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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    caveat emptor
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    Post  caveat emptor Tue Aug 02, 2022 2:08 pm

    calripson wrote:

    The same could be said of Skolkovo - a billion dollar boondoggle to produce a Russian "Silicon Valley". They got the fancy campus correct right down the the onsite British School for the VIPs' kids. Amounted to a job program for unemployed scientists and engineers. Whatever intellectual property that was ever produced was quickly sold to the Chinese. The state grants didn't give the state any equity interest nor any say in what happened to the developed technology. That was all under Medvedev.
    I'm not really familiar with what happens around Skolkovo. I know that MIT had a contract with it and used to recruit people there and take them to US.
    caveat emptor
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    Post  caveat emptor Tue Aug 02, 2022 2:13 pm

    In other news it seems that Ukrainian defenses around Bakhmut are crumbling. Also, it looks like Peski was taken along with more advancements around Donetsk.

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    marcellogo
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    Post  marcellogo Tue Aug 02, 2022 2:29 pm

    limb wrote:Im really annoyed that Su-25s only use. 2 rocket pods per flight. Wtf is this? Its far less than what Ka-52s carry judging by videos. In footage, Ka-52s carry 2 rocket pods plus  6-12 ATGMs.

    I saw footage where a Su-25 flew out with 2 S-13 122mm pods, but each pod was only loaded with 3 rockets instead of 5. I understand keeping the aircrame wear to a minimum,but the wear will increase by having to make 1 flight per rocket salvo. These rockets habe far less blast radius than even the grad. You need a large amount of them. Whats the logic of releasing 20 S-8s or 6-13s at a range of several km vs just firing a grad. What pot belly retard thought of this?

    1. The entire flight, plus ground maintenance of the aircraft takes longer than reloading a grad.
    2. The explosives released ate far less.
    3. Rocket pods have less range than grads
    4. Response time is higher for a Su -25 or helicopter to reach the release pt and then fire vs firing the grad.


    Aircraft firing a few small rovkets indirectly is pountless and inneficient.

    To put it simple they are actually performing CAS mission in such a configuration i.e. Combat Air SUPPORT i.e. providing an uninterrupted presence of air assets in support of troops moving on the terrain against not previously identified menaces i.e. ambushes.
    So, it related more to the CAP over the fleet carriers than anything that involve actively engaging an enemy force.
    In such a mission you have not any target to strike and if no one of them surface it means that you have achieved a complete success. preventing with your presence the enemies to threaten or harass your own units moving on terrain.
    In about all of such footage you mention you will see the same planes carrying also fuel tanks in order to maximize autonomy, so it's not a problem of maximum loading but of combat effectiveness.
    Rockets and inboard guns are weapons of choice in such missions as they allow the plane to keep on engaging eventual enemies over a long period of time instead on just one single drop (and they possesses a scare factor into doing strafing runs that bombs dropped from above simply lack) so they are consistent with the mission.
    In our experience in Afghanistan (yes, our air force doesn't just performed regularly such a mission but has a specific CAS plane in its inventory, the AMX) however the greatest asset in this kind of mission is a recon pod capable of real time integral two way radio and data relay with the troop on ground.

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    Post  Isos Tue Aug 02, 2022 2:32 pm

    Hole wrote:
    These decoys are made to look like the real thing (Iskander missile) on your enemies radar screen. There is nothing you can do about it.

    You can find out some way to differ them from iskanders in a lab for sure.

    But in the open with parasite noise that affect radars it will be impossible.

    The laws of physics make object fall at the same speed. You only need to make the rcs match the iskander one and the decoy is perfect. Add more of them and sime jamming stuff and it make it better.

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    Post  Hole Tue Aug 02, 2022 3:03 pm

    If the radar guy has half an hour to look into it he may get a clue.  geek  Problem is the damn thing (the missile) is to fast. The AD system has to react instantly. Even the newest generation of russian AD systems could do only one thing: launch a missile against all targets, real or fake. The worst case for the attacker is that anything is shot down, but even in that scenario he wins because it depletes the missile stock of the enemy.

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    Post  PapaDragon Tue Aug 02, 2022 4:01 pm


    What is this about Peski and Bahmut falling, any sources?

    avatar
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    Post  limb Tue Aug 02, 2022 4:13 pm

    Do you think Russia is banking on avdeevka falling? I read the coke plant there can have toxic runoff if bombed, so the russians have a double whammy of trying not to poison the groundwater for decades while dealing with massive underground concrete bunkers.

