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    Darya Dugina, A.Dugin's daughter, killed by car bomb in Moscow

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    ArgentinaGuard


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    Post  ArgentinaGuard Sun Aug 21, 2022 6:00 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    Karl Haushofer wrote:This assassination of Dugin's daughter is one of the reasons that I started to emotionally detach myself from Russia already a few years ago. It is not worth to tie myself emotionally into a something that brings nothing more than constant disappointment and feeling of anger and helplessness. If Russia -  a supposed nuclear superpower - cannot help itself then why should I care about what happens to Russia?

    Russia is not a serious country. If Russia was a serious country this assassination would have never happened. They (Ukraine and the NATO) would not have dared to even try it.

    Over the years Russia has shown that it never retaliates when attacked. The Ukraine/West knows that it can target Russians inside Russia (even in Moscow) with absolutely no fear of themselves being attacked.

    I'm not asking Russia to be the aggressor, but it should retaliate when attacked. Lack of retaliation only invites more aggression.

    Did I say Russia is not a serious country? Well, I'll say it again. According to this Russian citizens who get caught in Russia for sending money to Ukrainian military only get a warning: https://twitter.com/loursparle/status/1560578253659709442

    If Russia was a serious country it would punish its citizens for helping the enemy during wartime. Eastern European countries imprisons their citizens who show public support for Russia.

    But, this is not a war for the Kremlin but a "special military operation". How is that going? Isn't Ukraine still shelling downtown Donetsk after six months of war?

    If Russia was a serious country it would have started the war with a massive bombing campaign of Kiev where all the important decision making centers would have been taken out in the first few hours. But instead we got this idiotic "polite war" where Russia sent it troops deep into enemy territory without air support to get slaughtered. It is true that Russia has learned from this and is not doing that anymore, but the fact that Russia thought that it would not face resistance in Ukraine is a further proof of the total incompetence of the Kremlin.

    Russia is just too weak and not organized both internally and externally.

    Fully expect Dugina's murder to go unpunished.

    I really don't get this logic.

    How many terrorist attacks happened in France, Britain, Germany, the US that killed people?

    And by some pathetic terrorist cells with far less resources at their disposal


    Which leading figures were killed by the terrorist attacks? Has anyone had this level of planning?

    This reminds me of the attacks by Pinochet's Chilean secret service (DINA). Once they blew up a political opponent's car in the middle of Washington. That's why it happened in 1970 and they never dared again. In addition, she was not related to the United States government but was a Chilean intern.
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    Post  ArgentinaGuard Sun Aug 21, 2022 6:32 pm

    [quote="Podlodka77"][quote="PapaDragon"]
    flamming_python wrote:
    Podlodka77 wrote:....


    А ко ти каже да сам се вратио ?

    Integrity ? I would not return to this forum if the site administrator blocked me. You did it, didn't you ?
    I don't blame you for doing it, because you've been here a lot longer, but I wouldn't go back here.
    I left because I don't like communists and infidels, and because this is a waste of time. Any talk about the glorification of the USSR drives me crazy, more than this conflict in Ukroshitstan.
    What should I read messages from these crying Russians (some of them) on this forum ? They are neither at the front, nor are they listening to the sound of shells, and they are crying as if the Ukrainians have come to their doorstep.
    In every Russian city, life goes on as normal, as well as construction, while they cry as if everything is falling apart. The Russians will play (war) moderately as long as their assessment is that it should be, it is obvious that they have patience, because when that patience runs out, then there will be no more pardons.
    The Russians will wage war the way they wage war as long as their assessment is that it should be so and who am I or you (or any other member of forum) to judge that.
    The majority here still fall for western propaganda, but that cannot last forever. The whole West is against Russia, but it's not worth it, the dogs are barking and Russia is moving on..


    The Ukrainian dogs have just planned and carried out an attack (confirmed by the Kremlin) against the daughter of an intellectual in Moscow and you say that the projectiles are not heard?

