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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #15

    caveat emptor
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    Post  caveat emptor Sat May 07, 2022 3:04 pm

    Some people seem to miss the point. If reports were true, and Moskva really had all those problems with nonworking subsystems, than this is a question of criminal negligence. Sending soldiers to war with nonfunctional ship is an act of crime. Especially, since there was no pressing need to do that and other ships were available.
    Second thing, i see that Garry mentioned parallels with Serbian pilots. That, as well, was an act of criminal negligence and incompetence. After the war and when Milosevic was gone there was an outcry and people asked that, then acting commander of RV and PVO, general Smiljanic be prosecuted, but everything was swept under the carpet and he was only retired.
    As PD said, in this case, Russia is a side with much stronger army and more resources, so blunders like these carry even more weight.
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Sat May 07, 2022 3:10 pm

    caveat emptor wrote:Some people seem to miss the point. If reports were true, and Moskva really had all those problems with nonworking subsystems, than this is a question of criminal negligence. Sending soldiers to war with nonfunctional ship is an act of crime. Especially, since there was no pressing need to do that and other ships were available.
    Second thing, i see that Garry mentioned parallels with Serbian pilots. That, as well, was an act of criminal negligence and incompetence. After the war and when Milosevic was gone there was an outcry and people asked that, then acting commander of RV and PVO, general Smiljanic be prosecuted, but everything was swept under the carpet and he was only retired.
    As PD said, in this case, Russia is a side with much stronger army and more resources, so blunders like these carry even more weight.

    Your wasting your time, the fanboys here will never agree with you, I call them fanboys for a reason because they will defend a criminal act like this since its Russia but say the US did it, oh boy they wouldn't stop bringing it up.
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    Post  PapaDragon Sat May 07, 2022 3:18 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:...Your wasting your time, the fanboys here will never agree with you, I call them fanboys for a reason because they will defend a criminal act like this since its Russia but say the US did it, oh boy they wouldn't stop bringing it up.

    Also why wouldn't USA do this?

    It makes perfect sense and if I were running Pentagon it would be the first thing I would do

    Anyone with more than two brain cells could see it coming and should expect it

    I can't believe that they are actually openly whining about it, this is like Ukrainians complaining about getting bombed in the middle of the war, what else did they think would happen?

    If USA really had something to do with it it was perfectly valid play and the best troll move since Operation Cyclone





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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Sat May 07, 2022 3:20 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:...Your wasting your time, the fanboys here will never agree with you, I call them fanboys for a reason because they will defend a criminal act like this since its Russia but say the US did it, oh boy they wouldn't stop bringing it up.

    Also why wouldn't USA do this?

    It makes perfect sense and if I were running Pentagon it would be the first thing I would do

    Anyone with more than two brain cells could see it coming and should expect it

    I can't believe that they are actually openly whining about it, this is like Ukrainians complaining about getting bombed in the middle of the war, what else did they think would happen?

    If USA really had something to do with it it was perfectly valid play and the best troll move since Operation Cyclone






    We did, we helped them sink it, but Russia won't do shit but bomb Ukraine.

    but by do it, I meant send a ship into combat action not functional
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    Post  Dr.Snufflebug Sat May 07, 2022 3:42 pm

    Seems like the massive Bayraktar wave on Snake island yesterday led to one inactive (exhausted) Tor unit destroyed and one small moored boat destroyed.

    Five or more Bayraktars were shot down in the process.

    These waves do echo the attacks on neighboring Russian regions as of late. Russia has to realize that UA treats million dollar UCAVs as expendable TikTok one-offs, and plan accordingly.





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    Post  caveat emptor Sat May 07, 2022 3:53 pm

    Rybar says that Popasna was taken and that currently they are cleaning out remaining Ukrainians.
    https://t.me/rybar/32326

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    Post  flamming_python Sat May 07, 2022 4:06 pm

    Russia really doesn't look like it's in any sort of hurry to win this war.

    Still lurking around in Popasnaya and Mariupol; after Feb, March, April, now May

    lol

    But it does make sense on a lot of levels. The West are now the ones dumping mercs, arms, fueld and tens of billions of dollars in financial support every month into an Afghanistan, while all Russia has to do is just hold to minimizing losses.

