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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #19

    Big_Gazza
    Big_Gazza


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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #19 - Page 15 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #19

    Post  Big_Gazza Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:43 am

    Isos wrote:
    Big_Gazza wrote:
    Isos wrote:S-500 is a useless weapon.

    Credibility is like virginity.  Once its gone it can't be regained, and you just lost your bud.  Razz

    When would it be useful ?

    A su-57 can be used against any enemy which makes it a valuable weapon.

    S-500 is designed for intercepting ICBM so only useful in a nuclear war so totally useless because missiles will fly everywhere. Pantsir and tors are more useful than s-500.

    S-500 is for interception of both tactical and strategic weapons to provide defense of cities and vital infrastructure (OTH radar, bomber bases, sub bases etc), and has capabilities against anti-satellite and meso-atmospheric hypersonics. Think of it as a much improved S-300V4 (which photos indicate it closely resembles).

    If Murkans dare to use conventionally-armed theatre MRMB/IRBMs they will find them taken down in short order.

    Think of S-500 as both an insurance policy for future developments and as a warning to NATOstani quislings. We are ready for you if you want to get stupid, and you won't be able to handle our response should such stupidity ever be attempted Twisted Evil

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    Arkanghelsk
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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #19 - Page 15 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #19

    Post  Arkanghelsk Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:59 am

    sundoesntrise wrote:
    If anything Russia dumping its oil (30 percent discount) on the cheap in India is a sign of weakness and massive hurdles down the road. A lot of this is simply the advantage that goes with pressing an advantage (or more, sneak attack).

    That's nice bullshit there! So you are spinning that Russia becoming Indian #2 oil producer, selling less volumes at higher profit is weakness? 

    Lmao it's like admiral Kirby spinning that getting tossed out of kabul was a good thing 😂 


    So yes, when the Europe cuts itself off from Russia (or in some cases is cut off by Russia) Europe will pay what they have to. At least for this month/year. And after that it will be done.

    Later, when they rework the supply chain to exclude Russia and still get the fuel; that's it for Russia having a major oil-export industry; unless they want to compete with KSA for position of bottom bitch to China. Spoiler alert: you do NOT want to compete with SA for being China's bottom bitch.

    Except Russia is already #1 oil supplier to China, and played with OPEC to switch clients- while KSA will sell to EU at premium prices, Russia got the volume sales to China and will sell at discount

    That being said the KSA will not be able to make up the loss of Russian gas to EU, and EU is facing a hard recession and is sounding the alarm midway through the summer

    While Russias account surplus, Budget, and sovereign funds soar to record levels, that's not even mentioning the recovery of the Ruble to record levels as the strongest currency in the world 2022.

    Some sheisters and spinsters will spew the liberast line that this is bad, but for Russia to make trade attractive, it's currency must be coveted by trade partners and held in their banks

    The EU might not want rubles, but opened accounts anyway, and it will play out this way for all Ruble denominated trade, we will see a USD/Ruble rate of 40 soon

    By merely playing this game at all Russia has now killed their reputation in debt markets. The west will take a massive one on the chin and sell off its in-country operations on the cheap; but that's the last western dollar/Euro Russia's going to see for the next 40 years

    Which is fine, Russia US trade was negligible, and those OFZ bonds were the biggest investment , now China and India can step in and either replace their investments or make altogether new ones, not to mention pirating the carcasses of western business- think Russian version of McDonald's, Ikea, Clothing retail, Computers, and phones, software,  and just go on

    Look at the horizon 5-10 years from now. My point was about the long term trends which you conveniently chose to ignore and instead went into drone tier babbling about an impending western collapse. Russia routinely needs western investment to survive. They also need access to the same credit markets that every other nation needs access to.

    The credit markets were never a major source of Russian growth or economic life, consider again that Russia does not run budget deficits , and issue currency like western Central banks do

    FDI didn't build the Olympic complex , or the world cup infrastructure, but the sovereign wealth fund did. 

    Russia is built differently in this sense, and for the west it was a great shock to see those sanctions slide off 


    Only now, russia has cut themselves off. Basically forever (or until Putin and his people are gone). No, Russia won't collapse but if you want to get a glimpse of the future take a look at Cuba or Iran because that's where you are heading. The Chinese (and Indians) love the prospect. Nice friends you got there buddy!

    Not quite, Cuba and Iran are not resource centers, and definitely not military industrial powers

    The comparison is a joke , Russia is still trading with Turkey, India, China, and is selling big goods in those directions. Even with India, the results in 2 months are eyewatering , and the US is worried about it, they say that they miscalculated how much oil is actually being sold. Talk about fatal error, yikes building the BRICS back better 😬 


    They can pump all the oil they have, but if the only people buying is China and to a lesser extent India (and both of these have diversification policies in place and are now just topping up strategic reserves), they won't earn enough to keep extracting the same quantities. No, not this week, but down the line.

    Russia is already shifting to a domestic market - it can satisfy its own market, and supplant trade with Turkey, China, India, and do remember it will buy things from those countries that are necessary to other industries - not just gas/oil

    If you believe the same talking points as the usual suspects, you'll end up scratching your head like them when you realize you have created a new G8 Bloc of emerging market economies

    Putin couldn't have done it on his own, but with the help of western partners, it looks like BRICS is taking off, better late than never

    In that light the current remarks by Putin and Co. about Russia and Europe needing each other in terms of cooperation in vital areas of mutual interest isn't that strange. It's weakness bruv, not strength.

    In the case of Europe, there are many ways to get oil and gas there. Here the bottleneck is the next 6 to 24 months as they haven't sufficiently prepared for this calamity. The only way for Russia to stop those ways is to openly declare war on NATO, which I don't think Putin is willing to do.

    The link between those two thoughts is not well , and it's like the usual CNN / Pentagon wet dream, but they will never get it! 

    The EU volume of trade will continue albeit reduced, and as repeated, that reduction was supplanted by India and China

    Also oil prices factor into this, unless another oil producer can change supply dynamics to Europe, the collective west is looking at 100+ USD oil/barrel. In that paradigm, Russia can lower production and make more money than the 2014-2022 one, where massive volumes at discounted prices were the norm, now Russia can sell to partners at discount, and reduced supplies to EU at premium 

    No amount of fracking or pumping in the good old USA will change that either, because unless you can transport to the EU for similar prices, that economy just won't work,  so lot of work ahead for europeans if they want to keep the same quality of life 

    Producing nations need consumer nations too, remember. Removing European demand; where is russia going to go to replace it? India? China? If they try that, then they're now competing with Opec, as stated before. Africa? OK, have at it - if you can afford the round trips at least.