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    Post  mnztr Sun Aug 21, 2022 6:53 pm

    ArgentinaGuard wrote:

    The Ukrainian dogs have just planned and carried out an attack (confirmed by the Kremlin) against the daughter of an intellectual in Moscow and you say that the projectiles are not heard?
    [/quote]

    Has this been confirmed? It would not surprise me if this was actually done by the Russian govt. Its odd that he changed cars at the last minute as well.

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    Post  flamming_python Sun Aug 21, 2022 6:59 pm

    She wanted to make a stop on the way somewhere, her dad didn't, that's why he decided to go in a different car

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    Post  caveat emptor Sun Aug 21, 2022 7:01 pm

    mnztr wrote:
    Has this been confirmed? It would not surprise me if this was actually done by the Russian govt. Its odd that he changed cars at the last minute as well.

    What would be the logic behind it?

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    Post  mnztr Sun Aug 21, 2022 7:04 pm

    caveat emptor wrote:
    mnztr wrote:
    Has this been confirmed? It would not surprise me if this was actually done by the Russian govt. Its odd that he changed cars at the last minute as well.

    What would be the logic behind it?

    He may have been challenging the Kremlins narrative or use the war to increase his influence. Has he said anything to cause friction with the power bases in Russia? Maybe he just refused to fall in line.
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    Post  flamming_python Sun Aug 21, 2022 7:11 pm

    mnztr wrote:
    caveat emptor wrote:
    mnztr wrote:
    Has this been confirmed? It would not surprise me if this was actually done by the Russian govt. Its odd that he changed cars at the last minute as well.

    What would be the logic behind it?

    He may have been challenging the Kremlins narrative or use the war to increase his influence. Has he said anything to cause friction with the power bases in Russia? Maybe he just refused to fall in line.

    Well he wasn't challenging the Kremlin's narrative, and he wasn't a particularly prominent public voice either, as has been mentioned countless times already

    Matter of fact I hadn't even heard his opinions about the war. I heard Solovyov's, heard Kedmi's, heard Podolyaka's, heard Platoshkin's, heard Shevchenko's, hadn't heard Dugin's or his daughter's. Didn't even know he had a daughter.

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    Post  Regular Sun Aug 21, 2022 7:18 pm

    mnztr wrote:
    caveat emptor wrote:
    mnztr wrote:
    Has this been confirmed? It would not surprise me if this was actually done by the Russian govt. Its odd that he changed cars at the last minute as well.

    What would be the logic behind it?

    He may have been challenging the Kremlins narrative or use the war to increase his influence. Has he said anything to cause friction with the power bases in Russia? Maybe he just refused to fall in line.

    Challenging how? Increase influence where? He is not a politician. Please, without proof you are just using Ukrainian talking points. His narrative is set in stone from 2014, not much changed, or I am missing something?

    So far we know that a bomb equivalent of 400 grams in TNT was planted in the car, it's being investigated. Now hardest part will be finding who was responsible, especially if Mafia criminals were hired to do a hit job. So far the Central Investigation committee is considering it a contract killing. If it was a setup to blame Ukraine, they would have done it now. Knowing how hit jobs work in Eastern Europe - this can go uncovered for years if ever.

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    Post  flamming_python Sun Aug 21, 2022 7:36 pm

    Regular wrote:
    mnztr wrote:
    caveat emptor wrote:
    mnztr wrote:
    Has this been confirmed? It would not surprise me if this was actually done by the Russian govt. Its odd that he changed cars at the last minute as well.

    What would be the logic behind it?

    He may have been challenging the Kremlins narrative or use the war to increase his influence. Has he said anything to cause friction with the power bases in Russia? Maybe he just refused to fall in line.

    Challenging how? Increase influence where? He is not a politician. Please, without proof you are just using Ukrainian talking points. His narrative is set in stone from 2014, not much changed, or I am missing something?

