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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #18

    Backman
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    Post  Backman Thu Jun 09, 2022 3:01 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    Backman wrote:Paul Craig Roberts is a kremlin critic except from the hawkish side. I cant help but agree with some of his takes. Here's some quotes. I hope to have constructive discussion about these neuonces but ill probably get some petty piling on by the usual suspects.
    []

    It took EIGHT YEARS for the Kremlin to react to the slaughter of Donbass Russians, and only did so after the West laughed at the Kremlin’s security concerns and dismissed them out of hand.   Russia’s conduct of its foreign policy shows irresolution, and this invites more provocations. The Kremlin shows inability to comprehend the dilemma it creates for itself.



    do you realize what would be effect of current sanctions 8 years ago? China and India together 1/2 of US economy. Russia without electronics, food and actually anything including reserves. Now Russia is much more resilient, better prepared for current war. And China India are 2x of US economy. So THATS WHY it took 8 years. Probably there  is still a bit too early yet I think there was no other way out.


    I basically agree. But I think the smo should have happened a year or 2 sooner. During Covid would have been perfect.

    I don't think shooting a US drone out of the sky in response to Moskva is really that big of escalation risk. Iran did it. Things like that are missing from this war. It would be good for moral to play to the crowd more. Putin takes is lack of emotion too far. No wonder Medvedev is spontaneously combusting. Its more healthy to release some emotion and get some revenge.

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    GunshipDemocracy
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Thu Jun 09, 2022 3:37 am

    Backman wrote:
    I basically agree. But I think the smo should have happened a year or 2 sooner. During Covid would have been perfect.

    I don't think shooting a US drone out of the sky in response to Moskva is really that big of escalation risk. Iran did it. Things like that are missing from this war. It would be good for moral to play to the crowd more. Putin takes is lack of emotion too far. No wonder Medvedev is spontaneously combusting. Its more healthy to release some emotion and get some revenge.

    Im not sure about drone, perhaps it would be good when drone is too close to Donbass (finally LNR AAD could shoot it down isnt it? with S-300 :d) . But 2 years ago it would be definitely too early - food security is too important. Electronics base and no less important - number of precision weapons in stockpiles.

    So no, this is where I disagree with you. Not too late but too early. Otherwise Russia would have more drones an perhaps more ships in the Black Sea.

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    Vann7


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    Post  Vann7 Thu Jun 09, 2022 3:54 am

    Another video ,that shows clearly russian army tactics , not efficient in ukraine.

    the minister of defense released another video ..

    this time shows , how russia found a region infested with nato artillery , and after attacking the entire
    region with many dozens of rockets strikes ,  they only manage to hit just one nato artillery . No



    The drone scouting for russia about nato artillery positions had no strike capabilities , and was just there watching doing nothing else . This are just endless of examples that shows how russia equipment and tactics are not very good , and costing them to do things in the most slowest and hardest way possible by just throwing unguided artillery strikes at an entire region and hoping they get lucky and hit something. No

    this is why is sooo slow the fighting.. Russian tactics are inadequate , and the military hardware they using ,neither the most ideal one for the job..  replace artillery with 4x orion drones.. and the destruction of artillery would have been a massacre of nato artillery , in the dozens , in very seconds , means saving many russian soldiers lives , by destroying adversaries artillery very fast , as soon they are spot on a zone.

    make not mistake ,russia will not be doing  this very low efficiency attacks, in ukraine against such extremely important targets , like artillery is , if it wasn't because there is a serious problem with inventory numbers of precision weapons.  in my opinion , would have been better that russia used those cruise missiles ,they wasted in kiev tank   factory ,and instead dropped them , right there in that region in the video ,where so many nato artillery was found.  No

    is interesting how a same video can be perceived as a "major success" by fanboys of russia , like
    the video author , but at same time , seen as a major failure for people that are objective and understand that time means lives , and the longer russia delays the destruction of adversaries artillery and air defenses ,with precision weapons , the more lives , is going to cost them , in soldiers and civilians .
    ucmvulcan
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    Post  ucmvulcan Thu Jun 09, 2022 4:34 am