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    Post  Mir Sat May 07, 2022 4:17 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:...Your wasting your time, the fanboys here will never agree with you, I call them fanboys for a reason because they will defend a criminal act like this since its Russia but say the US did it, oh boy they wouldn't stop bringing it up.

    Also why wouldn't USA do this?

    It makes perfect sense and if I were running Pentagon it would be the first thing I would do

    Anyone with more than two brain cells could see it coming and should expect it

    I can't believe that they are actually openly whining about it, this is like Ukrainians complaining about getting bombed in the middle of the war, what else did they think would happen?

    If USA really had something to do with it it was perfectly valid play and the best troll move since Operation Cyclone

    Everybody that knows something knows that US/NATzo intelligence is provided to the Ukrs on a 24/7 basis but the Pentagon can never admit it as it would be equal to a declaration of war.

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    Post  PapaDragon Sat May 07, 2022 4:28 pm

    flamming_python wrote:Russia really doesn't look like it's in any sort of hurry to win this war.

    Still lurking around in Popasnaya and Mariupol; after Feb, March, April, now May

    lol

    But it does make sense on a lot of levels. The West are now the ones dumping mercs, arms, fueld and tens of billions of dollars in financial support every month into an Afghanistan, while all Russia has to do is just hold to minimizing losses.

    And this is the smart play

    Biggest surprise for me after first month passed was that Russian finances are holding

    Combine that with full popular support that materialized in the process and you have a situation where Russia can and should take all the time it needs and go slow and steady

    Numbers mean that time is on their side now, let others bleed and waste away






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    Post  Hole Sat May 07, 2022 4:46 pm

    Dr.Snufflebug wrote:Seems like the massive Bayraktar wave on Snake island yesterday led to one inactive (exhausted) Tor unit destroyed and one small moored boat destroyed.

    Five or more Bayraktars were shot down in the process.

    These waves do echo the attacks on neighboring Russian regions as of late. Russia has to realize that UA treats million dollar UCAVs as expendable TikTok one-offs, and plan accordingly.






    In reality land this means that the leadership of this failed fake country realised that it lost the war, that´s why they use drones and other stuff for propaganda instead of at least trying to use them for real military purposes.

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    Post  Hole Sat May 07, 2022 4:53 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:Russia really doesn't look like it's in any sort of hurry to win this war.

    Still lurking around in Popasnaya and Mariupol; after Feb, March, April, now May

    lol

    But it does make sense on a lot of levels. The West are now the ones dumping mercs, arms, fueld and tens of billions of dollars in financial support every month into an Afghanistan, while all Russia has to do is just hold to minimizing losses.

    And this is the smart play

    Biggest surprise for me after first month passed was that Russian finances are holding

    Combine that with full popular support that materialized in the process and you have a situation where Russia can and should take all the time it needs and go slow and steady

    Numbers mean that time is on their side now, let others bleed and waste away







    That´s one of the reasons why they didn´t destroy the whole railways structure in the west of Banderastan. They let a lot of stuff in and then started to destroying it, then the railway network was hit, trapping a lot of the surviving weapons and ammo. Now the west and his puppet regime have to organise other means of transports, re-loading equipment, which is easy to surveil. Plus this needs ressources (trucks, fuel) that the enemy doesn´t have.

    The other reason was and is to let Nazis and EU-lovers out of the country.

    Regarding Kharkov: as experience shows, first liberate the Donbass, from there you can move onto Dnjepropetrovsk, Zaparoshye and cut Kharkov off from the rest.

