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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #19

    Walther von Oldenburg
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    Post  Walther von Oldenburg Wed Jun 22, 2022 5:55 pm

    I am not saying the strike on Nikolaev didn't happen. Was just asking for more confirmation if possible.
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    Post  Sujoy Wed Jun 22, 2022 5:58 pm

    Ukraine has almost stopped drone strikes with the Turkish made Bayraktar TB-2 attack drones maybe because Russia has built up good air defences.

    OTOH Russia should step up drone strikes on hostile targets. For instance Slovenia is transporting BVP M-80 IFVs to Ukraine. Why isn't Russia targeting these supply routes?

    https://twitter.com/OsintTv/status/1539278166946201600?s=20&t=p6DmXXPieNXt1o52Ijnfww
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    Post  0nillie0 Wed Jun 22, 2022 6:10 pm

    Sujoy wrote:Ukraine has almost stopped drone strikes with the Turkish made Bayraktar TB-2 attack drones maybe because Russia has built up good air defences.

    OTOH Russia should step up drone strikes on hostile targets. For instance Slovenia is transporting BVP M-80 IFVs to Ukraine. Why isn't Russia targeting these supply routes?

    https://twitter.com/OsintTv/status/1539278166946201600?s=20&t=p6DmXXPieNXt1o52Ijnfww

    That is a bit naive. Russian assets target these routes frequently but anything from power stations, to rails to roads can get repaired within days. The further West you go, the less effective it becomes. Russia has been hitting places where these vehicles accumulate and are beeing prepared for battle, and in ideal circumstances, with their designated crews and ammunition also at the spot.

    Russia has used more long range precision weapons than anyone in the West thought was possible, but they are still limited in the amount they can launch on a daily basis. They must retain a large reserve taking into account possible escalations with NATO.

    Drone strikes deep in the West would not be effective due to the massive amount of intel provided by all NATO partners operating 24/7 along the Western border of Ukraine.

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    Broski
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    Post  Broski Wed Jun 22, 2022 6:21 pm

    Hole wrote:Behind the fortified lines of the Donbass there are a few trenches in the Dnjepropetrovsk region but nothing compared to the fortifications in Donbass. The Russian Army could break trough these lines and liberate like half of the region in a matter of days, without much fighting = a lot of settlements/villages taken over without much damage.
    People seem to conveniently forget that the Ukraine had 8 years to fortify their positions in the Donbass. At the start of the conflict there was 70,000-100,000 Orcs at the line of contact and probably 10,000-15,000 in most of the other Oblasts except for Kiev (which the VDV kept them occupied and unable to reinforce its positions in the east). 
    The psychological impact of liberating Luhansk and Donetsk from the Banderite regime will allow Russia to take Nikolaev, Dnepropetrovsk and Kharkov combined in less than a month except for major cities as they will hide behind the people there, use them as human shields and kill anyone that tries to evacuate.

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    Post  Backman Wed Jun 22, 2022 6:25 pm

    Reddit larpers dead or in custody

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #19 - Page 9 Df7tc9q-6318a60a-1fa6-4867-b53a-22b6e58f29a9.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcLzY3MzJmNjNmLWQ1NGYtNDc4OS1iNGVhLWRlNGUyMTMzMmQ5NlwvZGY3dGM5cS02MzE4YTYwYS0xZmE2LTQ4NjctYjUzYS0yMmI2ZTU4ZjI5YTkuanBnIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0

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    Broski
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    Post  Broski Wed Jun 22, 2022 6:33 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Russia has lied to try and cover up some tactical failures, such as the river crossing etc..
    Is Russia supposed to inform you about every blunder they've made in this war so far? Could you name a single conflict in the last 100 years where a country did this?
    Sure you can argue Ukraine has made way bigger lies and they have, but that doesn't mean every single claim Russia makes is true also
    Could you name one single lie that the Russian MoD has told so far since this conflict started?

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    Backman
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    Post  Backman Wed Jun 22, 2022 6:52 pm

    ❗As a result of the strike of the Russian Aerospace Forces, up to 500 servicemen of the 59th mechanized brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine with weapons and military equipment, located in the shops of the Nikolaev shipbuilding plant Okean, were destroyed

    Nikolaev is getting hit everywhere. Intel Slava has pics and vids of it

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    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:11 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Russia has lied to try and cover up some tactical failures, such as the river crossing etc.

    Sure you can argue Ukraine has made way bigger lies and they have, but that doesn't mean every single claim Russia makes is true also.

    GTFO

    But we should take strikes on Khasham, 30,000 KIA, and Ukrainian victories at face value ?

    2x GTFO

    Russian MOD is far more reliable then Pentagon reports of casualties and fake Ukraine victories

    The burden of proof lies on western fanboys to prove us wrong,

    Otherwise the facts stand as stated with photo and video evidence of strikes on the locations previously mentioned

    The front in the east collapses, despite your numerous bullshit claims of lack of numbers

    Seig, exit the room already you have been discredited numerous times

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    ludovicense
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    Post  ludovicense Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:19 pm

    Hole wrote:
    ludovicense wrote:
    Ned86 wrote:
    Vann7 wrote:
    IF the Russian military did their job right , with the right weapons , modern weapons with Ultra precision , from the very start ,and the standard equipment , like strike drones ,glide bombs ,loitering munition in big numbers , they could have routed ukrainian army from those trenches in the very first week of war ,and forced Ukraine to surrender ,after capturing 100,000 soldiers.


    You are either retarded or you watched too much BS from Hollywood.
    RuAF is using everything you mentioned plus much more you haven't seen in Hollywood movies.

    In at least some elements I agree with Vann... Clearly there is a lack of sophisticated drones in quantity like the American MQ-1 Predator. It would make a big difference on the battlefield. Could also use the T 90 M on a larger scale. As a counterpoint, use Kalibr and Iskander in large numbers, which are a last generation weapon. Even so, I think that the initial problems of the Russian army were due to misguided tactics, not due to the weapons used.

    Someone who thinks you could kill 50.000 soldiers in trenches and fortifications with suicide drones or glide bombes lives in fantasy land.

    What difference did this so-called "sophisticated" Cessna make in Iraq or Afghanistan? None. Killing unarmed civilians in 90% of the cases.

