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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #32

    Regular
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    Post  Regular Sat Nov 12, 2022 5:21 pm

    flamming_python wrote:

    They were all criminal formations

    Even the ones which used Baltic conscripts were implicated in plenty of crimes against Jews and local civilians in multiple locations where they were based

    Your 'as a soldier' line is a premature rehabilitation of many war criminals and devout Nazis.

    Most of the crimes against jews in Baltics were done not by soldiers, but by locals and vigilante formations. Even Germans were shocked by what happened in Ghettos. Germans moving in was just a pretext to settle the score with minorities medieval way.

    Also, those who served in SS got lightly after the war, even the ones who had blood on their hands. There were simply too many survived to persecute and apart from some scapegoats and were repatriated with the rest. It was probably seen as a futile endeavor even by Stalinistic government.


    PS. This idiotic anti-ukrainian rhetoric is stupid and will never materialize. How can anyone expect Russians to exterminate Ukrainian civilians if they let f*cking Azovites walk free? Sure, some DNR units, Wagnerites or Rusych wouldn't have much love for Ukrainians and I wouldn't expect them to take POWs, but that's about it. The hate needed for final "salo"-ution is not there. Most of Russians and pro-russians I speak to simply wants Ukraine to have a bloody nose and her piggy wings clipped and that's it.
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    Post  flamming_python Sat Nov 12, 2022 5:30 pm

    caveat emptor wrote:
    It looks to me as if you are conflating Wehrmacht with SS. Wehrmacht had  bad apples, but for most part was just regular conscripted army. On the other hand, SS was predominantly made out of Nazi party members and sympathizers, especially in first years of the war.
    One more to thing that is important to acknowledge is that all units of German Army behaved much worse toward population and captured opponents in Eastern Europe, opposed to  the ones in Western Europe. It is a direct consequence of country's racial policies.

    There were several specific conditions applicable on the Eastern Front that weren't on the Western front

    One was the Geneva Conventions not applying to captured prisoners of war

    Communist Party members were shot on the spot upon capture. By every branch; SS, Wehrmacht, whatever else.

    But also there was some directive active in regards to the civilian population, can't remember what, and both the Waffen SS, and the Wehrmacht committed crimes against civilians with a considerable amount of frequency. Murders, rapes, plunder and other things.

    The Waffen SS had the added honor of the Einsatzgruppen; which were special detachments used for rounding up and executing Jews en masse, as well as reprisal attacks against villages suspected of aiding partisans. I forgot how many villages were burned to the ground with their inhabitants over the course of the SS"s activities. In Belarus alone upwards of 600 I believe.
    But again, crimes against Jews were committed by the regular German army too AFAIK; specifically in regards to Soviet Jewish POWs of war which same as the communists were summarily executed.

    Then we have for example mass atrocities such as the Siege of Leningrad. Which did not involve many SS. The blockade was carried out by Army Group North in total, which was mostly Wehrmacht, as well as the Luftwaffe active there, and the Finnish troops in the north and on the other side of Lake Ladoga completed the near-encirclement.
    More people died in Leningrad, mostly from hunger or complications brought on by hunger - than in Auschwitz.

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    Post  flamming_python Sat Nov 12, 2022 5:33 pm

    Regular wrote:Most of the crimes against jews in Baltics were done not by soldiers, but by locals and vigilante formations. Even Germans were shocked by what happened in Ghettos. Germans moving in was just a pretext to settle the score with minorities medieval way.

    Also, those who served in SS got lightly after the war, even the ones who had blood on their hands. There were simply too many survived to persecute and apart from some scapegoats and were repatriated with the rest. It was probably seen as a futile endeavor even by Stalinistic government.


    PS. This idiotic anti-ukrainian rhetoric is stupid and will never materialize. How can anyone expect Russians to exterminate Ukrainian civilians if they let f*cking Azovites walk free? Sure, some DNR units, Wagnerites or Rusych wouldn't have much love for Ukrainians and I wouldn't expect them to take POWs, but that's about it. The hate needed for final "salo"-ution is not there. Most of Russians and pro-russians I speak to simply wants Ukraine to have a bloody nose and her piggy wings clipped and that's it.

    I know; I was speaking about the SS formations with Latvian and Estonian conscripts - they were used in Belarus, in Russia at the minimum and there were a bunch of criminal cases and war crimes investigations linked with their activities. And they weren't even Germans never mind Nazi party members

    All SS formations left their trail


    Last edited by flamming_python on Sat Nov 12, 2022 7:01 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  ALAMO Sat Nov 12, 2022 5:36 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    About the same percentage as US soldiers in France and Italy and the Allied occupation zone in Germany for that matter

    Actually bigger, but on pair with the French occupation zone where the colonial troops were stationed.
    Still, it does not give a full picture, as a whole Germany was one big brothel where women tried to survive by paying with the currency they had.
    A kind of early 'me too' movement.