    So far we know that a bomb equivalent of 400 grams in TNT was planted in the car, it's being investigated. Now hardest part will be finding who was responsible, especially if Mafia criminals were hired to do a hit job. So far the Central Investigation committee is considering it a contract killing. If it was a setup to blame Ukraine, they would have done it now. Knowing how hit jobs work in Eastern Europe - this can go uncovered for years if ever.

    It's beyond question that the Ukrops did the hit, considering that their propagandists starting fabricating fake translations and citations out of this Daria girl.

    They know they're guilty, hence they're already engaging in damage control

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    Post  Regular Sun Aug 21, 2022 7:51 pm

    flamming_python wrote:


    It's beyond question that the Ukrops did the hit, considering that their propagandists starting fabricating fake translations and citations out of this Daria girl.

    They know they're guilty, hence they're already engaging in damage control


    RWA wrote:Former Russian State Duma member Ilya Ponomarev, who fled Russia in 2014 due to criminal investigations (first to the US, then to Ukraine), claims on a Ukrainian propaganda channel aimed at Russians that "anti-Putin partisans" he's in contact with murdered Darya Dugina.


    Sounds like BS, but didn't Ilya put himself into a kill list?
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    Post  Dr.Snufflebug Sun Aug 21, 2022 8:00 pm

    Part of the blame for Darya's death lies with western media and the mythology they've created around Dugin.

    A marginal figure with little to no influence, who has never been acquainted with Putin and who has never enjoyed any particular support or benefits in Russia (his political party and newspaper were banned, he was sacked from MSU for inflammatory remarks on Ukraine and Ukrainians back in 2014 etc) has been elevated to some kind of evil mastermind, a eminence gris, a kind of modern day "Rasputin" conjuror (helped by his beard I am sure) with tentacles everywhere. People have bought it all over, especially Maidanist Ukrainians and their supporters have long attached huge importance to the character.

    At the end of the day, his ideas only occasionally coincided with the Kremlins, only on some policy aspects, and that's it. And nobody really gave a damn about the guy.

    So, the presumably attempted assassination on him, that killed his daughter instead, should be assessed in this light. An act of terror, because of his political views.

    If his views made him (and her) fair game as some have suggested, then a whole lot of people with fairly extreme ideologies are too, all around the world, regardless of their actual "achievements", regardless of whether they've actually ever contributed, directly or indirectly to anything tangible.

    Ironically, in some cases that would make many of the apologists of these acts legitimate targets as well.

    Now that's a can of worms.

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    Post  Hole Sun Aug 21, 2022 10:12 pm

    https://smoothiex12.blogspot.com/2022/08/about-dugins-daughter-assassination.html

    https://thesaker.is/short-message-from-andrei/

    https://www.moonofalabama.org/2022/08/rip-darya-dugina.html#more

    3 comments on her death and more info about her father.

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    Post  Dr.Snufflebug Sun Aug 21, 2022 10:19 pm

    Ponomarev said on UA TV that it was the work of some Russian Azovite cell funded and aided by Kiev and that he had a degree of insight into the operation, so there you go. Other Kievan officials have denied involvement, but I mean, contradictory statements are the usual.

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    Post  ArgentinaGuard Sun Aug 21, 2022 10:40 pm

    mnztr wrote:
    caveat emptor wrote:
    mnztr wrote:
    Has this been confirmed? It would not surprise me if this was actually done by the Russian govt. Its odd that he changed cars at the last minute as well.

    What would be the logic behind it?

    He may have been challenging the Kremlins narrative or use the war to increase his influence. Has he said anything to cause friction with the power bases in Russia? Maybe he just refused to fall in line.


    In other words, the Kremlin is going to kill one of its allies intelectuals, showing an image of weakness (bomb in the capital). It doesn't sound credible. Your analysis in no way question the government or war. He is a soldier of the national cause. Dugin is no more dangerous than other opposition clowns and friends of the West who are in Russia and have not been punished.

    Dugin was demonized by the Western media (despite the fact that he does not know Putin nor did he decide the war with the military commanders) and became a war target for Ukrainian radicals. He is a man without guards or government protection. His battlefield is ideas, he would never have expected this from the Ukrainian bastards. Unfortunately, his young daughter died in a mockery of fate.

