Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27

flamming_python wrote:

The first couple of weeks have been chaotic but that's to be expected

Which country bar Israel and a couple of others ever practice mobilizations of their populations?

So yes you do end up with a bunch of people wrongly mobilized, some being sent to the wrong place, given the wrong equipment or whatever.
Most important is that it's all learned from and fixed quickly. As has been the case with the rest of the war. Mistakes are made but they're rapidly corrected.

Scorpius wrote:

ALAMO wrote:
What percentage of the mobilization is the one that faces fuckups?

I can't say the exact percentage, since this is the topic of a whole study. However, from the information I'm facing now:
1. Mass brawl with servicemen in Alabino.
2. The death of several mobilized in training centers.
3. Several cases of conflict with officers: in one of them there was a mass appeal to the prosecutor's office after the colonel told the mobilized "We will not train you, we are recruiting meat."
4. Video from the train with the mobilized, who were given weapons, and then abandoned - no money, no food, no uniforms, the train has been standing for two weeks. We have several hundred hungry, angry people who have military weapons in their hands and who were simply thrown into the field.
5. I was not personally a witness, but I received information from friends that at least one case when a conscript and a deceased at the front were returned three weeks after the draft, of which TWO were not taken up by the delivery of the body to relatives.
6. Also, according to information from friends from the LPR /DPR, I have information that the real losses of the allies are from 20,000 to 30,000 KIA at the moment. I cannot assess their reliability, I transmit only the data that I have been informed.
7. I also know an example when a soldier who has been fighting at the front for 7 months, who was wounded, and is currently undergoing treatment, received the following news: a) as soon as he is cured, he will be sent to the front line again, b) about a third of the monetary payments of one and a half million rubles have mysteriously disappeared somewhere, that is, about half a million of this amount will not be paid to him.
8. One of the mobilized, to whom I, as part of the community, am now helping with money to collect equipment, confirms that: a) almost all equipment has to be purchased independently; b) prices for necessary goods in stores have soared several times (growth coefficients range from x2-x3 to x7-x8 depending on the category of goods).
9. In fact, from the environment I know, only 2-3 people are sent to the front. Everyone else is fleeing abroad, hiding or otherwise looking for a way to avoid mobilization. All this distrust of the current government, its management methods and military leadership is argued. Simply put, people for the most part are sure of only two things: a) the authorities will betray at the first opportunity, b) Mobilization is designed to fill up the corpses with obvious gross mistakes of the command, that is, the mobilized are potential corpses. What follows is a simple chain of logical reasoning: "I don't want to die for the interests of a bunch of rich bastards who negotiate with the Nazis, throw ordinary people to death and generally demonstrate in every possible way that they pursue their own interests (mainly economic)".

I am now talking only about what I observe around me, using only facts and examples that are known to me.

P.S. Also I have to add my observations:
1. Society turned out to be very disorganized and divided.
2. Nevertheless, the main assistance to the front throughout its entire course comes from spontaneous public volunteer movements that help soldiers on the front line as much as they can. Assistance with money, equipment, moral support is all the result, first of all, of the self-organization of Russian society, and not the activities of officials.
3. The people who refuse to defend the country and run away are mostly those who in this very country had far from an average standard of living, but much higher. Those who received hundreds of thousands and millions of rubles a month mostly shy away from mobilization, preferring that simpler guys die for their comfortable life. This is a VERY bad indicator, which can lead to a civil war. The Russian people may soon raise the question of the relevance of capitalism again - after all, socialism, with all its distortions demonstrated earlier, was a MUCH more just society.

Scorpius wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

The first couple of weeks have been chaotic but that's to be expected

Which country bar Israel and a couple of others ever practice mobilizations of their populations?

So yes you do end up with a bunch of people wrongly mobilized, some being sent to the wrong place, given the wrong equipment or whatever.
Most important is that it's all learned from and fixed quickly. As has been the case with the rest of the war. Mistakes are made but they're rapidly corrected.

Something more organized should have been expected from a country conducting military operations, the course and causes of which have been told by leading propagandists for years. No one can explain to me why it was necessary to get involved in the SVO, without even having a strategic reserve of military force to fight on the front line. And this is after 8 years of proxy wars with the West.

Simultaneously, Putin has moved towards - and ultimately achieved - his project of formal annexation of Ukraine’s old eastern rim. This has also legally transformed the war into an existential struggle. Further Ukrainian advances in the east are now, in the eyes of the Russian state, an assault on sovereign Russian territory and an attempt to destroy the integrity of the Russian state. Recent polling shows that a supermajority of Russians support defending these new territories at any cost.

