Russian special military operation in Ukraine #18

There was someone a couple pages ago who said that regime changing the govt in Ukraine won't work. The US tried it in Vietnam , Afghanistan Iraq ect. And I somewhat agreed.
But today I realized that the US has in fact conducted successful regime changes before. Like Ukraine in 2014. They took the country and made a Nazi dictatorship out of it with full buy-in from the whole military.
I think this is because Ukraine is European soil with European ppl. It's just different than the ME or Asia. If the US can regime change Kiev , so can Russia.

I'm on the full regime change train again

Those mercs came to kill Russians.

As the saying goes: "those who came with the sword, will die by the sword".

ucmvulcan wrote:But they got a rump state in the cookie monster caper launched by Nuland.  They wanted Crimea and its naval bases and oil and mineral deposits immediately off its shores and Russia seized it with what 3 dead for Russia and Ukraine combined.  They also wanted the Donbass so the regime change operation would pay for itself and again they got virtually nothing.  What did they have left? Antonov, a corporation that will never produce another commercial or military plane let alone something like the An-225.  They have a rusty shipyard that honestly, Russian bombs would just be putting out of its misery in Nikolayevsk.  They have the port of Odessa, but yeah, the State Dept's regime change operation came with a very hefty price tag.

The whole Ukraine operation was basically funded with the Russian gas transit fees. But even if you used all of those fees it was just enough to fund the war machine they were building there. i.e. their defense budget. And it was basically the Europeans, not the Russians, who were in the end bankrolling the entire operation. You can bet this cost them tens of billions in the very least. This was the US's long term project to destroy Russia. But Russia is wrecking it instead. And the longer the war lasts, and the longer they need to sustain central Ukraine, with the biggest cities industries stopped because of the war the more expensive it will get.

The large Black Sea shipyards are gone. They took the last cranes out of Nikolayev. It is a grain terminal and the dry dock is there just for show.

flamming_python wrote:What I will say about the 3 mercs is...

...Except for one argument - namely that they surrendered willingly, and on the backdrop of a Russian & DNR promise that the lives of everyone who surrenders will be guaranteed....

They were guaranteed safe exit AKA that they won't be shot upon identification

They were not promised immunity from legal persecution

Also Russia reiterated numerous times that any foreign mercenary will be dealt with without​ any leniency, that Geneva convention will not apply to them and that attempts to bypass Geneva convention through issuing foreign mercenaries Ukrainian passports will be ignored

Fact that they were even given trial and option to appeal the sentence is already exceptionally magnanimous gesture from Russia

Those foreign foreigners had no business in East Europe and now is time for them to swallow their medicine

JohninMK wrote:Russians With Attitude
@RWApodcast
·
8h
Ukrainian Minister of Defense Reznikov: "The weapons that have already arrived in Ukraine would be enough for a victorious resistance against any army in Europe, but not against the Russian Federation"[/i]

Lucky one ????
@luckyone232
·
16h
Replying to
@RWApodcast
He meant “we sold the rest of it on a black market because we wouldn’t win this anyway, but send more”

ucmvulcan wrote:

Backman wrote:There was someone a couple pages ago who said that .

I'm on the full regime change train again

But , the State Dept's regime change operation came with a very hefty price tag.  

Are you making the argument that it is not worth regime changing rump Banderstan ?

Imperialism isn't that much about physical resources. It's more about territorial footprint than anything else. The US empire is happy to sit on useless territory that has no resources at all. See the balkans. Why did Chinese oil companies get so much of the oil in Iraq ? Because the US couldn't be bothered. They wanted Iraq so that they could build another huge embassy.

With Sweden and Finland joining NATO, Russia really has to take all of Ukraine in some form. It is there for the taking now. There's zero incentives not to.

Remember. Putin gambled to try and make a deal for these 8 years because he thought he could get it all back. Just as they did after the Orange devolution. That's why Putin turned down Poroshenkos offer to take just the Donbass. He turned that down because he knew that would mean handing the rest of the country to NATO

Backman wrote:There was someone a couple pages ago who said that regime changing the govt in Ukraine won't work. The US tried it in Vietnam , Afghanistan Iraq ect. And I somewhat agreed.
But today I realized that the US has in fact conducted successful regime changes before. Like Ukraine in 2014. They took the country and made a Nazi dictatorship out of it with full buy-in from the whole military.
I think this is because Ukraine is European soil with European ppl. It's just different than the ME or Asia. If the US can regime change Kiev , so can Russia.