    His death reminds me of Jordan Bruno Genta, an Argentine nationalist intellectual assassinated by the subversive Marxist guerrilla. They can't kill ideas, that's why they go after people.
    Glory to Dugina. Long live Russia.

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    Post  ArgentinaGuard Sun Aug 21, 2022 10:57 pm

    Dr.Snufflebug wrote:Ponomarev said on UA TV that it was the work of some Russian Azovite cell funded and aided by Kiev and that he had a degree of insight into the operation, so there you go. Other Kievan officials have denied involvement, but I mean, contradictory statements are the usual.



    Russia and its services must track down any subversive trail and annihilate it without consideration, because they are going to start attacking the innocent people of Russia.
    They already experienced it with the Chechens, this could be worse.
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    Post  flamming_python Sun Aug 21, 2022 11:43 pm

    ArgentinaGuard wrote:Russia and its services must track down any subversive trail and annihilate it without consideration, because they are going to start attacking the innocent people of Russia.
    They already experienced it with the Chechens, this could be worse.

    Yup. The trail is in Kiev.

    And if they forgotten how to do that then they can take tips from The Godfather at the very least

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    Post  GarryB Mon Aug 22, 2022 9:29 am

    He may have been challenging the Kremlins narrative or use the war to increase his influence. Has he said anything to cause friction with the power bases in Russia? Maybe he just refused to fall in line.

    Why would the Kremlin make the Russian people feel unsafe in their own capital city.

    But of course lets believe the western media because he obviously murders all his political opponents... novachok with navalny twice or maybe more often and that guy with the polonium, yeah Putins reign of terror these last 22 years is littered with his enemies.... all brutally murdered, and you can probably count all the Americans killed in Afghanistan these last few years because obviously 11/9 was Putin and he tricked the US into invading Iraq and Afghanistan over it... is there anything he hasn't done... rigging elections... last week when the power here went off for routine maintenance some of the things in the bottom of my freezer went bad...fucking Putin... why did he do that to me...

    The irony is how many actual skeletons are there in the Clintons closet, and I would expect a few in the Bush closet not to mention the Trump or Obama closet... but who would believe the latter because he is so squeaky clean, but speculation about western leaders is not OK while anything you can say is probably not bad enough to accuse Putin of.

    Gotta say that western propaganda is very very effective...

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    Post  Dr.Snufflebug Mon Aug 22, 2022 1:31 pm

    The FSB says that:

    "The main suspect is a Ukrainian citizen named Natalya Pavlovna Vovk, born in 1979.

    She arrived in Russia on July 23rd together with her daughter, Sofiya Mikhailovna Shaban, born 2010 and rented an apartment close to Darya Dugina's residence. They followed the Dugins for almost a month, using a Mini Cooper on which they changed license plates three times.

    The Dugins were booked for the "Traditsiya" festival in Sakharovo, Moscow Oblast, on Saturday, August 20th.

    Vovk and Shaban shadowed the Dugins there, and as the festival began and the parking lot had emptied of people, they quickly planted a remotely triggered explosive device (400g TNT equivalent) underneath Dugina's car, right under the driver's position.

    As the festival was being wrapped up hours later, they were waiting for the cars to exit the village of Sakharovo, out on the A100 road ("Mozhayskoye hwy") towards Moscow. As soon as the Dugin vehicle was spotted, the device was detonated, right after the car had turned in the intersection.  

    Vovk and Shaban left the scene, and exited Russia via Pskov to Estonia the day after, August 21st.

    Funds and materials and other support for the attack were provided by the Ukrainian security services."

    So, that's the Russian version of events as it stands, I guess. This has some implications, not least the allegation that the suspects escaped directly to EU- and NATO-country Estonia, which I do not think will agree to any form of cooperation, even if it's about plain and simple terrorism (not particularly uncommon, several countries in the Baltic and Scandinavian region have harbored well-known terrorists from eg the Caucasus before).

