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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #20

    Werewolf
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    Post  Werewolf Sat Jul 16, 2022 7:36 pm

    Regular wrote:He is insane in the membrane and probably best to keep him on ignore list as he’s a lost cause. Stuck inside his own world.

    I criticise Russian army maybe too much, but sure as hell I am not blind to see that it outperforms itself in some regards. They literally needed to do triple somersault to impress me, and it did.

    If aviation is lacking (can’t deny neither confirm, very little info), then other branches are doing much better. Also, I think this as a hard learning experience. It’s not Iraq, Afghanistan or Syria, lessons from these conflicts are not relevant.

    Through out history empires and nations have very often exaggerated enemies strength which no other could have dealt with. That was the very case from ancient times to the US invasion of Iraq. While doing so they appeared even stronger than they actually were. Today we are shown that the Russians are just apes who have climbed down from the trees, to stupid to do anything, inferior as  a race and gruesome animal like creatures. Funnily enough this nation of imbeciles is currently defeating NATO's strongest spearhead while being the most sanctioned country in history to my knowledge while excelling in every aspect, be it economically, military or politically.

    Nation of ugly stupid orcs destroying the high-elf culture of wisdom,  freedom and peace.

    Ultimately the West shows only how weak they are and announce it world wide to upcoming and thriving nations like China, India, Turkey and any other nations developing sovereign politics.

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    Post  dionis Sat Jul 16, 2022 7:53 pm

    Given the situation on the grey line in Avdiivka over the years, are there any civilians left there? If not, why has the place not been leveled yet?
    PhSt
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    Post  PhSt Sat Jul 16, 2022 10:11 pm



    If Crimea is struck by NATzO missiles I would expect Russia to start dropping FOABS all over Ukro occupied territories.

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    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski Sat Jul 16, 2022 11:10 pm

    GarryB wrote " As long as he makes stupid decisions and remains ineffective there is no need to eliminate him because there is a risk he might be replaced by someone less greedy and self centred and someone competent who cares about his nazis and wants to save them from death. " I am not just talking about him , but entire Right sector , political leadership . Russia has to liberate the Russian speaking regions . This means defeating and withdrawal of Uki forces from these territories . It makes no difference if the political Nazi leadership is semi- intelligent , intelligent , vegetarian or otherwise wears a curly moustache ! The important fact is that they are organising the war effort . Any disturbance in command/political structure ( irrespective of political ideology or dietary preferences ) should be a military aim . But Russia has not made a single effort , that I know of , to eradicate the political leadership . But , there have been one or two attacks on military command and external arms suppliers .


    Also GarryB wrote " If it is safe enough for the civilians to escape it will be safe enough for the rats to stay up and shoot them as they try to leave.Russias problem is that even if the place is already empty of civis they can't know that so they have to treat every area as if it contains civilians...The core problem is that Russia does not want to kill civilians... Kiev and the west don't care... in fact they want them to kill civilians so they can make them look like the monsters from the west. " So what is the plan ? Encircle the entire Donbas and starve out the Rats ? But the civilians will starve with them . The only advantage that a large encirclement  will bring is that supplies of Ammo will dry up and the Rats will be in negative psychological territory . But they will then take hostages into tunnels , or shoot them - as you say , like Azovstal . And if you are right , a frontal assault will also lead them into taking hostages underground . So civilians in both cases are at risk . May be better to do a frontal assault in Donetsk . Concentrate forces in small area and defeat the Rats . Use infantry and make sure civis are evacuated / separated . Deliver a psychological blow against their best troops , like Mariupol . The rest of their Army , will loose initiative . The civilian hostages are equally at risk , either way .


    Last edited by nomadski on Sat Jul 16, 2022 11:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Sat Jul 16, 2022 11:27 pm

    PhSt wrote:

    If Crimea is struck by NATzO missiles I would expect Russia to start dropping FOABS all over Ukro occupied territories.

    Russia is cranking up attacks now to wrap this up. The Donbass will be liberated by the end of August. At the same time
    the rest of Ukria will be softened up for a quick roll up. Even if Russia does not seize Kiev, it will make sure to control all
    the economically relevant territories. Kiev will be a city without a country and will fall without military effort.

