Russian special military operation in Ukraine #32

littlerabbit wrote:
How many people had that Corp?  

Whatever was left from Ljotić followers at the end of 1944. I don't have any idea. They were still same unit, just put under official command of SS. They kept old uniforms and command structure.

Serbia is in a horrific position. I dont blame those feeling anger. But I would say that those in Serbia should realize this existential to the western elites. Same for Russia. Serbia needs to play the game as best they can, but also realize that the west will never allow a sovereign Serbia. You will take in the migrants. You will eat the bugs. You will own nothing and you will be happy.

I dont appreciate sundoesntrise. He is a bootlicker of the child rapists that run the EU and America. Supports those who were involved and are involved in things like the Dutroux affair and franklin coverup. Why? Dunno you are going to have to ask him.if you can tolerate the sauce that comes out of his mouth. Not sure if he is a doomer or a spook.

limb wrote:




Fact 1. While true, the western economy controls 75% ofvthe workds gdp and has a near monopoly on civilian aircraft, semiconductor, ship prpopulsion, pharmaceutical, etc technology. It will kerp tirning a massive profit due to this monopoly.Ukraine aid is a drop in the bucket in terms of US budget.

Ukrainian casaulties arent disproportionate. Theres photos of hundreds of dead Russian soldiers around just artemovsk. Even if they were, they capture territorythat will never be retaken because the Russian army cant afford to take casaulties on the offensive.

Forgot fact 9: putin called the Ukrainians nazis and drug addicts in February, now hes calling them respected partners.

https://twitter.com/Igor_from_Kyiv_/status/1591466299267612678?t=a7hykVb1d0I_9-ncG5zoBQ&s=19

I Agree about the rest.

Western control of the Worlds GDP was 75% 30 years ago but has dropped to 56% presently. Part of the shift going on in the world order.

Rogozin spoke about the supply of modern weapons to the special operation zone

Rogozin announced the supply of modern weapons to the special operation zone in the coming months
DONETSK, November 12 - RIA Novosti. In the coming months, the most modern Russian weapons will begin to enter the zone of a special military operation in Ukraine, Dmitry Rogozin, ex-general director of Roscosmos, said in an interview with RIA Novosti.
“We need to apply the most modern technologies here on the battlefield, just like our enemy does. I know that we are harnessing for a long time, we will go quickly, so we expect that in the coming months the military-industrial complex will supply both the Armed Forces and , respectively, in the people's militia of the LNR and the DNR those weapons systems that will allow them to win," he said.

Earlier on Saturday, he also said that he was leading a group of military advisers "Tsar's Wolves" in the special operation zone, who, together with more than ten developers, are working on the creation of light attack drones for the troops of the DPR and LPR. These drones will be tested right at the front, Rogozin said.

https://ria.ru/20221112/vooruzhenie-1831089681.html


it would be nice not to keep testing drones or another equipment for years anymore ...the only questions is what kind of leverage has Rogozin on MIC? it he "a grey eminence" sent by Putin?

franco wrote:

Western control of the Worlds GDP was 75% 30 years ago but has dropped to 56% presently. Part of the shift going on in the world order.

c'mon Franco, limp is living in pro western mental freeze at best or masturbates in kiev trans clubs every night. The source for my research is  IMF mainly (check wiki or imf directly) . IMF so definitely pro western source so situation can even be worse to de west.




https://www.imf.org/en/Publications/WEO/weo-database/2022/October/weo-report?a=1&c=998,&s=NGDPD,PPPGDP,PPPPC,&sy=2021&ey=2022&ssm=0&scsm=0&scc=0&ssd=1&ssc=0&sic=0&sort=country&ds=.&br=1
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)


World's GDP (est) 2022 is 160,000T


GDP PPP
USA:  25,000T
EU   : 24,000T

Japan: 6000T
Korea  2,200T
UK 3,700


so 60,000T max of worlds 160 000T so its not even fuckin 50% it is  so West GDP share in in 2022, in the whole world is something like 38% at most.  in 10 years is will be much smaller percentagewise


Wakey wakey.  Civilian aircraft not for long? - Russia and China in 10 years will be nice choice for others not licking us dirty sphincter (like some on this forum ) .