I'm on the full regime change train again

If Russia wants to redeem Ukraine, the answer is clear - carve out a rump Ukraine consisting on the Center and West (the East & South will be re-absorbed into Russia proper) and then impose a political solution where the East Ukrainians/Russia Loyalists are in charge, and backed by Russian hard-power. Then proceed to suppress and marginalise the Banderite nationalists in the same way as the Orcs have been working to forceable "Ukrainianise" the ethnic Russians.

Its their country, so they do the hard work. Russia just has to support and encourage them, and face down the NATO scum when they inevitably spit the dummy and howl about "human rights"

Methinks their will be no shortage of Easterners or anti-Banderites who are just itching for a chance to turn the tables on the Bandera-worshipping goose-steppers.

JohninMK wrote:Any indication this is correct?

https://twitter.com/i/status/1534772228448997376

That? no, no rumors.

As part of the Special Operation , the Russian Aerospace Forces carried out an operation to identify and destroy Ukrainian air defense systems using a flight of four newest Su-57 multifunctional fighters . The aircraft were combined into an information network through automatic communication systems, data transmission, navigation and identification in real time" - said the source of the agency.

https://ria.ru/20220609/su-57-1794135339.html

flamming_python wrote:

Feels like this policy has been tailored for Vann7

He's not active on other forums is he?

well no idea..

but i post not much , because there is so  putin dick suckers in the forums, t  and  attack me all the time for telling the facts ,they don't like to listen.

So i could care less a shit of all the suckers , who hate me , i don't give a shit , hate me more suckers .  i don't care . if i was dumb and stupid , i will be like them.  
if i wanted to make "friends" , all that i need too do is worship putin like God, and refuse
to talk anything that is less than great about russian military.  

the same imbeciles ,that were saying "russia army is not fighting there" when i pointed out the
defeat of russia in the armenian conflict.. the conflict that baykatar and israeli drones destroyed
almost every air defense in russian inventory and forced armenia and nagorno to surrender a lot of land to azerbaijan , now are making new excuses for russia air defenses and airforce poor perfomance in ukraine , in not defending donbass and even russian cities.
and those s-400s failing to protect their best destroyer..

Even when russia is winning the war , their performance is under question and rightly so , for how slow and how poor is the defenses of russian miltary on their convoys , of donbass and russian navy and on russian cities..

The real problem is however ,how is russian military going to do ,when they facing nato ?
if they barely can win in ukraine , imagine how much worse it will be if nato airforces or even israel airforces was flying into ukraine airspace to strike russian army?   russia entire war will have collapsed , if they had nato airforce there , striking at their military..  

means that russia military , needs to do major reforms in their tactics ,and modernize is standard equipment.  specially its airforce and surface navy its performance is very uninpressive and nato knows this..  by this time.. the entire collective west , had to be mass producing strike drones and glide precision bombs like there is no tomorrow , because can very easily overwhelm russian defenses.

Im in record questioning years ago ,the overblow praise for russian air defenses like s-400s and s-300s , warning such air defenses can be saturated ,but people laughed at this idea . but then in the armenian conflict they destroyed 2 moderns s-300s of russia , iskander inside armenia , tors ,buks ,almost everything russia had.. so time proof me right..

russia have been exposed for the limitations of its air defenses , and the will need to dramatically invest in new generation of air defenses , with very agressive electronic warfare and mobile air defenses and drones hunters of other drones. the future wars , will be saturation wars with micro drones , intelligent weapons , decoys , and glide bombs .

my bet is russia next major big war is going will be a total defeat , if don't use tactical nukes ,
or at least dont dramatic changes on their airforce , because now nato knows russian weakness and will exploit them by 1,000% percent , knowing russian army limitations.

The Russian military wasn't fighting in that war and its AA systems never participated in the batte....That's a straight-up lie by Vann.

Also again with this drone shit, the defenders in that conflict did not have Sam systems capable of dealing with drones lol. The S-300s and whatnot all belonged to Armenian and never deployed its military in that conflict

Christ what a dam liar you are Vann, I don't care if you wanna point out incompetence but don't lie and use inaccurate information to do so and that's what you are doing constantly lying about 99 percent of the shit you say because you think your some genius when your a liar and a moron.

But hey keep the comedy coming buddy, your stupidity is just a great brand of comedy.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:The Russian military wasn't fighting in that war....That's a straight-up lie by Vann.

Also again with this drone shit, the defenders in that conflict did not have Sam systems capable of dealing with drones lol. The S-300s and whatnot all belonged to Armenian and never deployed its military in that conflict

Christ what a dam liar you are Vann, I don't care if you wanna point out incompetence but don't lie and use inaccurate information to do so and that's what you are doing constantly lying about 99 percent of the shit you say because you think your some genius when your a liar and a moron.

the only moron here is you , that was claiming russia lost in syria.. or that russia was not in armenia aiding them , showing what a fool you are. none of those officers operating russian air defenses ,
like tor where armenians, but russians officers manning them . takes years to master their use ,and
they would not have given them such air defenses to armenians with no experience in combat..
they also killed russian soldiers onboard of an attack hellicopter, and putin look to the sides. both conflicts armenian and ukraine shows russia is not well prepared to handle modern wars , where the adversary is strong with advanced drones and well aware or provided advance weapons to target russian positions and convoys movements.
so please don't talk to me loser.  you are not worth of it.