    Initial problems. Which one? Taking Kherson and most of Zaporoshye in days? Killing thousands of Nazis in Mariupol? Forming one cauldron after the other in Donbass killing tens of thousands of enemies?  Rolling Eyes



    Specifically, I didn't say that drones would defeat 50/100 thousand Ukrainian soldiers. Drones are not efficient against dense defenses, I even posted this here. However, it would make a lot of difference in a country like Ukraine if used in large quantities. Ukraine does not have air defenses in large numbers for medium and high altitudes. Many posts show formations and columns of tanks, bmp and transports roaming freely without any cover. They would be potential targets without a shadow of a doubt.

    I think that the Russian Armed Forces have already reached this conclusion, since they are increasing the production of attack drones a lot.
    ludovicense
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    Post  ludovicense Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:31 pm

    Backman wrote:
    ludovicense wrote:
    Ned86 wrote:
    Vann7 wrote:
    IF the Russian military did their job right , with the right weapons , modern weapons with Ultra precision , from the very start ,and the standard equipment , like strike drones ,glide bombs ,loitering munition in big numbers , they could have routed ukrainian army from those trenches in the very first week of war ,and forced Ukraine to surrender ,after capturing 100,000 soldiers.


    You are either retarded or you watched too much BS from Hollywood.
    RuAF is using everything you mentioned plus much more you haven't seen in Hollywood movies.

    In at least some elements I agree with Vann... Clearly there is a lack of sophisticated drones in quantity like the American MQ-1 Predator. It would make a big difference on the battlefield. Could also use the T 90 M on a larger scale. As a counterpoint, use Kalibr and Iskander in large numbers, which are a last generation weapon. Even so, I think that the initial problems of the Russian army were due to misguided tactics, not due to the weapons used.

    Suspect  The MQ-1 Predator was retired in 2018.

    What is a "last generation" weapon.

    Sounds like a Van sock. dunno

    I used the Predator as an example. The MQ-9 Reapers are the modern version of them. In spite of all the advances drones are deficiencies of the Russian armed forces.

    Don't confuse me with Vann my dear. In general, I think very far from him, but it doesn't mean that everything he says is wrong.
    GunshipDemocracy
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:37 pm

    Just my 2 cents about "Russian MoD lies" discussion. If this river armoured vehicles' commentary was to be Russian then

    1) why Ukrops had NOT videos of action? since they had one tank ambushes full vids?
    2) on Ukro twitter there was remark about "airfare bombing Russians" So Russians can let many Ukro fighters/attack planes operate freely for hours? in the direction where Russians suppose to attack?


    Yup sounds legit

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #19 - Page 9 BAGHDADBOB1




    ludovicense wrote: Drones are not efficient against dense defenses, I even posted this here. However, it would make a lot of difference in a country like Ukraine if used in large quantities. Ukraine does not have air defenses in large numbers for medium and high altitudes. Many posts show formations and columns of tanks, bmp and transports roaming freely without any cover. They would be potential targets without a shadow of a doubt.

    I think that the Russian Armed Forces have already reached this conclusion, since they are increasing the production of attack drones a lot.


    That's one of directions. Loitering suicidal drones would also be nice to dive on targets just approved by an operator. But for now small light quadcopter drones would add a lot of value in close combat or ambush detection. Hard to detect and even harder to hit. Is aad missiles as used its pretty expensive deal...



    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:38 pm

    I stand by the statement that drones were used in this war, and gave force multiplier to fire squads and platoons and MAYBE company level- but were not significant to change the war at anything larger than the battalion level

    In strategic terms, it did not change the tide of battle in significant way

    Not one front changed hands due to the presence of drones

    At best, the most significant impact at a strategic level was TB2 giving strike coordination to kill Moskva

    But beyond that fronts shifted only based on infantry and artillery

    So I do not consider it a game changer, rather a tool which augmented tactics, but does not change the strategic picture at all

    In this war, AWACS, Satellites, and ballistic/cruise missiles made a greater impact than drones did

    Drones at best hunted this or that howitzer/air defense vehicle/trench grouping

    But did not on the whole disable bridges, annihilate barracks, or give intel on the level that the bigger C4ISR assets did

    The US MAXAR satellites, E3 , and trenches were the biggest game changers for VSU


    Last edited by Arkanghelsk on Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:49 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    ludovicense
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    Post  ludovicense Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:38 pm

    ALAMO wrote:
    ludovicense wrote:
    In at least some elements I agree with Vann... Clearly there is a lack of sophisticated drones in quantity like the American MQ-1 Predator. It would make a big difference on the battlefield. Could also use the T 90 M on a larger scale. As a counterpoint, use Kalibr and Iskander in large numbers, which are a last generation weapon. Even so, I think that the initial problems of the Russian army were due to misguided tactics, not due to the weapons used.

    That makes both of you retarded then.
    The only thing "clearly there" is an extremely intense role of inexpensive, small drones that are being used by the troops on the ground in thousands, not even hundreds.
    No armed forces on Earth had them before this conflict, as everyone considered it as toys.
    Some small numbers were used by the most sophisticated special forces, and that's it.
    Now, in both Russian and republican armies, those drones are the main subject of donations and each delivery to the front consists tons of them. DJI is already a superstar in this conflict, and the prices of drones doubled on Aliexpress.

    Arkanghelsk wrote:
    Drones are irrelevant to this war


    That is an extremely immature statement, as we all see that the role of drones is huge.
    Only question is, what kind of drones.
    The Bayraktar saga already has proven, that they are all easy prey for solid AD assets, and don't pay any serious role.
    And no, Predator, and no other Wunderwaffe would have worked better. Maybe some high speed and low observable ones, could be slightly more effective, but hardly believe in that.
    Russians are using drones in huge numbers, let it be Orlans or Forposts. The conflict led to arming Orlans, maybe you have missed that. Forposts are already armed, and Inohodets is coming big, too. This huge plant freshly painted is not there for masquerade, you know?
    But no other country than China has the physical potential to produce thousands of small, civilian in mean, drones that are now the standard equipment of every single squad.
    Sometimes, we can witness how 2-3 operators run own drones operating in the very same point, same building. Drones are on  the top priority list of any money collecting campaign, and the main supply of any volunteer group. I suppose that no official and big project of creating such a dro will follow, as those made for civilian usage are already in production in tens of thousands. Maybe, Russia should talk with the already established suppliers to open facilities in Russia, that's it. Or buy bigger numbers as an official order.