    Im wondering what NATO would have done against donbass style fortifications. I keep seeing pics of F-15Es carrying 20 500lb JDAMS. Would NATO aicraft just hit every concrete bunker with a jdam?


    marcellogo wrote:
    limb wrote:Im really annoyed that Su-25s only use. 2 rocket pods per flight. Wtf is this? Its far less than what Ka-52s carry judging by videos. In footage, Ka-52s carry 2 rocket pods plus 6-12 ATGMs.

    I saw footage where a Su-25 flew out with 2 S-13 122mm pods, but each pod was only loaded with 3 rockets instead of 5. I understand keeping the aircrame wear to a minimum,but the wear will increase by having to make 1 flight per rocket salvo. These rockets habe far less blast radius than even the grad. You need a large amount of them. Whats the logic of releasing 20 S-8s or 6-13s at a range of several km vs just firing a grad. What pot belly retard thought of this?

    1. The entire flight, plus ground maintenance of the aircraft takes longer than reloading a grad.
    2. The explosives released ate far less.
    3. Rocket pods have less range than grads
    4. Response time is higher for a Su -25 or helicopter to reach the release pt and then fire vs firing the grad.


    Aircraft firing a few small rovkets indirectly is pountless and inneficient.

    To put it simple they are actually performing CAS mission in such a configuration i.e. Combat Air SUPPORT i.e. providing an uninterrupted presence of air assets in support of troops moving on the terrain against not previously identified menaces i.e. ambushes.
    So, it related more to the CAP over the fleet carriers than anything that involve actively engaging an enemy force.
    In such a mission you have not any target to strike and if no one of them surface it means that you have achieved a complete success. preventing with your presence the enemies to threaten or harass your own units moving on terrain.
    In about all of such footage you mention you will see the same planes carrying also fuel tanks in order to maximize autonomy, so it's not a problem of maximum loading but of combat effectiveness.
    Rockets and inboard guns are weapons of choice in such missions as they allow the plane to keep on engaging eventual enemies over a long period of time instead on just one single drop (and they possesses a scare factor into doing strafing runs that bombs dropped from above simply lack) so they are consistent with the mission.
    In our experience in Afghanistan (yes, our air force doesn't just performed regularly such a mission but has a specific CAS plane in its inventory, the AMX) however the greatest asset in this kind of mission is a recon pod capable of real time integral two way radio and data relay with the troop on ground.

    Does a Su-25 having 80 S-8 rockets versus 40 S-8s cause THAT MUCH more wear and tear and reduced range?
    Mir
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    Post  Mir Tue Aug 02, 2022 4:42 pm

    limb wrote:

    Does a Su-25 having 80 S-8 rockets versus 40 S-8s cause THAT MUCH more wear and tear and reduced range?

    External weapons have a very negative effect on aerodynamics - the more you add the more drag it creates.
    Compare the weapons load depicted on the A-10 prototype compared to a typical loadout in Iraq.
    The first one is for PR - whilst the second picture depicts something closer to reality.

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 38 A10-pr10
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 38 A10-af10

    PS - how many rockets are in those tiny pods next to the Mavericks?  Smile

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    Post  Mir Tue Aug 02, 2022 4:49 pm

    PR shot over Germany >>

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 38 A10-ge10

    vs mission over Afghanistan >>

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 38 A10-ir10

    PS - Seven rockets to a pod btw Smile

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    Post  Ispan Tue Aug 02, 2022 5:05 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    What is this about Peski and Bahmut falling, any sources?


    Strelkov, topwar.ru and the Ukraine General Staff that admits the loss, as well as Yuri Butusov.

    Yura Sumy gives the following report, as translated by Gleb Bazov, big if true:

    -

    #YURI WAR BRIEFING Assault on Solidar and Bakhmut started. Unsuccessful Ukrainian counterattack near Bakmut leaves some 360 ukrainian soldiers dead, with several dozens of armored vehicles destroyed. Russians counterattack, pursuing the retreating enemy.

    Serious success near Avdeyeka: Up to two batallions of the Ukrainian infantry destroyed, 1st line of defense of the abandoned Peski village, a fortified area ploughed over by the artillery and airforce attacks, and taken over by the DPR troops.

