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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Big_Gazza
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    Post  Big_Gazza Wed Jul 27, 2022 12:55 am

    Hole wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:Very Happy

    https://t.me/levigodman/4253
    One of the brave western leaders.  Laughing

    Truss is an idiot and it doesn't surprise me to see her being a coward.  One unscripted moment and we get to see the real Truss in action, sans the manufactured bravado and Thatcher/Churchill fake persona. Razz

    Not that I'm at all happier about the prospect of a Pakistani merchant-banker leading the Tories, but in the end who cares?  This entire debacle simply proves that the Brits have the same problem as the US, a total lack of exemplery people in public life.  All candidates are hopeless and less than appealing, and the country simply has no-one better to offer.  What a joke, so much for the "exceptionalist West". clown

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    Post  flamming_python Wed Jul 27, 2022 1:01 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    Hole wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:Very Happy

    https://t.me/levigodman/4253
    One of the brave western leaders.  Laughing

    Truss is an idiot and it doesn't surprise me to see her being a coward.  One unscripted moment and we get to see the real Truss in action, sans the manufactured bravado and Thatcher/Churchill fake persona. Razz

    Not that I'm at all happier about the prospect of a Pakistani merchant-banker leading the Tories, but in the end who cares?  This entire debacle simply proves that the Brits have the same problem as the US, a total lack of exemplery people in public life.  All candidates are hopeless and less than appealing, and the country simply has no-one better to offer.  What a joke, so much for the "exceptionalist West". clown

    They don't need exemplary people as Prime Ministers and exemplary people are not drawn to politics in the West

    They need personalities that know on which side the bread is buttered, can be trusted to kick the can along, and manage affairs without having being told explicitly what to do

    But Truss is truly an appalling specimen. Her downright amateur appearance in Moscow, before the Defense Secretary was sent the next day to salvage the situation from her unprofessionalism.

    Well doesn't matter. Britain is not going to be calling any shots in the Ukraine nor is Washington. This conflict has taken on a global significance with the world order being shuffled around, while the war situation will continue to get more desperate for the Ukraine and that's that.

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    Post  zorobabel Wed Jul 27, 2022 1:48 am

    The Antonovsky Bridge is getting hammered again tonight, probably by HIMARS.

    https://twitter.com/RWApodcast/status/1552048505396543489

    Big_Gazza
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    Post  Big_Gazza Wed Jul 27, 2022 2:09 am

    zorobabel wrote:The Antonovsky Bridge is getting hammered again tonight, probably by HIMARS.

    https://twitter.com/RWApodcast/status/1552048505396543489


    I'll wait and see before making any assumptions. HIMARS is nothing special, so I don't see why Russian AD can't adequately protect the structure.

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    Post  zorobabel Wed Jul 27, 2022 2:23 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    zorobabel wrote:The Antonovsky Bridge is getting hammered again tonight, probably by HIMARS.

    https://twitter.com/RWApodcast/status/1552048505396543489


    I'll wait and see before making any assumptions.  HIMARS is nothing special, so I don't see why Russian AD can't adequately protect the structure.
    I don't think the rockets are large enough to take the bridge out. Just punch holes in it like last time, probably. There are several videos of the attack tonight. No SAMs utilized.
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    Post  Belisarius Wed Jul 27, 2022 2:25 am

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 23 Img_2042
    Hello we‘d like to crowdfund another Bayraktar drone
    https://t.me/levigodman/4255

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    Post  Big_Gazza Wed Jul 27, 2022 3:27 am

    zorobabel wrote:
    Big_Gazza wrote:
    zorobabel wrote:The Antonovsky Bridge is getting hammered again tonight, probably by HIMARS.

    https://twitter.com/RWApodcast/status/1552048505396543489


    I'll wait and see before making any assumptions.  HIMARS is nothing special, so I don't see why Russian AD can't adequately protect the structure.
    I don't think the rockets are large enough to take the bridge out. Just punch holes in it like last time, probably. There are several videos of the attack tonight. No SAMs utilized.