This is the last call for colonialist empires to keep their share of "free market" .   With using nazis and their followers.

TMA1 wrote:Serbia is in a horrific position. I dont blame those feeling anger. But I would say that those in Serbia should realize this existential to the western elites. Same for Russia. Serbia needs to play the game as best they can, but also realize that the west will never allow a sovereign Serbia. You will take in the migrants. You will eat the bugs. You will own nothing and you will be happy.

I dont appreciate sundoesntrise. He is a bootlicker of the child rapists that run the EU and America. Supports those who were involved and are involved in things like the Dutroux affair and franklin coverup.  Why? Dunno you are going to have to ask him.if you can tolerate the sauce that comes out of his mouth. Not sure if he is a doomer or a spook.

How did the Midterms go, you Trumptard?

Two scoops of copium in your coffee from now on. For the next 12 months we'll be hearing the impotent kvetching, with the 12 months after that every Trumptard getting riled up again about their next 'opportunity' to 'vote the riggers out'. Lolwhut?!

At some point you deserve it. Have fun getting that D rammed up your ass whilst they openly shit on you because they know you ain't gun do shiet but cry about it online.

OH, back to Serbia. Vucic just openly dumped Russia cause he knows they are a paper tiger and that he can't rely on them. Painful.

sundoesntrise wrote:

up your ass

so where the sun doesn't shine, right?

NOD held a procession for a nuclear apocalypse
The organization of Deputy Yevgeny Fedorov came out under the slogan of attacks by the Sarmatians on Washington and decision-making centers. The audience summed up by the fact that they will go to heaven, and “they” will simply die.

GunshipDemocracy wrote:

sundoesntrise wrote:

up your ass

so where the sun doesn't shine, right?

Russians and those from Belarus and Ukraine, how long does it take for the ground to harden? I have looked at the forecast and the lows are all below 0c/32 F for the next several days. How long does it take for the ground to firm up for offensive operations? I know Archie is of the opinion that its going to invariable be at least 10c/50f for the next three months, but for the the more serious minded, how long does it take for the ground to firm up? Just curious. Garry, please don't relocate because much like economics, atmospherics is important to the renewal of combat operations in the theater. So for those who know what conditions are needed for the ground to firm up please let me know. Thanks guys.

kvs wrote:

franco wrote:

Western control of the Worlds GDP was 75% 30 years ago but has dropped to 56% presently. Part of the shift going on in the world order.

The 56% figure is too high.   In real terms, the western GDP is around a third.   But as we have seen since February 24, it is heavily dependent
on resource inputs.   So if the developing world (aka global south) manages to exert some control over its resource exports, then the west
is royally f*cked.   It seems to be partly f*cked already.  

The above is on topic since economics drives all big wars.   Local ethnic strife does not balloon into world wars.  

Beyond their own GDP how much do they control, through exchanges, payment systems. shipping, ports etc?

limb wrote:It took 9 months to capture some piles of dirt and  wide exposed  trenches manned by 50 year olds terrobobs just armed with rusty AKs. We all hear about muh cyborgs, but most captured and killed Ukrainians around the donetsk airport and peski were grandpas. Plus if they were cyborgs, its still not an excuse. Trenches should be jo use against mass tank fire using ainet airbursting ammo

I guess opytnoe, a village of around 400 people is a good consolation for losing an administrative center with a population of 327000

Losing Kherson is analogous to the gernans losing rzhev in 1943. If telegram existed in 1944, germans would be coping about how they left piles of dead sovidt troops around rzhev and that it was a gesture of good will and tactical regrouping to leave it, meanwhile they would never threaten moscow ever again

There's a slight difference between the German situation in Rzhev 1943 and the Russians in Kherson 2022 by that unlike the Germans, the Russians aren't losing sight of valuable Soviet oil fields at every "goodwill gesture" by moving further back. And similarly to the Germans of 1944, it is not the Russians but the Ukrainians who are losing their industries and energy capacity increasingly at every passing day. And I guess it's common understanding that the flow of weapons and cash towards Ukraine isn't exactly forever.