    Chances of the Ukrainian offensive towards Kherson look grim as the principal objective of cutting of the Russian right-bank group from the supply have not been achieved, with Antonovski bridge nearly restored, Kakhovskaya dam intact, and multiple pontoon and ferry crossings in place.


    - I do not doubt the veracity of the reports, it just seems to me odd that the Ukrainians could stage a major counterattack at Bakhmut or any other place, maybe they are desperate and throwing everything they have, or they have learned it a little. It may be an exageration, but it could be true if for the first time the ukrops have managed to attack with more than a company or a single battallion at most.

    I remain cautious, but in my last report I recall there was a Ukrov two-battallion attak somewhere and it failed.

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    Post  Ispan Tue Aug 02, 2022 5:17 pm

    limb wrote:Im really annoyed that Su-25s only use. 2 rocket pods per flight. Wtf is this? Its far less than what Ka-52s carry judging by videos. In footage, Ka-52s carry 2 rocket pods plus  6-12 ATGMs.

    I saw footage where a Su-25 flew out with 2 S-13 122mm pods, but each pod was only loaded with 3 rockets instead of 5. I understand keeping the aircrame wear to a minimum,but the wear will increase by having to make 1 flight per rocket salvo. These rockets habe far less blast radius than even the grad. You need a large amount of them. Whats the logic of releasing 20 S-8s or 6-13s at a range of several km vs just firing a grad.

    I wondered about that one and looked it up. I commented on it on my blog on the comments, those aerial rockets are not equivalent to Grads, they are even more powerful than the US 5 inch Zuni rockets, the caliber is about the same, but they are much longer and heavier because they have thermobaric warheads.

    Gas, even if compressed, is less dense than solid explosive, but the power/weight ratio is greater. Those rockets are very powerful and much more precise than Grads.

    They have much longer range and are more precise than Grad, fewer rockets are needed to do the job.

    Artillery rockets are area weapons, airborne rockets are precision attacks.

    As for the choppers firing volleys of small caliber rockets at long range pulling upwards the nose it was shocking at first but once you see videos as strange it seems is a good use of rockets, dispersion is not that great as the rockets end up falling almost vertical, wich augments its effect like mortar rounds vs artillery shells.

    It's a clever tactic, it doesn't expose the helicopters to return fire and in fact it achieves better results than the typical strafing run by a WWII propeller plane, or a rocket attack, same thing. It's odd looking but a very clever use of the weapon.

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    Post  Hole Tue Aug 02, 2022 5:27 pm

    From RWA:
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 38 Fzk-4j10
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 38 Fzk_uc11
    Poor Nazi is having a hard time.  cry

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    Post  Hole Tue Aug 02, 2022 5:30 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 38 Fzln1f10
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 38 Scree422
    One Buk-M1 less. Soon the west will send Patriot as new game-changer.  Laughing
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 38 Scree423
    Pontoon bridge destroyed. Location not known.

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    Post  LMFS Tue Aug 02, 2022 6:52 pm

    Hole wrote:Poor Nazi is having a hard time.  cry

    Hell is what Donbass people have endured for 8 fucking years at the hands of these demons, 6 days of shelling is pure mercy from Russia compared to what they deserve censored

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    Post  LMFS Tue Aug 02, 2022 7:18 pm

    French volunteer turned out to be an eyewitness to the crimes of the Kyiv regime in Bucha

    Writer and former French soldier Adrian Boquet came to Ukraine on a volunteer mission. While there, the French volunteer was an eyewitness to the crimes of the Kyiv regime in Bucha.

    When Boke drove into Bucha by car, he saw human bodies lying on the side of the road. Next to them, the Ukrainian military laid out other corpses to give the effect of a mass death of civilians. This happened in early April, when Russian troops left the city a few days ago, it was then already occupied by Ukrainian armed formations.

    Nearby were invited members of the media, who began filming after the bodies were laid down.

    He saw all this with his own eyes. But, in addition, Boke repeated the story of another volunteer who was in Bucha before his arrival.

    Refrigerated trucks from other cities of Ukraine came to Bucha, from which the bodies of people were unloaded and laid out in rows.

    - he said.

    Boke had a chance to observe not only the process of creating the staging already known to the whole world in Bucha, but also the torture and abuse of Russian prisoners, as well as their murder.