    Vann7 wrote:Another video ,that shows clearly russian army tactics , not efficient in ukraine.

    the minister of defense released another video ..

    this time shows , how russia found a region infested with nato artillery , and after attacking the entire
    region with many dozens of rockets strikes ,  they only manage to hit just one nato artillery . No



    The drone scouting for russia about nato artillery positions had no strike capabilities , and was just there watching doing nothing else . This are just endless of examples that shows how russia equipment and tactics are not very good , and costing them to do things in the most slowest and hardest way possible by just throwing unguided artillery strikes at an entire region and hoping they get lucky and hit something. No

    this is why is sooo slow the fighting.. Russian tactics are inadequate , and the military hardware they using ,neither the most ideal one for the job..  replace artillery with 4x orion drones.. and the destruction of artillery would have been a massacre of nato artillery , in the dozens , in very seconds , means saving many russian soldiers lives , by destroying adversaries artillery very fast , as soon they are spot on a zone.

    make not mistake ,russia will not be doing  this very low efficiency attacks, in ukraine against such extremely important targets , like artillery is , if it wasn't because there is a serious problem with inventory numbers of precision weapons.  in my opinion , would have been better that russia used those cruise missiles ,they wasted in kiev tank   factory ,and instead dropped them , right there in that region in the video ,where so many nato artillery was found.  No

    is interesting how a same video can be perceived as a "major success" by fanboys of russia , like
    the video author , but at same time , seen as a major failure for people that are objective and understand that time means lives , and the longer russia delays the destruction of adversaries  artillery and air defenses ,with precision weapons , the more lives , is going to cost them , in soldiers and civilians .

    I use similar stuff to this video in my garden. Stinky, but does wonders for my plants.

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    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Thu Jun 09, 2022 4:45 am

    First of only Vann would be retarded enough to think if its not on video its not happening, Just because they don't record every single thing getting taken out in no way proves they aren't attacking it.

    Has someone who serves, you've got to be an idiot to think the military is going to record every instance of taken out equipment lol!

    I actually like Vann's posts its pure comedy and his idiocy makes me laugh.

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    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Thu Jun 09, 2022 5:49 am

    What most people here do not understand

    Is that simply conducting regime change, killing the leadership

    And installing a puppet, as well as even creating an army

    WONT WORK

    Why ? Because we have seen the Americans do this

    MANY TIMES

    And it does not work

    In Iraq, they did a good job, installed the puppet government, trained the army, and were there in camps and bases for nearly 20 years

    They had disbanded the republican guard, the military, rearmed the Iraqis with US weapons

    The CIA had infiltrated and cleansed the politicians

    They invested billions of dollars...

    And guess what...

    It all belongs to Iran now...

    Another example, Afghanistan, USA goes in, deposed the Taliban, install their government, and with military commanding Kabul, they see multiple puppets come and go.

    Hamid Karzai, Ashraf Ghani , and they build the ANA

    But the problem is... after 20 years,

    They infiltrate , they use the Pakistani ISI, they conduct drone strikes 24/7, hitting weddings, all men of military age

    And they lost the country in 2 weeks

    The reason germany, Japan, and Korea are continuing is ... guess what? Wink wink, they are still OCCUPIED

    So installing a puppet, murdering the leadership, and building an army the American way, or the American Empire template

    Will not work, not unless Russia plans on staying in Ukraine a la Germany, 1945-2022, so 79 years and invest billions of dollars, only to be internally divided and gasping for dying breath

    Then Russia cannot repeat this American mistake

    It is the ticket to a fast imperial collapse

    Russia must find a solution which will be different to the American template, which will not waste astronomical amounts of money

    Nor keep the Russian army in hostile territory, or maintaining permanent occupation for nearly 100 years

    It will be the end of Russia, just like the United States to repeat this template

    Killing zelensky, and installing a puppet will not work, until the concept of a functioning system and state can be conceived, with minimal Russian oversight

    Russia cannot waste its economy and military power, constantly managing Ukraine,

    In fact this is what fucked up USSR and is fucking USA up today

    So Kremlin has done a fantastic job so far

    Of not killing zelensky and falling into the quagmire of the American dilemma today, which is how to Make America Great Again ?