ucmvulcan wrote:
Russians and those from Belarus and Ukraine, how long does it take for the ground to harden? I have looked at the forecast and the lows are all below 0c/32 F for the next several days.  How long does it take for the ground to firm up for offensive operations? I know Archie is of the opinion that its going to invariable be at least 10c/50f for the next three months, but for the the more serious minded, how long does it take for the ground to firm up? Just curious.  Garry, please don't relocate because much like economics, atmospherics is important to the renewal of combat operations in the theater.  So for those who know what conditions are needed for the ground to firm up please let me know.  Thanks guys.

It really depends on the year and location. Southern Ukraine, close to Black Sea, doesn't have really cold winters to begin with. Last year, even Moscow didn't have any snow till New Year.

How long till winter ?

Feels like Russians needs to do something dramatic in offensive department. Successfull liberation of entire Donetsk and reclaim what was lost in Lugansk could be a good start. The issue would then Kharkov where Ukrainians can threaten train routes from Russia.

The loss of Kherson city also add more spaces for Ukrainian Himars and maybe soon ATACMS to attack Russian position in Crimea.

sundoesntrise wrote:

Seems to me that the copes don't really have the reach and impact anymore, especially not abroad. Russian 'allies' (even if only in popular perception) are not hiding the disdain anymore.

Together with the IMF loan last week this spells.. well, let the Serbian forum members speak for themselves.

Vucic's defection can be explained one of two ways; and I say defection with reservation as he has had the career of a political opportunist. The main thing keeping Serbia onside was the sentiment of its people themselves.
Anyway
Either Russia's negotiating some sort of peace deal that will put it further than ever from influence in the Balkans, and Vucic is scrambling to salvage Serbia's position
Or he's been looking for an excuse to bow to Western pressure and dictat and now he's found it

I'm betting its the later option

But either way it's mostly just rhetoric.
Is Vucic now going to impose sanctions on Russia, or join NATO? If so then how will he explain it? He explained only his loss of faith in Russia, not why Serbia should now consider it an adversary
And if he isn't going to impose sanctions - well then in reality nothing has changed, other than that he has run to the IMF for his loan needs. Serbia was not in practice playing any part in the confrontation, and in the very early weeks when it did make some noise, the Kosovo Albanians were instructed to remind it of the fact that it's surrounded and so they did.

Stealthflanker wrote:How long till winter ?

Feels like Russians needs to do something dramatic in offensive department.  Successfull liberation of entire Donetsk and reclaim what was lost in Lugansk could be a good start.  The issue would then Kharkov where Ukrainians can threaten train routes from Russia.

The loss of Kherson city also add more spaces for Ukrainian Himars and maybe soon ATACMS to attack Russian position in Crimea.

The Russian retreat could be something to do with the dam

In that it could be so damaged that Russia didn't want the problem on their hands anymore and decided to let the Ukrainians deal with the consequences of their own actions

Either way moving anything across Kherson, especially if the Russians have set up any monitoring devices there - will be risky business.

Arkanghelsk wrote:The war can be won , without insane assaults on random settlements like Pavlovka

Without nuclear weapons

Without Russian casualties

It requires destroying Ukraine , as Grozny was

It requires mass missile and air attacks on Ukrainian cities, and using disproportionate force against them

The entire nation of Ukraine is fighting Russia, that is not a "fake state" , it is a threat which is fighting well and beating the Russian army

Not due to superiority , but because of mercy , and fighting with both hands tied behind the back

Knocking the power out , drone strikes, and making life inconvenient will not be enough to win

As Grozny, it is necessary to pummel the Ukrainian nation into submission

Grozny was taken, by bombing each building , block by block, with small special groups of assault teams

It is necessary to knock the wind out of them , and stomp on them when they are down

Fighting on Ukraines terms, will not end well for RU- and noone seems to understand this

No it wasn't

Grozny was not leveled for the hell of it or to crush Chechen willingness to resist - but as a result of close to 2 years of constant urban fighting and back and forth. The buildings that were leveled that were manned with rebels, which were shooting at advancing Russian forces. Well there was plenty of collateral damage as well, deaths of civilians - but it was incidental to the combat which was between two armed sides.