    First of all, the officers were executed. I heard screams when the Azov people asked who the officer was here. As soon as the answer sounded, this person was immediately shot in the head.

    the volunteer said.

    Boke saw how the militants shot the prisoners in the limbs, hurt them.

    Now, despite the incoming threats, he decided to tell about everything he saw.

    https://en.topwar.ru/199723-francuzskij-volonter-okazalsja-ochevidcem-prestuplenij-kievskogo-rezhima-v-buche.html

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    Post  PapaDragon Tue Aug 02, 2022 7:34 pm


    And these are the people Russian generals wanted to pussyfoot around

    Just a reminder, they didn't allow their own troops to even use mortars on those precious Ukrainians that live West of them let alone something else

    Filthy traitors every last one of them, they should all hang instead of leading an army

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    Post  dionis Tue Aug 02, 2022 8:10 pm

    LMFS wrote:French volunteer turned out to be an eyewitness to the crimes of the Kyiv regime in Bucha

    Writer and former French soldier Adrian Boquet came to Ukraine on a volunteer mission. While there, the French volunteer was an eyewitness to the crimes of the Kyiv regime in Bucha.

    When Boke drove into Bucha by car, he saw human bodies lying on the side of the road. Next to them, the Ukrainian military laid out other corpses to give the effect of a mass death of civilians. This happened in early April, when Russian troops left the city a few days ago, it was then already occupied by Ukrainian armed formations.

    Nearby were invited members of the media, who began filming after the bodies were laid down.

    He saw all this with his own eyes. But, in addition, Boke repeated the story of another volunteer who was in Bucha before his arrival.

    Refrigerated trucks from other cities of Ukraine came to Bucha, from which the bodies of people were unloaded and laid out in rows.

    - he said.

    Boke had a chance to observe not only the process of creating the staging already known to the whole world in Bucha, but also the torture and abuse of Russian prisoners, as well as their murder.

    First of all, the officers were executed. I heard screams when the Azov people asked who the officer was here. As soon as the answer sounded, this person was immediately shot in the head.

    the volunteer said.

    Boke saw how the militants shot the prisoners in the limbs, hurt them.

    Now, despite the incoming threats, he decided to tell about everything he saw.

    https://en.topwar.ru/199723-francuzskij-volonter-okazalsja-ochevidcem-prestuplenij-kievskogo-rezhima-v-buche.html

    Well where in the world is the actual video of this interview?

    All we have now is links on a website...
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    Post  LMFS Tue Aug 02, 2022 8:53 pm

    Today was one of those days when it sucks to be an ukronazi, almost 1000 personnel eliminated just in isolated strikes:

    Russian Ministry of Defense
    Summary of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation on the progress of a special military operation on the territory of Ukraine⚡ ️ (02.08.2022)

    ◽The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue a special military operation in Ukraine.

    💥 As a result of a strike by the Russian Aerospace Forces on the combat positions of the 54th mechanized brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the area of the settlementMaryinka More than 50 nationalists of the 2nd battalion of this unit were killed in the Donetsk People's Republic.

    💥 High-precision weapons of the Russian Aerospace Forces hit the point of temporary deployment: the Ukrainian "Foreign Legion" near the city of Nikolaev. Up to 250 mercenaries and more than 20 pieces of military equipment were destroyed.

    💥 In localitiesMerefa and Chuguev In the Kharkiv region, as a result of high-precision strikes by the Russian Aerospace Forces, up to 500 nationalists of the 92nd mechanized Brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and a large number of military equipment were eliminated.

    💥 As a result of fire damage to the combat positions of the 16th battalion of the 58th Motorized Infantry Brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the area ofArtyomovsk, more than 130 nationalists were killed. The remaining soldiers of the battalion, numbering up to 70 people, hastily left their positions and left for the city.Konotop Sumy region, where they were disarmed and recognized as deserters.

    ◽Suffered significant losses in the area of the settlementThe 21st battalion of the 56th Motorized Infantry Brigade was shelled by Ukrainian troops during its retreat to the area of the village of Vodiane and was almost completely eliminated.