Vann7 wrote:

SeigSoloyvov wrote:The Russian military wasn't fighting in that war....That's a straight-up lie by Vann.

Also again with this drone shit, the defenders in that conflict did not have Sam systems capable of dealing with drones lol. The S-300s and whatnot all belonged to Armenian and never deployed its military in that conflict

Christ what a dam liar you are Vann, I don't care if you wanna point out incompetence but don't lie and use inaccurate information to do so and that's what you are doing constantly lying about 99 percent of the shit you say because you think your some genius when your a liar and a moron.

the only moron here is you , that was claiming russia lost in syria.. showing what a fool you are.  
so please don't talk to me .  you are not worth of it.

When did I say Russia lost in Syria? they failed to complete parts of their objective yes, Syria was a 50-50 win and loss for the US and Russia. Not a total defeat for one side but not a total victory either.

Naw you're a liar, a clown, a moronic fool.

I'll call out your lies everytime I see them which is easy because everything you say is pretty much a lie or then again....maybe you are to stupid to realize its a lie and so you think its truth when it nots, hard to say.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:

When did I say Russia lost in Syria? they failed to complete parts of their objective yes, Syria was a 50-50 win and loss for the US and Russia. Not a total defeat for one side but not a total victory either.

Naw you're a liar, a clown, a moronic fool.

I'll call out your lies everytime I see them which is easy because everything you say is pretty much a lie or then again....maybe you are to stupid to realize its a lie and so you think its truth when it nots, hard to say.

The battle in Syria is still going.
The way I see it, is the US empire is collapsing, so at some point keeping military in Syria will be impractical.
On the other hand, the Russian empire is expanding.

Krepost wrote:Those mercs came to kill Russians.

As the saying goes: "those who came with the sword, will die by the sword".

Some of them, surely.
But not all.
The Moroccan guy, for example, was just a student who joined the ranks, as that paid his tuition. At least if we hear his testimonies.
The Brit has a Ukrainian wife, lives there for years, and enlisted in the regular army.

None of them seems to be a nazi scum, both surrendered voluntarily.

If they are going to apply the death sentence to folks like them, what will be left for real nazi mercs who came there for safari hunting Russkies?

ucmvulcan wrote:
But they got a rump state in the cookie monster caper launched by Nuland.  They wanted Crimea and its naval bases and oil and mineral deposits immediately off its shores and Russia seized it with what 3 dead for Russia and Ukraine combined.  They also wanted the Donbass so the regime change operation would pay for itself and again they got virtually nothing.  What did they have left? Antonov, a corporation that will never produce another commercial or military plane let alone something like the An-225.  They have a rusty shipyard that honestly, Russian bombs would just be putting out of its misery in Nikolayevsk.  They have the port of Odessa, but yeah, the State Dept's regime change operation came with a very hefty price tag.  

When all that shit started, I mean the US involvement, the fracking oil was on the table.
Donbas is considered as a big reservoir of that crap, and the whole interest of Burisma, Biden family etc. was unsurprisingly drifting around that for a long time. There was one thing that bothered them in long term - a numerous Donbas population and high urbanization, making the process problematic. Some rumors were raised back at the beginning of the 2010s, that it would be good if the Donbas population disappeared. Somewhere. One could consider that as a rumor and part of the Russian propaganda campaign, but back in 2015 they really found tons of specialized fracking equipment and sized it.
As the whole concept was in the process of dying all over the globe, the pressure was released on Donbas either. But as the process was already on tracks, it runs with its own life I guess.

Erk wrote:

SeigSoloyvov wrote:

When did I say Russia lost in Syria? they failed to complete parts of their objective yes, Syria was a 50-50 win and loss for the US and Russia. Not a total defeat for one side but not a total victory either.

Naw you're a liar, a clown, a moronic fool.

I'll call out your lies everytime I see them which is easy because everything you say is pretty much a lie or then again....maybe you are to stupid to realize its a lie and so you think its truth when it nots, hard to say.

The battle in Syria is still going.
The way I see it, is the US empire is collapsing, so at some point keeping military in Syria will be impractical.
On the other hand, the Russian empire is expanding.

Wishful thinking on your end

Well shit if thats god wish, Guess I gotta join the russians.