So what does your proposal come down to then?
Turn every city in the Ukraine into Grozny? Only if you're willing to storm them all and use heavy ordnance in support of the assault. Then sure. But you won't avoid large casualties to your troops even with the itchiest trigger finger. Grozny was about chucking grenades into basements without checking who was in there - because you couldn't run the risk that it was some insurgent waiting to pop up and ambush you. And all assorted pleasantry. Such fighting not only saps your manpower, but saps your soldiers' sanity as well.
And you'll have to repeat it again and again and again. Kharkov, Odessa, Kriovoy Rog, Dnepropetrovsk, Zaporozhie, Kiev.
At the end of it these cities would have been destroyed, emptied, and those who remain would require a constant stream of humanitarian supplies. The economic value of these cities will be less than zero for many many years. And it's unclear who would repopulate them.
I'll remind you again that half the casualties the DNR took in the conflict so far, it took in the battle of Mariupol.

While just bombing cities for the sake of it - not hitting industrial capacities, not hitting infrastructure, not hitting troop concentrations, not hitting anything but civilians might make sense if you're going for an Allied style firebombing of Dresden, or the German Blitz against London as it were; but even those actually had military value and military targets in their inception. Your argument is just to commit war-crimes in the hope that it breaks enemy morale. But why would it? And what would it offer in that regard anyway, over hitting power supplies and enticing people to leave to Europe rather than stick around there where there is no livelyhood to be made?

Furthermore you have offered a recipee to lose the war as well
In that you seem to be ignorant of the fact that a battle is being waged for world opinion too. And it simply won't do for Russia to resort to mass indiscriminate bombings and killing civilians at will. This will result in the country's isolation, not its membership as one of the leaders of a new coalition

The only reasonable explanation here is that you are a hidden Ukrop. Nice try though

https://swentr.site/russia/566351-kherson-region-russia-withdrawal/

Kherson remains part of Russia – Kremlin

The region’s legal status remains unchanged, says Dmitry Peskov as Russian forces redeploy across the Dnieper River

Can't really decide if this should be considered as hillarious or sad.

All tg channels I read lile greyzone, vladlen, dontstopwar, represythe viewpoints of actual Russian soldiers. Theyre headed by voenkors who communicate withthe soldiers, and have a much better view of the fromtline than you. The morale of the soldiers matters. Right now the morale is garbage, which leads to large surrenders in svatovo among mobilized.

Navalny is russian.

Are these fuckwit Russians helping by publicly broadcasting their whiny little problems to the world... would think that sort of thing would be called treason most places... whether it was true or not.

If they want to surrender and get their balls cut off... well they are clearly not worth worrying too much about... maybe the next batch will be smarter... unless you are talking shit and we should ignore what you are saying.

Remember quite recently you idiots posted cries from units that everything is too hard... followed later on by videos from said units saying things are not easy but they are not complaining... what should we take from that?

Mentioning problems is just fine, but when you help the enemy by posting it to pro Russian sites and claim the end is nigh then you are being a cowardly nazi pussy... it is sad that you are so stupid as to help your enemy so much when you claim to not be Zelenskys bitch.

You remind me of a few people who find anti Russian stuff on the internet and post it here because they genuinely want a pro Russian view, but the core problem often is that they keep taking the same shit from the same broken anti Russia source and asking if it is true, which becomes tiresome to the point where you start to wonder if they genuinely want a second opinion, or maybe if is from another forum and they want to copy and paste our answers to reply, or perhaps they are just who enjoy stirring the pot and want to wear people down.

Support should never be blind, but you are poisoned.

Young wageslave Russians I talk to all believe this and dont want to fight. Why fight when you wont be given drones, when a godfather will be exchanged for nazi murderers, when there wont be any liberation, when oligarchs and nepotistic geberals wont be shot?

Why not shoot themselves in the head then because money is power in every country... why not change sides and help the nazis because talking such nonsense on the interweb is helping them gain support... the Russians are collapsing from the bottom up... **** you.