    As for my other remarks, I am telling you is that all the macros are pointing at global recession/depression which will lead to severely decreased oil prices, as has happened over and over and over in history when high oil prices trigger a recession and demand destruction. If you want to call me a shill for noting that, sure whatever.

    The global recession is here, and some will get out of it, because the only way out of this one is to cooperate and open trading

    If the EU wants to restrict its own markets,  the US can eat its lunch

    But once the EU is just a pile of bones,  the second question is : where will the US consume? 

    Latin America is a good starting point for a new regional American economic integration , but after the shit that was pulled in Ukraine,  well let's just say nasty surprises will be arranged there for western partners 

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    kvs
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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #19 - Page 15 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #19

    Post  kvs Fri Jun 24, 2022 8:17 am

    It is really pathetic the desperation to push the line that Russia is economically screwed when it is readily apparent that
    it is the west that is screwed. They had a good thing going with living off Russian resources. Those days are over
    and the inflation is proving this.

    The western clowns are now under the delusion that Russia will fail in fall. Why would it? What process is subject to a
    half year lag? All the supply chain and financial disruptions are already old news. But Russia's inflation is negative.

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    GarryB
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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #19 - Page 15 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #19

    Post  GarryB Fri Jun 24, 2022 8:17 am

    Supposedly, two Caesar SPGs were captured (or deserted) intact and promptly shipped to Nizhny Tagil.

    Could just be trolling by an UVZ employee, who knows.

    According to RT the source of the capture was a French person complaining about Micron, so it may be just politics.

    UVZ just trolled them in response... I doubt they could have captured it, stripped it down and examined it in that time anyway.

    It doesn't take a genius to figure out what Germany's modernization plans are about, who they're aimed against and what the low hanging fruits are. The EU (Germany/France/Poland + UK/US) will not allow Russia as an economic, political competitor in Europe.

    But their efforts in that direction  for the last 30 years have mostly backfired and made Russia more independent and stronger.

    Between that and Polish ambitions and talks of annexing Kaliningrad.... you're seeing the impending danger, and machinations in motion that place that Russian enclave in serious permanent danger. It won't be long before either the Germans or Polish qualify Kaliningrad as Russian "occupied territory" with U.S/UK backing.

    Move some nukes there and tell the local commander to use them if needed...

    Now the dimwitts will claim "nuke Germany, nuke Poland" as the solution to any military move on Kaliningrad but we know damn well the Russian leadership ain't gonna do shit like that and trade Kaliningrad for Moscow. Thus, NATO is working towards a fait acompli when it comes to Kaliningrad.

    Nukes are not worth a damn if they are not going to be used.

    Tactical nukes in Kaliningrad would easily wipe out any troop concentrations needed for any invasion.... and any extra ones can be pointed at local capital cities if they want to respond in kind.

    I just hope 3-4 years from now I won't have to hear the cries pouring out of Moscow about the evil West bent on their destruction by doing some provocation around that region. Russians have been plenty warned and the indicators are all over the place letting you know what Russia's enemies are planning, and their targets.

    Russia is doing to Ukraine what needs to be done to protect Russia and Russian territories.

    The west has no reason to get involved in the Ukraine except to damage Russia.

    If the west thinks they could invade Kaliningrad and take it then they are dumber than they look... have you not heard of Sevastopol or Leningrad...

    The cargo disruption by Lithuania is just but one Salvo of many more to come as the pieces of the puzzle start to align for Russia's enemies. German army modernization been one of many moving puzzle parts.

    Lithuania being a dick is hardly a salvo... they are a weak little country a long way from help by their HATO allies.

    The German Army is not what it used to be and will need serious money spent on it to fix it... at a time when Covid is still being paid for and gas prices are not going to go down any time soon.

    The current Russian leadership either has the choice of merely crying in public and dismissing the cargo embargo as a provocation handed down from Washington (aka "we must not take the bait" fake wise guy opinion) or taking the matter seriously and ensuring that Kaliningrad is able to be defended by conventional means against a NATO incursion of Poland/Germany (after getting beefed up militarily in 3-5 yrs)....

    It would make no sense to send large volumes of military forces into such an isolated surrounded area.

    As I said... tactical nuclear weapons to defend the soverignty of Russian territory has been authorised and spelled out by their defence minister.

    If the Russian leadership truly believes the slogans that come out from their mouthpieces about a "definitive" break with the West then there shouldn't surprise anyone when in the future a crises of this magnitude manifests itself for Kaliningrad or anything elsewhere. The real question is, you knew the potential..... what did you about it to position yourself in the best possible way to defend your territory?

    The situation in the Ukraine was simple. Attack and destroy Kiev... or attack and destroy HATO.

    A land route and strategically cutting off the Baltic stooges from the rest of NATO by land is imperative. The more the Russian leadership postpones this action (slicing Lithuania and stealing some of its land) the harder it will get to solve it later down the road.

    Hilarious... you say nukes are off the table but suggest Russia invades Lithuania to get a land bridge to Kaliningrad.

    That wont end up in nukes of course...

    just like in 2014 when the U.S flipped Ukraine, to then change tune quick like a whore when rent money comes due 8 years later (since this Special Operation got announced)... but you're only shooting yourself in the foot and lauding how wise you're by doing it.

    Ukraine wasn't worth destroying in 2014... now they have had their chances to take the diplomatic and peaceful route and they chose war for themselves.

    Whether the US or UK or Germany pushed them, it is their feet on the minefield, they have no one to blame but themselves.

    But but... "it will look horrible if Russia tries to annex Lithuanian territory"... no one gives a shit dummy.

    Lithuania is part of HATO dummy, Russia attacking them no matter how they justify it will invoke article 5 and start WWIII  dummy.

    Kaliningrad is going to have to learn to be an island... lots of places around the world manage just fine to not have an umbilical cord link to the home country...

    Don't cry later about the massing of NATO troops at your border through the stooges,

    Troop masses are easy to target and we can probably guess that Iskander will get through...

