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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #17

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    ALAMO


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    Post  ALAMO Tue May 24, 2022 9:10 am

    Backman wrote:Denmark to give Ukraine anti-ship missiles with 250KM range — USA

    These stupidll ideas are concerning. And they keep coming. This is why I was suggesting to jump on Odessa

    That is what I was thinking about.
    How minimalize the threat of 250km range anti-ship missiles?
    Occupy a 300km zone along the whole shore Laughing Laughing

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    Post  Serberus Tue May 24, 2022 9:20 am

    https://t.me/anna_news/32848
    “Over the administration building of the city of Svetlodarsk in the Donetsk People's Republic, after years of occupation, the Russian flag flutters. Earlier, the forces of the Kyiv regime left the city without a fight and retreated to the north.”

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    Post  Big_Gazza Tue May 24, 2022 9:23 am

    Erk wrote:How did Ukraine get the M777s all the way to the front lines undetected?

    Who said they did? Maybe the Russians simply tracked them and hit them once they were deployed. Observing how the Ukrotrash attempt to conceal equipment movements is useful intel in itself.

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    Post  nomadski Tue May 24, 2022 9:23 am


    West Ukraine may never be an area within Russian influence , it will be within EU , or even NATO , a separate country to new Russia region . It will have it's own population needing a defence force , that will be from US or EU sources . This population , has to survive , and have trade and shipping and commerce . They can not all die , just because of politics or war . So normal civilian trade of export of grain by sea , and import of civilian goods should go ahead . But how about weapons ?


    This situation is an opportunity to reshape the politics of Eastern Europe , between Russia and EU and NATO . If neutrality can not be achieved , with NATO withdrawal . Then arms limitations may be achieved . For Eastern Europe as well as Ukraine . But in war , Russia can not agree to this . It can not say " you can have A , B , C , to hit our troops with ! "

    But in peacetime , arms limitations ( exclusion of long range of massive armaments for offensive capability ) may be achieved . But it is not peacetime ! But it can be a temporary ceasefire ! Allowing wheat shipments , and stopping weapon imports into Ukraine . Observed by Russia and UN . It may even allow , territorial settlement without war . But if not , then all could get back to killing again . No problem .



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    Post  limb Tue May 24, 2022 9:25 am

    ALAMO wrote:
    Backman wrote:Denmark to give Ukraine anti-ship missiles with 250KM range — USA

    These stupidll ideas are concerning. And they keep coming. This is why I was suggesting to jump on Odessa

    That is what I was thinking about.
    How minimalize the threat of 250km range anti-ship missiles?
    Occupy a 300km zone along the whole shore Laughing Laughing

    The Russians havent even started. Who knows how long it'll take. Hopefully the Russians have good humint in pro-russian budjak and Odessa.

    On a brighter note, svetlodarsk was liberated.

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    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Tue May 24, 2022 9:34 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:

    Who said they did?  Maybe the Russians simply tracked them and hit them once they were deployed.  Observing how the Ukrotrash attempt to conceal equipment movements is useful intel in itself.

    The smart cat lets the mouse stray a few feet from its hole.

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    Post  Firebird Tue May 24, 2022 10:20 am

    nomadski wrote:
    West Ukraine may never be an area within Russian influence ,  it will be within EU , or even NATO , a separate country to new Russia region . It will have it's own population needing a defence force , that will be from US or EU sources . This population , has to survive , and have trade and shipping and commerce . They can not all die , just  because of politics or war . So normal civilian trade of export of grain by sea , and import of civilian goods should go ahead . But how about weapons ?


    This situation is an opportunity to reshape the politics of Eastern Europe , between Russia and EU and NATO . If neutrality can not be achieved , with NATO withdrawal . Then arms limitations may be achieved . For Eastern Europe as well as Ukraine . But in war , Russia can not agree to this . It can not say " you can have A , B , C , to hit our troops with ! "

    But in peacetime , arms limitations ( exclusion of long range of massive armaments for offensive capability ) may be achieved . But it is not peacetime ! But it can be a temporary ceasefire ! Allowing wheat shipments , and stopping weapon imports into Ukraine . Observed by Russia and UN . It may even allow , territorial settlement without war . But if not , then all could get back to killing again . No problem .