    Do we need such a problem in Russia? Internal hatred, vitriol, constant political infighting, over how to manage the rump empire?

    No, it's better to think deeply about this one, and grind the VSU until a real solution is presented.

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    caveat emptor
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    Post  caveat emptor Thu Jun 09, 2022 6:52 am

    Arkanghelsk wrote:What most people here do not understand

    Is that simply conducting regime change, killing the leadership

    And installing a puppet, as well as even creating an army

    WONT WORK

    Why ? Because we have seen the Americans do this

    MANY TIMES

    And it does not work

    In Iraq, they did a good job, installed the puppet government, trained the army, and were there in camps and bases for nearly 20 years

    They had disbanded the republican guard, the military, rearmed the Iraqis with US weapons

    The CIA had infiltrated and cleansed the politicians

    They invested billions of dollars...

    And guess what...

    It all belongs to Iran now...

    Another example, Afghanistan, USA goes in, deposed the Taliban, install their government, and with military commanding Kabul, they see multiple puppets come and go.

    Hamid Karzai, Ashraf Ghani , and they build the ANA

    But the problem is... after 20 years,

    They infiltrate , they use the Pakistani ISI, they conduct drone strikes 24/7, hitting weddings, all men of military age

    And they lost the country in 2 weeks

    The reason germany, Japan, and Korea are continuing is ... guess what? Wink wink, they are still OCCUPIED

    So installing a puppet, murdering the leadership, and building an army the American way, or the American Empire template

    Will not work, not unless Russia plans on staying in Ukraine a la Germany, 1945-2022, so 79 years and invest billions of dollars, only to be internally divided and gasping for dying breath

    Then Russia cannot repeat this American mistake

    It is the ticket to a fast imperial collapse

    Russia must find a solution which will be different to the American template, which will not waste astronomical amounts of money

    Nor keep the Russian army in hostile territory, or maintaining permanent occupation for nearly 100 years

    It will be the end of Russia, just like the United States to repeat this template

    Killing zelensky, and installing a puppet will not work, until the concept of a functioning system and state can be conceived,  with minimal Russian oversight

    Of not killing zelensky and falling into the quagmire of the American dilemma today,  which is how to Make America Great Again ?

    Imo, annexing manageable parts of the country (NovoRussia) and inflicting heavy losses in manpower to Ukrainian army should do the trick.
    Heavy loss in military field accompanied with heavy death toll of the army and destruction of economy will put rest of Ukraine in state of lethargy unable to fight another war for a long time. Also, that would probably mean that many people that left, would decide not to come back. There would be a blowback against current government, as well. Natural process of healing, accepting the defeat and moving on.

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    ALAMO


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    Post  ALAMO Thu Jun 09, 2022 7:12 am

    JohninMK wrote:A Canadian journalist reporting for CBC News Canada the views of Ukrainian soldiers in Bakhmut.
    Looks like some realism is starting to penetrate Western reporting.

    Throughout more than three months of war, Ukrainian troops have largely held Russian forces at bay. With skilful tactics and grim determination, Ukrainian defenders have pushed Moscow's troops away from the capital, Kyiv, and forced them to abandon designs for capturing the entire country.
    But in the country's east, where Russian forces are intensifying efforts on the embattled Donbas region, weeks of brutal combat have pushed the defenders to a breaking point.
    Now, under ceaseless bombardment and after immense casualties, some Ukrainian troops say they are feeling abandoned by their leadership — left to die in hopeless conditions.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/eastern-ukraine-bakhmut-soldiers-exhausted-1.6278984