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    Post  flamming_python Sat Nov 12, 2022 5:44 pm

    billybatts91 wrote:Defensive lines being built in Crimea now, are the Russians expecting the Ukrainians to get that far? Jesus Christ. Don't tell me they're gonna actually even attempt to penetrate and succeed. Looks like it will be just defensive posture from Russia in the south, hard to see them doing any major offensives there for a while if ever. Very disappointing.


    Precaution is the better part of Valor.
    It's not a matter of expecting something.

    It should occur to one though, that nothing will inflict more casualties on the Ukrainians than an ill-fated attempt to get to the Crimean borders, buoyed on by overconfidence. Russia may even encourage them to do that
    Likewise, nothing will get the recruitment offices jammed with fresh volunteers than a threat to Russia proper, which is the Crimea. And it may be that Russia is willing to manipulate public opinion by allowing such a threat to become apparent too.

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    Post  ALAMO Sat Nov 12, 2022 5:45 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #32 - Page 13 Photo_75


    Everything for the front, everything for a victory!

    Well, you can say whatever you want, but a guy turned out to be useful finally Laughing Laughing

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    Post  flamming_python Sat Nov 12, 2022 5:47 pm

    ALAMO wrote:Russian special military operation in Ukraine #32 - Page 13 Photo_75


    Everything for the front, everything for a victory!

    Well, you can say whatever you want, but a guy turned out to be useful finally Laughing Laughing

    "From each according to his ability.." Laughing

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    Post  ALAMO Sat Nov 12, 2022 5:48 pm

    I am not sure, sewing is quite challenging ... scratch
    Laughing Laughing

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    Post  flamming_python Sat Nov 12, 2022 5:52 pm

    ALAMO wrote:I am not sure, sewing is quite challenging ... scratch
    Laughing Laughing

    He who doesn't work - doesn't eat

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    Post  Isos Sat Nov 12, 2022 5:59 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    billybatts91 wrote:Defensive lines being built in Crimea now, are the Russians expecting the Ukrainians to get that far? Jesus Christ. Don't tell me they're gonna actually even attempt to penetrate and succeed. Looks like it will be just defensive posture from Russia in the south, hard to see them doing any major offensives there for a while if ever. Very disappointing.


    Precaution is the better part of Valor.
    It's not a matter of expecting something.

    It should occur to one though, that nothing will inflict more casualties on the Ukrainians than an ill-fated attempt to get to the Crimean borders, buoyed on by overconfidence. Russia may even encourage them to do that
    Likewise, nothing will get the recruitment offices jammed with fresh volunteers than a threat to Russia proper, which is the Crimea. And it may be that Russia is willing to manipulate public opinion by allowing such a threat to become apparent too.

    Overdoing for no reason is a particularity of russians.

    A bit like using overpriced Iskanders with a manoeuvring engine, jammers and decoys when a dumb cheaper ballistic missile with good precision could do the job.

    Here they spend time effort and money to secure an area that isn't in danger. Showing off for nothing.

    They need to clean their staff of dumb generals.
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    Post  kvs Sat Nov 12, 2022 6:07 pm

    When the US overpays it is a sign of its wealth and prowess, when Russia overpays (allegedly) it is a sign of Russian genetic
    inferiority. This is the mentality of all the critics in this thread.

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    Post  Hole Sat Nov 12, 2022 6:08 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #32 - Page 13 Fhyelo10
    Dear #Ukrainians, please behave while we're gone.
    Don't forget you're on the territory of the Russian Empire!
    We're on a vacation and we'll be back soon.


    1. Don't bite the furniture
    2. Don't shit on the floor
    3. Don't disturb the bystanders
    4. Don't bark at night
    5. Make sure the doors stay closed, the winds are harsh!
    6. We suggest you tidy your rooms while we're gone.
    Each room has a portrait of our president V.V.#Putin, make sure to kiss it!
    We'll come to check on you!



    PS. Make sure you kiss the flag and sing the anthem of the #Russian Federation each morning!!


    With love, special forces of the Russian Federation!