    💥Strikes by operational-tactical and army aircraft, rocket troops and artillery against military facilities on the territory of Ukraine continue.
    During the day, five control points were hit, including the 36th Marine Brigade in the Nikolaev area, the 92nd mechanized brigade in the Tsirkuna area. Kharkiv region, as well as personnel and military equipment of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in 142 districts.

    Seven ammunition depots were destroyed near populated areasArtemovsk, Konstantinovka, Ocheretino Donetsk People's Republic, Trudovoe Zaporozhye region andNikolaev.

    💥As part of the counter-battery fight, two artillery batteries of Hyacinth howitzers were hit in the areas of Dzerzhinsk and Novgorodskoye settlements Of the Donetsk People's Republic.

    💥Also suppressed: four MLRS Grad platoons and nine artillery platoons in firing positions near populated areasSeversk, Kirovo, Artemovsk, Avdiivka, Peski, Orlovka, Shakhterskoye, Velikaya Novoselka Donetsk People's Republic, Dobropillya Zaporozhye region, Shirokoe, Bereznegovatoe Mykolaiv region, Usskaya Lozovaya and Nortsovka districts Kharkiv region.

    💥Russian air defense systems shot down five Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles in the areas of populated areas during the dayMoskalevka, Petropavlovsk, Kopanki, Volkhov Yar Kharkiv region andSergeyevka Kherson region. Two Uragan multiple rocket launchers were also intercepted near Kherson.

    In total , 261 aircraft, 145 helicopters, 1,664 unmanned aerial vehicles, 361 anti-aircraft missile systems, 4,225 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 782 multiple launch rocket vehicles, 3,240 field artillery and mortar guns, and 4,655 units of special military vehicles have been destroyed since the beginning of the special military operation.

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    Post  kvs Tue Aug 02, 2022 10:09 pm

    LMFS wrote:
    Hole wrote:Poor Nazi is having a hard time.  cry

    Hell is what Donbass people have endured for 8 fucking years at the hands of these demons, 6 days of shelling is pure mercy from Russia compared to what they deserve censored

    The world's tiniest violin for this maggot.   Peski was one of the staging points for the shelling of civilians in Donetsk City for the last 8 years.
    Every single Ukr army clown in Peski should be considered a war criminal.

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    Post  flamming_python Tue Aug 02, 2022 10:16 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    And these are the people Russian generals wanted to pussyfoot around

    Just a reminder, they didn't allow their own troops to even use mortars on those precious Ukrainians that live West of them let alone something else

    Filthy traitors every last one of them, they should all hang instead of leading an army


    They didn't allow mortars to be used initially as Ukrop territorial defense and other retards were using mortars to shell their own population and blame it on Russia

    This little trick was successfully exposed as a result right in the beginning of the conflict

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    Post  Odin of Ossetia Wed Aug 03, 2022 3:10 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    And these are the people Russian generals wanted to pussyfoot around

    Just a reminder, they didn't allow their own troops to even use mortars on those precious Ukrainians that live West of them let alone something else

    Filthy traitors every last one of them, they should all hang instead of leading an army



    You should also include Putin.


    And it is not only an issue about the mortars, in many cases the Russian forces were led into ambushes, and were forbidden from "fighting too hard."



    http://asaland.proboards.com/thread/460/land-zamosc-zamojszczyzna-1942-1944


    http://michalw.narod.ru/index-Truth.html


    Back at that time people were commenting that the Russian forces were fighting like they were planning to lose.


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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Wed Aug 03, 2022 3:39 am

    flamming_python wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    And these are the people Russian generals wanted to pussyfoot around

    Just a reminder, they didn't allow their own troops to even use mortars on those precious Ukrainians that live West of them let alone something else

    Filthy traitors every last one of them, they should all hang instead of leading an army


    They didn't allow mortars to be used initially as Ukrop territorial defense and other retards were using mortars to shell their own population and blame it on Russia

    This little trick was successfully exposed as a result right in the beginning of the conflict

    Thats a piss poor excuse, This is why you do not allow civilians to dictate military operations.

    There is no defending that hand cuffing crap.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Aug 03, 2022 3:43 am

    It would be interesting if and how easy the muricans can update their systems to let their SAMs ignore such decoys and if this decoys exist with different "batches" emitting different frequency and infrared radiation.