    Same shit when the U.S fought for its war of independence really by interfering when Russia should have allowed the UK/France to devour it. Now centuries later... Russia pays the price in blood. Divide and conquer works... learn it stupid.

    If they played the same stupid games the west plays I would not care about their future.

    You are always the first to say russian system would easily deal with any subsonic missiles and tomahawks would never hit Russian targets.

    I am, but you are saying that one man is a soldier or police officer and is wearing a bullet proof vest so why are the bad guys or enemy troops able to kill friendly civilians.

    Russian air defence systems are limited in number but the potential targets that exist in Russia outnumber the air defence systems by 1,000 to one.

    Obviously far worse in any western country.

    When the bad guy sees the cops or the troops he can see their vests and so he just has to wait for them to walk past and some rich white guy they can shoot they do.

    Claiming Russian air defence systems can shoot down threats is proven. Claiming that American police are all armed so how can nut cases kill people in mass shootings is stupid because air defence systems like police cannot be everywhere all the time and defend everyone and every thing... that is just stupid.

    Russian air defence will be able to stop most attacks, and certainly attacks on the forces they are using to destroy the source of these attacks... which is about all you can hope for.

    An air force would hunt the drone operators, destroy the airports and would go at the enemy instead of waiting for him to come.

    You do understand that these drones are military devices that operate on autopilots that do not require to be manually flown... they generally use waypoints.

    BTW radio frequency emissions include cell phones and radio equipment on both sides how many troops are you committing to sitting in a van listening to signals and trying to locate them?

    And why are you bollocking on about airports... the Ukraine is not a small country... how do you destroy an airport? Especially for drone operations that might takeoff in 50m strips?

    Tor and pantsir will sure destroy drones but it's sukhoi that makes you win a war.

    Su-35s are busy hunting other threats and take off... engage their targets and then land.... they don't loiter 24/7 and they would be an incredibly inefficient way of dealing with drones except for the large ones like MALES and HALES.

    S-500 is a useless weapon. Because when used it will be just during a nuclear mutual destruction.

    If the west keeps escalating things it might be used to take down western elint platforms thought to be assisting the orcs... it would certainly create an excellent no fly zone over the region when needed.

    It is also a necessary component of air defence in regard to ballistic threats and also likely hypersonic threats too.

    He is right. Russia tries to covers all of its windows with defensive weapons instead of hunting the enemy with attack weapons.

    That is your mistake... Russia is currently Mike Tyson smashing the shit out of Kiev and these pin prick attacks is the guy Tyson is currently literally beating to death reaching around and tickling Mikes ass trying to distract him... mean while the orcs are getting hammered... who cares if an oil refinery burns for a bit in Russia... the price the Ukraine will pay is to be counted up and it will be paid in full.

    They don't have to mount these attacks and the fact that they do means more pain for them... and less kindness from Russia.

    They are digging their own graves.

    Tor and pantsir can be as good as you want they can't win a war with them.

    They were never intended to win the war... they stop the victim from blocking Mikes hits...

    They know where ukrainian bases are, where political leadership is, where advanced position are... load the su-24 and attack them first before they attack you. That's how you win a war.

    Are you honestly trying to say that the Ukrainians are sitting in their bases and would stay there after HATO tells them there are Su-34s or Su-24s in the air headed towards Kiev?

    There can be no agreements over this conflict... it has to be unconditional surrender and Zelensky is being paid too well to consider that so of course he has to go but right now he is not making good decisions and is not being effective as a leader so why get rid of him now?

    The Nazis still control Kiev and much of the country so they need to be softened or destroyed before any surrender is possible... when the opposition to Zelensky is stronger and has a chance of taking over... then get rid of Zelensky... if you do it now his replacements will be nazis and the first thing they will do is trying to clear out any moderates that could talk to Russia and make agreements with them.

    Not by waiting in your s-400 that is uterally useless in Ukraine and launching kalibrs here and there few times a month.

    Launching calibrs a few times a month?

    The Ukraine air force is effectively gone... when they smuggle parts into the country and assemble it and launch it it gets immediately shot down... their air support does not exist.... I doubt HATO air power would last much longer except with larger numbers they will have to use more missiles.

    The first night they should have had 400 sukhoi loaded each with 24 bombs and rotating at least 3 times each.

    The first few weeks were spent taking down the strongest air defence network ever taken down... they also destroyed aircraft on the ground and fuel and ammo depots... of which in a country this size there are tens of thousands and they are still destroying them...

    They may get a few ideas from it but its nothing special.

    And it would take more than a week to take a proper look and properly assess the system.

    Russia kills or wounds 1.000+ Nazi troops daily, hits and destroys important targets and closes another cauldron, then the Kiev regime comes up with some invented "victory" (like a burning trashbin somewehere in Siberia) and the same special members pop up writing the same stuff over and over again.

    To rub salt in the wound they claim it is proof that Russia and the Soviet Union wasted their time with air defence systems and should have made more air planes... ignoring the fact that they developed defences because they were the victims of aggression, while the aggressor continued to make more planes and use them to bomb countries for little to no reason...

    Russia defends itself... and the west has his period... and it all gets very bloody...

    Actually there is a pretty simple way to disable an airport. It is called containerized bomblet dispersal unit. Basically a cruise missile which has a mix of explosives and anti-personnel mines. The explosives wreck the runway and the anti-personnel mines will maim anyone trying to clear the rubble. There were agreements in the 1990s in several initiatives to ban the use of mines which removed this weapon from most countries arsenals. I think Russia and the US never signed that treaty.

    Yeah, except mine clearing gear is cheap and widespread and will quickly clear mines on the surface like the ones dropped from cruise missiles and even the serious cratering munitions make holes that can be quickly filled in. You wont be able to operate C-5s there but drones wont have any problem... in fact drones can operate from strips of road or open fields...

    There is no rush. The Baltics are fish in a barrel basically. Any troops NATO sends there will be sitting ducks. I am way more concerned with Finland to be honest. I mean their army is non-existant, it would basically turn into guerrilla warfare from day one, the problem would be length of supply lines to hold the terrain. Russia could just bomb the shit out of them with strategic bombardment and call it a day, but I think they would have to enlarge the security perimeter around St. Petersburg to maximum standard rocket artillery range. Maybe more.