    Regarding the license plates, supposedly they entered Russia using LDNR plates, so in other words they were likely posing as refugees. Then their vehicle sported both Kazakh and Ukrainian plates according to the FSB, so it's not a wild guess that they used KZ plates while in Moscow, and UA plates when entering Estonia (again as "refugees"?)

    Quite the plot.

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    Post  flamming_python Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:04 pm

    Dr.Snufflebug wrote:The FSB says that:

    "The main suspect is a Ukrainian citizen named Natalya Pavlovna Vovk, born in 1979.

    She arrived in Russia on July 23rd together with her daughter, Sofiya Mikhailovna Shaban, born 2010 and rented an apartment close to Darya Dugina's residence. They followed the Dugins for almost a month, using a Mini Cooper on which they changed license plates three times.

    The Dugins were booked for the "Traditsiya" festival in Sakharovo, Moscow Oblast, on Saturday, August 20th.

    Vovk and Shaban shadowed the Dugins there, and as the festival began and the parking lot had emptied of people, they quickly planted a remotely triggered explosive device (400g TNT equivalent) underneath Dugina's car, right under the driver's position.

    As the festival was being wrapped up hours later, they were waiting for the cars to exit the village of Sakharovo, out on the A100 road ("Mozhayskoye hwy") towards Moscow. As soon as the Dugin vehicle was spotted, the device was detonated, right after the car had turned in the intersection.  

    Vovk and Shaban left the scene, and exited Russia via Pskov to Estonia the day after, August 21st.

    Funds and materials and other support for the attack were provided by the Ukrainian security services."

    So, that's the Russian version of events as it stands, I guess. This has some implications, not least the allegation that the suspects escaped directly to EU- and NATO-country Estonia, which I do not think will agree to any form of cooperation, even if it's about plain and simple terrorism (not particularly uncommon, several countries in the Baltic and Scandinavian region have harbored well-known terrorists from eg the Caucasus before).

    Regarding the license plates, supposedly they entered Russia using LDNR plates, so in other words they were likely posing as refugees. Then their vehicle sported both Kazakh and Ukrainian plates according to the FSB, so it's not a wild guess that they used KZ plates while in Moscow, and UA plates when entering Estonia (again as "refugees"?)

    Quite the plot.

    Makes it sound as if her 12-year old daughter is an accomplice cheers

    Which clown wrote this story?
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    Post  Dr.Snufflebug Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:10 pm

    And indeed, Vovk (nee Shaban) *is* a known Azov affiliate, so Ponomarev's story may have had some truth to it (though the "NRA" fantasy was clearly a lazy diversion, concocted in the last minute).

    Assuming that they're indeed on the right track, one has to wonder how she slipped through. I mean, she could have used some fake IDs/passports of course, and could have pretended to be an LDNR refugee, but given that there's been lots of talk and warnings about this very thing happening, is the security really that lax on the RU/UA (LDNR) border?


    Last edited by Dr.Snufflebug on Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  Dr.Snufflebug Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:14 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    Dr.Snufflebug wrote:The FSB says that:

    "The main suspect is a Ukrainian citizen named Natalya Pavlovna Vovk, born in 1979.

    She arrived in Russia on July 23rd together with her daughter, Sofiya Mikhailovna Shaban, born 2010 and rented an apartment close to Darya Dugina's residence. They followed the Dugins for almost a month, using a Mini Cooper on which they changed license plates three times.

    The Dugins were booked for the "Traditsiya" festival in Sakharovo, Moscow Oblast, on Saturday, August 20th.

    Vovk and Shaban shadowed the Dugins there, and as the festival began and the parking lot had emptied of people, they quickly planted a remotely triggered explosive device (400g TNT equivalent) underneath Dugina's car, right under the driver's position.

    As the festival was being wrapped up hours later, they were waiting for the cars to exit the village of Sakharovo, out on the A100 road ("Mozhayskoye hwy") towards Moscow. As soon as the Dugin vehicle was spotted, the device was detonated, right after the car had turned in the intersection.  