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    Post  Hole Sat May 07, 2022 5:01 pm


    4. But this counteroffensive of the Armed Forces of Ukraine has a great psychological and political significance.
    5. The withdrawal of the Russian army after Kyiv, Sumy, Chernihiv also in the Kharkov region, creates the impression of a gradual transition of the Russian army from victories to defeats.
    6. It greatly increases the morale of the soldiers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine to fight. And this increases the ferocity of the fighting and makes the victory of the Russian army more expensive.
    7. This creates fear among the population of the regions liberated from the Kiev regime that the Bandera terror will return. And it generates hope among the anti-Russian part of the population that the Bandera regime will return. And this catastrophically reduces Russia's ability to depend on the population in the liberated areas.
    8. This demonstrates the potential weakness of the Russian army and pushes neutral countries such as Turkey, India, KSA, UAE, Brazil to make concessions to the US, Russia and other countries. UU. and the EU to join the sanctions against Russia. And this greatly worsens the situation in the economy.
    9. The captured settlements will be actively used for harsh anti-Russian propaganda in the style of fakes in Bucha.
    10. The shelling of the Belgorod region will be significantly increased.
    11. This can lead to panic in the frontline regions.»

    Straight out of the BS section.

    The leadership of the failed fake state is paid by the west and as long as they can move to Poland or Little Britain wil behave like the Black Knight in the Monty Python video. No arms. No legs. But ready to spit in your face.

    The morale of the foot soldier is down as shown by an ever growing number of videos from the frontlines and behind. Maybe some Nazi thugs believe their leadership and the Twitter warriors, but their morale will collapse as soon as they meet the russian artillery.

    "Depend on the population": as the last 8 years of suppression by Nazis has shown, at least 90% of the population will do nothing.

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    Post  Regular Sat May 07, 2022 5:57 pm

    Arrow wrote:
    https://twitter.com/200_zoka/status/1522623171500949505

    Not good.

    Very "good" news for those who supported Russians in Kherson and surrounding areas.
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    Post  flamming_python Sat May 07, 2022 6:20 pm

    Hole wrote:
    Dr.Snufflebug wrote:Seems like the massive Bayraktar wave on Snake island yesterday led to one inactive (exhausted) Tor unit destroyed and one small moored boat destroyed.

    Five or more Bayraktars were shot down in the process.

    These waves do echo the attacks on neighboring Russian regions as of late. Russia has to realize that UA treats million dollar UCAVs as expendable TikTok one-offs, and plan accordingly.






    In reality land this means that the leadership of this failed fake country realised that it lost the war, that´s why they use drones and other stuff for propaganda instead of at least trying to use them for real military purposes.

    Well the Bayraktar's still win out in the cost ratio to the Tor system

    Tors are pricey. They're also manned, while TB-2s are not.

    Regular wrote:
    Arrow wrote:
    https://twitter.com/200_zoka/status/1522623171500949505

    Not good.

    Very "good" news for those who supported Russians in Kherson and surrounding areas.

    Yeah I don't get this withdrawal at all.

    It's just going to screw over people in the Kharkov region, many of whom have actually supported Russia.
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    Post  sepheronx Sat May 07, 2022 6:24 pm

    Drones cost a lot more than a few million

    But tor is indeed very expensive. But I believe Ukies lost 2 su-24's which are not cheap.

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    Post  ult Sat May 07, 2022 6:42 pm

    Destruction of a ukrainian pontoon bridge near Izum, in the beginning of may. There were satellite photos of it a couple of days ago.

    https://t.me/razved_dozor/1163

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    Post  nero Sat May 07, 2022 6:46 pm

    No one really knows the goals and/or mission of the Russian forces in Ukraine. There has been a degree of speculation on this, though ultimately that is what it remains - speculation. For example, the vast majority of videos from Ukraine originate from FSVNG, DNR, and LNR units. We rarely see videos from SV, SpN, PVO, VDV, or VMF (unless they originate from RuMoD). This has created a 'fog of war' to outside observers (duh) and we are forced to heavily rely on Telegram/Twitter users to regurgitate information they themselves read someone (Only a few are primary sources of the information they provide).

    The lack of information on the objective and status of the conflict has caused a problem in many discussion forums. People started to invent their own justifications for what is happening. This, combined with a warped view of armed conflict in general (and especially the state of equipment, be it Western or Eastern), has led to some really wild speculations and finger-pointing among many people here (Couch-generals ahoy). For example, a user holding a strong belief that a particular type of equipment is invulnerable (wunderwaffe) is shocked to see it destroyed out in the field. Then, after the shock subsides he decides it is due to the 'incompetence' of the troops operating the equipment of the general staff of the army completely ignoring that, perhaps, his initial belief of invincibility was not correct.