    If the bridge was attacked, I don't for a second believe that AD didn't engage the salvo(s) as the Antonovsky Bridge is important and will be getting 24-7 defense coverage. The video shows an MLRS attack on a bridge, but is the timestamping legit or is it another BS Ukropi psy-op fake? It doesn't take much to use old footage of the the early strikes and edit a fake time/date. It won't stand up to scrutiny but since when does that matter to Ukro orc propagandists? dunno

    Anyways, time will tell.

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    zorobabel
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    Post  zorobabel Wed Jul 27, 2022 4:23 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    zorobabel wrote:
    Big_Gazza wrote:
    zorobabel wrote:The Antonovsky Bridge is getting hammered again tonight, probably by HIMARS.

    https://twitter.com/RWApodcast/status/1552048505396543489


    I'll wait and see before making any assumptions.  HIMARS is nothing special, so I don't see why Russian AD can't adequately protect the structure.
    I don't think the rockets are large enough to take the bridge out. Just punch holes in it like last time, probably. There are several videos of the attack tonight. No SAMs utilized.

    If the bridge was attacked, I don't for a second believe that AD didn't engage the salvo(s) as the Antonovsky Bridge is important and will be getting 24-7 defense coverage.  The video shows an MLRS attack on a bridge, but is the timestamping legit or is it another BS Ukropi psy-op fake?  It doesn't take much to use old footage of the the early strikes and edit a fake time/date.  It won't stand up to scrutiny but since when does that matter to Ukro orc propagandists? dunno

    Anyways, time will tell.
    That footage is from the head of the Military-Civilian Administration of Kherson.

    Here is clearer footage, btw.
    https://t.me/RVvoenkor/21013
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    Post  PapaDragon Wed Jul 27, 2022 5:51 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    zorobabel wrote:The Antonovsky Bridge is getting hammered again tonight, probably by HIMARS.
    https://twitter.com/RWApodcast/status/1552048505396543489

    I'll wait and see before making any assumptions. HIMARS is nothing special, so I don't see why Russian AD can't adequately protect the structure.

    According to one Serbian analysts/journalists/whatever he is told by people on the ground that they don't bother with intercepting attacks on bridges because cost of missiles expended for interception is much higher than cost of fixing the damage to the bridge (or just using pontoons if it does go down)





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    Post  mnztr Wed Jul 27, 2022 7:33 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Big_Gazza wrote:
    zorobabel wrote:The Antonovsky Bridge is getting hammered again tonight, probably by HIMARS.
    https://twitter.com/RWApodcast/status/1552048505396543489

    I'll wait and see before making any assumptions.  HIMARS is nothing special, so I don't see why Russian AD can't adequately protect the structure.

    According to one Serbian analysts/journalists/whatever he is told by people on the ground that they don't bother with intercepting attacks on bridges because cost of missiles expended for interception is much higher than cost of fixing the damage to the bridge (or just using pontoons if it does go down)







    That makes a lot of sense. Give them something to blaze away with their rapidly shrinking pool of ammo.

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    Post  GarryB Wed Jul 27, 2022 8:05 am


    Today they are still without any proper SHORAD/SPAAG system with the Bradley Linebacker and the Avenger as their main options, but having said that the US seems to take air superiority for granted no matter what type of conflict they are involved in.

    Every new generation of Soviet and Russian air defence system has been adapted over and over to be more mobile to be able to operate very effectively within an IADS but also to operate without one, to have more ready to fire missiles, to extend the reach and performance of the missiles, to be able to fire while moving making yourself a more difficult target for enemy air power...

    Western SEAD capabilities are OK... they are not as amazing as they like to pretend... with the conflict in Kosovo we saw even antiquated systems could evade the attentions of HATO air power... newer more capable systems and they would have been losing aircraft at a horrendous rate. They didn't fly below about 6 to 8km altitude and committed no helicopters because of their fear of MANPADS... which of course is justified.

    Their problem was that while flying higher will protect them from MANPADS it wont protect them from TOR or Pantsir or BUK or S-350 or a range of other new system... even Kornet-EM in the HE warhead equipped model can hit slow flying targets up to 10km altitude and flares and chaff will do nothing to stop them.