    Wondering how are you going to connect that two bold parts? Laughing
    The first phrase of an article is already a lie.
    Yes, I know - it is just a part of a show.
    "Journos" can't write the true picture of events, because they used to lie about it 3 months in a row.
    Still, they do feel what is coming.
    It is a shitstorm rising, they won't be able to hold it for long.
    Ukro personal loses hit 50k, and we talk KIA only. Due to the real face of this war, the number of wounded is similar, opposite to the stats we are used to. Due to mass propaganda combined with nazi elements performing executions of the soldiers willing to surrender, the number of POWs is relatively low either, at 15+k combined in the republics and Russia.
    The number of materials where organized military parts deny the orders, filming that, and airing in public are rising. It is a sick joke already, but again it will surprise only people who know no Ukrainians. The biggest concern of the Polish military command for more than age was how to make them fulfill the orders, treaties, and subordinates. The "maidan" is not a new thing, this was a way how the mob was resolving all the major issues there. If an ataman was not lucky enough, he could be just thrown out of a window directly on the pikes the mob down there hold in hands.
    One can't hide that all already. It will boil out, like a shit out of a broken toilet.

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    Post  Scorpius Thu Jun 09, 2022 7:24 am

    The Russian military involved in a special operation in Ukraine a link of four Su-57 fighters linked into a single information network in order to destroy air defense facilities, an informed source told RIA Novosti.
    https://ria-ru.turbopages.org/ria.ru/s/20220609/su-57-1794141220.html

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    Post  Backman Thu Jun 09, 2022 7:45 am

    Has anyone heard of Spaces ? It's a conversation platform on Twitter. There's some good ones about the war. For example https://twitter.com/i/spaces/1yoKMWzoqOpJQ

    A guy from India took the mic and said that the US is ready to turn on India. He watches this closely and he says that there's already rumors about Al Queda terrorism rearing it's head. He was basically saying that this is a war between the Anglosphere/west and everyone else. India cant afford for Russia to lose. Russia won't lose but it has to meet some strategic objectives too.

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    Post  ALAMO Thu Jun 09, 2022 8:41 am

    caveat emptor wrote:
    Imo, annexing manageable parts of the country (NovoRussia) and inflicting heavy losses in manpower to Ukrainian army should do the trick.
    Heavy loss in military field accompanied with heavy death toll of the army and destruction of economy will put rest of Ukraine in state of lethargy unable to fight another war for a long time. Also, that would probably mean that many people that left, would decide not to come back. There would be a blowback against current government, as well. Natural process of healing, accepting the defeat and moving on.

    This is what I was saying.
    Cut it off the sea, and make it landlocked.
    Keep it for rooting.
    If we take economic parameters, it will be a 15+ mln country worse than Moldova.
    EU won't subsidize it, because can't afford that.
    A perfect buffer zone, and a reservoir of cheap labor.
    Let them "siegheil" over a bowl of thin rice.

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    Post  sundoesntrise Thu Jun 09, 2022 9:01 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:First of only Vann would be retarded enough to think if its not on video its not happening, Just because they don't record every single thing getting taken out in no way proves they aren't attacking it.

    Has someone who serves, you've got to be an idiot to think the military is going to record every instance of taken out equipment lol!

    I actually like Vann's posts its pure comedy and his idiocy makes me laugh.

    Is this one of miketheterrible's 6 sockpuppet accounts?
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    Post  Regular Thu Jun 09, 2022 9:36 am

    NIIstal is probably salivating from all the contracts they will get, in a meantime, in the real-world - mechanics and the crew are working hard and welding armor on anything that moves. There is a need for heavier vehicles and prefab armor addons, soldiers can only squeeze so much the life out of outdated vehicles. Bumerang, Kurganets, and T-15 need to be introduced on large scale.



    What are these armor blocks, I have never seen them being used before?

    Look at that subtle coloring. The tasteful thickness. Oh my God, it even has a watermark.

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #18 - Page 14 Image34

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #18 - Page 14 Image35
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    Post  ALAMO Thu Jun 09, 2022 10:07 am

    Guessing that those packages are not self-made. Looks way too good.
    It is some prefabricated stuff that you can install if not interested in keeping the buoyancy anymore. scratch

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    Post  Firebird Thu Jun 09, 2022 10:22 am

    Arkanghelsk wrote:What most people here do not understand

    Is that simply conducting regime change, killing the leadership

    And installing a puppet, as well as even creating an army

    WONT WORK


    Its a difficult one. Almost half the former country would be happy to even integrate with Russia.
    A quarter is mixed or snide and holds some festering resentment... mostly from Western/Fascist propaganda.
    A quarter are vermin hell bent on Fascism.

