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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #24

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    calripson


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    Post  calripson Tue Sep 13, 2022 9:04 pm

    caveat emptor wrote:
    mr_hd wrote:I am officially Croat although my mother is Serbian - but overall I am Bosnian per my identity which gives me freedom to be neutral about any side and away from it and still connected - which is great comfort to me. The sad truth about picture above is that many Croats are brain washed about war times in Croatia.

    Those "liberated" areas are now empty, crumbling regions with jungle growing in the house gardens and only few very old people left. However in the school books is written such a crap - from one ultra nationalistic point of view that new generations, kids born and raised after the war - believe in totally idealized story and do not know that they are brainwashed from early age into fantasy world.

    The same system was during Yugoslavia times (Croatian propaganda is just cheaper version of it), we were brainwashed in the history books like partisans were good and all other were bad in the second world war - but real war is not black and white. Even good guys do bad things, war is such a dehumanized jungle that is able to erase all good from people under huge pressure points, it does not matter who is on which side.
    Nationalism is the worst result of the Yugoslavia wars and overall all local nationalities are infected with it from Slovenia to Macedonia and with that local political elites are making more easy to rule and hide overall corruption and regression in societies.

    And this war/conflict in Ukraine can be seen as parallel to wars in Yugoslavia. I had read one article that comes from the point that USSSR collapse is process that is still not finished - and is making parallel with Yugoslavia region - that is also under such process, still ongoing and unfinished  just the USSSR area is much bigger, countries are larger so process takes much longer compared to Balkan.
    It is scary picture, because potential for huge wars is enormous as well as very large tragedies and those flags everywhere in Ukraine but also in Donbass is sign that in that area nationalism will soon take everything like it did in Balkans in 90s.

    Sometimes reality is that there are no nice ways out. I am still hoping that Russia will not fall into that trap.
    Only significant difference btw Yugoslavian and USSR disintegration is that there were no major wars till now in Ex-USSR. There were smaller conflicts and civil war in Tajikistan, that was very bloody, but nothing even close to current conflict. Considering amount of weapons and size of populations, human toll of this war can easily go into a million or so. If both sides commit. Ukrainians are there, fully commited, and with Russians the jury is still out.
    And this is where all parallels stop. Russia is much more dominant in scheme of things than Serbia could ever claim. 
    If there is political will in Russia to push, there's no way Ukraine can win.

    Tell that to the guys who fought in Chechnya in 1994-1995 and 1999-2000.

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    thegopnik
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    Post  thegopnik Tue Sep 13, 2022 9:26 pm

    so much going on.

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #24 - Page 23 Screen27

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    thegopnik
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    Post  thegopnik Tue Sep 13, 2022 9:28 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #24 - Page 23 Screen28

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #24 - Page 23 Screen29
    Walther von Oldenburg
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    Post  Walther von Oldenburg Tue Sep 13, 2022 9:55 pm

    My previous post was a joke. I did not switch sides obviously Wink

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    thegopnik
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    Post  thegopnik Tue Sep 13, 2022 10:03 pm

    thank you Walther von Oldenburg we are relieved to hear that Wink
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    Post  thegopnik Tue Sep 13, 2022 10:08 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #24 - Page 23 Screen30

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    psg
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    Post  psg Tue Sep 13, 2022 10:12 pm

    My bad. Just fed up of all the hysterical posts, used to look up to this forum, for balanced discussions. Now just whining and people losing hope and thinking they know more and better than the Russian Military.

    You catch fish by casting bait on a line, when you see/feel movement you reel in the line to draw the fish closer or out from its hiding place, then you catch it in a net or pull the fkr out the water. Simple.

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    Backman
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    Post  Backman Tue Sep 13, 2022 10:14 pm

    This was a false alarm due to propaganda. But what does Russia expect after the Kharkov thing ?

    The alarming messages regarding a "tank army" or "massive concentration of Ukrainian forces" near the border with the Russian Belgorod Oblast, posted today, among others, by RSOTM (which prompted the usually level-headed RSOTM to ring alarm bells and claim that Ukraine was preparing to seize a Russian city, and calling on locals to self-organize in territorial battalions), have no basis in reality, per @DonRF22.

    According to the information he received from a Russian serviceman present in the area, the Ukrainian troops near the border do not exceed a company in size.
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    Post  Backman Tue Sep 13, 2022 10:26 pm

    Scott Ritters personal show has been pretty good. A new episode just dropped. I usually view things before posting but here it is. In a way, he was right when he got in that argument with Larry Johnson and Gonzalo Lira earlier in the year about the 53 billion in weapons being some kind of game changer. But then again, maybe he wasn't. There was almost nothing defending Kharkov. Literally no professional Russian soldiers.