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    Belisarius


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    Post  Belisarius Sun Jul 17, 2022 2:23 am

    Martyanov comments about the garbage video from Binkov
    https://youtu.be/sWS7kaHzRNw

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    Backman
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    Post  Backman Sun Jul 17, 2022 2:25 am

    dionis wrote:Given the situation on the grey line in Avdiivka over the years, are there any civilians left there? If not, why has the place not been leveled yet?

    I don't think there's any doubt that Ukraine is going to start targeting Crimea , the bridge , Belgrod again ect.

    And it looks like Putin and the govt know this.

    The US through the Kiev regime can't take territory with all of their money and weapons. But they probably could very well take cheap shot terror attacks on Russia and the republics in perpetuity.

    The only way to end this is to chase the Kiev regime along with the US out of the territory. As long as a US embassy in Ukraine , the cheap shots will continue.

    This isn't going to be quick or easy

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    thegopnik
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    Post  thegopnik Sun Jul 17, 2022 2:38 am

    4chan meme

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #20 - Page 37 16580110

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    Backman
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    Post  Backman Sun Jul 17, 2022 2:41 am

    News

    Ukrainian Cargo plane carrying NATO weapons/ammunition has crashed in Greece. The plane flew from Serbia to Jordan and crashed near the city of Kavala.

    Before the crash, the pilot gave a distress signal and informed the dispatcher about the engine failure. It can be seen that the plane caught fire while still in the air, and after the fall there was a powerful explosion. It is reported that 8 crew members were killed. Electricity supply was interrupted in nearby settlements.

    Greece withdraws all firefighters due to “unknown toxic materials on the plane” as a precaution

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    Big_Gazza
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    Post  Big_Gazza Sun Jul 17, 2022 2:49 am

    dionis wrote:Given the situation on the grey line in Avdiivka over the years, are there any civilians left there? If not, why has the place not been leveled yet?
    AFAIK the Banderites don't permit the residents of fortified areas like Avdiivka and Maryinka to move away and leave the potential combat zone.  They want them to stay so that they function as human shields so that any mass attacks on the town will cause mass casualties among the DPRs own people.  Ukro don't give a sht about the lives of these people as the "pure-bloods" of Banderstan despise the people in Donbass as being sub-human "mongoloids". They are quite content to use them and watch them die. angry

    Looking forward to seeing the Orcs exterminated in the 4th Age (of Man), Lord of the Rings style...

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    Post  lyle6 Sun Jul 17, 2022 2:52 am

    Ned86 wrote:Does anyone have an idea how many strategic cruise missiles were used so far by Russia ?
    I mean Kh101 and Kalibr missiles ?
    Also, any idea how much of these can be supplied by year ?
    1500 per year.
    https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2013/07/08/cruise-missile-engine-manufacturing-localized-a25633

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    Backman
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    Post  Backman Sun Jul 17, 2022 2:53 am

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    caveat emptor
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    Post  caveat emptor Sun Jul 17, 2022 5:13 am

    It's an Ukrainian plane that was carrying ammo from Serbia to Jordan. End destination, probably, Libya.

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    Post  mnztr Sun Jul 17, 2022 5:36 am

    Is Russia doing any low level supersonic passes at night to keep the enemy awake and afraid? Would be a cheap way to degrade the opposition
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    Post  Backman Sun Jul 17, 2022 7:12 am

    mnztr wrote:Is Russia doing any low level supersonic passes at night to keep the enemy awake and afraid? Would be a cheap way to degrade the opposition

    There's a video on telegram of a Hohol who is very close to an su 25 attack. The ordnance followed by the shriek of the jet is just crazy. The guy is scared nearly stiff. I'll try and find it

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    Backman
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    Post  Backman Sun Jul 17, 2022 7:14 am

    Good round table.

    Larry Johnson , Alexander Mecurois and Andre Martynov

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    ALAMO


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    Post  ALAMO Sun Jul 17, 2022 7:46 am

    lyle6 wrote:
    Ned86 wrote:Does anyone have an idea how many strategic cruise missiles were used so far by Russia ?
    I mean Kh101 and Kalibr missiles ?
    Also, any idea how much of these can be supplied by year ?
    1500 per year.
    https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2013/07/08/cruise-missile-engine-manufacturing-localized-a25633

    THat is a very old entry bro.
    In March only, Novator increased employment by 500 people.
    I will not make any judgments about the number, but they have switched for a semi-war production I guess.
    Very same applies to the other suppliers, and we hear again ad again that new samples of precision guided weaponry is being presented. Each of those has its own production cap.