All domains now align. Putin and company conceived of this war from the beginning as an existential struggle for Russia, to eject an anti-Russian puppet state from its doorstep and defeat a hostile incursion into Russian civilizational space. Public opinion is now increasingly in agreement with this (surveys show that Russian distrust of NATO and “western values” have skyrocketed), and the legal framework post-annexation recognizes this as well. The ideological, political, and legal domains are now united in the view that Russia is fighting for its very existence in Ukraine. The unification of the technical, ideological, political, and legal dimensions was, just moments ago, described by the head of Russia’s communist party, Gennady Zyuganov:

“So, the President signed decrees on the admission of the DPR, LPR, Zaporozhye and Kherson regions into Russia. Bridges are burned . What was clear from the moral and statist points of view has now become a legal fact: on our land there is an enemy, he kills and maims the citizens of Russia. The country demands the most decisive action to protect compatriots. Time does not wait.”

A political consensus for higher mobilization and greater intensity has been achieved. Now all that remains is the implementation of this consensus in the material world of fist and boot, bullet and shell, blood and iron.

There are really only two ways to interpret what is happening. One is the western spin: the Russian army is defeated and depleted and is being driven from the field. Putin is deranged, his commanders are incompetent, and Russia’s only card left to play is to throw drunk, untrained conscripts into the meat grinder.

The other is the interpretation that I have advocated, that Russia is massing for a winter escalation and offensive, and is currently engaged in a calculated trade wherein they give up space in exchange for time and Ukrainian casualties. Russia continues to retreat where positions are either operationally compromised or faced with overwhelming Ukrainian numbers, but they are very careful to extract forces out of operational danger. In Lyman, where Ukraine threatened to encircle the garrison, Russia committed mobile reserves to unblock the village and secure the withdrawal of the garrison. Ukraine’s “encirclement” evaporated, and the Ukrainian interior ministry was bizarrely compelled to tweet (and then delete) video of destroyed civilian vehicles as “proof” that the Russian forces had been annihilated.

Russia will likely continue to pull back over the coming weeks, withdrawing units intact under their artillery and air umbrella, grinding down Ukrainian heavy equipment stocks and wearing away their manpower. Meanwhile, new equipment continues to congregate in Belgorod, Zaporizhia, and Crimea. My expectation remains the same: episodic Russian withdrawal until the front stabilizes roughly at the end of October, followed by an operational pause until the ground freezes, followed by escalation and a winter offensive by Russia once they have finished amassing sufficient units.

Scorpius wrote:It was because of people like you that all the failures at the front occurred: because of those who tried to keep silent about errors, because of those who provided incorrect data, because of those who did not want to change anything in their cozy little world full of corruption.

And now, when the real problems of mobilization have surfaced, when the state's UNPREPAREDNESS for the current situation has been revealed, you continue to shout that everything is fine. In fact, ignoring the current reality now means letting the Ukrainians and their Washington masters kill as many Russians as possible. Are you fighting on the side of Ukraine?

The current mobilization is not only being carried out badly, but also
1. It is being carried out with a great delay.
2. Conducted on an insufficient scale. I have already written above that in order to defeat the Ukrainian army in the current conditions, about a million active personnel trained in combat operations are needed. And I CAN'T understand why not now mobilize, for example, 600-800 thousand, of which 300 thousand will be sent to the combat zone, and the rest will be sent to military courses lasting 4-6 months. So the state will have a strategic reserve of 300-500 thousand COMBAT-ready troops, which is NOT available now.
Moreover, these measures should have been taken even BEFORE the start of the special operation, but this was not done. And this is an indicator of the level of incompetence of the military leadership responsible for the strategic plans of the special operation.

Isos wrote:Fighter bomber from telegram who is a russian guy with friends in the air force, I'm not sure he is not a former pilot, said that half of the crews of a su-34 squadron in Crimea have been shot down.

And they barely use this plane since most of the work is done by su-25.

That's fucking too much. Its RCS is so huge that its ECM can't hide it. And they are going against soviet made equipement against which they are trained.

Dr.Snufflebug wrote:I used to respect this guy, but he's been on a weird track recently.

I guess his friends in Moscow are of the mid-20's latte-sipping liberal variety who have little to no insight regarding military affairs, so silly ideas spread quickly, and he is clueless.

Even if that is the case, where's the common sense?

Dr.Snufflebug wrote:I used to respect this guy, but he's been on a weird track recently.

So, take this:


I guess his friends in Moscow are of the mid-20's latte-sipping liberal variety who have little to no insight regarding military affairs, so silly ideas spread quickly, and he is clueless.

Even if that is the case, where's the common sense?

Isos wrote:
Su 34 is shit.

Isos wrote:
Ka-52 proved to be very good but they use it more like a WW2 katyucha mlrs rthn an acual combat chopper. There is barely few videos of atgm launched by russian forces.

Isos wrote:
Mi 28 is used but no vîdeo of it. Being armoured it should be the one attacking and getting close. Ka-52 isn't armoured.