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    Post  dionis Tue Sep 13, 2022 10:28 pm

    Backman wrote:Scott Ritters personal show has been pretty good. A new episode just dropped. I usually view things before posting but here it is. In a way, he was right when he got in that argument with Larry Johnson and Gonzalo Lira earlier in the year about the 53 billion in weapons being some kind of game changer. But then again, maybe he wasn't. There was almost nothing defending Kharkov. Literally no professional Russian soldiers.


    Okay so who in the world was guarding it? Not DPR or LPR militia.

    Rosgvardia?
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    Post  limb Tue Sep 13, 2022 10:35 pm

    mnztr wrote:
    caveat emptor wrote:
    Where, in Kherson? Not nearly enough. First you have to take Nikolaev and go further north. Establish a blocking force towards Zaporozhye and Krivoy Rog, because Ukrainians will counter-attack on the flank. You can't go directly on Odessa, because south of oblast has several big estuaries, first being at Nikolaev and very swampy ground. 
    That means you have to cut from the north and, basically, cut it off from rest of Ukraine. How many forces Russians have in Kherson, what do you figure?

    Once the border to the west is closed, they will be very hard pressed to fight on, and will probably collapse. in donbass. Once they surrender there, or scuttle back to Kiev that fighting force can be moved and bolstered with armour for the Odessa attack. Odessa can be attacked from 2 directions, but it will probably surrender once the border is closed and evac corridors opened. But shutting of the flow of weapons and ammo and fuel should be the #1 prioirity. Without it they cannot fight on. How the **** here is an oil refinery still operating is a bit of a joke to be honest.
    Ideally russia should take every single mobile grouping in the far east and move it to ukraine, unless those 50000 vostok exercise tropps are just parade dummies.. The ideal offensive direction would be between ugledar and gulyaipole, in order to bypass the kramatorsk-druzhkovka-konstantinovka fortifications and shorten the frontline. Barvenkovo should also be captured.
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    Post  Ispan Tue Sep 13, 2022 10:56 pm

    Brief report today

    https://guerraenucrania.wordpress.com/2022/09/13/parte-de-guerra-13-09-2022-lucha-en-todos-los-frentes/

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    thegopnik
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    Post  thegopnik Tue Sep 13, 2022 10:56 pm

    no Russian wants to lose to this,

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #24 - Page 23 16631010

    I bet the russian armed forces are itching for a fight instead but hate waiting for the green light.

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    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Tue Sep 13, 2022 10:57 pm

    Medvedev: Kiev's Security Guarantees Project is 'Prelude to World War Three'

    Earlier in the day, Volodymyr Zelensky's office presented a project of future "security guarantees" for Ukraine after Russia's special military operation ends. The plan includes massive militarization, as well as intervention by foreign guarantors in the event of an attack on the country.

    Deputy Chairman of the Russian Security Council Dmitry Medvedev has harshly criticized the project of security guarantees for post-conflict Ukraine, which was presented by Kiev, warning that its implementation will become a "prelude to World War Three".

    Medvedev said that the presented project is basically equal to extending NATO's military protection over Ukraine. He warned that if the bloc's members don't stop sending more weapons to Kiev, the conflict might grow to a different level, become less predictable and will start involving more and more countries.

    "Then the [people in] western countries will not be able to sit in their clean houses and apartments, laughing at how they weaken Russia using proxies. Everything around them will go up in flames. Their citizens will get their fair share of woes. The earth will literally burn and the concrete will melt around them," Medvedev warned.
    -----

    In other words not gonna do shit- why talk like this to be ridiculed? Imbecile elites

    Ukraine is already telling them they have been defeated and security guarantees will be imposed on stupid putin and Medvedev

    This is the biggest failure of elite in modern history of Russia

    Zelensky and Scholz are talking down to putin and the other imbecile

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    Post  flamming_python Tue Sep 13, 2022 11:01 pm

    walle83 wrote:
    dionis wrote:
    Backman wrote:
    I'm pro-Russian but come on....we need to face reality here. You're talking about 30 countries + Ukraine vs. Two (Russia and Belarus). They have a lot of money, a lot of people and a lot of sophisticated weaponry. No single country could go up against something like that, I'm just being realistic, that assessment has nothing to do with what has happened in Kharkov recently. Without nukes, Russia would be screwed.

    America with draft couldn't deal with Vietnam. The rest of NATO without the US is bleh. It would go nuclear, but that's because that would guarantee parity of life lost, instead of Russia stalemating it with 5x the losses of NATO.

    The difference is that the US choose to leave both Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan because of political decisions, it wasnt because the enemy had forced them out with thier military.