    The western ground forces have taken for granted that they will enjoy air superiority but this conflict in Ukraine shows even when the IADS is down separate vehicles can operate on their own or in batteries and still shoot down planes in passive optics mode if needed.

    The Ukraine as an OK set of systems... vastly better than any other HATO country or HATO as a force combined, but it is nothing compared with the systems the Russians have and day by day are only getting better.

    HATO might be in for a shock the next time it intervenes in regard to the sort of equipment Russia could provide and after this conflict is more likely to be inclined to provide.

    Igla-S and Kornet even in their early models are excellent weapons... the west manged to bind Russia into tightly controlling the sales and distribution of MANPADS because of the risk to civilian airliners and these weapons getting into the wrong hands... well after throwing 20K plus Stingers at Kiev and not having any idea of where they went or what they were used for they have no leg to stand on in the argument over Russian licence production deals for Igla-S to any country on the planet...

    These guys are fucking stupid , hey if they want to play nazi do it in private

    But play a stupid game, you win a stupid prize

    It is the nazis that know there is no point in surrendering... either death or a lifetime in prison... different people will have different views on that choice but either way the Russians should accommodate them...

    Good question . As you have previously said " .....they ( SAM systems ) can be overwhelmed .

    To actually overwhelm them you need really enormous numbers and AFAIK they haven't managed to overwhelm any Russian SAM batteries.

    They have overwhelmed individual vehicles that were operating on their own, but to overwhelm a fully deployed AD battery force they would need a serious concentration of force... which is what the Russians want... they want the Orcs to drive 12 HIMARS into position and start launching rockets at an AD site... especially if the AD site is fake because while they are hammering the site and destroying decoys the Russians can send drones to locate the launchers and monitor them and watch what building they drive in to to hide afterwards.

    Destroying 12 of those buildings is valuable because not only do you get the HIMARS vehicles but you also get their support crews and ammo and spare parts and support equipment.

    They get a couple of destroyed decoys... who cares... decoys are cheap and expendable and they are made to be destroyed so the real things get ignored.

    For some third world country some sneak attack could be mounted to take out their major air defence equipment, but the Russians are in a position where they can be on the look out for such an attack and take on the attackers during the attack to reduce its effectiveness and to cause damage.

    his implies a thinking , where remote detection was not or could not be carried out against a ground moving target . But is this assumption valid ? I know that AWACS in Iraq , could detect a column of advancing Iraqi Tanks

    They could in a flat open desert with no enemy jamming or forces attacking their radar platforms... equally there might be ESM equipment they might have to disguise their real forces or create false ones in places they want the enemy to attack.

    They have all sorts of radiation emitters to simulate SAM radars... search and tracking models so a dummy battery could be emitting all the signals and radar that a real battery emits... the only way to know it is not real is to destroy it and then capture the territory and have a look on the ground... which is unlikely to happen in this case.

    This information is then sent to their missiles and programmed in . However as far as I know , all missiles now , as well as relying on GPS navigation , Also use secondary navigation . In case of Himars , it is inertial and in case of cruise missile it is terrain following and with terminal video in real - time on local search area . And as you said other Radars are available that work on imaging particular targets in 3D . The Ukrainians have not been given Cruise missiles , but perhaps Harpoon also .

    Does not help them if there is only 6 rockets per vehicle which can be shot down in flight.

    But you said land based SAM can not do this ! And new design and alteration can not be done now , and bringing naval vessel close to land and loosing them not an option .

    SA-20 does not need to be anywhere near the front line of the battlefield and both TOR and Pantsir can fire while moving... it is the very big heavy SAMs that cannot be fired while moving... S-300 and S-400 and S-350, but their long range means they don't need to move very much at all.


    So the option left for S300 , apart from having SHORAD covering it , is to trade missile for missile

    Using long range heavy SAMs against artillery rockets would only be done in desperation... if this was WWIII against the US and it was fighting in Finland or Poland or Hungary the obvious solution would be to fire S-300 missiles at the HIMARS launchers themselves... they are very accurate against ground targets and you could use small nuclear warheads to get entire batteries with one missile if you wanted.