Vann7/notsobright/Atlas wrote:Is there trouble brewing between Wagner Group and the Russian MoD? bla bla bla

Scorpius wrote:

ALAMO wrote:

And again, this is something clearly&openly stated from the official Russian sources just from the beginning.
But the crying pussies don't hear what the people in charge had to say, are saying, and will say.
Because the point is not to have any answers, but to spread panic and own delusions.
Some random guy on TG/Twitter/whatever is making his own points, framing the Russian policy into that frames, and trying to recon up from his own delusions
If the actions do not match - then the whole yapping and crying starts about zhrada and Putin chuino.
From the very beginning, the stance of official Russian policy was clear: the longer the conflict will last, the bigger will be pain&sorrow for the Ukros.
What started as a political struggle to implement a Minsk agreements, and retaining the statehood and territorial integrity of the Ukro state, turned into war operation to recapture the republics and destroy the military potential of the Ukropistan.
As the Ukros were retaliating, and the NATO involvement became open&clear, operation was scaled up, and nobody mentions the territorial integrity of the Ukro state anymore.
What's more, signals from Moscow are clear - the longer it will take, the more serious weapon will be provided to the Ukrs - the bigger buffer zone will be established.
Situation is evolving, and we know now that there will be no territorial integrity of the Ukro state as stand firm back in let's say January.
Now we are only talking about the end of the Russian thirst.

It was because of people like you that all the failures at the front occurred: because of those who tried to keep silent about errors, because of those who provided incorrect data, because of those who did not want to change anything in their cozy little world full of corruption.

And now, when the real problems of mobilization have surfaced, when the state's UNPREPAREDNESS for the current situation has been revealed, you continue to shout that everything is fine. In fact, ignoring the current reality now means letting the Ukrainians and their Washington masters kill as many Russians as possible. Are you fighting on the side of Ukraine?

The current mobilization is not only being carried out badly, but also
1. It is being carried out with a great delay.
2. Conducted on an insufficient scale. I have already written above that in order to defeat the Ukrainian army in the current conditions, about a million active personnel trained in combat operations are needed. And I CAN'T understand why not now mobilize, for example, 600-800 thousand, of which 300 thousand will be sent to the combat zone, and the rest will be sent to military courses lasting 4-6 months. So the state will have a strategic reserve of 300-500 thousand COMBAT-ready troops, which is NOT available now.
Moreover, these measures should have been taken even BEFORE the start of the special operation, but this was not done. And this is an indicator of the level of incompetence of the military leadership responsible for the strategic plans of the special operation.

Isos wrote:Fighter bomber from telegram who is a russian guy with friends in the air force, I'm not sure he is not a former pilot, said that half of the crews of a su-34 squadron in Crimea have been shot down.

And they barely use this plane since most of the work is done by su-25.

That's fucking too much. Its RCS is so huge that its ECM can't hide it. And they are going against soviet made equipement against which they are trained.

Su-57 is needed in a special bomber variant with no fancy radars and OLS to keep the price down and stealthier since ols and radar are two good reflectors.

caveat emptor wrote:

Isos wrote:Fighter bomber from telegram who is a russian guy with friends in the air force, I'm not sure he is not a former pilot, said that half of the crews of a su-34 squadron in Crimea have been shot down.

And they barely use this plane since most of the work is done by su-25.

That's fucking too much. Its RCS is so huge that its ECM can't hide it. And they are going against soviet made equipement against which they are trained.

Post a link or shut up. Since, i also follow his channel, I'm pretty sure that he never said it. 
How far can a person go to prove that they are right?

Did not know that you have more knowledge about it's combat effectiveness than the Russian MoD and Sukhoi themselves.

But then again, you are the type of guy that believes no Mi-28 are not in use and heliborne Anti-Tank tasks are not performed with Vikhr, Ataka, Window-widow, Khrizantema and all the other toys. Even tho I already know that my words are wasted on you, evident from the fact that you ignore what FP, Podlodka, Garry and others have said.

Isos wrote:

Did not know that you have more knowledge about it's combat effectiveness than the Russian MoD and Sukhoi themselves.

But then again, you are the type of guy that believes no Mi-28 are not in use and heliborne Anti-Tank tasks are not performed with Vikhr, Ataka, Window-widow, Khrizantema and all the other toys. Even tho I already know that my words are wasted on you, evident from the fact that you ignore what FP, Podlodka, Garry and others have said.

They agree with me since they don't send them far away. They mainly use guided missiles from time to time to be safe.

The aircraft is advertized as a bomver that can go in enemy territory yet it gets destroyed as soon as it fall in range of a AD system.


Ukros are running tanks and even HIMARS during the day on the front. Mi-28 role is to carry 16 athm and destroy any vehicle that it sees.

Just send it above friendly forces and destroy vehicles from 8km away. I don't see what is complicated.