Briefing by Russian Defence Ministry

Engineering units of the Russian Armed Forces continue to clear roads and forest areas of Svyatye Gory National Park near the liberated settlements of Svyatogorsk, Yarovaya, Studenok and Sosnovoe.

To date, Russian servicemen have cleared more than 5 square kilometres of territory in Yarovaya and Studenok and have found and destroyed 224 explosive devices, including 66 anti-tank mines.

The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue the special military operation in Ukraine.

High-precision air-based missiles at Dnepr military airfield have destroyed Ukrainian air force equipment. Production facilities of an interprise for rebuilding AFU weapons and military equipment have been destroyed near Kharkov.

In addition, high-precision air-based missiles have hit 2 command posts, 27 areas of AFU manpower and military equipment concentration, 5 Ukrainian artillery positions, including 2 multiple rocket launcher batteries near Soledar and Praskovievka in Donetsk People's Republic, as well as 5 missile-artillery weapons and ammunition depots near Bakhmut, Berestovoe in Donetsk People's Republic and Loskutovka in Lugansk People's Republic.

Operational-tactical and army aviation have hit 46 areas of AFU manpower and military equipment concentration.

The attacks have resulted in the elimination of more than 150 nationalists, 6 tanks, 4 field artillery mounts and 2 Grad multiple rocket launchers.

Russian air defence means have shot down 2 airplanes of the Ukrainian air force during the day among them: 1 Su-25 near Dolgenkoe, Kharkov Region, and 1 MiG-29 near Ingulets, Dnepropetrovsk Region.

Also, 5 Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles have been shot down near Lozovaya, Glubokoe in Kharkov Region, Borozenskoe in Kherson Region, Nevskoe in Donetsk People's Republic, and Popasnaya in Lugansk People's Republic.

In addition, 4 Tochka-U tactical missiles have been intercepted near Popasnaya, Lugansk People's Republic, Ledovka, and Kalinovo, Kharkov Region and 3 rockets of Uragan MLRS near Malaya Kamyshevakha, Nizhnee Kup'e,  Kharkov Region and Yakovlevka, Donetsk People's Republic.

Missile troops and artillery have hit 62 command posts, 138 firing positions of artillery, as well as 303 areas of AFU manpower and military equipment concentration.

The attacks have resulted in the destruction of more than 350 nationalists, 7 armoured vehicles, 2 Grad multiple rocket launchers, 5 field artillery mounts and mortars, 16 special vehicles, and 11 storage facilities for missile and artillery weapons, ammunition and fuel.

In total, 195 Ukrainian airplanes and 130 helicopters, 1,168 unmanned aerial vehicles, 336 anti-aircraft missile systems, 3,484 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 499 multiple launch rocket systems, 1,843 field artillery and mortars, as well as 3,528 units of special military vehicles were destroyed during the operation.

#MoD #Russia #Ukraine #Briefing
@mod_russia_en

https://t.me/mod_russia_en/2126

ALAMO wrote:

Krepost wrote:Those mercs came to kill Russians.

As the saying goes: "those who came with the sword, will die by the sword".

Some of them, surely.
But not all.
The Moroccan guy, for example, was just a student who joined the ranks, as that paid his tuition. At least if we hear his testimonies.
The Brit has a Ukrainian wife, lives there for years, and enlisted in the regular army.

None of them seems to be a nazi scum, both surrendered voluntarily.

If they are going to apply the death sentence to folks like them, what will be left for real nazi mercs who came there for safari hunting Russkies?

From memory the court gave the two Brits 17 and 12 years jail that was then superseded by the death penalty.

I agree with you, whilst understanding the urge for revenge, death is too harsh for these guys. For example those two Brits were there to be with their wives who, due to UK immigration rules, were not allowed to live in the UK. With the military one of the few jobs open to them and at the time just a low level civil war running in Donbas.

To bring down the angst of the West on Russia and DNR for these guys, who are clearly not Nazis or soldiers of fortune but more like one up from gun fodder, seems crazy, unless the plan from the start was to show how DNR courts can be merciful, which would not have been achieved by just giving jail time, especially of that length.

Giving the real Nazis death penalties, especially when supported by evidence of evil doing, would probably hold up in the West's court of public opinion but doing this first does seem like needlessly shooting themselves in the foot, significantly reinforcing the slander that Russians are an evil, murdering lot. Effectively boosting the US's PR effort for them.

The 3 guys won't be killed. They were santenced to death only to oblige the west deal with Donbass directly which will be some sort of recognition of the DNR republic. However if they don't propose any exchange then they will be killed or jailed for ever.

I have the feeling UK will let them in the hands of the russians. Morrocco may make banana exchange deal for its guy.

Armored train in the background