    Finland are not threat, they don't want to invade Russia, and any US troops based on their territory would be nuke target material... a decisive shock to the Americans to make them realise they wont get to fight by remote control... a follow up strike on Brussels or the Pentagon with a conventionally armed hypersonic missile would get them talking peace terms.

    Ukraine was a direct threat to Russia... they were planning an invasion that would include attacking the Crimea, but the territory around Crimea and on Russias border in the Lugansk and Donbass are friendlies... albeit friendlies in need of help.

    If Finland invades Russia to take back whatever territory they think is theirs then nuke em... nothing to preserve or defend... that region does not need to be populated as far as Russia is concerned.

    Ironically if Finland was not in HATO which it isn't right now then agreements state it would help Russia defend itself from countries attacking through Finland... in which case there would be no nukes allowed... but Finland joining HATO makes things much easier and cheaper.

    You also seem to think NATO is a unified block when it is quite far from it. Right now they have all the financial incentives to continue their hybrid war on Russia. Take those out, and you will see them fragment quite easily.

    They are attacking Russia because they think the Russian economy will collapse without them and when it does Putin will get replaced by someone they can bribe or threaten or is already on their side like Navalny...

    Any replacement for Putin will not give the west a second thought... no trade... limited cooperation... bigger military budget...

    American is not Russia/late USSR. They know how to keep their backyard in check.

    They are the brutal murderers they have always been... military prisons and CIA detention centres are not new and the murderers they have helped and supported because they did what they were told are too numerous to count. Needless to say Saddam was their best friend for quite some time before he wasn't... and then he was demonised... even the current leader of Saudi Arabia is at times a hero for womens rights and a murderer... Kashogi or Yemen...

    The US never ever tried to control if their gov is left or right, again you are lying and making shit up BTW GENIUS the guy in question doesn't even have the seats in the congress he needs to pass his lawls

    The US never tried to control a government in central or south America... we have a jokes section... the US rigs every election they can including their own... you can tell which elections they don't control because of all the complaints about how undemocratic the election was... and what a dictator, that person who won.

    Sometimes I think that the translator generates distortions in the verb tense, which leads to a misunderstanding in my line of thought.

    I think that repeating my entire post just to make the comment you made breaks the rules... I should ban you for that... but I am a nice guy so I will ask you to edit that post and remove my entire post and just leave your comments. It just wastes space.

    I will also ask you and others to be considerate in future and trim posts of unncessary conversations when commenting.

    I said that it would be desirable for Russia to have around 300 Su 35 fighters today. It is a fighter that went into production in 2011.
    I didn't say that Su 35 has to be massively produced in the next few years.

    Large fighters are not cheap to buy or operate and though Russian fighters are a fraction of the cost of western fighters and also cost a fraction to run compared with some, their budget is also much smaller so their operational costs have to be controlled.

    When they started making Su-35s they had just built the first Su-57 and really didn't know if it would be a success or not.

    They have Su-35s as heavy single seat fighters and are upgrading their Su-30s to be the equivalent of two seat Su-35s with the same engines and radar and avionics to simplify costs and production.

    They are also building Su-57s which had to be designed first and now they are starting serial production and over the next few years they will be operational experience with these aircraft in peace time and in war and after they have gathered some experience with them they can work out what they want or don't want.

    The point is that they are also buying MiG-35s and have new light 5th gen fighters being developed as well, not to mention S-70 drones that operate as wingman type aircraft, and I am sure they are interested in the costs and performance of all of these systems before they commit to any particular types.

    They might find that MiG-35s are good enough for most jobs and stealth is not needed for everything so they might order lots of MiG-35s to keep operational costs down, or they might find the new stealth planes are so much better but not that much more expensive to operate so going with an all stealth fleet with Su-57s and Su-75s and S-70s might be the way they go... but how will they know till all those aircraft have flown and been tested.

    The logic is to invest in the SU 57 although 76 is a low number of aircraft considering the size of the Russian territory. Also remembering that this number will only be reached in 2027.

    They recognise the Su-57 is a good aircraft... they can probably tell that already, and 76 was their first order... in comparison the first order of Su-35s was about 48 wasn't it? And the first order for MiG-35s was about 12 or 24.... so a first order of 76 is actually a big order.... relatively speaking.

    Looks great on paper and exercises but in reality the runway can be cleared in a few hours. Each military airport in the FSU had engineer units to solve such problems. I´m pretty sure there are still such units in Banderaland. Shit, back in the 80´s the ancestor of the VKS had units that could rebuild a whole airport in a matter of 2 month or so. Just to show you their capabilities.

    And for drones just sweep the rubble into the craters and take off in any 50m clear strip...

    They could probably take off from the apron.

    Or any section of road more than 30m long.

    Agreed re the runways, bulldozers are very effective. A better chance of crippling an airfield is to hit its infrastructure, comms, munitions but especially the fuel dumps. Just as the Russians have been practicing doing in Ukraine.
    LIKE4

    The 122mm rocket they use in 5 shot pods is designed to penetrate hardened aircraft shelters and explode inside. Standard rockets , the S-13T are 75kg rockets with two warheads... one to shatter concrete structures and teh second a HE Frag explosive charge to destroy soft aircraft inside the structure... designed to penetrate 6m of earth and then 1 metre of concrete and then explode.

    The S-13 standard rocket is used to make holes in runways with a 21kg warhead too.

    But their main anti runway weapons are KGMU containers and cluster bombs with anti runway cratering munitions... can also be delivered by Iskander or cruise missile or Kh-59 and Kh-59M (HATO codename AS-13 and AS-18) which are TV guided turbojet powered missiles like SLAM and SLAMER respectively.

    Getting one or two Su-25 or Mig-29 into the air is a doddle compared to the shear numbers of aircraft, most needing clean runways, that NATO would have to continue putting up to defeat any Russian attack. Especially as aircraft not SAMs are their main defence.

    Which is further compounded because they are for attack and defence, so each time an attack fails they have less aircraft for attack but also defence and equally when a defence fails... it is catastrophic... whereas even if you take out the main comms centres and HQs and IADS network, the Russian AD systems still work on their own... if not perfectly protecting everything from everything.

    After Germany messed up repairs Russia offered to turn on Nord Stream 2 to deliver the missing gas. Germany refused. This is deliberate. They want you poor!