    Before the war started, the VSU had the following equipment (approx. estimates): >1000 tanks (T-64's, T-72's, T-80's), >4000 APC/IFV (various models), >300 MLRS (BM-21's, BM-27's), ~100 SRBM's launchers (mostly Tochka), >500 SPG's (various), ~200 000 active military personnel, and >600 00 reserve military personnel. Compare that to other European countries (i.e. Germany, France, United Kingdom, Poland, Czech Republic) and you'll realize that before the war Ukraine was one of the bigger military powers in Central Europe. A lot of users here (unfortunately, myself included) did not understand this before the conflict started.

    The reason why the Russian Federation calls this a 'Special Military Operation' (SMO) is, in my opinion, because they do not consider this a war. They have not called up their reservists, that make up large chunks of their unit formations (Sidenote: In general, people do not realize how modern Russian Ground Forces are structured. Beyond specialized units, most require reservists to fill the rank and file). They have not announced general mobilization. Instead, they are using limited SV, SpN, VDV, VMF, and PVO forces and are making heavy use of FSVNG (mostly Chechens) and DNR/LNR forces to do the legwork. I believe this is evident based on the videos we receive from Ukraine.

    They have successfully pushed the conflict away from Russia and into Ukraine. From there they can escalate to whatever degree the military and political leadership of Russia deems sufficient (People tend to be complacent with w/e is happening, as long as the effect is not felt domestically)... and that is that. Of course, the SV, SpN, VDV, VMF, PVO, FSVNG are going to have losses in equipment and personnel. It's war (duh). However, personnel can be replaced, the equipment can be replenished by modernizing reserve stock or building additional units and doctrine can be changed to accommodate modern combat situations.

    To this day, nothing that would constitute a national tragedy has happened. Domestically the situation is calm and people are supporting the SMO. There were no land losses to the VSU. The current equipment losses are acceptable. Personnel losses (at least, according to RuMoD) are minimal (Sidenote: Let's be real, no one in Russia gives a rats ass that some Chechens or DNR/LNR guys die fighting as they haven't for the last 8-years of the conflict). The economy, despite heavy financial sanctions, is holding strong (some might argue they'll be better off once all of this is over). Their strategic partners haven't been dissuaded by the operation (namely India and China) and they're going to find new partners to sell their energy resources to.

    So what is the problem?

    Certain people (You know who you are) need to be more truthful with themselves and admit you know **** all about anything related to military or war. Leave it to the professionals out in the field and watch it all play out over a 3-6 month period. Won't need to make a lot of predictions then.


    Last edited by nero on Sat May 07, 2022 7:15 pm; edited 3 times in total

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    Post  Hinex1988 Sat May 07, 2022 6:51 pm

    MoD Russia, [5/7/2022 11:48 PM]
    🇷🇺🇺🇦Briefing by Russian Defence Ministry

    ▫The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue the special military operation in Ukraine.

    💥High-precision, long-range air-based and sea-based weapons at military airfields near Artsys, Odessa and Voznesensk have destroyed Ukrainian Air Force aviation equipment, including unmanned aerial vehicles, as well as air defence equipment.

    💥Iskander operational and tactical missile systems have destroyed large concentration of weapons and military equipment delivered from the USA and Western countries, as well as personnel of units of the 58th AFU Motorized Infantry Brigade near Krasnograd and Karlovka railway stations in Kharkov Region.

    💥High-precision air-based missiles of the Russian Aerospace Forces have hit 42 areas of concentration of Ukrainian manpower and military equipment near Volcheyarovka, Lugansk People's Republic, as well as 2 ammunition depots near Seversk, Donetsk People's Republic.

    ✈💥Operational-tactical and army aviation have hit 26 military assets of Ukraine during the day.

    ▫Among them: 2 command posts, 21 areas of manpower and military equipment concentration, 2 ammunition depots and 1 artillery battery at firing positions.

    ▫The attacks have resulted in the elimination of more than 210 nationalists and up to 39 armoured and motor vehicles.

    💥The following have been shot down in the air near Zmeinyi Island: 1 Ukrainian Su-24 bomber, 1 Su-27 fighter jet, 3 Mi-8 helicopters with paratroopers and 2 Bayraktar-TB2 UAV. The Ukrainian amphibious assault boat Stanislav has also been destroyed.