    Does having a different view of you make someone retarded? What presumption and arrogance. Do you own the truth? Drones have just attacked a Russian oil facility 150 km away. Although they can be nullified, drones are extremely dangerous.



    Last edited by ludovicense on Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  ludovicense Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:51 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Clearly there is a lack of sophisticated drones in quantity like the American MQ-1 Predator. It would make a big difference on the battlefield.

    Everyone keeps saying that but in Syria and Libya and Afghanistan... having lots of drones does not seem to be that useful.

    I think people see drones and think they are all seeing all destroying super weapons... but they are a resort of the US because their planes are too expensive for the jobs they do now so they need something else... and Ironically their drones are more expensive than most Russian modern aircraft.

    Could also use the T 90 M on a larger scale.

    Don't take this personally, but that is as dumb as Vann... why do you think the T-90M would be invincible?

    These troops are using the equipment they operate normally with... throwing them into all brand new vehicles they have not operated before, or maintained and expecting them to fight an enemy is something a child would suggest... or a marketing director at Boeing... wanting the new toys to be used so kids parents will buy the models...

    As a counterpoint, use Kalibr and Iskander in large numbers, which are a last generation weapon.

    Both of which have been in service for a decade... Onyx for two decades... the Kinzhal is the new weapon and it seems to be used against deeply buried weapon bunkers.

    Even so, I think that the initial problems of the Russian army were due to misguided tactics, not due to the weapons used.

    Considering the mission is to rescue a neighbour from nazi occupation the tactics were normal and justified... the fact that most Ukrainians don't have the spine the further west and north you move is hardly a surprise now but could not be anticipated with any certainty before hand.

    Also Hole trying to bring up Afghan is fucking retarded, the Taliban did not fight in the open field, they relied on tactics that made using drones against them fairly pointless because therewasn't large concentrations of enemy forces, they are a guerilla force, they pop up attack and disperse. Sp by the time drones arrive, there is nothing present to kill.

    And the Ukrainian forces stand out in the open lined up in ranks fighting the Russians like real men... hahahaha...

    Compare this to the current war in Ukraine and there are THOUSNDS of troops in open areas,tanks, AA systems etc, Arty that drones can hunt down and kill.

    Hahahaha... yeah.... but those thousands of troops are in cities and villages hiding behind the local civilians, and the few tanks and AA systems they have are scattered all around the place carefully hidden till taken out to use... and then taken out...

    Most US success with drones killing is over territory where there is no open conflict and the targets are unaware they are about to be murdered by a murder bot... along with anyone nearby of course...

    IMO russian generals are not updated on drobe technology and are still not using them effectively. We can see on the ground russian soldiers being happy with their civilian drones launching grenandes after they saw how ukrainian ones worked very well.

    Whining about lack of drones used by Russia.... oh they would be doing this so much better if they had drones like the US does...

    The US is a participant in this war and they are supplying the Orcs with all sorts of drones and they are losing... wow... drones... mazeballs...

    Whatever.


    That is an extremely immature statement, as we all see that the role of drones is huge.
    Only question is, what kind of drones.

    I would say he is right... lack of drones on Russias part will not lose them this conflict and no amount of drones for the nazis will save them from Russian artillery and air power...

    Both sides are using drones in large numbers and it is embarrassing that some are complaining that Russia does not use enough when they don't know how many they are actually using.

    They keep making statements though.

    So Russia promised an appropriate response to Lithuania's blockade, but except from a military response I cannot imagine any other outcome. I hope it will not come so far.

    You might have missed all of Lithuanias backtracking about how it is not their idea and that they are only implementing EU policy etc etc etc.

    Container OTH covers all of Ukraine.

    Most OTH radars have blind spots within 1,000km of the antenna location and would not cover Ukrainian airspace just because they are pointed in that direction...


    I don't believe in invincible tanks, everyone is subject to defeat. However, a more sophisticated tank has a greater chance of survival and greater attack potential. Otherwise why don't we stay at T 34?

    Kalibr and Iskander are Russia's top weapons today, even though they've been in service for a long time. Kinzhal is another very new type of weapon that probably doesn't have enough strength to make a difference on the battlefield.
    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:01 pm

    ludovicense wrote:
    ALAMO wrote:
    ludovicense wrote:
    In at least some elements I agree with Vann... Clearly there is a lack of sophisticated drones in quantity like the American MQ-1 Predator. It would make a big difference on the battlefield. Could also use the T 90 M on a larger scale. As a counterpoint, use Kalibr and Iskander in large numbers, which are a last generation weapon. Even so, I think that the initial problems of the Russian army were due to misguided tactics, not due to the weapons used.

    That makes both of you retarded then.
    The only thing "clearly there" is an extremely intense role of inexpensive, small drones that are being used by the troops on the ground in thousands, not even hundreds.
    No armed forces on Earth had them before this conflict, as everyone considered it as toys.
    Some small numbers were used by the most sophisticated special forces, and that's it.
    Now, in both Russian and republican armies, those drones are the main subject of donations and each delivery to the front consists tons of them. DJI is already a superstar in this conflict, and the prices of drones doubled on Aliexpress.

    Arkanghelsk wrote:
    Drones are irrelevant to this war


    That is an extremely immature statement, as we all see that the role of drones is huge.
    Only question is, what kind of drones.
    The Bayraktar saga already has proven, that they are all easy prey for solid AD assets, and don't pay any serious role.
    And no, Predator, and no other Wunderwaffe would have worked better. Maybe some high speed and low observable ones, could be slightly more effective, but hardly believe in that.
    Russians are using drones in huge numbers, let it be Orlans or Forposts. The conflict led to arming Orlans, maybe you have missed that. Forposts are already armed, and Inohodets is coming big, too. This huge plant freshly painted is not there for masquerade, you know?
    But no other country than China has the physical potential to produce thousands of small, civilian in mean, drones that are now the standard equipment of every single squad.
    Sometimes, we can witness how 2-3 operators run own drones operating in the very same point, same building. Drones are on  the top priority list of any money collecting campaign, and the main supply of any volunteer group. I suppose that no official and big project of creating such a dro will follow, as those made for civilian usage are already in production in tens of thousands. Maybe, Russia should talk with the already established suppliers to open facilities in Russia, that's it. Or buy bigger numbers as an official order.