    In a way, dealing with the Western Pukraine could be easier.
    Because in majority terms, these aren't pro Russian people, but anti Russian garbage to some extent or another.

    The Bandera-vermin won't use their own as human shields. ANd Russia doesn't really need to worry about killing Nazis anyway. After all, men or women... they are in truth terrorists and outside the ambit of any international conventions.

    I think the solution with be integration of the East and South Ukraine with Russia fairly rapidly. A nurturing and a cleaning up of a Central Ukraine, including Kiev.
    The West just needs to be demilitisarised and deNazified.

    So I would put medium grade border checkpoints between Malorossiya and Novorossiya.
    And very heavy checkpoints all around Western Ukraine. Especially to stop GATO arms coming in. ANd terrorist filth flooding into the rest of the former Ukraine.

    I'd also put Russian bases in the far West of the Ukraine, with buffer zones all around.

    I also wonder if a heavy Russian approach in the West and sealing off the Pukraine's borders right now might be an option. Of course that might necessitate more troops.

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    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Tue May 24, 2022 11:35 am

    Erk wrote:How did Ukraine get the M777s all the way to the front lines undetected?

    How about in small groups towed all the way using northern roads of which there are many?

    Or allowed through by road/rail and destroyed to make a point.

    As interesting is how the 155 ammo is getting through.
    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Tue May 24, 2022 11:37 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    PhSt wrote:Target wasn't hit. I don't care if Russia has to steal technology from their adversaries but they have to improve the accuracy of their weapon systems. attack

    Wasn't hit?  Whatever damage was inflicted by this (or other?) drone strikes was obviously sufficient to get the Ukie to demob from their firing positions and scoot into forest cover that they thought would be safe...  Razz

    M777s located, attacked, neutralised.

    Sounds effective to me.


    End of the day no, the arty can still function and the men that lived can still operate it, that's not effective.
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    Post  Podlodka77 Tue May 24, 2022 11:47 am

    Russia has already thrown Ukroshitstan in the direction of the Stone Age, while in the future Russia will become a black hole for Ukroshitstan - there is no way out.
    After the victory, Russia will return to the "Ukrainians" what they deserve and where they were for centuries earlier - a complex of lower value in relation to mother Russia ! Azovstal was Stalingrad for Ukroshitstan, while the battles around Lisichansk and Severodonetsk in the LPR, as well as the upcoming ones around Slavyansk and Kramatorsk in the DPR, will be the "Battle of Kursk". Right after the Battle of Kursk, the speed of the Red Army's advance was drastically increased. That is exactly what will follow after the victory in LPR and DPR.

    Precisely because of everything, this operation will take longer, because Russia will try to completely destroy all those who want to fight against Russia. Unfortunately, there are certainly those who were forcibly mobilized who would like to fight on the Russian side as well. There may not be many such people, but there are certainly some. I have already written that Russia should lead this operation as long as there are those who will say "Glory to Ukraine".
    Even the police have a law to shoot people under the age of 18 if they threaten to use firearms. And there is no mercy and all those who are imbued with hatred towards Russia should be killed. And then after the conflict let the liberals like flaming python bark as it was "war crimes" and Putins guilt.

    The question is what the sick heads in the West have come up with. The plans are coming from the West anyway, while Ukroshitstan is just trying (unsuccessfully) to implement them.
    Neither the anti-ship missiles "Harpoon" nor the air defense system "Patriot" will change the course of the conflict. It is possible that the West is planning to open a front towards Transnistria and try to hit a ship of the Russian Navy. It is not impossible for them to have a plan in the West and to shoot at Russian planes flying from the direction of Belarus. Whether the West has a desire to show the world the already questionable value of the "patriot" system is also a question.

    No Russian S-400 and S-300PM2 or S-300V4, 9K720 "Iskander", 3K55 "Bastion-P" were destroyed. That says enough about the value of these systems, while the H47M2 "Kinzhal" and 3M22 "Zircon" will raise everything to an even higher level. As for the 3M14 "Kalibr" and H-101 cruise missiles, they have already done enormous damage in Ukroshitstan, both on the energy, road and on the military infrastructure.