These nazis are killing Russians but if you have something better you want to do... does it feel special knowing you give Biden a hard on...

@John  

There is no claim that EW affected HIMARS, maybe that was elsewhere.

When they say they jammed GPS guided HIMARS rockets what they mean is that they used EW to make the rockets think the actual targets whose coordinates they were flying towards was in a different place by using fake NAVSTAR signals... the result of which:

Russian air defenses shot down 28 rockets. Another five rockets were successfully deflected from their targets by electronic warfare.

Being jammed does not mean the exploded in mid air, it means it changed the local coordinates so the incoming missiles would hit in the wrong place.

Re : EW used on HIMARS, it is nothing unusual folks. They don't jam it, but causing a preemptive detonation of the warheads. The trick is, that it is a very powerful emission, and unfortunately small range.

That would work against air burst rockets designed to shower the ground with fragments  for use against troops in the open, but against bridges it would use a contact fuse which would not be set off by a radio proximity fuse.

These rockets are Navstar guided so local signals that shift ground coordinates by 20-50 metres means the rockets miss by 20-50 metres and become relatively harmless... but it only works at close range so you need the jammer to be sitting very close to the target... like a bridge.

It uses GPS guidnace. Where is the GPS jamming over all Ukraine ?

No point in jamming it... jamming it would mean it would just revert to inertial guidance which would mean it becomes slightly less accurate but heading towards the same coordinate.

Using Navstar signals you make the incoming round think it is heading in the wrong direction so it turns and flys to where it thinks it should be which will be well away from the actual target.

They have jammers with ranges of some thousands km. Use them and jam their GPS including civilian ones.

They don't want to jam it... just shift one signal to move the ground coordinates in one direction or another so the incoming weapon follows the wrong path and hits empty ground.

    Youve been saying the front is about to burst like an abcess since june.

You can see an abcess, but prediction without a lot of information is just guesses... a bit like the US economy is 32 trillion in debt and they continue to borrow more and increase spending on things that do not increase income or productivity (like the Ukraine)... it is pretty obvious what has to happen... but guessing when is very very difficult.

Sounds good but I think this is 4D chess fantasy talk, not based on reality.

Of course not... Putin lays all his cards on the table and plays no tricks and has no secrets or plans in place for any eventuality...

This lying sack of shit put Serbians there, meanwhile Croatians, Bosnians and Albanians were actually in the SS.

Maybe the ABCs claimed to be Ss to join the SS?

When talking about the waffen SS one needs to understand history first off not all Waffen SS divisions carried out genocide or war crimes, specific formations like "Deaths Head" did.

Actually all German military did not accept women as combatants... even in uniform, so most captured Soviet women soldiers were executed on the spot... which means technically all German units carried out war crimes... of course they will deny it.

As a solider, I do feel the need to point that out.

Some are merely men who served their country and did no wrong, its not right to label those who did nothing like those who did.

As a soldier protected from prosecution for war crimes by international courts I understand you sympathise with german soldiers going into the Soviet Union with the same protections from their own military and political leadership.... surely that earns a special label in itself.

Not saying that you belong to that club, but the modus operandi is similar. You are doing a great job at making every pro-Russian commenter on here look like a gigantic fool and legit psycho - simply by association.

The west already believes any pro Russian must already be psycho... our image in the west is already distorted and broken... most of Russias problems through the centuries are based around trying to make friends with the west in general and Europe in particular... Russia will be so much better without them.

Defensive lines being built in Crimea now, are the Russians expecting the Ukrainians to get that far? Jesus Christ. Don't tell me they're gonna actually even attempt to penetrate and succeed. Looks like it will be just defensive posture from Russia in the south, hard to see them doing any major offensives there for a while if ever. Very disappointing.

Have you notices most of the most extreme bullshit posts you have been making consist of your posts of that War Monitor ?

Think maybe they could be lying to you?