    Does having a different view of you make someone retarded? What presumption and arrogance. Do you own the truth? Drones have just attacked a Russian oil facility 150 km away. Although they can be nullified, drones are extremely dangerous.



    Still, an oil facility in rostov , like belgorod despite its symbolic importance

    Is irrelevant and will not remove Russian army from the zones it is attacking 

    Drones have had a negligible effect on the battlefield as a whole 

    Most casualties , inflicted by cruise missiles, and artillery 

    Drones have not altered the tide of the war - at all

    With the exception of sinking Moskva, the greatest contribution drones gave , were symbolic strikes on small oil refinery in some town, or to hit snake island, which is de facto irrelevant to the war itself


    Did drones capture major cities/towns? Did drones destroy most of Ukrainian AD? Did drones inflict even 30% of 70k+ Ukrainian casualties ? 

    Have they even remotely changed anything strategic? 

    The answer remains a resounding --- No

    Drones are a nice tool , but they will remain a minor player until more drones are produced, and can fly in true autonomous fashion and conduct air warfare on their own 

    Until then, it's just another toy

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    Post  ludovicense Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:08 pm

    Arkanghelsk wrote:
    ludovicense wrote:
    ALAMO wrote:
    ludovicense wrote:
    In at least some elements I agree with Vann... Clearly there is a lack of sophisticated drones in quantity like the American MQ-1 Predator. It would make a big difference on the battlefield. Could also use the T 90 M on a larger scale. As a counterpoint, use Kalibr and Iskander in large numbers, which are a last generation weapon. Even so, I think that the initial problems of the Russian army were due to misguided tactics, not due to the weapons used.

    That makes both of you retarded then.
    The only thing "clearly there" is an extremely intense role of inexpensive, small drones that are being used by the troops on the ground in thousands, not even hundreds.
    No armed forces on Earth had them before this conflict, as everyone considered it as toys.
    Some small numbers were used by the most sophisticated special forces, and that's it.
    Now, in both Russian and republican armies, those drones are the main subject of donations and each delivery to the front consists tons of them. DJI is already a superstar in this conflict, and the prices of drones doubled on Aliexpress.

    Arkanghelsk wrote:
    Drones are irrelevant to this war


    That is an extremely immature statement, as we all see that the role of drones is huge.
    Only question is, what kind of drones.
    The Bayraktar saga already has proven, that they are all easy prey for solid AD assets, and don't pay any serious role.
    And no, Predator, and no other Wunderwaffe would have worked better. Maybe some high speed and low observable ones, could be slightly more effective, but hardly believe in that.
    Russians are using drones in huge numbers, let it be Orlans or Forposts. The conflict led to arming Orlans, maybe you have missed that. Forposts are already armed, and Inohodets is coming big, too. This huge plant freshly painted is not there for masquerade, you know?
    But no other country than China has the physical potential to produce thousands of small, civilian in mean, drones that are now the standard equipment of every single squad.
    Sometimes, we can witness how 2-3 operators run own drones operating in the very same point, same building. Drones are on  the top priority list of any money collecting campaign, and the main supply of any volunteer group. I suppose that no official and big project of creating such a dro will follow, as those made for civilian usage are already in production in tens of thousands. Maybe, Russia should talk with the already established suppliers to open facilities in Russia, that's it. Or buy bigger numbers as an official order.


    Does having a different view of you make someone retarded? What presumption and arrogance. Do you own the truth? Drones have just attacked a Russian oil facility 150 km away. Although they can be nullified, drones are extremely dangerous.



    Still, an oil facility in rostov , like belgorod despite its symbolic importance

    Is irrelevant and will not remove Russian army from the zones it is attacking 

    Drones have had a negligible effect on the battlefield as a whole 

    Most casualties , inflicted by cruise missiles, and artillery 

    Drones have not altered the tide of the war - at all

    With the exception of sinking Moskva, the greatest contribution drones gave , were symbolic strikes on small oil refinery in some town, or to hit snake island, which is de facto irrelevant to the war itself


    Did drones capture major cities/towns? Did drones destroy most of Ukrainian AD? Did drones inflict even 30% of 70k+ Ukrainian casualties ? 

    Have they even remotely changed anything strategic? 

    The answer remains a resounding --- No

    Drones are a nice tool , but they will remain a minor player until more drones are produced, and can fly in true autonomous fashion and conduct air warfare on their own 

    Until then, it's just another toy

    Long-range artillery fire is fixed by drones. How does it make no difference?
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    Post  JohninMK Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:31 pm

    ludovicense wrote:

    Long-range artillery fire is fixed by drones. How does it make no difference?

    In my view drones' usefulness is directly related to the amount of artillery ammunition available. If, like the Russians you have what seems to be an unlimited supply, then drones are of marginal importance as they can saturate an area. If on the other hand you have to make every shell count then drones can be very helpful. Also, the effectiveness of guided shells can be improved with drones.

    It also depends on the ability to keep the drones in the air rather than shot down. This is an interesting article for the opinions of Ukie drone pilots views, in particular how useful the TB-2 was at the start and not now that the Russians have their AD sorted out.

    Front-line pilots in Ukraine are at odds with the country's chief of staff over the use of US-provided Gray Eagle strike drones, which the pilots say can be easily shot down by Russian air defenses according to Foreign Policy. "We are not advocating for the Gray Eagles," one pilot told the outlet, who added that Ukraine's military general staff are pushing for them. "There’s no good Air Force mind next to our chief of staff or commander who would say, speak up and say, hey, that’s B.S." "It’s very dangerous to use such expensive drones in our case, because of the enemy’s air defense," he continued, adding: "It’s not Afghanistan here."

    Both Ukrainian and American officials are increasingly concerned that Gray Eagles could be shot down by advanced Russian air defense systems. The attack drones are armed with Hellfire missiles that can hit targets only up to about 5 miles away, far less than the one-way kamikaze drones that the United States has provided to Ukraine. In just the past several weeks, Russia has beefed up air defenses on the border and inside Ukraine, said Samuel Bendett, an advisor with the CNA think tank. -Foreign Policy "Their systems are working on a more massive scale," said Bendett, referring to Russia's capabilities. "Their early warning radars are working. Their air defenses are working. So losing Gray Eagles is a real possibility to such a layered defense."