    Standard procedure is to base a Pantsir or TOR battery or two with each S-300 and S-400 and S-350 battery to deal with any threats to the larger SAMs.

    All candidates are hopeless and less than appealing, and the country simply has no-one better to offer. What a joke, so much for the "exceptionalist West"

    The quality of the leadership in the west is absolutely dire and a symptom that better people don't have much of a chance in such a job... you need to be teflon slippery if you want to make it to the top these days and if people have to disappear then they have to disappear.

    This results in a very specific type of person winning the race.

    They need personalities that know on which side the bread is buttered, can be trusted to kick the can along, and manage affairs without having being told explicitly what to do

    Exactly... they are actually better if they don't have intelligence... they need to shut up and look pretty and do as they are told... Boris flip flops so much he obviously didn't need to be pretty... well you can't argue he is pretty stupid.

    I am surprised there are not more dumb blonde jokes fired in his direction.

    The Antonovsky Bridge is getting hammered again tonight, probably by HIMARS.

    Hope so... the more they are used the easier it will be to track them all down.


    That footage is from the head of the Military-Civilian Administration of Kherson.

    Here is clearer footage, btw.

    The video you just posted has this under it...

    ‼ 🇺🇦 🏴☠ Ukrainian resources publish videos of shell hits on the Antonovsky Bridge, there have already been many such attacks
    It is not known whether the shooting is exactly fresh, but they beat, bastards, for sure. The supports, as usual, are intact and after the shelling, these holes in the canvas are sealed. In any case, another confirmation that the bridge withstands these attacks.

    So these are Ukrainian sources and the person posting the video does not believe these Ukrainian sources... they have no reason to of course...

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    Post  GarryB Wed Jul 27, 2022 8:09 am

    According to one Serbian analysts/journalists/whatever he is told by people on the ground that they don't bother with intercepting attacks on bridges because cost of missiles expended for interception is much higher than cost of fixing the damage to the bridge (or just using pontoons if it does go down)

    Which just highlights the common sense practical approach to war of the Serbs and the Russians.

    If this was a US held bridge they would be demanding a new version of Patriot that an shoot down artillery rockets... it will take ten years to modify and will only work half the time and cost billions of dollars and millions of dollars per missile... and likely not work, but even if it did they would buy 20 and not use them because they are too expensive.

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    Post  Regular Wed Jul 27, 2022 9:22 am

    zorobabel wrote:The Antonovsky Bridge is getting hammered again tonight, probably by HIMARS.

    https://twitter.com/RWApodcast/status/1552048505396543489


    According to Russian sources - they finally hit substructures and foundations. This bridge will be repaired after the war only. It’s basically a pedestrian bridge now. It took them what, a week and multiple launches just to damage it beyond the use? How are they expecting to destroy Crimean bridge then?

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    Post  Arrow Wed Jul 27, 2022 11:11 am

    Antonovsky Bridge again.

    https://twitter.com/spriteer_774400/status/1552203551673389057?t=qSIu43-StYuozhh_qYOt4A&s=19

    Even advanced anti-aircraft defense cannot saturate an artillery attack.
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    Post  Mir Wed Jul 27, 2022 12:20 pm

    I see a lot more holes this time around but still no collapsed span or anything very serious. Can be fixed if they want to - even if a span goes down, or just use a pontoon instead.
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    Post  GarryB Wed Jul 27, 2022 12:29 pm

    As mentioned, bridges can be rebuilt and temporary bridges can go up very quickly... even pontoon bridges... it does not always make sense to defend a target like this.

    The Crimean bridge has the problem that it is an enormous structure to defend... they don't have to hit it all... just taking out one section would be enough, but from the Russian perspective defending the entire bridge is important.

    We have seen barges near the bridge with corner reflectors on them creating a large radar return to fool anti ship missiles using radar guidance, but their advantage is that most of Kievs forces are out of range of the bridge so some sneaky attack would be needed and in volume again to overwhelm defences which will deal with only a few launches of a few weapons.

    At the end of the day this is mostly about pride... considering all the buildings they are building they could build a dozen smaller bridges, but over time as the Orcs get pushed back and out of Donbass territory attacks on bridges and things in their rear area will become much more difficult and costly.