Losing Kherson is analogous to the gernans losing rzhev in 1943. If telegram existed in 1944, germans would be coping about how they left piles of dead sovidt troops around rzhev and that it was a gesture of good will and tactical regrouping to leave it, meanwhile they would never threaten moscow ever again

If if if... and now claiming you are pro Russian while saying the war is over because Putin is about to surrender.  

Nope and if you knew anything about history you'd know they were units that were just conscripted and sent to fight.

That is irrelevant... the best trained and the worst trained German soldiers committed war crimes.... and as they said... most were just following orders.

Greystone tg channel is one of the channels with most sensationalistic content i.e. bullshit.
One example is Abramovich story. I don't have any doubts that Abramovich is working hard to unlock his assets frozen in the west. But, grayzone talks shit way too often.

Would suit a pessimists agenda to follow such a channel though... makes sense as to why he is such a sour little bitch.

Actually bigger, but on pair with the French occupation zone where the colonial troops were stationed.
Still, it does not give a full picture, as a whole Germany was one big brothel where women tried to survive by paying with the currency they had.
A kind of early 'me too' movement.

Or a 'me next' movement...  

Everything for the front, everything for a victory!

Well, you can say whatever you want, but a guy turned out to be useful finally

Just throw everything he makes in the bin and check him for weapons all the time...

Overdoing for no reason is a particularity of russians.

A french man telling the Russians a few dragons teeth is a bit excessive... Maginot anyone?

A bit like using overpriced Iskanders with a manoeuvring engine, jammers and decoys when a dumb cheaper ballistic missile with good precision could do the job.

BUK and S-300 could shoot down conventional ballistic missiles, so Iskanders make good sense... how many HATO HQs just assumed they would be safe in any conflict are now realising they wont be... even against Iran now and also China and North Korea...

You do realize where foreign SS units right.....who didn't carry out the crimes we contribute to Units like Deaths Head and 1st Paratroop Panzer Division and there have been NUMEROUS studies using saviors and other data they have gathered which SHOW, not all Waffen SS units carried out warcrimes or even knew just like most of the Werhmacht, I am sorry but you need to do your research.

In the west research about the eastern front consists of asking the west german nazis what happened... the answer is heavily distorted and bias... they would have won if not for interfering Hitler and Winter.

Claims like the ones you have made have been looked into for decades and the finding openly state you are wrong.

I don't like historical revisionism.

You live in the west... you see nothing but historical revisionism... here is the proof from the west...



But that sort of revisionism you defend...

3) What are the chances now for any kind of winter offensive and what do you think about the direction and

magnitude of possible offensive?

Why do you think shortening and securing your own supply chains makes offensives impossible?

Remaining in Kerson and having the orcs use some underhanded method of blowing up those dams and having a large group of Russian soldiers isolated and difficult to support would seriously distract everyone, but you are using Russian troops as bait and you will lose quite a few in the process... instead now they can practise suicide drone use in a city and wait for conditions for an offensive arrive... remember on December 6th the G7 are going to impose an oil price cap on Russian oil exports... I would say by December 7th an attack would be fitting... another December 7th attack that will live in infamy... two major powers striking at the US because of illegal unilateral sanctions made peace no longer an option... coincidence?

However morale on the home-front is another story and trust in the leadership be seriously undermined if it turns out that there is some deal under the table; like say sanctions relief in return for giving up that territory.

That would not make any sense at all... they have moved their forces back from a position they didn't think they could defend properly... there have been no official declarations that Kershon now belongs to anyone else but Russia.

The release of fertiliser and grain is part of the agreement over ukrainian grain exports... it makes no sense for them to give up any actual territory other than because at the moment they can't hold it if the enemy desperately tries to take it.

It would appear to people as if oligarch profits are more important than the security of say the Crimea

Except the Russian government has been suggesting that some of its grain and fertiliser exports will be free or charge to certain countries in need, so what are these oligarchs actually making profits on?

I would suspect the first thing they do is shift their assets to Russia ASAP.

Forgot fact 9: putin called the Ukrainians nazis and drug addicts in February, now hes calling them respected partners.

Maybe that just reflects that many of the nazis and drug addicts now reside here on this forum spreading doom?