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    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Sun Jul 17, 2022 8:25 am

    kvs wrote:
    PhSt wrote:

    If Crimea is struck by NATzO missiles I would expect Russia to start dropping FOABS all over Ukro occupied territories.

    Russia is cranking up attacks now to wrap this up.   The Donbass will be liberated by the end of August.   At the same time
    the rest of Ukria will be softened up for a quick roll up.   Even if Russia does not seize Kiev, it will make sure to control all
    the economically relevant territories.   Kiev will be a city without a country and will fall without military effort.


    I don't think the SMO will be over completely

    The donbass will be liberated, but demilitarization would not be achieved

    Even if all economically productive regions are taken, and MIC of Ukraine destroyed

    The west can still continue to arm Ukraine and keep pushing them to attack liberated areas

    So it requires a push beyond Donbass to turn Ukraine into a large sort of Gaza

    Where Russia continually fires on the country and demilitarizes it with some kind of occupation that goes on like Gaza or West Bank

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    TMA1
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    Post  TMA1 Sun Jul 17, 2022 9:07 am

    caveat emptor wrote:It's an Ukrainian plane  that was carrying ammo from Serbia to Jordan. End destination, probably, Libya.

    Uh... was this a spook operation taken out by Russia?

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sun Jul 17, 2022 9:47 am

    Does anyone have an idea how many strategic cruise missiles were used so far by Russia ?
    I mean Kh101 and Kalibr missiles ?
    Also, any idea how much of these can be supplied by year ?

    Technically probably zero... the missiles they will be using in WWIII will be nuclear armed and not conventional... no point mucking around taking out a specific part of a building when you can level the whole block with the same missile.

    Similar like FPS games on a console where the aim-acquisition button helps to keep your crosshair on an enemy soldier. Both Russians and Americans have this system and works almost identical with some exceptions, which I have stated somewhere in the Ka-50/52 thread.

    It is not magic... a piece of video processing software scans the real time video for groups of pixels moving together forming an object and pattern recognition components of the software try to recognise parts... the software in a phone will detect a human face by detecting eyes and nose and mouth to identify and focus on a face in the picture and it will then track that face within the image to keep the focus on the person in the image.

    Their optically guided missiles like Pantsir and Tunguska and Kornet etc etc all use the same processing that requires the processing power of your average cell phone... which is bugger all.

    On a thermal channel you can track humans simply by tracking objects that show pixel colours in the human body temperature range...

    Vikhr moves in a helix flight path spiraling towards its target.

    The appearance of a spiral flight path is created by the tracking flare or light on the tail of the missile used to work out where the missile is from the launch platforms perspective is at the fin tip so as the missile rolls in flight the missile appears to be spiraling but in fact it is just spinning on its axis.

    The spiral effect helps the missile tracking system distinguish the outgoing missile that is an IR spot or visible flare spot that is spiraling from other IR spots or visible burning objects on the battlefield that don't spiral as they burn.

    The new production ATGMs replace rear facing flares with rear facing IR LEDs like those used in remote controls. They are located on fin tips and also pulsed in a specific pattern to avoid confusion with other IR sources on the battlefield trying to fool you.

    The Ka-52 can guide two Vikhr's at once with its guidance system, which is hard to do with automatic guidance unless Okhotnik 100% of the time can distinguish two targets one from the other. If you have two targets in one frame you can launch the second Vikhr 5 seconds after the first one. This will be enough time to adjust the cursor after impact of the first Vikhr and move it on the second target and kill two targets with manual guidance.

    To be fair manual guidance in this case is not joystick flying the missile or missiles to target, but instead maintaining the aim point on the target so that the system points the laser at the point of aim... once the first missile has hit you move the point of aim to another target preferably beyond the first target and not too far off angle so the second missile can turn to the new target in time to hit it.

    Some well protected targets with APS might need two close together missile hits to ensure their destruction like a front on shot at a modern MBT so you would maintain lock on the same target after the impact of the first missile to hit it again... perhaps to increase lethality. (penetrating in two locations increases the chances of directly hitting fuel or ammo or crew positions).