    If the "patriot" and the "harpoon" come into the possession of Ukroshitstan, then it is possible that Russia will try faster to take Nikolaev and Odessa. If the Ukrainians get the idea to put a "patriot" in the Sumy and Chernigov regions, then Russia will re-enter those areas. This has definitely become a conflict in which Russia is trying to completely break all possible capacities of Ukroshitstan; military, economic, energy and industrial, etc. Russia will destroy all of the above.
    The only thing I am not sure about and that none of us knows is the ultimate goal of the Russian state and military leadership. None of us knows which regions Russia wants to put under its zone of influence. After all, it is no longer a question of regions, but the existence of Ukroshitstan.

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    ALAMO


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    Post  ALAMO Tue May 24, 2022 11:57 am

    That is a kind of alternative scenario, too.
    It would be the Israelization of the European-based conflict.
    Russia will take all it wants, leaving the remaining corp rotting.
    Boarded by the high wall, and destroying anything and everyone who will be stupid enough to rise a head above the grass level.
    Sure it will bring some Palestinian level of hate, and made some opinion damage to Russia, but ... they will be presented as worse than the devil himself, no matter how they will proceed. So why should they give a f%k?

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    Post  Sujoy Tue May 24, 2022 12:07 pm

    U.S military officer celebrating the death of Russian soldiers. Was about to ask how low can they go. But then realised no low is too low for them.

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    Post  ALAMO Tue May 24, 2022 12:18 pm

    Is there any sense in commenting on someone who lives in an alternative universe?

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    Post  Isos Tue May 24, 2022 12:21 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Big_Gazza wrote:
    PhSt wrote:Target wasn't hit. I don't care if Russia has to steal technology from their adversaries but they have to improve the accuracy of their weapon systems. attack

    Wasn't hit?  Whatever damage was inflicted by this (or other?) drone strikes was obviously sufficient to get the Ukie to demob from their firing positions and scoot into forest cover that they thought would be safe...  Razz

    M777s located, attacked, neutralised.

    Sounds effective to me.


    End of the day no, the arty can still function and the men that lived can still operate it, that's not effective.

    For an unguided round it was very precise. The shrapnels probably killed plenty of operators there if they were around. They probably finished it with some other hits.

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    Hole
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    Post  Hole Tue May 24, 2022 12:53 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #17 - Page 4 Ftc6xd10
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #17 - Page 4 Ftgqqt10
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #17 - Page 4 Svetlo10
    Svetlodarsk

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    Post  Hole Tue May 24, 2022 12:53 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #17 - Page 4 Ftgemh10
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #17 - Page 4 Ftgemw10
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #17 - Page 4 Ftgens10

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    Post  Hole Tue May 24, 2022 12:54 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #17 - Page 4 Scree324
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #17 - Page 4 Scree325
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #17 - Page 4 Scree326
    Repairing tracks

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    Post  Hole Tue May 24, 2022 12:55 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #17 - Page 4 Popasn11
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #17 - Page 4 Popasn12
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #17 - Page 4 Popasn13
    Popasnaya

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    Post  Hole Tue May 24, 2022 12:56 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #17 - Page 4 Scree327
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #17 - Page 4 Scree328
    Some checkpoint

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    Post  GarryB Tue May 24, 2022 1:57 pm

    But to use weapon systems and destroy targets I can hardly believe. Dumb bombs, unguided rockets - they would be ineffective in the hands of cadets. You would hardly be able to make out targets, navigate accurately - much less aim.

    As they seem to be getting shot down before arriving at their target areas the precision of their weapon delivery is not really important as it isn't being tested.

    But it's a lot of workload for one pilot not even out of the academy - to simultaneously fly the aircraft, distinguish friendly from enemy forces, and manage a guided weapons system at the same time.

    Why are you assuming inexperienced conscript pilots?

    The Ukraine had an air force... much of which was destroyed on the ground. They planes they have now probably had half a dozen pilots flying each one on and off plus all the other planes they have lost which never got airborne so their pilots are safe and alive.

    Odds are pretty good they have more pilots than planes, though as they get each one in the air and it gets shot down they will lose them as fast as they get them airborne.