    The drones could be used in limited circumstances, however - such as direct action on the front lines, the pilots said. "It could be useful," said one active-duty Ukrainian fighter pilot whose call sign is Juice. "It could widen our strike capabilities on the front lines," he added.

    That said, the pilots doubt the Gray Eagles would be likely to survive more than one or two missions, making the prospect of using the $10 million drones a bad idea.

    Ukraine has been pulling back on its use of Turkish Bayraktar drones (TB-2s), which were initially effective at stopping Russian armored advances in the Battle of Kyiv, but are now far less useful since Russia's defenses have come online. "They were very useful and important in the very first days, stopping those columns, but now that they’ve built up good air defenses, they’re almost useless," said one pilot, who goes by Moonfish.

    Now, Ukraine is limiting the use of TB-2s to 'rare special occasions and attack missions,' said one of the pilots.


    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/its-not-afghanistan-ukrainian-pilots-oppose-biden-provided-drones

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    Post  JohninMK Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:38 pm

    Ispan wrote: here's today briefing

    https://guerraenucrania.wordpress.com/2022/06/22/noticias-de-la-guerra-22-06-2022-bolsa-de-zolotoye/

    War news 06/22/2022 Zolotoye stock exchange
    22 June, 2022 Zhukov

    Situation of the front east of the Dnieper



    Detail of the Zolotoye pocket, at the eastern end of the Donbass salient

    The Zolotoye stock exchange is closed

    After a hard week of fighting, the Zolotoye-Gorskoye exchange has been closed, of the 5,000 fighters present in the exchange only 2,000 remain, the rest have been lost to the resistance.

    2022-06-22 00:21



    Reports of the Novorossiya militia. Latest reports from the DPR and LPR fronts

    The ring of encirclement around Zolotoe and Gorsky is almost complete.

    This morning, units of the People's Militia of the LPR and the Russian Armed Forces launched a massive artillery attack on the positions of the Ukrainian Armed Forces in the area north of Toshkovka and during the day captured the villages of Mirnaya Dolina, Ustinovka, Podlesnoye and began fighting for Belaya Gora.

    Moreover, this was confirmed in the evening summary of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine at 18.00 on 06.21.22.

    Therefore, the front in this direction has essentially collapsed. Which is generally understandable in view of the fact that the Seversk reserves ignored the order and refused to go to the front, and those that were there were simply "crushed" by artillery.

    With the occupation of the above-mentioned villages, the isthmus between the two attacking groups is now less than 2 km. The roads are blocked by heavy artillery fire, and it seems that the cauldron around Gorsky and Zolotoye will finally be formed tomorrow (today) at most.

    Analysis of Strelkov 21 June

    Since 5 o'clock in the morning, the methodical shelling of Donetsk with isolated cannons has resumed. Yesterday afternoon, there was an exchange of mutual fire from counter-batteries, and single sorties of Russian fighter jets were observed. Apparently, everything will continue today.

    About the situation at the front, offensive battles of the Armed Forces of the LNR continue in the Gorskoye-Zolotoye area. Apparently, our troops managed to completely capture the village of Toshkovka and advance towards the Gorskoye-Lisichansk highway, bringing the garrison of the mentioned villages into an operational environment. At the same time, there is no complete encirclement, the enemy can (if it does not rain and mud does not form) try to supply his units along numerous field roads and withdraw his forces to Lisichansk. The possibility of a counterattack is also possible. In any case, this sector of the front will soon fall into the category of "secondary" for the command of both the Armed Forces of Ukraine and the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, since the "battle for the initiative" is clearly expected on other fronts. However, it is very important for the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation/LDNR to achieve the liberation of Zolotoe and Gorsky as part of the consolidation of operational successes after the advance on Popasna (eliminating the dangerous enemy fortified area on the flank and in the rear of the newly reached positions). Therefore, as long as the fighting continues here, as well as in the remnants of the enemy bridgehead south of Severodonetsk.

    Summary of Colonel Cassad 21 Junio

    https://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/7692408.html

    Military expert Boris Rozhin with a brief summary of the results of the operation at 23.59 on June 21, 2022,

    1.
    Severodonetsk.
    The enemy is blocked on the Azot floor. There is no attempt to storm Azot; some civilians leave the company's territory.
    There are isolated cases of surrender. The enemy cannot get away from the Azot, and the Ukrainian army does not have the opportunity to fully unlock the Azot.
    Russian Forces and the LNR army are waiting for the advancing group from Vrubovka and Toshkovka to approach Lisichansk. The roads to Lisichansk are under constant fire.

    2. Zolotoye
    Today, the operational encirclement of the enemy group has been formed on Gorsky and Zolotoy. Our troops took Mirnaya Dolina, entered Podlesnoye, and also advanced from Ustinovka to Belaya Gora. The enemy's resistance sharply weakened, some of the forces retreated to Lisichansk, others to Artemovsk. The only way to Gorskoye through Rai is Alexandrovka under the full fire control of Russian Forces. The operational encirclement turns into a cauldron.

    3. Artemivsk.
    The enemy is seriously resisting in the area of Pokrovskoye and Klin. Today, our troops have already fought street battles in Klin. The advanced positions of our troops are located 5 km from Artemivsk. But it will not be easy to take it.

    4. Soledar.
    Intense fighting for Berestovoe and Belogorovka. Our troops held on to the villages, but it is still far from taking them completely, since the enemy has transferred reserves here and intensively fires with artillery. In turn, the enemy's attempts to regain control of the Artemivsk—Lisichansk highway were unsuccessful. In addition, the possible loss of Nikolaevka will further complicate the situation of the Severodonetsk group.