It is pretty clear that if you admit to wanting to exterminate the entire enemy force including civilians then no matter their view of their leadership or foreign masters, they have no choice to fight to the death.

Recognising that not all Ukrainians are Orcs and not all of them got to choose the path they are on is an important distinction that Putin needs to make clear because at some stage according to his plan the Ukraine is going to be split up into what he at first expected two regions but now it is four that will join the Russian Federation, and the rest of the country which will become neutral. If there is no tollerance of rational people on the other side there wont be anyone to command and control the neutral state.

The longer Kiev leaves this the smaller the future neutral state will become so I am happy this is not  going too fast despite the terrible price being paid by others.

But then solutions will come from the other side... only they can choose to end the fighting, it is Putins job to escalate and grind up their military until the civilians have had enough and want peace at any price... it might need to get very cold this winter to achieve that.... the people all over Europe can be stubborn... but then the weak have mostly already left anyway.

It's the same shit as Kharkov, Kherson, Kiev,

The same reason: it was difficult, and Russian lives needed to be saved,

You can rally all your friends on Telegramme and volunteer for the Russian Army and turn up and demand to be allowed to write your own orders... Kerson or death... Kiev or death, Odessa or death... it will really help speed up the war.

Serbia is in a horrific position. I dont blame those feeling anger.

Small countries, like a lot of people don't realise that brutal extreme violence does not bring the results you expect... mobilising 10 million men and just marching through the entire country of the Ukraine and then setting up positions on the EU borders is not a sensible use of Russias power and only a fucking idiot like Boris Johnson or Creepy Joe Biden would use shock and awe tactics.

It if was all Orcs on the other side of the front line then they would not have much other choice, but if it was all orcs on the other side of that line then that guy wouldn't have had his head smashed in in Kiev. Missiles and bombs and drones wouldn't be finding targets deep in enemy territory... Zelensky would not have been voted into power because he was the moderate anti war candidate promising negotiations.

Western control of the Worlds GDP was 75% 30 years ago but has dropped to 56% presently. Part of the shift going on in the world order.

Most importantly this conflict is the driving force that is making Russian airliners buy Russian airliners instead of western shit, and it is forcing Russian rich and powerful to move their money home to Russia or risk getting it pinched by those greedy western .

it would be nice not to keep testing drones or another equipment for years anymore ...the only questions is what kind of leverage has Rogozin on MIC?

Testing is always much faster and also much more comprehensive on a real front line...

OH, back to Serbia. Vucic just openly dumped Russia cause he knows they are a paper tiger and that he can't rely on them. Painful.

So you think Russia should make military decisions after consultation with Serbia?

If Serbia is a real friend and ally why would they dump Russia for a small withdrawal from an area they didn't feel they could defend properly... that had already been mostly evacuated of friendly civilians?

Maybe Russia should be dumping Serbia, but then maybe you are just making shit up because divide and conquer is how the west works, so just mind your own  business.

Just curious. Garry, please don't relocate because much like economics, atmospherics is important to the renewal of combat operations in the theater.

The approach of winter temperatures is very relevant to this thread...

So for those who know what conditions are needed for the ground to firm up please let me know. Thanks guys.

Keep in mind that firm ground is important but surprise is important too... they might wait a week or two to make sure the ground is going to stay frozen before launching any major attack... or they might wait for the enemy to attack first and then base their offensive on stopping and pushing that attack back and then starting their own offensive on the back of the enemy attack... like the tank battle at Kursk... but obviously only with tanks on one side this time... and no enemy air power to speak of.

So if the developing world (aka global south) manages to exert some control over its resource exports, then the west
is royally f*cked. It seems to be partly f*cked already.

When the oil price caps push the price of oil up to $150 plus per barrel then it is even more in trouble...

Beyond their own GDP how much do they control, through exchanges, payment systems. shipping, ports etc?

Most of their GDP is smoke and mirrors anyway... loans are not income and hedge fund managers will not feed the people or create anything of tangible value.

As we see now they own stock exchanges and goods from Russia to the rest of the world go through their ports... but now they have abused even that this will change and their income will diminish even further... they are the middle man for international trade... not just the US dollar, and their sanctions are destroying that now too... who wants to be held on their leash?