    The Chechen approach had surprising success, and we hope it continues after Kadyrov.

    One question is do you have a pro Russia area moderating the anti Russian feelings of another?
    Or does that risk the anti Russians contaminating the rest?

    My view is that Western forces caused many of the problems. With them gone, you can eventually fix a lot.

    Ultimately it looks like 4 areas. Novorossiya - easy. Malorossiya - a longer job and more mixed.
    The West - aside from the non Ukrainian areas its an absolute pain. Demilitarise, deNazify and make it clear they can play nice or wallow in poverty for decades. There's also the question of how hard the border controls need to be between these areas.

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    Post  Werewolf Thu Jun 09, 2022 10:30 am

    sundoesntrise wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:First of only Vann would be retarded enough to think if its not on video its not happening, Just because they don't record every single thing getting taken out in no way proves they aren't attacking it.

    Has someone who serves, you've got to be an idiot to think the military is going to record every instance of taken out equipment lol!

    I actually like Vann's posts its pure comedy and his idiocy makes me laugh.

    Is this one of miketheterrible's 6 sockpuppet accounts?

    No. Mike's posts were often emotionally loaded but had made lot of sense in what was happening or his views on the situation.

    Vann is a type of Person who enjoys himself while writing the illogical things he reads somewhere. He sees himself as a beacon of knowledge and bringing wisdom to us half-monkeys with his superior understanding of everything.

    I would guess locking up Mike and Vann in one room would be a comical scene to experience. One raging and punching while the other is experiencing an orgasm as he hears himself speaking. Laughing

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    Post  Ned86 Thu Jun 09, 2022 10:35 am

    Vann7 wrote:Another video ,that shows clearly russian army tactics , not efficient in ukraine.

    the minister of defense released another video ..

    this time shows , how russia found a region infested with nato artillery , and after attacking the entire
    region with many dozens of rockets strikes ,  they only manage to hit just one nato artillery . No


    This is not rocket strike, because explosions are way too small for either one Russian MLRS.
    I am not sure was this some sort of cluster ammo, or unguided rockets fired from Helicopter......

    Yeah it was not the best, but many of these Artillery systems were damaged for sure.

    Vann7 wrote:
    is interesting how a same video can be perceived as a "major success" by fanboys of russia , like
    the video author , but at same time , seen as a major failure for people that are objective and understand that time means lives , and the longer russia delays the destruction of adversaries  artillery and air defenses ,with precision weapons , the more lives , is going to cost them , in soldiers and civilians .

    I am wondering will you start complaining about russian optics in this Mi-35 video ?

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    Post  Mir Thu Jun 09, 2022 10:40 am

    ALAMO wrote:Guessing that those packages are not self-made. Looks way too good.
    It is some prefabricated stuff that you can install if not interested in keeping the buoyancy anymore. scratch

    Professionally manufactured. They even offer a amphibian package >>

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #18 - Page 14 Bmp2-f10

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    Post  RTN Thu Jun 09, 2022 10:54 am

    sundoesntrise wrote:Is this one of miketheterrible's 6 sockpuppet accounts?
    You should know.

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    Post  Regular Thu Jun 09, 2022 11:01 am

    Mir wrote:
    ALAMO wrote:Guessing that those packages are not self-made. Looks way too good.
    It is some prefabricated stuff that you can install if not interested in keeping the buoyancy anymore. scratch

    Professionally manufactured. They even offer a amphibian package >>

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #18 - Page 14 Bmp2-f10

    Looks nice and tidy, definitely not something that can snag and rip off going through vegetation.

    I also don't think amphibious vehicles are that relevant for Russia now.

    Rivers Russia are facing either have unsuitable shores, or they are too strong to risk it. Best to use pontoons. Kurganets is also not amphibious without buoyancy ballasts, so it kinda shows that cold war mobility is not as important now for Russia.