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    Post  littlerabbit Sat Nov 12, 2022 6:18 pm

    franco wrote:Volunteers to the Waffen-SS;

    🇱🇻 Latvians: 80 000
    🇳🇱 Dutch: 50 000
    🇧🇪 Belgians: 40 000
    🇺🇦 Ukrainians: 25 000
    🇫🇷 French: 20 000
    🇮🇹 Italians: 15 000
    🇱🇹 Lithuanians: 11 000
    🇳🇴 Norwegians: 6 000
    🇩🇰 The Danish: 6 000
    🇷🇸 Serbians: 4 000
    🇪🇪 Estonians: 3 000
    🇫🇮 Finns: 1 200

    🇵🇱 Poles: 0

    https://twitter.com/StefanTompson/status/1590944415115509760


    No way there were Serbs in Waffen SS...and convincingly, not a single Croat (Ustasa) was there?!

    Such a bullshit! angry attack

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    Post  VARGR198 Sat Nov 12, 2022 6:21 pm



    That was quick

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    Post  Hole Sat Nov 12, 2022 6:35 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #32 - Page 13 Fhg6kl10
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #32 - Page 13 Fhx6jz10
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #32 - Page 13 Fhxzhw10

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    Post  Hole Sat Nov 12, 2022 6:37 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #32 - Page 13 Fhb0de10
    Laughing
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #32 - Page 13 Fhyqve10
    Ukro Gestapo confiscated dangerous stuff in Kherson.

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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Sat Nov 12, 2022 6:37 pm

    caveat emptor wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Nope and if you knew anything about history you'd know they were units that were just conscripted and sent to fight.

    There was french SS.

    Waffen SS much like Spetsnaz was just an Umbrella term.

    You wouldn't like it if I said all Russians troops during ww2 were rapists when only a small portion actually did that.

    So save me that weak ass logic, again some Waffen SS units DID do those things BUT not every single unit did or was even aware of what was going on
    It looks to me as if you are conflating Wehrmacht with SS. Wehrmacht had  bad apples, but for most part was just regular conscripted army. On the other hand, SS was predominantly made out of Nazi party members and sympathizers, especially in first years of the war.
    One more to thing that is important to acknowledge is that all units of German Army behaved much worse toward population and captured opponents in Eastern Europe, opposed to  the ones in Western Europe. It is a direct consequence of country's racial policies.

    You do realize where foreign SS units right.....who didn't carry out the crimes we contribute to Units like Deaths Head and 1st Paratroop Panzer Division and there have been NUMEROUS studies using saviors and other data they have gathered which SHOW, not all Waffen SS units carried out warcrimes or even knew just like most of the Werhmacht, I am sorry but you need to do your research.

    Claims like the ones you have made have been looked into for decades and the finding openly state you are wrong.

    I don't like historical revisionism.
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    Post  auslander Sat Nov 12, 2022 6:58 pm

    PhSt wrote:I have already determined the modus operandi of NATzO Trolls in this forum (and others) These NATzO Trolls will say a thing or two about how they support Russia and then mention a couple of slurs towards the West and Pukraine, this is to give other people an impression that they support Russia's cause, but this is just a ruse, when the opportune moment comes, they will not hesitate to regurgitate NATzO Propaganda and make small and irrelevant incidents look Big and Blow them out of proportion.  A thread should be started where a list of these NATzO Dogs is shown to expose them and serve as a warning to other users.

    I have seen horrors in my life that would put you, my nasty little shit, in Yellow House. Take your shit of killing all civilians and innocents and shove it up your bumm. Sideways and with a good spoon of pepper so you don't forget.

    For those who don't want his regurgitation, use your 'ignore' button and cut him out forever. For me he does not exist. Ever.

    Auslander

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    Post  ALAMO Sat Nov 12, 2022 7:04 pm

    Hole wrote:
    Ukro Gestapo confiscated dangerous stuff in Kherson.

    So they are going back to the concept of the Ukro Empire established 7000BC that dug the Black Sea? Laughing

    Do you know what is the funny part?
    That folks excluded from the Ukro narrative really get no point in that and consider us as kind of crazy Laughing Laughing Laughing
    Dudes ...
    They have REALLY taught kids in elementary schools that Ukropistan has a 9000 years of history.
    This is all about why full-scale parody in the Russian speaking net is being carried.
    They have reinvented their own history, bottom up.
    Everything was Ukrainian.
    Jesus Christ was!
    Christoper Columbus was one either!
    They discovered Amerika even earlier than the Vikings.
    Hell, they are the Vikings!
    Taking Oslo and Copenhagen, an ancient nest of the Ukropistan, is just a matter of a time!
    This can be funny as long as it doesn't make a state policy, that makes people die for.

    auslander wrote:
    I have seen horrors in my life that would put you, my nasty little shit, in Yellow House. Take your shit of killing all civilians and innocents and shove it up your bumm. Sideways and with a good spoon of pepper so you don't forget.
    For those who don't want his regurgitation, use your 'ignore' button and cut him out forever. For me he does not exist. Ever.
    Auslander

    I can't do that bro, because you are taking him out of my zoo where he proudly presents & expands the levels of imbecilic he masters in.