    [quote]And I always wonder Russia should have hundreds (if not thousands) of the older generation Kh-55 and those monster Kh-22 in storage, manufactured in the late eighties and early nineties. They would be a bit less accurate but can be used on large size targets in Ukraine. I hope they have used them instead of them just rusting away in storage.[/quoet]

    They upgraded their anti ship missiles to allow land attack capability and the old Kh-22M missiles are unpopular because they have to be fuelled up before launch and the fuel is super toxic and nasty... using them up on land targets would be a good way to get some practical use out of them yet also get the job done and free up space for new missiles being put into service.

    Their HE payloads were rather large so they would be very effective against ground targets and their radar guidance would allow them to hit specific buildings in all weathers day or night effectively enough.

    Ultimately the West shows only how weak they are and announce it world wide to upcoming and thriving nations like China, India, Turkey and any other nations developing sovereign politics.

    The west is showing that investing everything in propaganda wins the propaganda war but only your home audience listens to your propaganda so winning that is a hollow victory if you lose on the actual battlefield, which they are.

    If Crimea is struck by NATzO missiles I would expect Russia to start dropping FOABS all over Ukro occupied territories.

    Russia made it pretty clear it sees Crimea as being Russian territory... if the Zelensky regime think it is an OK use of HATO supplied weapons I would say that was a signal that Kiev needs new management... kill off the entire Rada and start again perhaps...

    The important fact is that they are organising the war effort . Any disturbance in command/political structure ( irrespective of political ideology or dietary preferences ) should be a military aim . But Russia has not made a single effort , that I know of , to eradicate the political leadership . But , there have been one or two attacks on military command and external arms suppliers .

    If the enemy leadership are incompetent don't give them the opportunity to upgrade.

    Zelensky is a TV actor... him in charge of a country would be like Alec Baldwin being US president... sure he has killed someone in cold blood but he blamed everyone else but himself so he is probably overqualified to be US president...

    So what is the plan ? Encircle the entire Donbas and starve out the Rats ? But the civilians will starve with them . The only advantage that a large encirclement  will bring is that supplies of Ammo will dry up and the Rats will be in negative psychological territory . But they will then take hostages into tunnels , or shoot them - as you say , like Azovstal . And if you are right , a frontal assault will also lead them into taking hostages underground . So civilians in both cases are at risk . May be better to do a frontal assault in Donetsk . Concentrate forces in small area and defeat the Rats . Use infantry and make sure civis are evacuated / separated . Deliver a psychological blow against their best troops , like Mariupol . The rest of their Army , will loose initiative . The civilian hostages are equally at risk , either way .

    First of all you can't control everything so don't even try. Cut them off from relieve and supplies and then chip away at their positions... snipers and mortars and direct fire weapons hitting firing points.... Russia can take as much time as they need, there is no urgency. Intercept radio communications... and talk to the enemy... make offers for releasing civilians etc etc... keep telling them they can surrender and will be treated with respect if they do... the longer they are stuck there without support and with civilians eating and drinking or starving in front of them the less their resolve to hold out. Some hard core nutters might enjoy watching the civilians suffer with them but it is rather unlikely they will all be hard core nutters, and those reasonable people will feel trapped like rats and those offers of deals are going to start to look better and better over the days and weeks.

    Even the use of drones to attack their positions inside their defence from unexpected angles would be useful too... that wing mounted plastic box with enlarged grenades would be handy in a drone with thermal imagers to operate 24/7... keep them awake and feel threatened 24/7... lack of sleep and food will get to them.

    Stress levels...

    Greece withdraws all firefighters due to “unknown toxic materials on the plane” as a precaution

    Is it Chlorine gas or Novachok?

    Ukrainian Cargo plane carrying NATO weapons/ammunition has crashed in Greece. The plane flew from Serbia to Jordan and crashed near the city of Kavala.

    Hang on... Ukrainian transport plane picks up HATO weapons and ammo from Serbia and crashes in Greece on its way to Jordan... wonder why it is taking HATO weapons and ammo to the middle east instead of the conflict zone... or did they sell it before they took off so was taking it direct to their new customer... that is funny.

    1500 per year.

    Wouldn't trust the Moscowtimes very much... it is a 5th column rag owned by a Baltic state AFAIK... it is an English language publication that gets handed out for free at bus stops and air ports and public places.... people don't pay for it...