    Vovk and Shaban left the scene, and exited Russia via Pskov to Estonia the day after, August 21st.

    Funds and materials and other support for the attack were provided by the Ukrainian security services."

    So, that's the Russian version of events as it stands, I guess. This has some implications, not least the allegation that the suspects escaped directly to EU- and NATO-country Estonia, which I do not think will agree to any form of cooperation, even if it's about plain and simple terrorism (not particularly uncommon, several countries in the Baltic and Scandinavian region have harbored well-known terrorists from eg the Caucasus before).

    Regarding the license plates, supposedly they entered Russia using LDNR plates, so in other words they were likely posing as refugees. Then their vehicle sported both Kazakh and Ukrainian plates according to the FSB, so it's not a wild guess that they used KZ plates while in Moscow, and UA plates when entering Estonia (again as "refugees"?)

    Quite the plot.

    Makes it sound as if her 12-year old daughter is an accomplice cheers

    Which clown wrote this story?

    Well, as messed up as it sounds, in a messed up and toxic ideological environment even kids can be bona fide terrorists (though I doubt the kid in this case could have "contributed" in any meaningful way, so to speak, only tagging along). If the story is true, Vovk should be tried for child abuse as well as murder/terrorism. Imagine if they'd been caught and some altercation occured in which the kid died?

    Anyway, absolutely crazy stuff, all around. Nobody's going to buy the FSB version unless they provide an assload of evidence, and they aren't particularly well known for doing that.

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    ALAMO


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    Post  ALAMO Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:46 pm

    That excludes the first claims about "accidental" mistake.
    This girl has been targeted deliberately, and seems that in real she had much more valid connections than her father. She gave some lectures at Army 2022, and her psychological evaluations have been published in official military-related education papers for a long time.

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    Post  flamming_python Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:51 pm

    ALAMO wrote:That excludes the first claims about "accidental" mistake.
    This girl has been targeted deliberately, and seems that in real she had much more valid connections than her father. She gave some lectures at Army 2022, and her psychological evaluations have been published in official military-related education papers for a long time.

    On the contrary, it confirms it. Do me a favour ALAMO, don't take up a career as a PD  Razz

    John Mark Dougan mentions that from his info, Alexander Dugin elected to go home separately from Daria after the later wanted to make a stop on the way.

    So it was just a fluke that Dugin was not in the car on the way back and decided to travel by other means

    The killer could not have known this. As far as she knew, Dugin was in the car. The article mentions that this woman trailed the father and daughter traveling from their home to the festival; implying they arrived in the same car.


    Last edited by flamming_python on Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:03 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    Post  flamming_python Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:55 pm

    Also, a Russian senator has demanded that Estonia detain and transfer custody of the accused to Russia

    This is pretty serious. If Estonia refuses, then Russia will have grounds to suppose that this was an official NATO-sponsored terrorist attack against civilians in Russia, and aimed at killing high-profile political or social figures.
    Which would make it open season for Russia to do the same thing back.

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    Post  Dr.Snufflebug Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:27 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    ALAMO wrote:That excludes the first claims about "accidental" mistake.
    This girl has been targeted deliberately, and seems that in real she had much more valid connections than her father. She gave some lectures at Army 2022, and her psychological evaluations have been published in official military-related education papers for a long time.

    On the contrary, it confirms it. Do me a favour ALAMO, don't take up a career as a PD  Razz

    John Mark Dougan mentions that from his info, Alexander Dugin elected to go home separately from Daria after the later wanted to make a stop on the way.

    So it was just a fluke that Dugin was not in the car on the way back and decided to travel by other means

    The killer could not have known this. As far as she knew, Dugin was in the car. The article mentions that this woman trailed the father and daughter traveling from their home to the festival; implying they arrived in the same car.

    My speculation is that they knew Dugin spent a lot of time with his daughter anyway, and they ran less risk of getting spotted if they stuck to stalking her, and it was already known that they would be going together to the event.

    But that's just me, based on these allegations. No PD either.


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