Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

caveat emptor wrote: It is very unlikely these components can be sanctioned as they come from China. On the other hand, "strategic thinking" and destruction that "managers" like Chubais and Chemezov left behind is appaling. Not to mention that using non military grade components had to lead increase in  failure rate of equipment. Penny pinching for military procurement while using private planes and buying houses in French Riviera.
These people should be shot and their assets seized by the state.

JohninMK wrote:
What is this missile?

caveat emptor wrote: It is very unlikely these components can be sanctioned as they come from China. On the other hand, "strategic thinking" and destruction that "managers" like Chubais and Chemezov left behind is appaling. Not to mention that using non military grade components had to lead increase in  failure rate of equipment. Penny pinching for military procurement while using private planes and buying houses in French Riviera.
These people should be shot and their assets seized by the state.

calripson wrote:
They could start by dismantling the Yeltsin museum in Yekaterinburg.

Belisarius wrote:

At the site of today's missile attacks in Odessa, decoy submunitions of the 9M723 OTRK Iskander-M air-ballistic missile were found. Such dummy targets emit radar and thermal radiation, which greatly complicates the work of Ukrainian air defence.
https://t.me/theRightPeople1/5381?single

limb wrote:Im really annoyed that Su-25s only use. 2 rocket pods per flight. Wtf is this? Its far less than what Ka-52s carry judging by videos. In footage, Ka-52s carry 2 rocket pods plus  6-12 ATGMs.

I saw footage where a Su-25 flew out with 2 S-13 122mm pods, but each pod was only loaded with 3 rockets instead of 5. I understand keeping the aircrame wear to a minimum,but the wear will increase by having to make 1 flight per rocket salvo. These rockets habe far less blast radius than even the grad. You need a large amount of them. Whats the logic of releasing 20 S-8s or 6-13s at a range of several km vs just firing a grad. What pot belly retard thought of this?

1. The entire flight, plus ground maintenance of the aircraft takes longer than reloading a grad.
2. The explosives released ate far less.
3. Rocket pods have less range than grads
4. Response time is higher for a Su -25 or helicopter to reach the release pt and then fire vs firing the grad.


Aircraft firing a few small rovkets indirectly is pountless and inneficient.

Mir wrote:

limb wrote:Im really annoyed that Su-25s only use. 2 rocket pods per flight. Wtf is this? Its far less than what Ka-52s carry judging by videos. In footage, Ka-52s carry 2 rocket pods plus  6-12 ATGMs.

I saw footage where a Su-25 flew out with 2 S-13 122mm pods, but each pod was only loaded with 3 rockets instead of 5. I understand keeping the aircrame wear to a minimum,but the wear will increase by having to make 1 flight per rocket salvo. These rockets habe far less blast radius than even the grad. You need a large amount of them. Whats the logic of releasing 20 S-8s or 6-13s at a range of several km vs just firing a grad. What pot belly retard thought of this?

1. The entire flight, plus ground maintenance of the aircraft takes longer than reloading a grad.
2. The explosives released ate far less.
3. Rocket pods have less range than grads
4. Response time is higher for a Su -25 or helicopter to reach the release pt and then fire vs firing the grad.


Aircraft firing a few small rovkets indirectly is pountless and inneficient.

In actual combat most strike aircraft never carry a full load. Lighter loads saves fuel and makes the aircraft a lot more maneuverable and less vulnerable. A flight of 4 or more such "lightly" armed aircraft can still deliver a significant punch. Also the longer you loiter over the target the more likely the chance to get blown out of the sky. On the other hand helicopters can effectively use the terrain as cover and can therefor hang around over the battlefield.

limb wrote:

10 S-13s is not light. Its basically training load. Light load is around 40% of maximum payload. Su-25 has max 4000kg. Light but effective load would be around 1500kg, i.e 4x 250kg bombs, or 4x S-24s, or 80 S-8s.


Why would you send 4 Su-25s with 160 80mm rockets total instead of 2 much cheaper grads or tornado Gs with 80 122mm rockets with much higher range and accuracy? Why waste the :
-fuel
-airframe life
-expensive consumables for ground maintenance
and risk:
-irreplaceable Su-25s getting shot down
-crashes

for something a grad can do?

Mir wrote:

limb wrote:

10 S-13s is not light. Its basically training load. Light load is around 40% of maximum payload. Su-25 has max 4000kg. Light but effective load would be around 1500kg, i.e 4x 250kg bombs, or 4x S-24s, or 80 S-8s.


Why would you send 4 Su-25s with 160 80mm rockets total instead of 2 much cheaper grads or tornado Gs with 80 122mm rockets with much higher range and accuracy? Why waste the :
-fuel
-airframe life
-expensive consumables for ground maintenance
and risk:
-irreplaceable Su-25s getting shot down
-crashes

for something a grad can do?

Grads are extremely effective but they have a firing range of no more than 50km max. Su-25's are more flexible and have a much longer operational reach.

Light loadouts maximize the time the aircraft is on call. For CAS you need aircraft on station ready to provide fire support at a moment's notice. Now, not minutes away from forward airbases or waiting hours for slow moving artillery to reposition to within range. All the firepower doesn't really matter when your dudes are already dead before you enter the scene.

limb wrote:
But Su-25s never do strikes deep behind enemy lines. They only shoot at the frontline, so that advantage is moot.

Werewolf wrote:

Belisarius wrote:

At the site of today's missile attacks in Odessa, decoy submunitions of the 9M723 OTRK Iskander-M air-ballistic missile were found. Such dummy targets emit radar and thermal radiation, which greatly complicates the work of Ukrainian air defence.
https://t.me/theRightPeople1/5381?single

It would be interesting if and how easy the muricans can update their systems to let their SAMs ignore such decoys and if this decoys exist with different "batches" emitting different frequency and infrared radiation.

ALAMO wrote:
The point is, that in the case of Russian-made weaponry, it does influence the price tag, while in the corrupted West does not.
Russia is expecting an domestic electronics production boom at any moment, it is one of the main tasks given by Putin a while ago. Till then, there is no option other to use widely available parts that can be purchased from a variety of subcontractors.

caveat emptor wrote:

ALAMO wrote:
The point is, that in the case of Russian-made weaponry, it does influence the price tag, while in the corrupted West does not.
Russia is expecting an domestic electronics production boom at any moment, it is one of the main tasks given by Putin a while ago. Till then, there is no option other to use widely available parts that can be purchased from a variety of subcontractors.

Point of Rusnano was exactly to create "electronics boom", as you put it. About 15 years later, two bankruptcies and billions of dollars siphoned out through paper companies they have almost nothing to show for.
As for Rostec and that fat thief Chemezov, enough is to go back to Putin's remarks from few weeks ago.
I wouldn't be surprised that Chemezov has a personal wealth of several hundred million $, if not more, while heading government owned entities.
All  deflections of US vs Russia are meaningless. Over 15 years are wasted along with billions of state money with very little to show for.
I'll stay sceptical on "electronics boom" until proven wrong. First step would be to take Chemezov, with some people around him, out and bring new faces. Chances for that are extremely slim to none. I hope they won't be "starting investigations" only after they flee the country, like in case of Chubais. These changes are as important as winning a war in Ukraine, imo.