    5. Avdiivka.
    An intense counter-battery struggle continued. The enemy continued to bombard Donetsk, and the other localities near Novobakhmutovka and New York did not bring any serious changes.
    6.
    Ugledar.
    After several days of fighting, the enemy again tried to attack Pavlovka and began fighting in the area of the village and on its outskirts.
    On Marinka and Velikaya Novoselovka without significant changes, as, indeed, on the Kamenskoye-Orekhov-Gulyai-Pole-Velikaya Novoselovka line, where positional battles continue.
    7.
    Slavyansk.
    Fighting in the area of Prishib, Dolina, Krasnopol and Bogorodichny. It is expected that the fighting will soon move to Sidorovo and further to the Mayaks.
    8.
    Izyum

    Battles on Velikaya Kamyshevakha and Kurulka. The enemy is firing on Balakleya and conducting combat reconnaissance, exploring the possibility of forcing the flanks of the Izyum group.
    9.
    Kharkiv.
    The enemy went on the defensive in most areas, abandoning intensive attempts to regain the lost positions in Rubezhnoye, Ternovoye and Verkhny Saltov.
    Russian Forces are conducting an artillery offensive and heavily intensified attacks in Kharkov and Chuguev, as well as in the Uda and Zolochiv area.
    Ukrainian forces are strengthening their defenses in villages on the outskirts of Kharkiv in anticipation of the advance of Russian troops.
    10.
    Nikolaev.
    The enemy continued its attempts to attack in the Snegirevka area, and also claims to advance to Kiselevka in the direction of Kherson and tactical successes in this direction. There are no changes in the direction of Nikopol.
    11.
    Odessa.
    The enemy today again tried to attack Snake Island. Satellite images show at least 1 impact on some object on the island.
    The results of the response actions of the Russian Armed Forces are still unknown.
    The June 20 attempt cost the Ukrainian Armed Forces dearly, but the enemy continues to explore opportunities to attack the island of Zmeiny despite the losses.

    TODAY 22 June

    Rybar: ...The Situation at the address of Soledar at 10:00 a.m. on June 22, 2022.

    ▪ In the morning, the forces of the LNR People's Militia had advanced to the outskirts of Loskutivka from the direction of Dolina Mirny.

    In the direction of Vrubovka, the 6th Volunteer Regiment (Cossacks) approached Rai-Alexandrovka and occupied the dominant height.

    Although the settlements still formally remain under enemy control, in fact, the Allied forces have established full fire control over the highway, occupied the heights and closed the grouping defending Gorske and Zolote in a cauldron.

    According to preliminary information, four Ukrainian battalions are defending themselves near Zolote. The units of the 24th brigade are deserting their positions.

    ▪ The remnants of the 112th Territorial Defense Brigade support the defense in Loskutivka - the unit suffered huge losses during the battles for Toshkivka and Mirnyaya Dolyna.

    ▪ Before the collapse of the defense south of Lysychansk, the Ukrainian command moved a rifle battalion, hastily assembled with the newly mobilized residents of Volodymyr-Volynsk, to Bondarnoye.

    ▪ Some Ukrainian reinforcements are transferred to the Markovo-Druzhkovka line: two companies of the 14 Brigade Division are rushing to equip positions in an attempt to contain the Russian Armed Forces.


    Statement Russian army 22 June, morning

    The enemy suffers considerable losses.

    On June 21, an attack launched by high-precision weaponry of the Russian Aerospace Forces resulted in the elimination of up to 500 servicemen of the 59th Mechanized Brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, as well as their armament and military equipment deployed at the workshops of the Okean shipyard located in Nikolayev.

    ️ ️ Servicemen of a battalion of the 57th Mechanized Infantry Brigade who had been defending near Gorskoye, Podlesnoye, Vrubovka (Luhansk People's Republic) refused to obey the order of their command and abandoned all their positions after losing more than 60 percent of the personnel.

    ️ ️ Tonight, the Ukrainian command evacuated up to 30 wounded and 8 dead American and British mercenaries in order to avoid their capture by units of the Russian Armed Forces in view of the possible defeat of the units of the 14th and 24th mechanized brigades near Nikolayevka (Donetsk People's Republic).

    ️ ️ The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation launch attacks on military installations located in Ukraine.

    Operational-tactical and army aviation has eliminated: 5 LC ammunition depots near Sidorovo, Verkhnyaya Kamenka (Donetsk People's Republic) and Miropolye (Sumy region), 1 Buk-M1 air defense missile system near Kurakhovo (Donetsk People's Republic), as well as personnel and materiel in 151 areas.

    Missile forces and artillery have neutralized 253 areas of concentration of material personnel, as well as 6 ammunition depots near Lisichansk, Verkhnekamenka, Mirnaya Dolina, Loskutovka and Podlesnoye (Luhansk People's Republic).

    A fuel terminal has been destroyed in Nikolayev.

    Within the war of contrabatería, 13 multiple rocket launchers have been neutralized near Ostroye, Gornyak, Kodema, Dzerzhinsk, Kalinovo, Zoryanoye, Dmitrov, Novolugansk, Novgorodskoye, Leninskoye, as well as 10 artillery pieces of cannon in their firing positions near Stepnaya Dolina (region Nikolayev), Spartak, Podgornoye, Nikolayevka, Leninskoye, Zaytsevo, Semigorye and Dzerzhinsk.

    An American-made AN-TPQ artillery reconnaissance station has been destroyed near Nikolskoye (Donetsk People's Republic).

    The attacks launched by aviation, missile troops and artillery have resulted in the elimination of more than 620 nationalists, 24 tanks and other armored fighting vehicles, as well as 27 vehicles.

    The Russian air defense media have shot down 1 Su-25 of the Ukrainian Air Force near Barmashevo (Nikolayev region) and 1 MiG-29 near Apostolovo (Dnepropetrovsk region).

    In addition, 16 Ukrainian UAVs have been shot down near Bolshiye Prokhody, Malaya Kamyshevakha, Novodmitrovskoye, Vesyoloye, Belyayevkamezhkovka, Chervonoye, Dolgenkoye, Suligovka, Yasinovatoye and Snake Island.

    3 Ukrainian Tochka-U ballistic missiles were intercepted near Pashkovo (Kharkov region) and Novaya Kakhovka (Kherson region), as well as 14 projectiles from a multiple rocket launcher near Serpents Island, Yasinovataya (Donetsk People's Republic), Novosyolovka (Luhansk People's Republic) and Suligovka (Kharkov region).

    In total, 211 aircraft and 132 helicopters, 1,308 unmanned aerial vehicles, 349 anti-aircraft missile systems, 3,733 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 594 combat vehicles equipped with multiple rocket launch systems, 2,081 field artillery guns and mortars, as well as 3,801 units of special military equipment have been destroyed during the special military operation.