And I guess it's common understanding that the flow of weapons and cash towards Ukraine isn't exactly forever.

And it isn't going where it is needed either... cash disappears, weapons get destroyed when they reach ammo and weapon dumps near the front... and if it actually reaches the guys on the front line it means they have to stand up and march towards those artillery pieces in view of those attack helicopters... I am sure they would prefer to receive nothing and stay in their holes.

Feels like Russians needs to do something dramatic in offensive department.

That is an impression many are trying to cultivate... but really ask yourself why... to make internet nerds happy.... is that a good reason?

Vucic's defection can be explained one of two ways;

That is assuming he even said this.

Can't really decide if this should be considered as hillarious or sad.

Can you agree it is pretty clear evidence they withdrew their troops but have no plans to abandon the region forever to the enemy... wouldn't that be enough to prove claims of secret agreements is bullshit.[/quote]

owais.usmani wrote:

The region’s legal status remains unchanged, says Dmitry Peskov as Russian forces redeploy across the Dnieper River

Can't really decide if this should be considered as hillarious or sad.[/quote]

Or is is a statement about two things:
1. The war won't finished till Kherson occupied by Ukraine.
2. Any peace agreement has to guarantee the transfer of control of these areas to Russia.


Now, that is escallation.

Singular_Transform wrote:Or is is a statement about two things:
1. The war won't finished till Kherson occupied by Ukraine.
2. Any peace agreement has to guarantee the transfer of control of these areas to Russia.


Now, that is escallation.

Or he was asked a question by a journo and couldn't actually give a different answer than the one he gave, otherwise it would make even less sense

/notdooming

GarryB wrote:That would not make any sense at all... they have moved their forces back from a position they didn't think they could defend properly... there have been no official declarations that Kershon now belongs to anyone else but Russia.

Well it's Russia. It doesn't have to follow its own laws, its own constitution, its own decisions - everything is subordinate to executive order and the will of its head of state

So yes Kherson can be Russian territory one day and the next day it's handed back over as the result of a deal and the rubber-stamp parliament does its job and finds a way to rubber-stamp is as that is its sole job

Just like Putin had his max term limit coming up. All he had to do to get around that was declare that his terms are magically resetting to zero and let's hold a referendum to affirm that. A referendum no-one I knew went to other than myself and that he won. Now you might say there was an understandable reason for such measures - namely this confrontation with the West coming up and the need to preserve stability. But it doesn't change the fact that the constitution was used as toilet paper

Or take the same Kherson, a pro-Ukro city, even if only mildly, that didn't join in with the anti-Maidan uprising back in 2014.
Because it was judged necessary to achieve greater leverage in any future negotiations and send a message - a referendum was organized there and it magically became part of Russia too.

This is not Western propaganda, this is the way Russia works and its political elites' own attitude to all aspects of its statehood that are written down somewhere on paper. That they can be changed without notice as per expediency.

And this all is why trust is at a premium and all sorts of scenarios that would in another country be considered conspiratorial - would be very seriously contemplated over by analysts and ordinary people here.
That Russia simply arbitrarily decided to hand that territory back over just as it took it in the first place, betraying promises to those locals that are loyal to them (even if offered evacuation from their homeland), and assassinating the deputy governor they themselves had installed.
I'm not saying that's how it is BTW. I'm far from convinced that guy is even dead; the report of which sounding so strange that it was part of what convinced me that this whole Kherson pullout is part of a greater deception or trap. But if he is dead, just how the hell is Moscow supposed to ever find somebody to work with them on any territory ever again?

In this case, we're talking about morale on the home-front - and here perceptions are more important than reality, especially as no-one is doing a convincing job explaining reality.

And from this standpoint, Russia is its own worst enemy

The release of fertiliser and grain is part of the agreement over ukrainian grain exports... it makes no sense for them to give up any actual territory other than because at the moment they can't hold it if the enemy desperately tries to take it.

I agree, it's more likely related to the grain deal

But the timing is bad, and again, perceptions play their own role.