    I would guess the decoys mimic the emissions and heat signatures of the actual missile... the missile itself uses radar sensors to detect enemy SAM sites and incoming ARH missiles so the thrust vector nozzles in the rocket motor can manouver the missile to evade being hit on the way to the target... these decoys likely emit the same signals so any SAM trying to home on jam or passively attack the missile will hit a decoy instead of the actual missile itself.

    Im really annoyed that Su-25s only use. 2 rocket pods per flight. Wtf is this? Its far less than what Ka-52s carry judging by videos. In footage, Ka-52s carry 2 rocket pods plus 6-12 ATGMs.

    Probably mostly due to the fact that they are firing on small groups of enemy and flying low and fast takes concentration so your fly out and hit your target and quickly fly back and rearm and refuel and reload all those flares and chaff dipoles.

    Flying around on the off chance you stumble on an enemy artillery vehicle is stupid and pointless... take off... hit your target and return and land and rearm and reload and do it again.

    The Su-25 spends a few minutes getting to targets and heading home probably at 500-800km/h... extra weight does not help.

    A helicopter flys much slower and spends rather more time over the battlefield... the rockets will be for the targets and the missiles and cannon shells for targets of opportunity or self defence.

    BTW a few rockets from four aircraft delivered from a few kms away can be very effective against a wide range of targets... even when it is just to make the enemy get their heads down for a bit.

    Whats the logic of releasing 20 S-8s or 6-13s at a range of several km vs just firing a grad. What pot belly retard thought of this?

    Rockets lose accuracy over distance, so the shorter the range the better the natural groupings of rockets... even with lofting the rockets from the Frogfoot only travel at best 6-7km, and can arrive from any angle they want including from behind when talking about prepared positions... lofting would also increase the angle the rockets come in at making their fragmentation more effective too.

    An air attack is more responsive and can be delivered from any angle... plus it takes the pressure off the ground based artillery forces...

    Warfare is very mathematical and you can create calculations to work out how many munitions are required to defeat a specific target... things that will effect the calculation is if you can see the target or not, if the target is armoured and needs a direct hit or is a soft target dispersed over an area etc etc.

    The air attacks might be air support called in for units that are out of artillery range or at the edge where too many rockets would be needed to achieve a level of target destruction required because of nearby civilians or friendlys etc etc.

    No calculation leads to 100 % kills of course...


    Aircraft firing a few small rovkets indirectly is pountless and inneficient.

    It is responsive and can deliver rockets to target in some places where other options are not available or practical.

    For instance a small cove of trees has enemy snipers firing at friendly forces... the only rocket forces in range are Smerch launchers with 300mm rockets, but the distance means they would need to fire a very large number of rockets to get good coverage of the aim point... the time required to load suitable rocket types would be comparable to the flight time of an Su-25 and its deliver from a much shorter range... or perhaps they are planning an attack later that day and the rockets from the plane are to soften the target area up a bit before the ground based artillery shatters the enemy positions.... the purpose of the delay is to see if the enemy will stay and fight it out or break cover and run... if they break cover and start running then the ground based artillery rockets aim point would need to be adjusted...

    10 S-13s is not light. Its basically training load. Light load is around 40% of maximum payload. Su-25 has max 4000kg. Light but effective load would be around 1500kg, i.e 4x 250kg bombs, or 4x S-24s, or 80 S-8s.

    Bombs would require flying much closer to the target... ten S13s by comparison is a remote delivered cluster bomb... the S-13D and S-13DF have warheads with the equivalent HE power of about 40kgs each, so that is 400kgs of HE per plane... certainly not nothing.


    Why would you send 4 Su-25s with 160 80mm rockets total instead of 2 much cheaper grads or tornado Gs with 80 122mm rockets with much higher range and accuracy? Why waste the :
    -fuel
    -airframe life
    -expensive consumables for ground maintenance
    and risk:
    -irreplaceable Su-25s getting shot down
    -crashes

    for something a grad can do?

    An aircraft can cover a much larger area of the combat zone and move rather faster... arguably with the west providing intel to the Orcs it is not impossible that they might send the coordinates of Russian artillery batteries or they work them out for themselves with their artillery radar and fire upon them... nothing is actually safe on a battlefield.

    Why use Su-34s or Su-35s when you can use Iskander and S-400?

    The fact of the matter is that both are useful and both are available and both are expected to contribute in war.

    Saying it is too dangerous is saying they are not fit for use against HATO.