    The irony is that Germany claimed Russia reducing the flow of gas was political.... when NS2 not being certified is absolutely political.

    They are the ones that will suffer and they have no one else to blame but themselves... yet they still whine while supplying weapons and equipment to Orcs murdering Russians and Ukraininan citizens.

    I have a feeling that Russia will cut the gas in the middle of winter... it is gradually decreasing the flow.....

    It should... if the roles were reversed and it was EU gas keeping Russia warm and Russia was supplying weapons to the  taliban to fight HATO troops in Afghanistan the gas would be cut straight away.

    Russia should pledge to donate all capture Western arms to Hezbollah. Perhaps then the US leaders in Tel Aviv will reconsider.

    Israel would just do what Russia is doing and destroy most of it in transit and capture the rest.

    Besides it is not Israel Russia needs to hurt... how about cheap uranium fuel to Iran or China... none left for the US...

    The UK + EU have abruptly broken with their 60 year long energy policy regarding Russia. They have received a slap in the face+wake up call and now realize that you can't rely on Russia for anything.

    Oh please... Russia wasn't the problem... the UK and EU shat where they ate and now they don't feel so good...

    It took real work to piss the Russians off and they are still being reasonable and fair... the west would have cut the gas off years ago if they had any alternative.... but they don't.

    nd master strategos Putin's aim at breaking up NATO through building European energy dependancy/economic interlinking?

    Putin has been talking about joining Europe in an economic block from the Atlantic to the Pacific... Putins aims to destroy the west or HATO are all in the wests head.

    I wonder what's going to happen when that economic recession/depression kicks in now that the FED has clearly hit the brakes on QE. BCO at 40 USD with hardly any gas infrastructure existing in the East because grand wizard Putin thought he had his customers set in the West.

    Putin knew once the war started... no matter who started it... Kiev or Moscow... that Russia was going to get the blame and all his attempts to work with the west were over.

    The more amusing thing will be as things get tough in the west who will turn on whom... will London remain the economic centre of Europe, or will Paris and Berlin fight over that... perhaps meet half way and put it in Belgium or the Netherlands....

    I am just wondering when they'll start referring to Kaliningrad as Koningsberg.. Was on Twitter yesterday and saw the usual suspects (((David Frum))) and (((Bill Kristol))) set the stages for 'calling Kaliningrad occupied territory' yesterday already.

    They can call it anything they please but there is a cost to go in to change those signs, and HATO didn't have the balls to face Russia in Ukraine... can't see them being braver in Kaliningrad or Crimea.

    Because according to these fine gentlemen, why do we consider Kaliningrad Russian territory anyway?

    Billy Crystal is funny... loved him in the Princess Bride... and the TV series SOAP, but neither have any authority on the matter at hand... I seem to remember the Germans not wanting the region back  in the 1990s... Yeltsen might have signed off on that then but not now.

    What I want to know is what the US is going to do when China transitions to a consumer economy, and the US is stuck with a strong currency that will be next to useless as it tries to rebuild a manufacturing base that it offshored itself as China transforms into the economic center of the world

    Ouch

    And after stealing from countries using the US dollar who is going to continue to use US dollars for trading between countries that don't use US dollars...

    No longer trade currency is really ouch...

    There is a growing danger that Russian cyber influence operations will seek to exploit all these resources to support a longer war in Ukraine,” the report warns. “The longer the war,
    the more challenging it may become to sustain the unity and commitment of a broad international coalition

    The the west was pining for a long war in the Ukraine... that is exactly what they wanted...

    They have also admitted to a bit of cyber war of their own, but they don't count the western media onslaught of course...

    If anything Russia dumping its oil (30 percent discount) on the cheap in India is a sign of weakness and massive hurdles down the road. A lot of this is simply the advantage that goes with pressing an advantage (or more, sneak attack).

    The price is triple what it was when Russia was still making good money... even with a 30% discount they are still making very good profits and India gets a good deal too as it is getting cheaper energy... with economies the way they are at the moment that is important.

    They are also going in to the Russian market and buying up western businesses super cheap too...

    So yes, when the Europe cuts itself off from Russia (or in some cases is cut off by Russia) Europe will pay what they have to. At least for this month/year. And after that it will be done.

    Russia was their only full time genuine source of cheap gas that had teh capacity to meet their current needs and their future demands which were expected to increase significantly... that is why Russia built the NSII to cope with increased demand...

    You can tell how the war is going by the demeanor of the shills. You guys are really seething lately

    Seems to be going to plan... are you not paying attention?

    successful isolation of Russia from the world economy and at the same time about the need for Western investment.

    If western investment dragged countries out of poverty then there would be no third world.

    Western investment is a straw used by a blood sucking tick to remove wealth from another country while pretending to be helping them.

    When would it be useful ?

    As an example it would be a useful weapon for HATO to stop medium range ballistic missiles fired from say Iran at US troops or HATO troops illegally occupying whatever territory they have deemed theirs like Iraq or Afghanistan.

    Without it your defences would be vulnerable to being taken out...

    A su-57 can be used against any enemy which makes it a valuable weapon.

    And yet when used together they are even more powerful because teh S-500 can take out long range ballistic threats including ICBMs and SLBMs and satellites, while the Su-57 is a platform with a range of uses during war time but not amazing during peace time... and operational costs are higher.

    S-500 is designed for intercepting ICBM so only useful in a nuclear war so totally useless because missiles will fly everywhere. Pantsir and tors are more useful than s-500.

    S-500 engages ballistic missiles but can also be used agaisnt air targets out to 600km plus, which means it can engage enemy AWACS and JSTARS and also inflight refuelling aircraft as well... the sort of Elint support the Ukraine is currently getting from HATO so S-500 would be part of the solution to that problem... with ground based lasers damaging and interfering with optical satellites completing the job.

    Sholtz is making a political move with desperate promises because of tge pression of NATO so that he can discuss with Putin in the future.

    If does nothing and discuss directly with Putin he is dead.

    What he does not realise is all this bullshit fake hostility from the west (they could care less about the Ukraine), means there is no future talks with Russia... you are arming nazis to kill Ukrainian civilians and Russian soldiers... there is nothing to talk about.