    As a Russian, if you are a Russian, I will repeat again that I can't stand your liberal wiews. I have never heard from Hole or Big Gazza, or Garry B , that Putin is a "war criminal", because those are your words. **** that "we are brothers" because " at least half of today's Ukraine doesn't see you or any other Russian as a brother. Russian language is forbidden, they want to destroy all Russian churches.... Those are "brothers" ? FP, go FYS !

    I agree with what you are saying, but Russians should act with culture and be civilised like the Germans and Japanese now the Ukrainians (and EU and US) have not. If Russia lowers itself to brutalising prisoners, then what are you fighting for... one brand of criminality over another... if that is the case who cares who wins because you are all bastards.

    Lol, do you know how absurd this sounds for someone who actually been to Ukraine? 20 years ago or so people barely spoke Ukrainian.
    You just sound like Ukrainian extremist who are breaking their backs trying to prove that Ukraine and Russia are not connected in any way.

    Or is he a realist and is recognising the facts on the ground have changed. Does Russia need to invade and bully the population into loving Russia the way the US and EU overthrew Kiev and imposed their nazi hatred for Russia so easily?

    Ukraine has, like the west been poisoned against Russia... not all of course, but a lot of it is gone and out of reach... why reach for it when they are just going to cut off your fingers.

    Save the ones who want to be saved and discard the rest and then turn your back on the west who created this whole situation in the first place and get on with getting one with the rest of the world.

    Very good example. But West does like to change their toys often. We will see, Chechens were much more hostile than Ukrainians not long ago, and look at them now.

    Can't really say changing their minds was very easy... two very costly conflicts and probably a lot of money too... Is the Ukraine worth that... don't think the western Ukraine is... the Baltic states aren't...

    But brilliant step - through bicycle design . No risk of bruising the bollocks and totally functional ! Unisex . Probably the best thing out of Holland !

    As long as you don't get shot because they think there is a missile in there...

    Smart people, not traitors, but realists.

    If Zelensky objects he can always take up arms himself.

    Mist of the oligarchs didn't become rich because they are good in business.
    I know that some smaller level businessmen provided help.

    You can't get super rich if you are the sort of person that helps out friends and family and the community around you...

    Starovoit in particular could sell his presumably luxurious cars or dachas to fund more Shorads to protect belgorod villages for example.

    They would not be rich and you would not know their names if they had such a generous nature....

    I have to agree that Russian oligarchs, with few exceptions, are one despicable lot. Unfortunately, there's a lot of rot in the government structures. Russia needs awakening. But that's another story.

    When they are Rooskies then we call them Oligarchs... a derogatory term... in the west such people are called the Business elite and are revered... no one demands this or that rich western person forks out their own money to fix this or that, but when one decides to spend money they get fawned over like they are not the total censored that they had to be to get that rich in the first place.

    ^ there's nothing proprietary about Turkish drones. Russia has its own versions and could copy the design if they're so great. Maybe they should just for the troll factor.

    They just happen to be the cornerstone of Turkeys arms industry so they get hyped.

    Ironically against an enemy like Russia their vulnerabilities make them pretty ordinary in terms of effectiveness, but against a western power or a country that uses western based air defences like Saudi Arabia they can be devastating because they are not seen...

    So Russia developing drones and also defences against drones is making Russia stronger and rather more dangerous for the west... Russia might be a little behind in murder bot drones... but the west is arse backwards in air defence and showing no signs of fixing that...

    The west is air power based which is terrible for defending against drones.

    Even russian defense ministry released own videos shows the lack of precision of their drones..

    You do understand that this drone footage is just to record the results so the location of its crosshairs means nothing at all in terms of "accuracy" .

    It would be like telling someone to look through binoculars while you shoot a rifle... what they are looking at has nothing to do with where you are aiming... your crosshair might be right on the target while the person with the binoculars is looking at something else... when you fire and hit your target from the video from the binoculars you appear to miss what they are looking at, but you were never aiming at what the guy with the binos was looking at anyway.

    The video shows a group of guns being towed along a road... the drone watches them and then the trucks park and the guns are deployed and you can see a round released from a drone drop down and it explodes on the ground and the troops scatter... the then hitch up the guns and move into a forested area for cover and the last few seconds of that video shows what appears to be an artillery barrage land on part of that forested area... likely to be followed up by several more because hiding in trees can be fun but shrapnel can go through trees... they will have watched the video of their first volley of shells and where they landed... corrections will be made and another volley fired that will be rather more deadly.