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    Post  Hinex1988 Thu Jun 09, 2022 11:17 am

    ⚡Briefing by Russian Defence Ministry

    ▫Engineering units of the Russian Armed Forces have started clearing roads and forest areas of the Svyatye Gory National Park near Svyatogorsk, Yarovaya, Studenok and Sosnovoe of Donetsk People's Republic. Over the past 24 hours, 126 explosive devices of various types, including 54 anti-tank mines, planted by Ukrainian nationalists have been found and destroyed.

    ▫The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue the special military operation in Ukraine.

    💥High-precision air-based missile strike near Novograd-Volynskyi, Zhytomir Region, has destroyed 1 AFU training centre where foreign mercenaries were being retrained and coordinated.

    💥In addition, high-precision air-based missiles have destroyed 2 command posts, 1 Osa-AKM anti-aircraft missile system near Razdolovka in Donetsk People's Republic, 1 ammunition depot near Paraskovievka in Lugansk People's Republic, and 23 areas of AFU manpower and military equipment concentration.
    Operational-tactical and army aviation have hit 18 areas of AFU manpower and military equipment concentration.

    ▫The attacks have resulted in the elimination of more than 200 nationalists, 5 tanks, 2 Grad multiple rocket launchers and 1 warehouse of missile and artillery weapons near Verkhnekamenskoe, Lugansk People's Republic.

    💥Russian air defence means have shot down Su-25 aircraft of Ukrainian Air Force near Mazanovka, Donetsk People's Republic.

    ▫Also, 13 Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles have been shot down near Slavnoe, Prechistovka, Kudryashovka, Epifanovka in Donetsk People's Republic, Varvarovka, Borovenki in Lugansk People's Republic, Tokmak in Zaporizhzhya Region, Petrovskoe, Suligovka in Kharkov Region, Snegirovka, Aleksandrovka and the Mogyla Kulich barrow in Kherson Region.

    ▫In addition, 1 Ukrainian Tochka-U ballistic missile have been intercepted near Kirovo in Kherson Region, and 2 Smerch rockets have been shot down near Kamenka, Kharkov Region, and Panteleimonovka, Donetsk People's Republic.

    💥Missile troops and artillery have hit 56 command posts, 127 firing positions of AFU artillery, as well as 273 areas of manpower and military equipment concentration.

    ▫The attacks have resulted in the elimination of more than 300 nationalists, 7 armoured vehicles, 2 Grad multiple rocket launchers, 12 field artillery guns and mortars, 24 special vehicles, 1 fuel storage facility for military equipment near Kobzartsy in Nikolaev Region, and 1 crossing of Seversky Donets River near Protopopovka.

    📊In total, 193 Ukrainian airplanes and 130 helicopters, 1,163 unmanned aerial vehicles, 336 anti-aircraft missile systems, 3,471 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 493 multiple launch rocket systems, 1,834 field artillery and mortars, as well as 3,512 units of special military vehicles were destroyed during the operation.

    #MoD #Russia #Ukraine #Briefing
    @mod_russia_en

    https://t.me/mod_russia_en/2106

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    Post  Sprut-B Thu Jun 09, 2022 12:01 pm

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    Post  Hole Thu Jun 09, 2022 12:34 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #18 - Page 14 Fuv88o10
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #18 - Page 14 Fuxnap10
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #18 - Page 14 Fuzjb_10

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    Post  Hole Thu Jun 09, 2022 12:35 pm

    Dr.Snufflebug wrote:In Empire news, the post of chief military priest was reinstated in Russia:
    https://newizv.ru/news/society/08-06-2022/rpts-vernula-dorevolyutsionnuyu-dolzhnost-glavnogo-svyaschennika-armii-i-flota

    Post was removed in 1918, as the Empire fell.


    He will be sanctioned in 3... 2... Very Happy

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    Post  Walther von Oldenburg Thu Jun 09, 2022 12:36 pm

    Why are Sloviansk and Kramatorsk so important?

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