    Then there is also the S-550 with similar capabilities. It is unclear at this stage but it seems to be a longer ranged version of the S-500?

    They mentioned that the S-550 would be land based only so no naval version... which suggests to me that the S-550 will be the anti ICBM/anti SLBM anti satellite weapon system, while the S-500 would need to take on a range of targets at enormous ranges and speeds... from AWACS and JSTARS and inflight refuelling aircraft to hypersonic missiles and ballistic weapons.

    That would explain why ships would need S-500, while S-550 would only be used on land in Russia. S-500 could deal with most ballistic anti ship missiles and hypersonic threats once it is operational and mature... in fact they could probably put a nuke warhead on it and use it as a surface launched hypersonic weapon too... its ballistic range is probably over 1,000km with the right trajectory shaping and atmosphere skipping.

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    Post  ludovicense Fri Jun 24, 2022 9:01 am

    Spriteer
    @spriteer_774400
    Russia will proceed from the state of affairs "on the ground" if the Ukrainian side makes a proposal to resume the negotiation process, - Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov.


    ............................

    If the Ukrainians were smart (or independent) they would sit down to negotiate today..... every day the terms of the peace negotiation get more difficult for them.
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    Post  Mir Fri Jun 24, 2022 9:14 am

    ludovicense wrote:
    If the Ukrainians were smart (or independent) they would sit down to negotiate today..... every day the terms of the peace negotiation get more difficult for them.

    Might be a bit late for that! Laughing

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #19 - Page 15 13-10810

    Peskov: Special operation to protect Donbass
    it will continue until all the planned goals are achieved. What a Face

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    Post  LMFS Fri Jun 24, 2022 9:24 am

    ludovicense wrote:Firepower is not just measured by numbers of soldiers... Isreal defeated Arab army with inferior numbers of soldiers. But I am very curious about how many Russian troops are currently in combat in the Donbass region..

    LDNR forces talked about 50k Russians, I don't know if that is in Donbass only

    BTW the piggies are sad today  What a Face

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #19 - Page 15 Piggie10

    Peskov: Special operation to protect Donbass
    it will continue until all the planned goals are achieved. What a Face

    Donbass all the way to the Ocean! EU will surely like it since they wanted Ukraine all the way to the Urals Razz

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    Post  franco Fri Jun 24, 2022 9:28 am

    Donbass Devushka

    Official losses of the Donetsk People's Republic from January 1 to June 24, 2022:

    Military:

    Killed - 2196
    Wounded - 9246

    Civilian:

    Killed 677
    Wounded 2186

    https://t.me/s/DonbassDevushka

    NOTE:
    - the LNR has been reported to be running at 75% or so of this
    - these figures would represent 50% of the peacetime strength of their forces
    - however reservist and volunteers both local and Russian would probably have tripled their active numbers

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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Fri Jun 24, 2022 9:42 am

    Mir wrote:
    Isos wrote:
    Big_Gazza wrote:
    Isos wrote:S-500 is a useless weapon.

    Credibility is like virginity.  Once its gone it can't be regained, and you just lost your bud.  Razz

    When would it be useful ?

    A su-57 can be used against any enemy which makes it a valuable weapon.

    S-500 is designed for intercepting ICBM so only useful in a nuclear war so totally useless because missiles will fly everywhere. Pantsir and tors are more useful than s-500.

    The S-500 is not just a ICBM interceptor missile. It can intercept all hypersonic ballistic type missiles as well as spacecraft and satellites (in low orbit?). That outer space tin can troop transporter will be a sitting duck for this type of missile. The S-500 is probably intended as a AWACS killer as well and it will also be able to use missiles for the S400 system. Then there is also the S-550 with similar capabilities. It is unclear at this stage but it seems to be a longer ranged version of the S-500?

    They claim it can do these things, now how effective it is at them is a whole another story.
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    Post  Mir Fri Jun 24, 2022 9:49 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    They claim it can do these things, now how effective it is at them is a whole another story.

    Yes absolutely! Just look at how useless the Patriot turned out to be What a Face

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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:02 am

    Mir wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    They claim it can do these things, now how effective it is at them is a whole another story.

    Yes absolutely! Just look at how useless the Patriot turned out to be What a Face

    I am really not going to get into that debate, but very early patriots are bad yes as they were designed for aircraft and later got a software patch to let them try to shot down ICBM's and yes they where bad at it.

    More advanced versions like Isreal has, has displayed very good interception rates of missiles and aircraft.

    The saudis do not have high grade patriots and the ones they do have they aren't even very good at operating them.

    Also depends on what missile we are talking about and which radar. You can try to throw all the shade you want, and hey I can do that also.

    "Look at how useless all those soviet tanks where in Desert Storm, clearly russian junk, couldn't touch the superior American armor"

    But I don't say dumb shit like that, you know why? because I understand the context and situation and I don't feel the need to make pissy statements when someones questions something
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    Post  Mir Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:16 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    But I don't say dumb shit like that, you know why? because I understand the context and situation and I don't feel the need to make pissy statements when someones questions something

    Ok but what you said below is kind of dumb - don't you think?

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:They claim it can do these things, now how effective it is at them is a whole another story.

    Btw after Raython received some flack about the poor performance of the missile during Desert Storm, they claimed a 50% success rate but failed to provide any substantial evidence to back their claim.
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    Post  Firebird Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:23 am

    @Garry

    I think you are completely wrong on the topic of Kaliningrad.
    Its not an "island" so it shouldn't "get used" to being one.

    Lithuania got its separate status by agreeing not to blockade Kaliningrad.. and agreeing other things like not terrorising ethnic Russians.

    Should Serbia starve to death from blockades by the EU ie US puppets that surround it?

    A partial ie majority blockade is still a blockade and a flagrant breach of intl law, and indeed tantamount to the declaration of war.

    What next? "Oh its only a little place, Kaliningrad". "Oh the Kurils don't really matter, nor does the Donbass or St Petersburg. Hell lets agree with America and split Russia into 3! Better that the ww3"

    Kaliningrad is Russia. If the little turdlet colony called Lithunian wants to bark, then it can get ready for a bite from the big dog. Its had a history of Nazi bullshit and terrorising its Russian residents and if Russia struck it could kill several birds with one stone. Long before a mass militarisation that the Bandera-scum did.