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    Post  Hole Wed Jul 27, 2022 12:31 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Big_Gazza wrote:
    zorobabel wrote:The Antonovsky Bridge is getting hammered again tonight, probably by HIMARS.
    https://twitter.com/RWApodcast/status/1552048505396543489

    I'll wait and see before making any assumptions.  HIMARS is nothing special, so I don't see why Russian AD can't adequately protect the structure.

    According to one Serbian analysts/journalists/whatever he is told by people on the ground that they don't bother with intercepting attacks on bridges because cost of missiles expended for interception is much higher than cost of fixing the damage to the bridge (or just using pontoons if it does go down)





    If the need ever arises the Russian Army can build 5 or even 10 pontoon bridges to fix the problem.

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    Post  Hole Wed Jul 27, 2022 12:35 pm

    https://smoothiex12.blogspot.com/2022/07/schroeder-goes-to-moscow-and-other-items.html
    Includes a look at the very, very soon coming( Laughing) "offensive" to "liberate" Kherson.

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    Hurricanes and Sandstorms will hit Nazis soon. Very biblical.  Very Happy

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    Post  Belisarius Wed Jul 27, 2022 12:40 pm

    🇷🇺🇺🇦⚡In the Kherson region, air defense systems of the Russian Federation intercepted 10 shells of the Alder and HIMARS multiple launch rocket systems — RF Ministry of Defense
    https://t.me/intelslava/34015

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    Post  Belisarius Wed Jul 27, 2022 12:42 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 23 Img_2043
    🇷🇺🇺🇦 The forces of the LPR, DPR and the Russian Federation took control of the settlement of Novoluganskoye in the DPR, the LPR Ministry of Internal Affairs reported
    https://t.me/intelslava/33975

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    Post  Regular Wed Jul 27, 2022 12:53 pm

    Mir wrote:I see a lot more holes this time around but still no collapsed span or anything very serious. Can be fixed if they want to - even if a span goes down, or just use a pontoon instead.

    Nothing serious? This time it is serious and won't be repaired until UA artillery is in the range. You don't need to bring the bridge down for it to be non-functional. I bet Ukrainians will still attack it after day or two.
    Pontoons and barges will be used.
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    Post  PhSt Wed Jul 27, 2022 1:38 pm

    I was wondering, did Russia took the opportunity to locate the ukrop firing positions to take out their missile launchers? Perhaps Russia needs longer ranged izdeliye 305
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    Post  limb Wed Jul 27, 2022 1:42 pm

    PhSt wrote:I was wondering, did Russia took the opportunity to locate the ukrop firing positions to take out their missile launchers? Perhaps Russia needs longer ranged izdeliye 305

    How about send around 300 orion drones to scan every square km 24/7 that is within 185km of the bridge? Or send like 50 aircraft with recon pods begind Ukrainian fromtlines?
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    Post  lyle6 Wed Jul 27, 2022 1:43 pm

    Regular wrote:

    Nothing serious? This time it is serious and won't be repaired until UA artillery is in the range. You don't need to bring the bridge down for it to be non-functional. I bet Ukrainians will still attack it after day or two.
    Pontoons and barges will be used.

    As long as the piers are intact collapsed spans are not an issue. Metal prefab spans can be assembled onsite and emplaced in less than 2 hours.

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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 23 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  Regular Wed Jul 27, 2022 2:47 pm

    lyle6 wrote:
    Regular wrote:

    Nothing serious? This time it is serious and won't be repaired until UA artillery is in the range. You don't need to bring the bridge down for it to be non-functional. I bet Ukrainians will still attack it after day or two.
    Pontoons and barges will be used.

    As long as the piers are intact collapsed spans are not an issue. Metal prefab spans can be assembled onsite and emplaced in less than 2 hours.

    On Lancasters video about the bridge - official said they are waiting engineers from Moscow to check this. It was after the first attack. No one will do any fixing, Ukraine will most likely hit it again. There were pictures of barges already, good luck for Ukrainians hitting them.

    GarryB likes this post


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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 23 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

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