    It is likely these M777 haven't fired a shot yet and they are getting hit by drones and Russian artillery...

    I am sure you think it is Putins fault.

    Even russian defense ministry released own videos shows the lack of precision of their drones..
    that completely missed the artillery , at best wounded 1 soldier at the far right , because everyone else ran away after the bomb explode ,running in the opposite direction away of the explosion.

    They are not going to wipe out the entire unit with hand grenade sized bombs from a drone... the Orc artillery force was on the move and when it stopped to take some shots they got attacked by the drones that were monitoring them... they pack up and move to a forested area where they think they are safe from drone attack because they are under trees... but the drones remain and at the end of the video volleys of Russian counter battery fire arrive... the drones will supply video of the impacts to the artillery battery who will look at it and correct their fire for the next volley.

    What is wrong with this?

    No one's kamikaze drones have been really impressive so far, switchblade included

    Every fan boy bollocks on about kamikazi drones... tell me... how many guns and men would a kamikazi drone take out?

    1?

    This drone is able to disrupt the fire of the entire unit and perhaps does some damage, but most importantly it sees where they run to and remains there while the first volley of counter battery fire arrives which means the force that fired those shells can correct and get right on target with their next volley.

    A hell of a lot more useful than some kamikazi drone could have achieved.

    Target wasn't hit. I don't care if Russia has to steal technology from their adversaries but they have to improve the accuracy of their weapon systems.

    How can you tell? Look at the image at about 11 seconds... those puffs of dirt around the impact explosion point are large fragments ripping into the ground... how many can't we see?

    That single bomb dropped was not to take the unit it... it was to stop it from firing and get it to move... which is seems to have achieved.

    How did Ukraine get the M777s all the way to the front lines undetected?

    They were tracking them with drones... hardly undetected...

    I heard there will be NASAMs deliveries to Ukraine. Probably Aster 15 and Aster 30s too.

    Would be useful for Russia to get some practise in dealing with such systems... and it sets a precedent that if the west starts getting shooty with any other country on the planet the options for Russia to assist that country are expanding now are they not?

    For an unguided round it was very precise. The shrapnels probably killed plenty of operators there if they were around. They probably finished it with some other hits.

    We have seen in the videos that each underwing pod there are two bombs so one under each wing means up to four bombs carried and only one is dropped... suggesting it was intended to get the unit the to pack up and move... which we see later in the video... which stops after the first volley of counter battery fire arrives... a few calculations and the next volley will be closer to the target... the scatter of the rounds meaning they are after the entire group rather than individual vehicles or guns... they are trying to kill the men and destroy the trucks.

    - ukraine sinked the best russian destroyer in black sea with drones support likely and or antiship missiles? if they could do it with mosca, they can do it with every other warships in russian black sea.

    There is no evidence the Orcs had anything to do with the fire and sinking of the Moskva cruiser, and in terms of air defence it was as ancient as the Orcs... OSA, S-300F, and 30mm gatling guns is the equivalent of OSA, S-300P, and Shilka... its main feature was a large radar antenna array that was useful at the time for the job at hand.

    The lack of blast damage suggests nothing hit it at all... as Big Gazza mentioned a failed S-300 missile might have fallen onto the deck and burned and started a fire... there is no obvious blast damage like there would be with an Anti ship missile hit (let alone two as they claim). It looks more like a fire.

    The west can send anything it likes to its nazi allies... it wont change the outcome but will change the way Russia responds to the west in the future... this is going to cost a lot of western lives when their enemies suddenly have MANPADS and ATGMs in enormous numbers... except these will be effective ones and the users will be properly trained first.

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    Eugenio Argentina
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    Post  Eugenio Argentina Tue May 24, 2022 3:10 pm

    The West always with its stupid lies.
    Already during the Lebanon War in 2006, the Israelis said: "Hezbollah is running out of missiles."
    Now they say: "Russia is running out of missiles."
    They are very unimaginative.
    In addition, it is necessary to limit that the missiles that are being used are being used against certain targets.
    In other words, they fulfill the objective of degrading the enemy's military force.
    And as happened with Hezbollah, when this war is over, Russia will have more and better weapons, not less.
    Apart from having achieved their goal, as much as Western fans repeat that Ukraine is winning.