    What do people here generally think should/could/will happen with Lithuania and the Kaliningrad blockade?

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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:44 am

    Lith did not commit an act of war nor did it blockade anything.

    Article 2 of the treaty clearly states they have every right to stop the goods transit within their borders which is all they did.

    A blockade since you do not mean the meaning of the word is when you completely surrounded the location and prevent anything from going in an out, they can move goods vis the air and sea

    But hey keep lying about that, funny how fanboys will like about something so simple


    Last edited by SeigSoloyvov on Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:51 am; edited 2 times in total

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    Post  lancelot Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:45 am

    sundoesntrise wrote:If anything Russia dumping its oil (30 percent discount) on the cheap in India is a sign of weakness and massive hurdles down the road. A lot of this is simply the advantage that goes with pressing an advantage (or more, sneak attack).
    If you continue repeating these lies they do not become truth. Not all oil blends and markets are alike. People just look at Brent Crude price and compare it with ESPO or Sokol and assume it is the same thing. Then they do the price difference and call that Russia having a loss (despite selling their oil for more than pre-war). Why doesn't Mars US oil trade at same price as Brent Crude then?
    Russia is currently selling Sokol at 10% discount to India to compensate for extra costs in transportation vs the Indians buying oil from the Middle East. That is it. Also there is no evidence Russia is discounting ESPO oil sales to China at all. It is just that as Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, etc stop buying Russian oil & gas products of course demand fell. Russia is also hugely increasing volumes at ESPO to replace the Saudis as main oil supplier to China at a time the Saudis move their oil sales in Europe. It is a coordinated move. In time Russia will switch ESPO sales to new customers. A lot of countries all over the Pacific Rim are major importers of petroleum refined products. If Russia builds refineries and exports gasoline and diesel to these countries they will make more than they ever got selling crude to their previous clients. Thailand for example is a also major oil importer and has a population roughly the same as South Korea. I am not saying it will happen but Russia can find clients for the oil if they want to.

    Isos wrote:A su-57 can be used against any enemy which makes it a valuable weapon.

    S-500 is designed for intercepting ICBM so only useful in a nuclear war so totally useless because missiles will fly everywhere. Pantsir and tors are more useful than s-500.
    Tell that to WW2 Soviet Union and Germany. Air force is highly vulnerable to first strike scenario. The Soviets had way more aircraft than the Germans in WW2 but they lost most of them in the ground. Cost effectiveness ratio of air defense missile vs aircraft, air defense missile wins. If you have a weaker economy, and are close to enemy lines, not having credible air defense is a major weakness. The US can ignore air defense because they have the Atlantic and the Pacific.
    S-500 is not just an ICBM defense system. It is also an upgrade of S-400. It has new modern radar, can use same missiles as S-400, and new high performance larger missiles against hypersonics and low orbiting satellites. It is not just a system with the high performance larger missiles. It can have multiple missile launcher types in same combat unit.

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:I am really not going to get into that debate, but very early patriots are bad yes as they were designed for aircraft and later got a software patch to let them try to shot down ICBM's and yes they where bad at it.

    More advanced versions like Isreal has, has displayed very good interception rates of missiles and aircraft.

    The saudis do not have high grade patriots and the ones they do have they aren't even very good at operating them.
    The Israelis think Patriot, even against aircraft, is trash and basically developed their own system called David's Sling. Now the US plans to incorporate that missile in later iterations of Patriot. I don't think they even use the same radars on David's Sling.
    The Saudi Patriot batteries are operated by US personnel, since the US doesn't trust the Saudis to operate their precious systems. So, you are basically claiming the US doesn't know how to operate their own system without knowing about it. Rolling Eyes

    GarryB wrote:The German Army is not what it used to be and will need serious money spent on it to fix it... at a time when Covid is still being paid for and gas prices are not going to go down any time soon.
    Germany will solve their economic problems by buying US weapons like the Chinook and F-35. Yeah that should solve their economic problems alright. The US' economic problems.

    GarryB wrote:As I said... tactical nuclear weapons to defend the soverignty of Russian territory has been authorised and spelled out by their defence minister.
    Not just tactical nukes, but all nukes. If NATO invades Kaliningrad there is like 90% likelihood Russia will respond with nuclear tipped Iskander and Kalibr as well as possibly naval cruise missiles from Russian fleet at St. Petersburg and White Sea.


    Last edited by lancelot on Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:51 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:51 am

    Saudi Patriots aren't operated by US personnel, they might be supervisors on site but that's it.

    No they haven't said that, you are taking quotes by an officer or two and taking it out of context. Etc lying.

    Yes they are going to replace their patriots with something newer and local made, so what? all systems get replaced at some point
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    Post  lancelot Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:55 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Saudi Patriots aren't operated by US personnel, they might be supervisors on site but that's it.
    Liar liar pants on fire.

    https://www.airforce-technology.com/news/us-patriot-battery-troops-saudi-arabia/
    https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/saudi-arabia-deploy-own-missile-defence-system-oil-facilities-us-withdraw-patriot-batteries

    The US has always had some Patriot batteries operated by their own personnel in Saudi Arabia. Initially the Saudis weren't even allowed to operate them. The batteries operated by the US work about as well as the ones operated by the Saudis i.e. not at all. And when they say "operated by the Saudis" it is likely as operated by the Saudis as the Saudi Air Force is. All mercenaries with a token Saudi.

    Only historic claimed aircraft kills by the Patriot system were friendly fire incidents.

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    Post  Firebird Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:30 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Lith did not commit an act of war nor did it blockade anything.

    Article 2 of the treaty clearly states they have every right to stop the goods transit within their borders which is all they did.

    A blockade since you do not mean the meaning of the word is when you completely surrounded the location and prevent anything from going in an out, they can move goods vis the air and sea

    But hey keep lying about that, funny how fanboys will like about something so simple

    I said a MAJORITY blockade not a total one.
    Can Russia say "ok nothing enters ports on the USA East coast, but its not a blockade"? Of course not!
    These are transshipments to Russia NOT goods being cleared into the turdlet state currently called Lithuania.

    No treaty gives Lithuania ANY rights to attempt even a fragment of a blockade.
    Say goodbye to the Suwalki Gap, methinks!

    You are talking utter nonsense. Evidently some Nazi-troll-fangirl. An absolute fantasist.

