off the rails.

    That said, sending spent missiles as decoys is a ton cheaper than using training missiles used as targets for AD systems.

    As said a dozen times, this is a war of attrition and the Russians are gonna let Ukraine spend everything the west gives them in an evening. While still also hitting targets.

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    PhSt
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    Post  PhSt Sat Nov 26, 2022 4:41 pm

    Now that most of the power infrastructure in NAZI Pukraine has been vaporized, Russia military needs to divert about 50% of new missile and Geran strikes to food storage and water facilities. Mass starvation needs to be imposed on the NAZI rodents to accelerate Denazification and depopulate Pukraine to aid in the future liberation of these NAZI occupied Russian territories.

    With severe food shortages and an impending starvation the NATzO hosts in Pukraine will have a very difficult choice whether to feed the Pukranian population or its cannon fodders in the front

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    Post  JohninMK Sat Nov 26, 2022 4:43 pm

    Ah, but the HIMARS truck is smaller, lighter, more nimble and can be hidden in more places. but then perhaps it has to be as it is outranged, Mind you L-M are working on the ER version.
    ·
    15h
    The 9M542 rockets are satellite-guided with a max range of 120km and a massive 250 kg warhead. That’s half a Kalibr cruise missile.

    For comparison, the M31 rocket used by the HIMARS has a 90kg warhead and max range of 92 km.

    The difference is in the propaganda.[/i]

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33 - Page 17 FicpPNiXEAAE1Vc?format=jpg&name=small


    Last edited by JohninMK on Sat Nov 26, 2022 4:48 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  Walther von Oldenburg Sat Nov 26, 2022 4:46 pm

    You really are itching for a ban PhSt...

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    PhSt
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    Post  PhSt Sat Nov 26, 2022 4:47 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33 - Page 17 FicpPNiXEAAE1Vc?format=jpg&name=small

    Are these the standard platforms for these missiles? What Tornado designation is this unit? We don't seem to see them often in photos, are these units only built in limited numbers as these are still undergoing trials?
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Sat Nov 26, 2022 4:49 pm

    Every trashy weapons system sent by NATzO to Ukraine has been painted as game changer miracle grade. Since the attention
    span and intellectual engagement of the average NATzO and Ukrainian prole is extremely limited this nonsense keeps going on and
    on. People have to point out the obvious on this board. Nobody has to prove that NATzO trash is trash, it is up to NATzO fabois
    to prove that it isn't and they simply can't.

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    Post  JohninMK Sat Nov 26, 2022 4:49 pm

    PhSt, Why did you specifically duplicate the photo?
    caveat emptor
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    Post  caveat emptor Sat Nov 26, 2022 4:51 pm

    @Isos
    They should have bought serbian wheeled howitzers. They are cheap, effective and use 152mm rounds.

    Unfortunately, NORA self-propelled howitzers would not be a good fit as they have a lot of Western components. Even steel for barrel is coming from Slovenia. We lost a lot of competencies last 30 years.

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