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    Post  littlerabbit Sat Nov 12, 2022 7:49 pm


    I have few questions for all of you guys:

    1) How this retreat from Kherson will influence on moral of Russian troops and Russian people in general?

    2) We are all talking about 318.000 reservists, which we are putting into account, but what about 150.000 more

    professional soldiers till the beginning of 2023, for who president Putin signed a decree few months ago? Anything

    about that?

    3) What are the chances now for any kind of winter offensive and what do you think about the direction and

    magnitude of possible offensive? dunno
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    Post  ALAMO Sat Nov 12, 2022 7:53 pm

    Offensive cost lives. Always.
    Russkie are constantly&secure determined to save it.
    They will call the Ukrs to come&die in as long as possible. That is a constant of this campaign since the end of the Spring I guess scratch

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    Post  lyle6 Sat Nov 12, 2022 8:02 pm

    The state has shown that its willing to swallow a massive L over getting its soldiers killed for something as stupid as misplaced pride.
    The ordinary soldier knows its his duty to die, the least you can do is give him a damn good reason for it.

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    Post  Podlodka77 Sat Nov 12, 2022 8:04 pm

    littlerabbit wrote:
    I have few questions for all of you guys:

    1)  How this retreat from Kherson will influence on moral of Russian troops and Russian people in general?

    2)  We are all talking about 318.000 reservists, which we are putting into account, but what about 150.000 more

    professional soldiers till the beginning of 2023, for who president Putin signed a decree few months ago? Anything

    about that?

    3)  What are the chances now for any kind of winter offensive and what do you think about the direction and

    magnitude of possible offensive?  dunno


    1. There are no corpses of Russian soldiers and no destroyed columns of Russian military equipment in that part of the Kherson region. The story of "panic" is like any other story; no more tanks, no more cruise missiles, everyone is leaving Russia and the Russian economy is falling apart. Only Limbtard and Cocklickson believe that.

    2. The number of 300,000 mobilized is an official figure, and in the end, that number can be higher, because the Russians are not obliged to give someone information about the exact number of mobilized. Everything is "mathematical" information that does not have to be officially disclosed.

    3. I am of the opinion that Russia, at least for the time being, wants this conflict to be prolonged because it is not in a hurry to send mobilized soldiers to the front, nor is it in a hurry to destroy the energy sector and the economy, but everything is going slowly and systematically and the results are already visible. It is possible that the "final of all finals" is a coup against the military-political top of Ukroshitstan. As JohninMK has already written, I also think that the strike will be terrible and very devastating, that is, when the moment comes for the final strike on Ukroshitstan.



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    Post  caveat emptor Sat Nov 12, 2022 8:38 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    There were several specific conditions applicable on the Eastern Front that weren't on the Western front

    One was the Geneva Conventions not applying to captured prisoners of war

    Communist Party members were shot on the spot upon capture. By every branch; SS, Wehrmacht, whatever else.

    But also there was some directive active in regards to the civilian population, can't remember what, and both the Waffen SS, and the Wehrmacht committed crimes against civilians with a considerable amount of frequency. Murders, rapes, plunder and other things.
    I am not talking only about Eastern Front. For the part of the war Germans had a policy of "100 for 1" in Serbia, where they shot 100 civilians for every dead German combatant and shot 50 for every wounded one. Even after policy was seized mass repression of population continued.
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    Post  caveat emptor Sat Nov 12, 2022 8:52 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    You do realize where foreign SS units right.....who didn't carry out the crimes we contribute to Units like Deaths Head and 1st Paratroop Panzer Division and there have been NUMEROUS studies using saviors and other data they have gathered which SHOW, not all Waffen SS units carried out warcrimes or even knew just like most of the Werhmacht, I am sorry but you need to do your research.

    Claims like the ones you have made have been looked into for decades and the finding openly state you are wrong.

    I don't like historical revisionism.
    There was also very active campaign by German generals and other officers to clean up image of German army post WW2. 
    I never said that all units were involved in repression and mass execution. But, it is well proven that SS units were more likely to kill civilians, POWs and do other bestial acts, when compared to Wehrmacht. 
    Foreign SS units in Eastern Europe mostly "distinguished" themselves in settling the score with minorities and political opponents.

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