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    Post  par far Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:46 am

    "Cauldrons in Donbass."




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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:51 am

    You can't read English can you? it said battery And troops meaning separate things.

    The batteries in question where manned by Saudi troops but there where US personal on site.

    We transferred them we did not send operators with them

    https://apnews.com/article/biden-saudi-arabia-middle-east-yemen-jake-sullivan-4285c747ef00474f35348024708f35ce

    its hilarious how people like yourself like to lie and hand-pick articles with misleading words lol!

    The Patriots in SA are Saudi controlled and always have been.

    So to quote you liar liar pants on fire

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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:56 am

    Firebird wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Lith did not commit an act of war nor did it blockade anything.

    Article 2 of the treaty clearly states they have every right to stop the goods transit within their borders which is all they did.

    A blockade since you do not mean the meaning of the word is when you completely surrounded the location and prevent anything from going in an out, they can move goods vis the air and sea

    But hey keep lying about that, funny how fanboys will like about something so simple

    I said a MAJORITY blockade not a total one.
    Can Russia say "ok nothing enters ports on the USA East coast, but its not a blockade"? Of course not!
    These are transshipments to Russia NOT goods being cleared into the turdlet state currently called Lithuania.

    No treaty gives Lithuania ANY rights to attempt even a fragment of a blockade.
    Say goodbye to the Suwalki Gap, methinks!

    You are talking utter nonsense. Evidently some Nazi-troll-fangirl. An absolute fantasist.

    LOL are you off your meds Lith never said Russia can't use their own ports, and that shit doesn't even compare to what happened.

    Article 1 and 2 of the treaty Russia signed gives them 100 percent rights to control what goes through the country, read the fucking treaty because you are 1000 percent lying and talking out your ass.

    Now calling me a Nazi-fangirl because I am calling your horse shit claim what it is, horse shit.

    Dude grew up your lying your ass off claiming they blockaded Russia when they did no such thing, I don't care if you wanna cry like a child doesn't change the fact your lying and making shit up

    So again the TREATY RUSSIA SIGNED. Does NOT say "we can move stuff through your country no matter the situation" They where free to do so, long as they didn't give Lith a reason and when they invaded Ukraine they did give Lith a reason to deny them. End of story, Russia has no say what so ever on that.

    Its utterly hilarious how you fanboys like to pretend Russia has rights it doesn't have.

    BTW fanboy, if Russia told the US "We aren't allowing you to move anything through our country" (which is the correct analogy not the BS you made up) they would have every fucking right to deny it

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    Post  par far Fri Jun 24, 2022 12:08 pm

    Firebird wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Lith did not commit an act of war nor did it blockade anything.

    Article 2 of the treaty clearly states they have every right to stop the goods transit within their borders which is all they did.

    A blockade since you do not mean the meaning of the word is when you completely surrounded the location and prevent anything from going in an out, they can move goods vis the air and sea

    But hey keep lying about that, funny how fanboys will like about something so simple

    I said a MAJORITY blockade not a total one.
    Can Russia say "ok nothing enters ports on the USA East coast, but its not a blockade"? Of course not!
    These are transshipments to Russia NOT goods being cleared into the turdlet state currently called Lithuania.

    No treaty gives Lithuania ANY rights to attempt even a fragment of a blockade.
    Say goodbye to the Suwalki Gap, methinks!

    You are talking utter nonsense. Evidently some Nazi-troll-fangirl. An absolute fantasist.



    It is a good thing that Lithuania did the blockade, now it gives Russia the prefect opportunity to put the screws on this filthy country. Kaliningrad can be supplied via the sea.

    There are going to be regime  changes in the EU, Bojo the clown in Londonistan is on his last legs, the coalition of idiots in Jewmany are panicking because the idiots have lead their country on a path of deindustrialization and people in Berlin will soon see the results, Bulgarian coalition is collapsing and the Canadian educated and Harvard educated globalist puppet Kiril Petkov is blaming everything on Russia and the Bulgarian people, there are others that are in the same shape, hopefully Lithuania joins that list.

    The worst thing for Russia right now would be if "the collective west" came to the negotiating table(remember Zelensky is just a cross dressing clown puppet) before Russia has a chance to take Odessa.

    Come Autumn Russia should slowly up the costs of gas, oil, food and other Russian commodities to unfriendly countries and do everything for Rubles. Gas for Rubles, Oil for Rubles, Food for Rubles.

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    Post  nomadski Fri Jun 24, 2022 12:30 pm

    Agree Lithuanian is filthy ! Let's make them more filthy ! No need to invaded them or declare war , so article 5 invoked . Better discharge sewage from high ground in Russia , near border . Then Raw sewage goes into Lithuanian low lands near Vilnius . All ground water polluted , and no agriculture either . Or pipe sewage to near their coast , just outside territorial waters , and pollute all fish . Put garbage dump near border , let the flies to go to Vilnius . Put most polluting industry next to border and  let smoke to there too ! LOL . We need a " how to sh***t on Lithuaniua topic . Gary start a topic please for Litoiletinia ?


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FWBUl7oT9sA




    Last edited by nomadski on Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:19 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Ispan
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    Post  Ispan Fri Jun 24, 2022 12:37 pm

    Ispan wrote:I have been "hors de combat" for the past week due to an abnormal heat wave, here's an entry about the general situation, explained in layman terms, I will try to add another entry regarding recent developments of the Zolotoye cauldron

    https://guerraenucrania.wordpress.com/2022/06/22/noticias-de-la-guerra-22-06-2022/

    EDIT, and here's today briefing

    https://guerraenucrania.wordpress.com/2022/06/22/noticias-de-la-guerra-22-06-2022-bolsa-de-zolotoye/


    Yesterday briefing, detailing the destruction of the pocket of Zolotoye and the advance towards Lysichansk

    https://guerraenucrania.wordpress.com/2022/06/24/parte-de-guerra-23-06-2022/


    I am on leave for one week, family vacation. Hope there are more victories in the meantime

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    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Fri Jun 24, 2022 12:38 pm

    Found this good photo

    Anyone know how they get fresh water? Wells?

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #19 - Page 15 7eccf80532d62590e7c0ea39e1931bfc


    Last edited by JohninMK on Fri Jun 24, 2022 12:41 pm; edited 1 time in total

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