    The enemy is not forcing the Russian military out of the Ukraine; that's just Western war propaganda and the desperate desire to publicly declare victory prematurely while offering some kind of deal to Russia quietly. The plan to collapse Russia has failed and they're looking for a way out.
    Perhaps Russia is playing along, hence the quips from some figures about negotiations
    But I doubt they would offer terms that Russia would agree to

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    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Tue Sep 13, 2022 11:05 pm

    flamming_python wrote:

    The enemy is not forcing the Russian military out of the Ukraine; that's just Western war propaganda and the desperate desire to publicly declare victory prematurely while offering some kind of deal to Russia quietly. The plan to collapse Russia has failed and they're looking for a way out.
    Perhaps Russia is playing along, hence the quips from some figures about negotiations
    But I doubt they would offer terms that Russia would agree to

    So you tacitly admit the losers in Moscow have decided to make an agreement ?

    Well apparently the terns were already agreed to , Ukraine regained most of its territory

    And sanctions won't be lifted, nor will they respect the security interests of Russia

    Instead Medvedev is throwing a fit and a tantrum while we are lectured like a defeated state

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    Singular_Transform
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    Post  Singular_Transform Tue Sep 13, 2022 11:35 pm

    Arkanghelsk wrote:

    So you tacitly admit the losers in Moscow have decided to make an agreement ?

    Well apparently the terns were already agreed to , Ukraine regained most of its territory

    And sanctions won't be lifted,  nor will they respect the security interests of Russia

    Instead Medvedev is throwing a fit and a tantrum while we are lectured like a defeated state

    Russia have been ready for agreement since 2014.

    Never said anything else.

    It is the NATO side that doesn't want to make agreemen.

    I have to correct myself, they willing to make an agreement about the unconditional surrender of Russia.

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    Post  Arkanghelsk Tue Sep 13, 2022 11:37 pm

    Singular_Transform wrote:

    Russia have been ready for agreement since 2014.

    Never said anything else.

    It is the NATO side that doesn't want to make agreemen.

    I have to correct myself, they willing to make an agreement about the unconditional surrender of Russia.

    What was the point of SMO if they were gonna take it in the ass anyway ?

    Just let NATO go in then if they are gonna get the whole country anyway

    Makes no sense at all, and proves that the elites had no idea wtf they were doing
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Tue Sep 13, 2022 11:38 pm

    Singular_Transform wrote:

    I have to correct myself, they willing to make an agreement about the unconditional surrender of Russia.

    I seriously doubt there would be any Russia afterwards, rather "community of independent former republics of Russia" . Ruled by liberal traitor scum.




    Arkanghelsk wrote:

    Makes no sense at all, and proves that the elites had no idea wtf they were doing

    Perhaps they know what they are doing after all they are elites not you or me?
    BTW 8th November there are elections it the USA. Winter will be hard for Europe. What if suddenly in October Ukrops start to get hard bashing? idk but geopolitics is not independent form what happens in former Ukraine.


    Last edited by GunshipDemocracy on Tue Sep 13, 2022 11:42 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  Hole Tue Sep 13, 2022 11:41 pm

    As I see it any person in the upper echelon of the government rejected any negotiations, except the unconditional surrender of the Nazi regime.

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #24 - Page 23 Fcjnew10

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    Post  thegopnik Tue Sep 13, 2022 11:42 pm

    you know things have gotten bad when Azerbaijan and Georgia want to start a fight with you next Embarassed
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    Post  thegopnik Tue Sep 13, 2022 11:47 pm

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    Post  Backman Tue Sep 13, 2022 11:48 pm

    dionis wrote:
    Backman wrote:Scott .


    Okay so who in the world was guarding it? Not DPR or LPR militia.

    Rosgvardia?

    I heard Mark sleboda say the same thing. Yes. Rosgvardia.

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    Post  Backman Tue Sep 13, 2022 11:57 pm

    Arkanghelsk wrote:
    Singular_Transform wrote:

    Russia want to make agreemen.

    I have to correct myself, they willing to make an agreement about the unconditional surrender of Russia.

    What was the point of SMO if they were gonna take it in the ass anyway ?

    Just let NATO go in then if they are gonna get the whole country anyway

    Makes no sense at all, and proves that the elites had no idea wtf they were doing

    Why would Russia give up now

    "Putin still has a lot of military potential at his disposal, and not only for use in Ukraine" - White House

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    Post  DerWolf Wed Sep 14, 2022 12:01 am

    Russia got the numbers of regular army to finnish it, i dont think it needs mobilization, takes for example just Vostok exercise, there alone were 50k soldiers. But for some reason seems the top of politics have other ideas.

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