    Is Russia doing any low level supersonic passes at night to keep the enemy awake and afraid? Would be a cheap way to degrade the opposition

    Waste of fuel and why risk the pilots... better to give them more constructive roles like killing nazis.

    Where Russia continually fires on the country and demilitarizes it with some kind of occupation that goes on like Gaza or West Bank

    The west is going to continue to escalate and Russia is going to continue to respond... this is not going to be an occupation war like Afghanistan etc...

    Eventually the Russians are going to raise the stakes and Kievs forces are going to realise there is no chance of winning or getting a normal life and those that don't  follow Americas orders will take over and Russia can talk to them.

    Removing those that don't want peace will be a prerequisite I would think... the question is will they go quietly or will Russia need to assist or will it all be handled internally by people not wanting to commit suicide against Russian artillery just to please the west.

    Of course shutting off gas to the EU might do the trick... how many western countries will want support for Ukraine to continue when their own economies are collapsing around their ears...

    Uh... was this a spook operation taken out by Russia?

    Or a friendly Serb who does not like Ukrainians slipped a block of explosive in with the ammo with a fuse to make it explode in 2 or 3 hours.

    The fact that it was headed to Jordan suggests it might have been for the black market anyway.


    Last edited by GarryB on Sun Jul 17, 2022 10:13 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  JohninMK Sun Jul 17, 2022 11:32 am

    Backman wrote:News

    Ukrainian Cargo plane carrying NATO weapons/ammunition has crashed in Greece. The plane flew from Serbia to Jordan and crashed near the city of Kavala.

    Do we know Il-76 or An-124?

    How come it uplifted NATO 'stuff' in Serbia?
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    Post  George1 Sun Jul 17, 2022 11:39 am

    JohninMK wrote:

    Do we know Il-76 or An-124?

    An-12


    Last edited by George1 on Sun Jul 17, 2022 11:48 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  George1 Sun Jul 17, 2022 11:47 am

    JohninMK wrote:

    How come it uplifted NATO 'stuff' in Serbia?

    Company says that the destination was Bangladesh via Jordan and S.Arabia and has no relation with Ukraine

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    Post  Kiko Sun Jul 17, 2022 11:56 am

    Further details:

    An-12 crashed in Greece was carrying 11.5 tons of Serbian weapons to Bangladesh., 17.07.2022.

    The aircraft belonged to a Ukrainian company and was transporting Serbian cargo by order of the Bangladesh Ministry of Defense. The Serbian Ministry of Defense specified that the An-12 was loaded with mines. All eight crew members were killed.

    The Ukrainian An-12 military transport aircraft that crashed in Greece was transporting 11.5 tons of Serbian weapons to Bangladesh, Serbian Defense Minister Nebojsa Stefanovic said at a press conference, his words are quoted by the Tanjug agency.

    According to the Ministry of Defense, all eight crew members died in the crash, and there were no citizens of Serbia among them.

    The assumptions of some media that the An-12 was carrying weapons to Ukraine, Stefanovich called "malicious."

    He clarified that the aircraft took off on July 16 at 20:40 (21:40 Moscow time) from the Serbian city of Nish and was supposed to land in Amman, Riyadh and Ahmedabad on the way to Dhaka. According to him, it belonged to a Ukrainian company and was transporting cargo from a Serbian company on behalf of the Bangladesh Ministry of Defense. The head of the Serbian military department specified that the plane was loaded with lighting and training mines.

    “This flight had all the necessary permits in accordance with international rules,” Stefanovich said, adding that since 2016, no permits have been issued to import weapons from Serbia to Ukraine or Russia.

    https://www.rbc.ru/society/17/07/2022/62d3c13e9a794797c557bd11

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    Serberus
    Serberus


    Posts : 294
    Points : 296
    Join date : 2022-02-24

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #20 - Page 37 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #20

    Post  Serberus Sun Jul 17, 2022 12:12 pm

    The moment I read “nato weapons from Serbia”…knew it was BS and either wankers trying to stir shit or uninformed people who have no business in being a “news source” even on TG being clueless.
    Serbia will never arm a NATO puppet state or be a staging point for nato supplies, and if any idiotic pro west politician in Serbia tries, they know it would be the last thing they do.

    GarryB, Regular, littlerabbit, Backman and Arkanghelsk like this post


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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #20 - Page 37 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #20

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      Current date/time is Sat Aug 20, 2022 5:22 am