    War crimes of Ukraine

    A 21-year-old woman and her newborn baby were killed in a shelling by the Ukrainian artillery on the houses in Rovnopol, 20 km south of Volnovakha

    https://antimaydan.info/2022/06/devushka_i_grudnoj_rebenok_pogibli_pri_obstrele_sela_v_volnovahskom_rajone.html

    Other reports

    About the fortifications that the Russian army and the Donbass militias have to storm and the difficulty of operations

    https://antimaydan.info/2022/06/eshe_raz_ob_ukrepleniyah_kotorye_prihoditsya_shturmovat_rossijskoj_armii_i.html

    https://topwar.ru/197883-pri-otstuplenii-vsu-otstraivajut-novye-opornye-punkty-no-terjajut-i-ih.html

    https://topwar.ru/197904-rossijskie-vojska-osvobodili-selo-v-kramatorskom-rajone-i-vyprjamili-liniju-fronta-k-severo-zapadu-ot-slavjanska.html


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    Post  JohninMK Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:41 pm

    Ispan wrote:I have been "hors de combat" for the past week due to an abnormal heat wave, here's an entry about the general situation, explained in layman terms, I will try to add another entry regarding recent developments of the Zolotoye cauldron

    https://guerraenucrania.wordpress.com/2022/06/22/noticias-de-la-guerra-22-06-2022/

    War news 22/06/2022 - general situation
    22 June, 2022 Zhukov

    Interactive map of the fighting from June 16 to 20

    https://kot-ivanov.livejournal.com/20513.html



    General situation:

    Part of the terror-bombing of Donetsk, with up to 300 impacts of heavy-gauge, harder even than in the fateful summer of 2014, although fortunately with less victims, the most outstanding event is the siege of the outgoing of Zolotoye, and the struggle for the villages to the south of Severodonetsk, where resist in the industrial area and the factory Spanish some units Ukrainian and mercenaries after taking hundreds of hostages. However, there have been isolated surrenders of the Nazi Aidar battalion.

    On the other fronts without major changes. The most outstanding events:

    - Counter-battery attacks with Kalibr cruise missiles and artillery fire managed to silence most of the guns and rocket launchers on Avdeyevka responsible for the shelling of the city of Donetsk.

    On the coast opposite Odessa there was a new attack on the island of Snakes, a key strategic position for the blockade of the port. A Russian tugboat carrying an anti-aircraft missile launcher was sunk by a Harpoon anti-ship missile. It is not a major loss, but it is regrettable that a specialized rescue ship is at risk in the absence of other transports. I imagine it will be some technical explanation such as the need for a crane to unload the vehicles on the island or something like that.

    A Ukrainian bombardment with long-range rockets and drones was repulsed by the anti-aircraft batteries on the island, which shot down almost all the shells.

    Some general considerations :

    In a battle of attrition such as the annihilation of enemy forces in the Donbass salient, it is normal for both sides to show symptoms of fatigue and it seems that the situation has stagnated and discouragement is spreading, especially when there are pauses in operations.

    In general, this is the case in all battles of attrition. I have to comment on some criticisms that are made from Strelkov and other critics. But first, let's look at the big picture, because no matter how justified the criticism, in reality, the final result is already decided in advance, from day one.

    Recall: the bulk of the Ukrainian army was concentrated on the Donbass front for an imminent offensive when the "special operation" began, and another part was accumulating ammunition and supplies in Kherson for an attack on the Crimea.

    Some last-minute reserve deployments did not alter the situation, that is, they could not change the fundamental strategic error. The Ukrainian strategic reserves prevented the fall of Kiev and Kharkov, but were immobilized there. Only in recent weeks have some troops from the Kharkov garrison been diverted as reinforcements to the Donbass salient. In reality, these troops do not exert any influence on the operations. The advance to the Russian border was a mistake since, far from the protection provided by the residential areas of the city, the Ukrainian units were severely punished and have returned to their starting positions. Attempts to attack the flank of the Izyum group are doomed to failure by having to cross the river and the Pecheneg reservoir under the dominance of Russian air and overwhelming artillery superiority. Even if they manage to cross and establish a bridgehead, they cannot fuel the battle. They can only send small infantry forces that can only harass the supply line but nothing more.

    The army of the Donbass salient clings to its strongholds but from the first day it is incapable of any maneuvers and is doomed to destruction even if the salient has not been fenced in a pocket and the air interdiction does not completely prevent the flow of reinforcements, weapons and supplies.

    The other half of the Donbass army, that of the southern front deployed from Donetsk to Mariupol was the maneuvering force and the most prepared for offensive actions. Half of it was destroyed in the rupture, and the encirclement of Volnovakha and the siege of Mariupol. The other half retreated to the north and has established a defensive line from Zaporozhye to Donetsk that apart from the defensive success in avoiding the encirclement of the salient from the south, in the open steppe is unable to counterattack.

    On the southern front, Odessa forces are pinned down in the city. The other forces from Nikolayev to Krivoy Rog and Nikopol are unable to attack, their offensive attempts have ended in failures again and again despite the fact that the front being so extensive the Russian forces are widespread in the territory they control west of the Dnieper. The reason, the difficulty of crossing the rivers such as the Southern Bug and its tributaries, and that the open terrain makes any concentration of armored and troops crushed by Russian artillery and aviation.

    In short, leaving aside the isolated Odessa garrison attached to the port as an inalienable strategic imperative, the Ukrainian army is divided into four groups on their respective fronts: one that is being methodically annihilated by attrition in the salient. Another that is limited to maintaining a static front in order to avoid a major catastrophe of the previous group, and two, at the extremes, in Kharkov and Nikolayev, which are incapable of serious offensive operations or exerting any influence on operations.

    It is only the limited number of troops of the Russian army, which is actually an expeditionary force, and that of its allies, the Donetsk and Luhansk militias, that prevents offensive operations from being carried out until the battle of attrition in Donbass is over.

    On the other hand, if the Russians are tired, which is relative, since they can relieve and rotate their units, maintaining a constant, albeit small, force, the Ukrainians are exhausted. Their casualties must already be over one hundred thousand, or one third of the initial force, and although mass levies have been resorted to and territorial militias sent to feed the bonfire of the salient, they have lost most of the educated and veteran soldiers, necessary for the cohesion of the units and framing the new levies.

    As for the material, the situation is getting worse and worse. Almost all tanks and armor have been lost. Although artillery, anti-tank missiles and machine guns are enough to defend static positions, there are fewer and fewer cannons and rocket launchers and less ammunition left. The Soviet ammunition of the 152mm heavy artillery, which was already scarce after eight years of war, has been exhausted. That of other calibers also has no prospects for replenishment since the powder magazines of the NATO countries of the former Soviet bloc have been emptied. The Western cannon shipments are only a few dozen that do not compensate for the losses. But even if the Ukrainians still have a few hundred cannons and rocket launchers left, it has reached a point where for every cannon grenade, rocket or mortar bomb they launch, the Russians fire ten.