    Cool

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    Post  Eugenio Argentina Tue May 24, 2022 3:12 pm

    Even our well-known pro-Western analyst Tom Cooper cannot hide the Russian advance and the Ukrainian losses.
    The theme of some "successes" of Ukraine's anti-ship missiles is not much believed.

    https://medium.com/@x_TomCooper_x/ukraine-war-21-22-23-may-2022-585dddf58bf1

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    Hinex1988


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    Post  Hinex1988 Tue May 24, 2022 3:30 pm

    ⚡Briefing by Russian Defence Ministry

    ▫The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue the special military operation in Ukraine.

    💥High-precision air-based missiles have hit 3 command posts, 36 areas of AFU manpower and military equipment concentration, 1 self-propelled artillery division of the 14th Mechanized Brigade near Soledar, as well as 6 ammunition depots in Minkovka, Bakhmut, Nikolaevka, Spornoe and Krasnyi Liman in the Donetsk People's Republic, including 1 large depot of 155 mm shells for US M-777 howitzer in Razdolovka during the day.

    ✈💥Operational-tactical and army aviation have hit 2 command posts, 3 ammunition depots, 80 areas of Ukrainian manpower and military equipment concentration, as well as 1 Buk-M1 anti-aircraft missile system near Pilipchatino in the Donetsk People's Republic.

    ▫The attacks have resulted in the elimination of more than 210 nationalists and up to 31 armoured and motor vehicles.

    ▫Also, Russian fighter aviation have shot down 1 Ukrainian MiG-29 aircraft near Kramotorsk in the Donetsk People's Republic.

    💥Missile troops and artillery have hit 84 command posts, 463 areas of AFU manpower and military equipment concentration, as well as 137 artillery and mortar units at firing positions.

    ▫13 tanks and armoured combat vehicles, 4 Grad multiple rocket launchers and 3 ammunition depots have been destroyed.

    💥Russian air defence means have shot down 5 unmanned aerial vehicles in Chernobaevka in Kherson Region, Dibrovnoe, Kamenka, Pitomnik and Malye Prokhody in Kharkov Region.

    ▫In addition, 4 Ukrainian Smerch multiple-launch rockets have been intercepted over Topolskoe, Semenovka and Sukhaya Kamenka in Kharkov Region.

    📊In total, 178 Ukrainian aircraft and 125 helicopters, 995 unmanned aerial vehicles, 320 anti-aircraft missile systems, 3,243 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 425 multiple launch rocket systems, 1,658 field artillery and mortars, as well as 3,124 units of special military vehicles were destroyed during the operation.

    #MoD #Russia #Ukraine #Briefing
    @mod_russia_en

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    Post  Podlodka77 Tue May 24, 2022 3:48 pm

    Eugenio Argentina wrote:Even our well-known pro-Western analyst Tom Cooper cannot hide the Russian advance and the Ukrainian losses.
    The theme of some "successes" of Ukraine's anti-ship missiles is not much believed.

    https://medium.com/@x_TomCooper_x/ukraine-war-21-22-23-may-2022-585dddf58bf1

    Cool

    Let's exclude for a moment all those "analysts" from the West ... You know what bothers me the most ? That overnight in the West they began to write Kyiv instead of KIEV, Kharkiv instead of KHARKOV, Mikolayiv instead of NIKOLAEV, Zaporizhzhia instead of Zaporozhye, etc ..

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    Post  JohninMK Tue May 24, 2022 4:06 pm

    Hinex1988 wrote:⚡Briefing by Russian Defence Ministry

    6 ammunition depots in Minkovka, Bakhmut, Nikolaevka, Spornoe and Krasnyi Liman in the Donetsk People's Republic, including 1 large depot of 155 mm shells for US M-777 howitzer in Razdolovka during the day.

    Interesting location for the 155mm dump, quite a way back from the front and not in DPR. The major depot perhaps, the MoD said "main".

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