    But Su-25s never do strikes deep behind enemy lines. They only shoot at the frontline, so that advantage is moot.

    They are highly mobile Grads that can also do other things as well... I would think they also can carry LMUR missiles as well as other small missile types when needed, and of course with bunkers they could deliver heavier bombs that rocket launchers like GRAD can't crack... plus they would be useful against enemy helicopters too.

    How do you know if Su-25s loiter? ALso they're quite slow, only moving at 200m/s and need to get quite close to have any kind of accuracy. Grads are everywhere. Russia has almost a thousand of them on the frontline.

    No point in loitering because what sort of weapons will you require? If you don't know then you have to take everything you might need and end up using a weapon that is not ideal for the job... which means half arsing it.

    Su-25s can cover a good area of the battlefield and can fly up to about 950km/h at altitude... normally 7-800km/h lower down when needed.

    Not sure where to put TOS1 as its vulnerable but such a useful tool to stop any assault cold. Maybe you move it up when guns are engaged and it delivers the death blow.

    TOS would stop any counter attack in its tracks, but well dug in forces covered by land mines would be a good target softener....

    Does a Su-25 having 80 S-8 rockets versus 40 S-8s cause THAT MUCH more wear and tear and reduced range?

    The examples you give are presumably those 2 minute videos showing Su-25s taking off and flying to a target area and lofting a few rockets and then turning away releasing flares and heading back to base... presumably the ground forces called in a location that was giving them problems... they couldn't give a precise window or door to hit... so a Frogfoot gets airborne with some rockets and flys to the area and launches a volley of rockets at the target location... they work in pairs so two planes launch volleys of rockets and then the next pair with the camera launches in pairs too and then they head back to base... job done.

    The ground forces got their fire support and can move forward again...


    PS - Seven rockets to a pod btw

    And only 70mm.

    It's a clever tactic, it doesn't expose the helicopters to return fire and in fact it achieves better results than the typical strafing run by a WWII propeller plane, or a rocket attack, same thing. It's odd looking but a very clever use of the weapon.

    As long as the coordinates of the target are known the navigation information from the aircraft itself can be used to calculate the angle needed to hit the target area... and with HE Frag rockets dispersal is important for effectiveness.

    The Gefest & T systems for the delivery of all weapons is a very useful and capable system... it is used to deliver dumb bombs accurately from altitudes of 10km or more with good accuracy, but with this lofted trajectory rocket launching I would say toss bombing would also be possible too.

    The G&T system was developed for older aircraft to improve their performance with cheap ordinance, but with new aircraft having equivalent systems built in the potential is enormous...

    Back at that time people were commenting that the Russian forces were fighting like they were planning to lose.

    Back at that time they wanted Putin out because that was the whole point of this conflict... to remove Putin from power in Russia.

    Let them talk but listen to them at your peril... they are not your friend and don't want good things for Russia or anyone else that is not them.

    Big_Gazza, kvs and Hole like this post

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    Post  ALAMO Wed Aug 03, 2022 4:36 am

    It seems like Ukrs were trying to stage a counteroffensive in the Bachmut area, in Pokrovskoye direction.
    To find out that there is a Wagner concert playing Laughing
    A whole BTG was dismantled, 300+ KIA, and dozens of heavy equipment burned.

    GarryB, Werewolf, d_taddei2, Big_Gazza, kvs, JohninMK, Sprut-B and like this post

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    Post  flamming_python Wed Aug 03, 2022 10:04 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    And these are the people Russian generals wanted to pussyfoot around

    Just a reminder, they didn't allow their own troops to even use mortars on those precious Ukrainians that live West of them let alone something else

    Filthy traitors every last one of them, they should all hang instead of leading an army


    They didn't allow mortars to be used initially as Ukrop territorial defense and other retards were using mortars to shell their own population and blame it on Russia

    This little trick was successfully exposed as a result right in the beginning of the conflict

    Thats a piss poor excuse, This is why you do not allow civilians to dictate military operations.

    There is no defending that hand cuffing crap.

    Like I said it was worth a try

    Trying to open the eyes of Ukrainians as to who the actual enemy is, and how their own criminal army is ready to fire ordenance at them just for media points in the West

    However if instead they want to be retarded and fulfil the role of cannon fodder at the behest of their Anglo appointed head of state then that's their prerogative.

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