    Neither Slavic fatalism, nor the fanaticism of the Nazi battalions, nor the indoctrination of propaganda that makes them unaware of the hopelessness of their situation, nor the encouragement of drugs, nor coercion through terror and "barrier detachments" or any other means can sustain the morale of struggle indefinitely in the face of such hammering. If it were not for the lack of forces, the desire to save lives, and the wear and tear of the infantry of the Donbass militias, which prevents carrying out determined assaults in order to advance faster and cause the tottering morale of the enemy to crumble, the war would end sooner.

    On the other hand, we do not know, although we can imagine, the conditions of the Russian strategy and whether an early end to the war is feasible or even desirable. The war is not only military and limited to the territory of Ukraine, but also economic and global. The Kremlin seems to be interested in prolonging the war to achieve the exhaustion of Europe and that they renounce all of Ukraine definitively to avoid greater losses.



    (to be continued in the next entry)

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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #19 - Page 9 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #19

    Post  ludovicense Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:49 pm


    Victorvicktop55
    @vic_top55
    French politician Régis de Castelnau:
    “Another achievement for Macron. Two French CAESAR self-propelled guns were captured by the Russians unharmed. Currently, they are at the plant "Uralvagonzavod" for study by reverse engineering. Thanks Macron. We pay for it

    https://twitter.com/vic_top55/status/1539677614364938242


    What a nice trophy.....

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    Post  sepheronx Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:49 pm

    Isos wrote:Russian lied themselves with their mighty AD systems and OTH radar that didn't want to see it isn't pefect. Stealthy cruise missiles will go just as easily as this drone IMO. Having a defensive strategy makes you loose the war. Nowadays you need a shiton of cruise missiles and fighter jets to win.


    https://mobile.twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1539520241906159616


    Every now and then, you say something extremely stupid. This is such an example. Are you bipolar by any chance?

    Anyway, a Drone, much like a cruise missile, flies low. Even if the radar sees it which most likely does at decent ranges (maybe 100km before it actually gets spotted), usually interception range is within the ~20km zone if that. So if the AD systems are not within said area, they cannot take down the drone unless the system moves.

    There is a reason why the US has intelligence planes and satellites sniffing for radiation signals - its looking for areas where there is little to no coverage of AD systems. In this regard, having to place AD systems every 5 - 10km from each other is not viable for any nation, especially the size of Russia. So next best option is EW equipment. That though affects civilians in the area too. So what is next? Protecting vital infrastructure. That facility isn't vital of course and damage was minimal.

    There is no lesson to be learned here. Its as simple as that you cannot do much or anything from such an attack. Your best bet is to strengthen and harden the facilities themselves in order to be able to take a hit or two.

    If you think Russia doesn't understand this, then you are more of an ignorant than you let off. Syria should be an example of how IAD's work. Even in Israel, where their borders are much smaller than Russia, still has rockets land in it.

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    Post  Mir Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:10 pm

    ludovicense wrote:
    Victorvicktop55
    @vic_top55
    French politician Régis de Castelnau:
     “Another achievement for Macron.  Two French CAESAR self-propelled guns were captured by the Russians unharmed.  Currently, they are at the plant "Uralvagonzavod" for study by reverse engineering.  Thanks Macron.  We pay for it

    https://twitter.com/vic_top55/status/1539677614364938242


    What a nice trophy.....

    Nice trophy yes but I don't think there will be much the Russians can learn from it - let alone wasting their time reverse engineering it >>>

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #19 - Page 9 2s43-m10

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    Arkanghelsk
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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #19 - Page 9 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #19

    Post  Arkanghelsk Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:21 pm

    ludovicense wrote:Long-range artillery fire is fixed by drones. How does it make no difference?

    Hang on, you said that Russia was lacking Medium altitude Long Endurance or MALE drones

    Such as MQ 1 Predator/MQ9 Reaper

    These are the drones I refer to, they are already in service in the form of Inokhodets, along with other suicide drones

    But what I am saying is that these drones are a tool, as you would imagine a razor, or a scalpel 

    They alone do not change the strategic picture of combat 

    This is what I am saying 

    It is a force multiplier 

    Yes the odd quadcopter helps the odd squad or platoon drop a munition on a truck or some lone howitzer

    And this is great,

    But again it is not game changing in the sense of C4ISR 

    And of the drones you mentioned, Orlan, and other Recon strike complex assets, if a jammer like krasukha or Borisoglebsk is present,

    Guess what? The RC capability is jammed 

    This war is peculiar, because Russia does not fight it to the maximum capability 

    But rather seeks to achieve many goals in this war and fights it according to those goals

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    Isos
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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #19 - Page 9 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #19

    Post  Isos Wed Jun 22, 2022 10:19 pm

    Every now and then, you say something extremely stupid. This is such an example. Are you bipolar by any chance?

    Anyway, a Drone, much like a cruise missile, flies low. Even if the radar sees it which most likely does at decent ranges (maybe 100km before it actually gets spotted), usually interception range is within the ~20km zone if that. So if the AD systems are not within said area, they cannot take down the drone unless the system moves

    Nope bipolar just amazed by how stupid sometimes russians can be and how hyped they are with their AD.

    100km away flying at 200km/h means you have 30min to send a mig-29 or su-30 to intercept it. Even ka-52 or mi-28 can destroy it.

    It was flying above the front line. So it should have been easy to destroy.

    They are spending too much money on AD and clearly not enough on the airforce which could have destroyed the airports this drone operated from. The use of kalibr and iskander missiles against any target in the rear of ukraine shows how they destroyed their air force.

    They should have had at least 100 su-57 by now if they invested enough money in it instead of S-500 which has no real use in an atomic war.

    Now they have to keep the few su-35 they have far away from danger because they don't have enough of them. Su-30 and su-34 don't seem to have any survivability against soviet made AD systems with their huge rcs.

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    Hole
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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #19 - Page 9 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #19

    Post  Hole Wed Jun 22, 2022 10:24 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #19 - Page 9 Fv3tll10
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