    💥Missile troops and artillery have hit 31 command posts and 245 strongholds of Ukrainian troops, areas of AFU manpower and military equipment concentration.

    📊In total, 154 aircraft and 115 helicopters, 764 unmanned aerial vehicles, 296 anti-aircraft missile systems, 2,902 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 333 multiple launch rocket systems, 1,378 field artillery and mortars, as well as 2,728 units of special military vehicles of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were destroyed during the operation.

    #MoD #Russia #Ukraine #Briefing
    @mod_russia_en

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    Post  Regular Sat May 07, 2022 6:51 pm

    sepheronx wrote:Drones cost a lot more than a few million

    But tor is indeed very expensive. But I believe Ukies lost 2 su-24's which are not cheap.

    Price doesn't matter for both sides. Russia produces Tor domestically. Ukrainians receive TB-2 as a gift. Su-24 can't be used anywhere else in the war.
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    Post  sepheronx Sat May 07, 2022 7:23 pm

    https://t.me/intelslava/28168

    🇷🇺🇺🇦⚡Fresh summary of Snake Island:

    In the area of ​​​​Snake Island, a Ukrainian Su-24 bomber, a Su-27 fighter, three Mi-8 helicopters with troops and two Bayraktar-TB2 unmanned aerial vehicles were shot down. The Ukrainian assault boat "Stanislav" was also destroyed.

    It looks like Kyiv decided to perform a mini-victory, but something went wrong.

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    Post  Isos Sat May 07, 2022 7:26 pm

    sepheronx wrote:Drones cost a lot more than a few million

    But tor is indeed very expensive. But I believe Ukies lost 2 su-24's which are not cheap.

    Russia still produces tors. Ukraine produces nothing anymore.

    Russians stuff is replacable while ukrainian isn't.

    The tor was hidding behind a building which suggests it was reloading. So it destroyed quite a lot of ukrainian aircraft.

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    Post  Regular Sat May 07, 2022 7:32 pm

    sepheronx wrote:https://t.me/intelslava/28168

    🇷🇺🇺🇦⚡Fresh summary of Snake Island:

    In the area of ​​​​Snake Island, a Ukrainian Su-24 bomber, a Su-27 fighter, three Mi-8 helicopters with troops and two Bayraktar-TB2 unmanned aerial vehicles were shot down.  The Ukrainian assault boat "Stanislav" was also destroyed.

    It looks like Kyiv decided to perform a mini-victory, but something went wrong.

    Sorry, is that from this morning? Ukrainians again sent drones this morning and they destroyed Russian Serna class landing ship and whatever was inside (Sa-15?)

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    Post  Sprut-B Sat May 07, 2022 7:38 pm

    The Dog is marking it's territory alright, it doesn't care if he has to pee on the Western taxpayers money.. 😜 Laughing

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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #15 - Page 10 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #15

    Post  psg Sat May 07, 2022 7:49 pm

    Isos wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:Drones cost a lot more than a few million

    But tor is indeed very expensive. But I believe Ukies lost 2 su-24's which are not cheap.

    Russia still produces tors. Ukraine produces nothing anymore.

    Russians stuff is replacable while ukrainian isn't.

    The tor was hidding behind a building which suggests it was reloading. So it destroyed quite a lot of ukrainian aircraft.

    Can the tor not have a mobile slave module with 32 or more ready to fire missiles, which goes where it does for a static defense operation/mission.

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    lyle6
    lyle6


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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #15 - Page 10 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #15

    Post  lyle6 Sat May 07, 2022 7:55 pm

    Isos wrote:

    The tor was hidding behind a building which suggests it was reloading. So it destroyed quite a lot of ukrainian aircraft.

    This is a bit of a recurring theme, unfortunately. Tor massacres drones and munitions all day long, runs out of interceptors, and the hunter turns into the hunted. They ought to do something about this vulnerable reload phase - maybe put up multispectral smoke screens? I imagine it would be a bitch and half to rearm the Tor under cover of opaque fog but at least you're not an easy target.

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